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simon w

  • Posts: 1714
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2011, 08:07:44 am »
So the heater was fitted today....I'll post how I get on.

Andrew Bramley was spot on and I asked with reference to battery life. He explained the process and need to charge both batteries (linked) regularly. I bought a charger from him whilst there. So all I'll do is connect the charge via the mains each time I fill up and connect the booster pump.

Steve


Yeah Steve let us know how you get on, hopefully we'll have a snow frost free winter this year  :) guess you'll be using heated water regardless of the temperature just so you can test out and play with your new toy  ;)

What temp have you got your frost protection setting to come on at? originally mine was about 4 deg but I have lowered it to 0 deg now as the anti freeze in the system is a -20 deg mixture and it dont get that cold down here  :)

Pure Glass

  • Posts: 384
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2011, 07:43:59 pm »
What a piece of kit!! Used it for the last 2 days-awesome.

Saved me water, but definatley brings up seals and frames up much cleaner

Simon-my frost setting is set at 2 degrees, as when the temperatures dropping, I wan tit to kick in before it gets to 0 degrees.

Cost me a lot of my hard earned, but the investment has been made, ready for a big big spring push on conny roofs and soffit/fascia jobs

Once again, the boys at PF were superb and really helpful.

Steve

dazmond

  • Posts: 24453
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2011, 09:13:21 am »
How can it possibly bring up frames any cleaner with warm water?frames and windows always gleaming with cold! ;D.

They do look good the pure freedom heaters though! ;D ;D
price higher/work harder!

Dave66

  • Posts: 374
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2011, 06:20:24 pm »
its true they get the green algi off and ground in grime  8)
plenty of cream...plenty of sugar!

Steve CM

Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2011, 06:24:14 pm »
its true they get the green algi off and ground in grime  8)

with ease i'd like to add  :)

Pope vader

  • Posts: 1944
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2011, 06:28:16 pm »
its like when you wash dishes in hot water  compared to cold

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 4111
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2011, 09:45:12 am »
do it mate, had ours 15month...works well, it did cost an extra 3k on top of our van mount but soooooo worth it..

it uses about a fiver a day in diesel if its on all day, but you can re-circle the water round back into the tank so just a few hours on in the morn heats the 500lt tank up and thats prob only £2-3  8)

we use all yr round as the brush just glides on the glass so much better when hot and makes the job easier so that cant be a bad thing   ;)
I tried this method this week,problem I have is when using both the pumps at the same time the temperature is dropping,started off at 60 degrees and dropped to below 30,any ideas???

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 4111
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2011, 11:27:29 am »
do it mate, had ours 15month...works well, it did cost an extra 3k on top of our van mount but soooooo worth it..

it uses about a fiver a day in diesel if its on all day, but you can re-circle the water round back into the tank so just a few hours on in the morn heats the 500lt tank up and thats prob only £2-3  8)

we use all yr round as the brush just glides on the glass so much better when hot and makes the job easier so that cant be a bad thing   ;)
I tried this method this week,problem I have is when using both the pumps at the same time the temperature is dropping,started off at 60 degrees and dropped to below 30,any ideas???
Cancel that,just left it running for a while and temp started picking up again,filled my 650 litre tank about half full and the temp of the water inside the tank is 30 degrees after circling for nearly 2 hours.

trevor perry

  • Posts: 2454
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2011, 11:41:48 am »
just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.
better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove any doubt

niceandclean

  • Posts: 1897
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2011, 12:22:42 pm »
just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.

I have a blower added to mine, blows hot air into the back of the van, and also have a pipe through the bulkhead into cab.

simon w

  • Posts: 1714
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2011, 12:24:51 pm »
Yes it's still important to remove hose reels poles etc and put them somewhere above freezing like a garage etc and then make sure all your pipe work in the van is lagged as best as possible, also best to lagg Di vessels and use an electric green house heater or similar for over night, weekend etc.

I have the PF 9KW heater and the frost stat only really protects the heater on my system as the pumps draw the cold water out of the tank and through the Di vessels it then passes through the heater and the hot water is returned to the tank, because the tank holds 650 L of cold water I have never found that the returned water is hot enough to make much difference to the water temperature in the tank.

Also worth remembering that the frost stat kicking in during the night will put quite a drain on your batteries if your planning on working the next day with the heater you will need to make sure those batteries are fully charged up.

