[Steve Weatherley]

Ollie

Thats a good question. Ashbys suggest that you should give the carpet a VERY light mist of SUPREME FINISH spray after rinsing with an alkaline rinse. The purpose of this is to neutralise the alkalinity. It also means you dont have to go over the whole area again with an acid rinse.
When I use m/s which is about 75% of the time I just use plain water as the rinse so there's no worries regarding the PH scale. On the other 25% of cleans I use the Ashbys method and have never experienced any problems.

[Eddie Conroy]

Hi all,
Just a few notes on the topic. 'Fundamentals of Carpet' Maintenance was first published 1982 and revised in 1995 although it would appear the revisions are illustrations and typesetting..
In the first chapter Dr Brown discusses 'Real Soiling ' and 'Apparent Soiling' (Stain blocking , Light reflection etc) to some degree  but doesn't link this up completely with his chapter where he discusses the 'propensity of resoiling' although he offers another academics conclusion that the compounds used in his study dried to a white or colourless residue and the improvement in appearance was due to improvement of light scattering properties and its action as a blocking mechanism.
Whilst I am sure the research is valid the work uses core research from as early as 1929 and admits that some (not all) of his and his colleagues work is now of dubious significance due to the advancement of materials.
He does however suggest various ways that interested carpet cleaners can make their own tests in this book as well as another work 'An Introduction To Carpet Cleaning'
Regards
Eddie

[springgleam]

the real answer is no it does not matter :

[ollie]

Steve,
Thanks very much for your reply.
I was under the impression that you had to rinse all remenants of the alkaline detergent ? Does misting with an acid rinse have the same  effect?
Thanks again
Ollie

[HolmansUKLTD]

i too expierence no resoiling with just a fresh water rinse even with a little deo i still have no resoiling. are the people who are getting resoiling not vaccing properely in the first place?

And Nick stop having a go at old Doug hes only been on here since last May

[Graeme@Access]

Hi Doug,

I take it you were using MS then water rinse and found that resoiling was occuring a little faster than expected?

Or is it generally that if you rinse with fresh water (having used an alkaline cleaning chemical) ?

I have a theory for both of these, but i dunno which one to bore you with 

Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Graeme,

Yes MS and fresh water rinse on a light coloured HSL.

I have also been fresh water rinsing after detergent presprays but have not been back yet to notice any accelerated soiling.

I would be interested in both your theories as resoling is one of the grey areas of CC,  with many claims but hardly any independent testing.

Cheers,

Doug

[Graeme@Access]

Hi Doug,

To be totally honest, i have no idea what a HSL is  , but here is my theory.

Water is not wet enough to extract the chemicals you have presprayed.  By this i mean that the surface tension of water is to great to get into the correct areas and solublise the prespray chemicals. 

It is well known that water has very bad wetting properties, hence the use of surfactants.  The chemical prespray will be water based reagent with a high concentration of surfactants.  As a direct result of this, it will penetrate into areas unrechable to water alone.

Imagine this situation, a small hole is treated with prespray.  The solution can penetrate the hole as it has a low surface tension (high concentration of surfactants).  You let this sit for a while then add lots of water.  Your relying on the water to pickup enough of the surfactant to allow it to penetrate to the same degree as the prespray.  This seems unlikely as the volumes of water to prespray are so different.  Hence, i would expect the water to sit ontop of the hole and leave a significant amount of the prespray behind inside the hole.

By leaving a significant amount of chemical on the fibre the soil is then attracted by the established mechanisms.  It seems generally accepted that leaving alkaline chemicals on the fibre attract soil.

My theory with MS needs more thought before i can post it here.  However, what is posted above will apply to them also.  This is just what i think, i have no proof of this but it seems to fit.  So please dont take my word for it or randomly flame me, as its only a thoery after all.

Hope this helps

Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions

[Doug Holloway]

Graeme,

HSL is just plain old hall, stairs and landing.

Your theory is certainly plausible and would fit in with Pileprofiles comment that hard water resoils faster.

The hard water will not mix with the detergent as well as the soft water and will therefore leave more in the carpet.

The South East is a particularly hard water area.

Cheers,

Doug

[Graeme@Access]

Hi,

I will check to see what influence salts have on the surface tension of water.  I think it might increase it, but not sure atm.

The salts in the water could possibley react (ion exchange reaction) with the anionic detergent component of the prespray.  These salt species may not crystalise readily or be sufficiently hygroscopic to remain in the liquid state.  >> form an oily residue and attract soil.

In carboxylic soaps divalent metals (Magnesium²⁺ or Calcium²⁺) attract two carboxylate species to form an insoluble adduct.  This was the scum that formed when using soaps in hard water.   Detergents dont form insoluble residues with Mg or Ca, but the chemistry still occurs.  Im sure this will effect the crystalising properties of the detergent, but i dont know how much.
Fact is they are designed to avoid precipitation in hard water, but i would be interested to see what effect is has on crystalisation.

Do an experiment, evapourate a solution of hard water and cleaning chemical at useable concentration.  See if it leaves a powder or a residue.

Cheers

Graeme
ACS

[Graeme@Access]

Hi again,

Hard water has a higher surface tension >> lower wetting than soft water.

"Kosmotropic cations and anions prefer to be fully hydrated in the bulk liquid water and so increase the surface tension ... at all concentrations."

from: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan.html

Mg2+, Ca2+ are kosmotropic cations, which means that they make the solution more ordered.

This fits with the theory that water (hard more so than soft) is not sufficiently wetting to be used as a rinse agent by iteself.

Cheers
Graeme
ACS

[Doug Holloway]

Graeme,

Thanks for the link, I always found water chemistry one of the most interesting topics.

One thing that struck me is how the surface tension is reduced as the temperature increases , which links in nicely with the topic on better cleaning at higher temps.

So if we are going to plain water rinse , higher temp is better.

Cheers,

Doug

[Allergeze.com]

LOL!!

Is this a crack at Microsplitters?? I've been away from forums for a while so just read though a few posts, good to see little has changed!!

In short I would say Yes if I prespayed with a detergent and used a fresh water rinse I would expect rapid resoiling.

But If I presprayed with a splitter, agitated to aid the wetting of the fibres and extracted with water then No there would be no rapid resoiling!!

I've carried out tests on the In laws carpets and they still look great over a year since cleaning, as apposed to detergent cleaning which although I wouldnt call it rapid, they did resoil.

Paul