[Sharpy]

Afternoon All,

Nice to meet you, great forums by the way.

I've spent quite some time over the past few days researching these forums, reading threads old and new to gain an insight into the world of the Window Cleaner. I have been researching and planning my career change.

My story, is that I currently hold down a secure fulltime office manager job, with a salary that supports my young family of 4. However, I'm a simple person and the more time I spend in that environment the more yearning I have to be answerable only to myself, and not have to worry about the concerns of employees, directors etc. In short, I want and need a change of career not only to enjoy the freedom of working alone but also for my sanity!

I’m a hard working and motivated person, and have helped a window cleaner in the past when I was 17 in the summer holidays. Granted, it was many years ago, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Many of my friends are also Window Cleaners and I have many a time envied their flexible working life and seemingly good income.

So I won’t bore you further. In short I want to start my own Window Cleaning round/business.

My reservations are as follows:

• I have a mortgage and all the commitments that come with it. I also support my family of 4 on the one salary. This concerns me, taking the leap and not earning what I need to earn. Is for example £100 per day gross turnover attainable for 5 days per week, consistently?

• Taking the leap (I have a plan for this, which I will list below) but has anyone taken a similar career change to me, and been brave enough to make the changes and succeed? I would love to hear your examples to reassure me it is achievable.

My short term plan is as follows:

• I work flexible hours in my current job. Meaning I can manoeuvre my week to give me 1 day off during the week. With this day, I plan to do the following:
• Weeks 1 – 4 – Spend 1 voluntary day per week with one of my Window Cleaning friends. Gaining experience and knowledge.
• Week 5 – Begin to purchase start-up equipment, continue to volunteer with friends gaining experience & knowledge using my own equipment. Potentially going off on my own if they are happy to let me.
• Weeks 6 – 8 – Working voluntarily for friends. Using my own equipment, but working alone if they allow it. Gaining experience working alone. Including collecting etc.
• Weeks 9 – 12 – Continue working alone, voluntarily with own equipment. Only for half a day. Spend the other half a day canvassing in different areas to build up my personal customers.

Long term plan:

• If my short term plan works, I will look into buying an existing round for 2 or 3 days per week to bolster the work I have hopefully canvassed myself.
• Enquire with my employer if they are happy for me to go part time.
• Work both jobs for a period, until enough domestic & commercial work is accrued in order for me to hand notice in.

There is no timescale on the long term plan. But I need to deal with this with much planning and care, as I have a family to think about. Going from having a guaranteed income each month, to going alone and having to make an almost immediate transition without affecting my income in any serious way is daunting.

Sorry for the waffle, but I’d love to draw on your experiences. What do you think to my decision? What do you think to my proposed short term & long term plans? What advice and tips do any of you have for a new starter in my situation?

Thanks for reading 

Sharpy

[Paul Coleman]

A few things I note:
You don't say which cleaning method to use.  Go for WFP from the outset is my suggestion but learn how to use traditional tools too.  Doing both (window cleaning and PAYE work) part time sounds good as it can take a while to build a solid customer base.  £100 a day turnover is selling yourself short.  Aim for double that on average.  You might not get there but £100 is too low.  Remember there are plenty of additional costs to being self employed - some of them hidden.  Maybe get a couple of Winters under your belt before ditching your job.

I didn't have to make the choices that are facing you.  I lived on my own with low outgoings.  The recession of the early 90s forced my hand as I was unable to get an interview never mind a job.  It didn't take long for my income to exceed benefits.  Also, I got lucky.  I stumbled into a one week a month driving job (self employed) working away.  It paid pretty well for those days so I built my round around it.  By the time the driving work went, I had half a round so just carried on.

Also, bear in mind that window cleaning income will probably be fully taxable while doing another job because you only get one tax free allowance.  If you are concerned about managing to put the money aside, you should be able to get your PAYE tax code altered to emergency tax (0 allowance).  This will mean your PAYE tax goes up and hopefully will minimise the self employed part of the tax bill.  Of course, you may not wish to do this due to cash flow.  Depends if you have any savings to dip into to start up.
VERY IMPORTANT:  Is your wife onside with this?  Starting one's own business is all very sweet and romantic but the hard truth is that she may have to help you budget much tighter in the first year or so.

GET AN ACCOUNTANT.

An accountant can be had for maybe £250 a year if affairs are fairly straightforward.  The fee is tax deductible.

Sorry if I've stated the obvious but you did ask  

[Sharpy]

Thanks for the reply Paul, much appreciated.

As regards cleaning method, the 4 friends I have that clean, 3 out of the 4 use a WFP system. They also all tell me been able to use both methods is vital, as you say. So Initially i would use traditional tools, as I don't have the capital to setup with a WFP system. I presume a van etc is needed?

Although, you're the one with the experience, not me. I'm pretty much clueless on pricing at the moment, but £200 turnover in the North East of England seems high? £4000 per month gross turnover far exceeds my current earnings and is way more than I need to live on. In terms of additional costs, what more is there apart from equipment, fuel & leaflets/marketing etc?

Good point on the taxable second income. Didn't think of that, so I'll have to factor that into my plans. I will have a small pool of money of a few thousand to start with, I would have to think about how to use this wisely. Invest in a van and WFP system maybe?

Good point on the wife too, although she does know and is supportive. We've discussed it as a family and she's happy if I'm happy. I just need to make it work!

Is an accountant a necessity? I'm not too bad with figures, and all of my cleaning friends do their own book keeping and are all legit I might add 

One also mentioned I can go into partnership with my wife, get her to do books, wash cloths etc. Benefit been we then get 2 lots of tax free income allowances (roughly 2 x £8k) meaning first £16k turnover will not be taxable? Has anyone done or heard of this, seems logical and legitimate?

Thanks again 

[Roy Cauldery]

Hi Sharpy
Good words from Paul,read and digest.
If you have a small pool of money, defo think that looking at a small van with wfp would be the way forward.There are some popping up all the time either on here or flea bay.BUT, factor in why they are for sale?Did the owners dream of having their own window cleaning business?

If you go ahead,you must be prepared to canvass,canvass and canvass again.Your round will quickly fill up but like most on here,you will probably take anything when your starting out so be prepared for the messrs and 'not this time brigade'.It can takes ages to weed out the dross and get a sustainable customer base

Good luck with it all.
And yeah-beats an office job any day of the week!!

Regards
Roy

[Paul Coleman]

Thanks for the reply Paul, much appreciated.

As regards cleaning method, the 4 friends I have that clean, 3 out of the 4 use a WFP system. They also all tell me been able to use both methods is vital, as you say. So Initially i would use traditional tools, as I don't have the capital to setup with a WFP system. I presume a van etc is needed?

Although, you're the one with the experience, not me. I'm pretty much clueless on pricing at the moment, but £200 turnover in the North East of England seems high? £4000 per month gross turnover far exceeds my current earnings and is way more than I need to live on. In terms of additional costs, what more is there apart from equipment, fuel & leaflets/marketing etc?

Good point on the taxable second income. Didn't think of that, so I'll have to factor that into my plans. I will have a small pool of money of a few thousand to start with, I would have to think about how to use this wisely. Invest in a van and WFP system maybe?

Good point on the wife too, although she does know and is supportive. We've discussed it as a family and she's happy if I'm happy. I just need to make it work!

Is an accountant a necessity? I'm not too bad with figures, and all of my cleaning friends do their own book keeping and are all legit I might add 

One also mentioned I can go into partnership with my wife, get her to do books, wash cloths etc. Benefit been we then get 2 lots of tax free income allowances (roughly 2 x £8k) meaning first £16k turnover will not be taxable? Has anyone done or heard of this, seems logical and legitimate?

Thanks again 

Ok then.  You've supplied a bit more detail now.
Firstly, working in the north east and using traditional methods may well mean that £100 a day is a lot nearer than £200 a day.  Earnings for window cleaners tend to be lower in the frozen north   - though house prices (and mortgage costs) tend to be lower too.  Although many things are similarly priced throughout the country, I did notice that it is possible to live more cheaply in the north east (e.g. getting my self a no. 1 hair cut was £3 and would have been £6 or £7 in my area).  I'm in the south east BTW.  My basic 2 bed flat would be valued higher than a 3 bed house in the north east in many instances - with the mortgage to go with it.
I don't know how well WFP has caught on for domestics in the north east but I do recall that such things can take a bit longer to catch on up there.  I have chatted with a few window cleaners up there as I visit Shildon (Co. Durham) sometimes to visit my sister and nephew.  I was a bit nervous having a sign written W/C van up there as I've heard they get a bit more territorial than down here.  I just wanted to make it clear that I was no threat to their business as I was on holiday (whilst subtly making it clear that no tools were in the back   ).  I appeared to be getting the evil eye but the guys were fine once they realised I wasn't after their work.  I also noted that the pricing was generally much lower than down here.

As for the double tax allowance, I'm afraid that's outside my area as I'm single.

I started without an accountant myself but within a few months, I was getting letters that I didn't understand.  I'm no fool when it comes to general maths etc. either but I decided to bite the bullet and get one.  Most will happily take a deposit until they produce the first accounts if cash flow is a concern.
If you can afford it, I would definitely go for a van and a WFP system.  The biggest you can afford (up to 3.49 tonnes) - even if you have to borrow money to help (the interest is tax deductible).  However, a much lighter one would do if you intend to stick with domestics/light commercial jobs.  My suggestion is a 500 litre tank as a bare minimum if working alone.  Most days you won't need 500 litres but as you get larger jobs in, you could easily use all that in a day.  I have a 750 litre carrying capacity.  Sometimes, not very often, I do need it too.
You may be lucky up there if you have a soft water supply.  You might get away with DI (deionisation) only.

[richardlingard]

hey, where abouts in the north east are you ?

[richardlingard]

and i work in the north east and wouldngt get out of bed for 100 a day

[Spruce]

and i work in the north east and wouldngt get out of bed for 100 a day

We live in Teesside near Redcar and I can tell you that we find it difficult to get £8.00 for a 3 bed semi (£7.00 is about the limit). There are still bands of trad guys doing 3 bed semi's for a fiver to compete with who do a slap dash job which the majority of customer will always seem to put up with.

While £7.00 sounds OK if you can do 3 an hour, compact work takes a long time to get when first starting out. An established round tends to generate its own growth once you have a established a good reputation. £100 a day for a starter is dream money IMHO.

Another thing is that there aren't many rounds for sale.

Sharpy will probably get some help from his window cleaner mates who will pass him some of their least choice work, so it will be a long hard slog. You aren't going to have an easy life for many years to start with. Also found it was good to do late evening cleans in the summer as that attracted interest from customers who work all day and never see a window cleaner.

Most new cleaners get attracted to the rates per hour we can work, but forget the days like today where you can't work because of the weather.

My son started this whole window cleaning business when he was given some work he could do on a Saturday (he had a full time job). He didn't have the drive to work the Saturday most weeks, and the weather always became an excuse. You have to be committed. Its like buying a house that needs renovation, moving in and then renovating 1 room at a time. It can be done, but will take a great amount of effort from the whole family.

Spruce

[alank]

Where you at in north east? sharpy i started same as you 9 years ago its not easy but worth it.

[rosskesava]

I think buy a ladder, mop, squeegee, a few cloths etc, print off a few leaflets, deliver them locally and just give it a go to see what it's like cleaning trad to begin with during weekends.

If not, just do your own windows, your neighbours, friends, etc.

I don't think a 'business plan' type approach will really work but maybe it's good to have some type of a plan.

Just get some cleaning stuff and give it a go and take it from there.

Also, there's a lot of incredibly good advice on this forum but along with that, there's a lot of BS.

[Scrimmer73]

Sharpy , if you have a few grand to go at it , pressure washing ,,do drive ways , for a grand your involved , another £500 for a battered old van,  Go Cheap Cheap Cheap ,  on the patio , on the condition you have there business as a regular Clean each month ,,
 In the mean time traditional the windows , what £150 , for what you need to Make a raise.
Be friendly bend over backwards , always smile and away you go ,,

If you start now during the summer , you could have to strings to your bow , before October , and hopefully a good reputation ,,,

Winter is`nt good though ,, as stated in previous comments; Work your weekends untill your confident you have enough income before you give up your day job .

Its lonely at times , but rewarding with the different characters you meet on your way , some will become firm freinds.

, I`m not telling you what to do , merely offering you an opinion , its probably the way i would do it, if I had your Family situation ,,


Good Luck your making a brave move, Do It make yourself happy, I laugh a Mugs in suits , who think they are 6 rungs higher than me on lifes ladder sat at their desks ......

I have my Freedom , I`m not awnserable to a MUG Manager , Fresh Air   , and i`m flexible too ,,

I do what i want to do , when i want to do it ....

audere est facere < google it   COYS

Like i said Sharpy , its an opinon

[Window Washers]

I think buy a ladder, mop, squeegee, a few cloths etc, print off a few leaflets, deliver them locally and just give it a go to see what it's like cleaning trad to begin with during weekends.

If not, just do your own windows, your neighbours, friends, etc.

I don't think a 'business plan' type approach will really work but maybe it's good to have some type of a plan.

Just get some cleaning stuff and give it a go and take it from there.

Also, there's a lot of incredibly good advice on this forum but along with that, there's a lot of BS.

this is very good advice, although I would get wfp backpack to start without the ladders.
Business plans and doing this job full time is two different things, it may look easy trust me it is not for the faint hearted, if you have never run a business before your going to get a cold hard shock only a certain type of person can be self employed/run a business the only way is to try it, and I wish you luck I am not being nagative just honest, what ever you do don't look at it from rose tinted glasses because others can do it does not mean everyone can.

There is a lot of good advice on here from new and older members, but there is also people, way of the mark!  Due diligence without a doubt is needed.

[bobby p]

are you slim or fat? if fat you will be in for a big wake up call once you start on the ladders. but it will get you fit of that theres no doubt

 in this game it pays to  " not to over think the think,but DO overdo the do "


  crack on without delay , catch the summer trade

[Banbury Window Cleaning]

I was in exactly the same situ mate!!
Originaly sold my window cleaning buisness a few years back and went to work in a normal 9-5 job as a manager who ahad a director on my arse every day!! Yeah the money was great but I hated it and wanted to start on the windows again!!
my aim was only £100 per day and i live in oxfordshire so though it would be well easy again to build it up|!!
I got lucky and was given loads of work but first few months were a massive struggle!! rent was late bills didnt get paid etc etc had the misses moaning every day!! I still am not full yet i am abt 50% full and thats with a few of my friends and family helping me canvass every night!!
Its no walk in the park like some may think but do a good job and dont under quote and in time you start to reap the benefits!!
get yourself some basic tools ladder squeegee etc and start to build it slowly canvass like mad and work late and in a few months time you will be fine!!
This business can be as big as you want it to be with hardwork and the right attitude.
Good luck

[Ian101]

 in this game it pays to  " not to over think the think but DO overdo the do "

one of the very best pieces of advice Ive ever seen on here !

[thermoclean]

If you can buy work do it some on here are dead set against it but if it's good quality
Work it will be the best purchase you ever make also remember buy cheap buy twice
So get good quality wfp equipment to start out it  will make you work quicker and lose less time to repairs.
There is no straight answer to the eternal question "how much can you earn in a day"

[Spruce]

Sharpy's in Hull

[Sharpy]

Thanks for all the advice gents. To those that asked, I'm in Hull, East Yorkshire.

I'm nervous about kicking things off, as I say I work fulltime so I need to think of how to best approach this.

I'm working voluntarily for 1 day with a friend this week, so we'll see how that goes.

[supernova77]

When I started (7 years ago) I left an IT contracting role with about 2 months money behind me... I canvassed, canvassed, canvassed, canvassed, canvassed, canvassed, canvassed, canvassed, canvassed,

and then canvassed some more...

I would say it took about 4 to 5 months to start bringing in enough regular money to pay the bills on time - it was a hard slog.

I wouldn't want to go through it again - but I'm glad I took the plunge.

I would also say that it took about 3 years to build a good quality round with "reliable customers".

I'm in the South East of England, and I started in "boom" time... I would think long and hard about starting in the North in a recession... I'm not saying don't do it, but just tread careful.

Andy