With an anti freeze mix of -20 deg in the PF heater I shouldn't think that there is much to worry about with regards to frost damage to the heat exchanger, but I guess this depends on which part of the UK you live and how cold each winter becomes.

Well done for pointing this out though Trevor

 :)

simon w

  • Posts: 1714
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2011, 12:29:31 pm »
just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.

I have a blower added to mine, blows hot air into the back of the van, and also have a pipe through the bulkhead into cab.

guess you keep the batteries on trickle charge whilst your vans parked up then?

niceandclean

  • Posts: 1897
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2011, 03:03:14 pm »
Yes, have an auto charger, but always bench charge them every 3 days. Have a spare set that i swop over when the others are taken out.

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2011, 09:22:19 am »
Yes it's still important to remove hose reels poles etc and put them somewhere above freezing like a garage etc and then make sure all your pipe work in the van is lagged as best as possible, also best to lagg Di vessels and use an electric green house heater or similar for over night, weekend etc.

I have the PF 9KW heater and the frost stat only really protects the heater on my system as the pumps draw the cold water out of the tank and through the Di vessels it then passes through the heater and the hot water is returned to the tank, because the tank holds 650 L of cold water I have never found that the returned water is hot enough to make much difference to the water temperature in the tank.

Also worth remembering that the frost stat kicking in during the night will put quite a drain on your batteries if your planning on working the next day with the heater you will need to make sure those batteries are fully charged up.

With an anti freeze mix of -20 deg in the PF heater I shouldn't think that there is much to worry about with regards to frost damage to the heat exchanger, but I guess this depends on which part of the UK you live and how cold each winter becomes.

Well done for pointing this out though Trevor

 :)
Hi Simon

Good point re the battery use. It is not an exact science as to how much power the Frost stat will use. Please see a detailed answer below I hope it helps.


Firstly it is worth saying we are not experts on how the Webasto works as what we do with the control is provide a way to switch it on and off together with monitoring the temperature. So I am going to break down the advice as we can be pretty sure about how the pump and control will behave in most circumstances.

Please be aware there are some factors beyond our control which may effect individual systems differently to others for example. The ambient temperature of the air/water the quality of insulation/lagging also the efficiency of the pump and current water temperature will effect the draw the Webasto takes.

 When the control is switched off at the end of the day the display goes blank and the control enters a sleep mode. This is because the processor is still operating and running occasional tests to check for operation. In sleep mode the control is drawing 50 milliamps or less.
In normal operation even running flat out the pump would draw between 3 - 5 amps. During frost protect mode the pump is turning at a minimum level perhaps 5 - 10 psi and would draw about 0.5 amps. creating a flow means the water has to be heated less and reduces the chance of freezing through the rest of the system other than the tank.
So during the frost protect cycle current is less than 1 amp

Now the Webasto is a bit more difficult for us to predict so I have sourced some information on the Thermo 90 S heater  looking at points 3.1 Technical data. The data says while running on boost, so the heater is producing hot water for cleaning the draw is up to 7.5amps. Once heated the Webasto will draw between 3 and 6.9 amps to maintain operation.

It is worth pointing out we are only taking the water Temperature up to approx 4C and generating a water flow for a maximum of 13 minutes. This means the Webasto is likely to draw between 5 and 7 amps on start up this draw is for a couple of seconds then current draw will fall back nearer to the 3 amp range. So In practice the high draw may occur during initial start up of the Pump and Webasto but quickly fall.
Initial current draw might reach 8amps from the battery for a very short period then fall back to 3.5amp or less dependant on the factors mentioned above.

The pre set timing cycle in frost protect is based on the experience of a number of cleaners and speaking to some of the other WFP suppliers it was felt that less would not warm the water sufficiently, longer would be over kill and heat the water more than was needed. It is a difficult balance to strike heat the water to little and you have the webasto constantly powering up. To high and the principle of hot water freezing quicker than cold applies.


I am always happy to provide information on our Controls

Cheers

Ian
V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Pure Freedom diesel heater users
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2011, 09:25:16 am »
just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.

Trevor You are right the frost stat will only provide protection where there is a water flow, so fitting a return through your RO would be one answer. I have provided a detailed answer to Simons question regard to battery use over night while the frost stat is running.

Cheers

Ian
V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology