[david mark]

Took an employee on July 2014 he  had not worked in 4 year's so gave him a go, spent around 3 months training him  and set him up on one of my rounds with van set up for one man. As the months went on he worked hard no complaints until I stopped for lunch at local butty shop and the owner informed me that his local window cleaner was selling up his round due to health issues and had taken a deposit from the new guy who worke for me .He'd agreed the deal one month after his started working for me but would not be taking the round over until Dec 2015 .
I spoke to him about this  he said he  had put a deposit down but not able to raise full amount till Dec 2015 and that could I employ him till then which was 14 months away, so I agreed to do this .

Come Dec 2015 I got a call from 1 of my customers wanting to cancel I ask what the reason for this  well Nick is starting on his own so will no longer need your services. I ask Nick why he had done this he denied it but I had to sack him as the trust had gone between us. When collecting money he had stolen £370.
Come Jan 2016  I started getting cancellations most customers telling me they were now using Nick I  tryed calling him and texting him but no reply, he even carried on cleaning my customers houses saying he had taken over the round in total I lost £380 worth of monthly work  to this man.
I had no problem with him buying a round and starting  his own businesses but taking my customers some I'd had for over ten years really upset me
Has anybody put a contract stipulating that employees do not clean customers houses directly or 12 months  none compete clause

[AuRavelling79]

Sorry to hear your tribulations.

Yes I had a clause with Dan the Man saying that if he left my employment and wanted to clean windows then except by my written permission he couldn't do so within 100 metres of any work he did for me and the areas that I also did for myself for 6 months. I also wrote in that he could not approach any of my customers or could not take them on if they approached him for 12 months.

Is the theft provable? Maybe a threat to get the old bill involved might scare him off for a few months?

[Soupy]

When I was getting my contracts of employment written up I used Lili Hunter http://www.lilihunter.com/ who is a proper employment lawyer (not just an 'HR person' like most of 'em), she included a non-compete in the contract but said that it most cases they are not enforceable.

[SB Cleaning]

I'm glad my employee would have no chance of running his own round

[8weekly]

When I was getting my contracts of employment written up I used Lili Hunter http://www.lilihunter.com/ who is a proper employment lawyer (not just an 'HR person' like most of 'em), she included a non-compete in the contract but said that it most cases they are not enforceable.

I'm pretty sure that taking existing customers is enforceable, but trying to limit where someone works is not. But I'm not a lawyer. Otherwise I'd only be on £120 an hour. 

[Nick Day]

As soupy says, enforcing non-competition clauses is virtually impossible.
He is now a business man though and I personally would add up all he has cost me and send him an invoice with seven days to pay or you will take court action. Send him the papers if he doesn't pay, it will cost about £70.00.
Under the circumstances, theft etc. I am sure you would get some  sort of judgement.

[EandM]

It's a lousy situation but your chances of cost effective enforcement are 0%.

[Spruce]

You could requote all those old customers at 25% of the original clean, ie: £10.00 for £2.50. That will take your ex employee out of the market. Do them for 3 or 4 months and then dump the lot.

[Leeds]

You could requote all those old customers at 25% of the original clean, ie: £10.00 for £2.50. That will take your ex employee out of the market. Do them for 3 or 4 months and then dump the lot.

This.

[Stoots]

I would think the problem would arise in that you dont have a written contract with your customers therefore they are not technically your customers for him to pinch. Its all free will and there not much you can do. I would suspect if all your customers signed a contract then you could indeed enforce a no competition clause.

[dazmond]

Took an employee on July 2014 he  had not worked in 4 year's so gave him a go, spent around 3 months training him  and set him up on one of my rounds with van set up for one man. As the months went on he worked hard no complaints until I stopped for lunch at local butty shop and the owner informed me that his local window cleaner was selling up his round due to health issues and had taken a deposit from the new guy who worke for me .He'd agreed the deal one month after his started working for me but would not be taking the round over until Dec 2015 .
I spoke to him about this  he said he  had put a deposit down but not able to raise full amount till Dec 2015 and that could I employ him till then which was 14 months away, so I agreed to do this .

Come Dec 2015 I got a call from 1 of my customers wanting to cancel I ask what the reason for this  well Nick is starting on his own so will no longer need your services. I ask Nick why he had done this he denied it but I had to sack him as the trust had gone between us. When collecting money he had stolen £370.
Come Jan 2016  I started getting cancellations most customers telling me they were now using Nick I  tryed calling him and texting him but no reply, he even carried on cleaning my customers houses saying he had taken over the round in total I lost £380 worth of monthly work  to this man.
I had no problem with him buying a round and starting  his own businesses but taking my customers some I'd had for over ten years really upset me
Has anybody put a contract stipulating that employees do not clean customers houses directly or 12 months  none compete clause

...and this is why i dont employ anymore.....you cant trust anyone these days when it comes to money/customers etc

[8weekly]

Took an employee on July 2014 he  had not worked in 4 year's so gave him a go, spent around 3 months training him  and set him up on one of my rounds with van set up for one man. As the months went on he worked hard no complaints until I stopped for lunch at local butty shop and the owner informed me that his local window cleaner was selling up his round due to health issues and had taken a deposit from the new guy who worke for me .He'd agreed the deal one month after his started working for me but would not be taking the round over until Dec 2015 .
I spoke to him about this  he said he  had put a deposit down but not able to raise full amount till Dec 2015 and that could I employ him till then which was 14 months away, so I agreed to do this .

Come Dec 2015 I got a call from 1 of my customers wanting to cancel I ask what the reason for this  well Nick is starting on his own so will no longer need your services. I ask Nick why he had done this he denied it but I had to sack him as the trust had gone between us. When collecting money he had stolen £370.
Come Jan 2016  I started getting cancellations most customers telling me they were now using Nick I  tryed calling him and texting him but no reply, he even carried on cleaning my customers houses saying he had taken over the round in total I lost £380 worth of monthly work  to this man.
I had no problem with him buying a round and starting  his own businesses but taking my customers some I'd had for over ten years really upset me
Has anybody put a contract stipulating that employees do not clean customers houses directly or 12 months  none compete clause

...and this is why i dont employ anymore.....you cant trust anyone these days when it comes to money/customers etc

Yes you can and you as much as any one should know that.

[Smudger]

the vast majority of people are paye I've employed you get good and bad, but you also need a system and structure in place, theirs more to employing than dragging some muppet off the street and showing him how to clean

If your on the glass still never let the employee clean a round more than twice in a row that way customers still see you about and maybe stay loyal.

Darran

[Tony dunmall]

the vast majority of people are paye I've employed you get good and bad, but you also need a system and structure in place, theirs more to employing than dragging some muppet off the street and showing him how to clean

If your on the glass still never let the employee clean a round more than twice in a row that way customers still see you about and maybe stay loyal.

Hi Darren

I understand not building a rappor with staff and customer but eventually this will occur over time , even if you rotate staff through various rounds , especially if the employer is trying to take a back seat from the tools due to age and work related issues, or just wants to develop his or hers business to see where it can go

Do you think in your experience that  paying better than average on a PAYE is the. Way forward.?

My starting is £26500.00 plus pension I'm hoping this will encourage loyalty or will it just encourage someone to feel there's a big wage to be made from window cleaning, I'm still not sure your thoughts be helpful

Tony

Darran

[Smudger]

Tony,

I think you could pay some people 35k plus and they would still leave to do their own thing others will never leave even if it's minimum wage - it's whatever is in your nature.

Wages/salary should be what you think is fair and reasonable for the job skill and effort and the type of person you want balanced with keeping the company profitable

We are coastal, most work is seasonal and minimum wage - we are neither so are a level above a lot of employers around here, but no where near the oil industry boys

Alternating rounds was more for experience so anyone can do any round and not really so the guys don't bond with customers, however that is an unexpected bonus, it's not that they don't have good communication but a variety of staff kills off that he's my cleaner syndrome "ODDBODS " are my cleaners

Darran

[Tony dunmall]

Hi Darren

Thanks,appreciate your thoughts, got some things to think about when  next person come on board have good weekend

Tony

[Pete Thompson]

Non-compete clauses are un-enforcable, end-of.

It's not just that the practicalities of enforcement are too difficult, it's that they are also not upheld by courts.

The idea of someone not being able to work 100m from your customers is just ridiculous.  On what planet do you think you can tell someone where they can and cannot go?

And as for the "nicking" of customers, well unfortunately customers do not belong to anyone, they are not property and cannot be stolen.  If they simply decide to go with someone else, then that's entirely up to them.

[paul13]

First time on the forum for a long time and nice to see the same old stuff

I had this once when I was an employer  my uncle who Deliberately under cut me, it was extremely hard to take at the time especially as I had made the job for him because he had been payed off and he was family but now approaching 2 years as an  employee I see we all have to make our own way and find our self's in positions where you must look after
yourself, does that mean I could go out and undercut and back stab someone who has given me employment no,
but its not personal its just business.

Forget this guy and concentrate on your own business learn the lesson and move on If I was you in the future
with a good guy I would put him on a round and allow him to buy his way into that round yearly eventually leaving you a small
commission like a franchise except a partnership this could be done over say a five year period by which time its money for old rope.