[Mike Halliday]

anyone dare admit they actually clean with detergents, I mean they have a detergent in the tank at full strength ( not the  wimpy 3000-1 liquid F90 Shaun uses )

does it really cause re-soiling or have detrimental effects to the carpet.

if we use Prochem as an example, they have spent millions on product development would they really sell a detergent that has these problems?.

I did a carpet yesterday (under strange circumstances, I won't go into detail) went straight in with the wand  and started cleaning, no vaccing or pre-spray just blasted it with hot detergent it came up as wells if I'd done the full works, a through lounge it  took me 35mins from set up to pack away.


Mike

[David_Annable]

Hi

I can only think of one product that caused resoiling, so i stopped using it.

Dave

[lands]

A good post. Can we expand it to include optical brightners?

Pete

[Straker Cleaning]

Detergents through the water system causes pollution anyway........... even if i freshwater rinse a carpet, 90% of the time, i am pulling out puddles of Vanish, 1001, M Muscle and the like........my waste is then full of detergents.

Most detergent residue is concentrated in patches and thick enough to cause resoiling problems ...........any residue will cause it to a point but the patches are always visible instantly. Cleaned a 1 year old carpet on thursday, i had to hunt through van for any defoamer as it was frothy when i agitated.......... ended up prespraying with defoamer before i cleaned......not risking my vacs for anyone.

Nearest product i use, is Alltec Ultimate Master ...........one or two communal areas that i do and are trashed each time........ costs and time dictate this approach, yet it is still one of the 'Healthy Home' range.

[trevor perry]

alltech ultimate master is a good product it is self neutralising and also has a defoamer in aswell i use it a lot.

[David Ware]

Good question Mike. Use detergent rince 95% of the time, no resoiling problems. Tried non detergent products, but never felt they were offering anything better,so why change. Over wetting and poor machines could cause problems. Use a truckmount and get more recovery
David Ware

[carpet guy]

REALITY is much better than IDEALISM and a lot more profitable.  A good honest post from an honest man !

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Mike it's 2000-1 but hey who's counting

It'd only be a one off to just HWE a carpet for me but you did say it was a special case, a local friendly cleaner I know very well does just HWE with a Puzzi 100 with formula 90 it just gets a sprinkling but then he buffs the carpet with a red pad, what comes out in the tank is very little but then the buffing takes out the spots and stains which may be left, he gets a good response out of his clean and for the money he charges £49 for 2 rooms all done in under 1 hour!

Shaun

[Mike Halliday]

I heard a lot of argument against using a detergent rinse, re soiling is often mentioned, and another is;

  "doing it once might be OK but the detergent will build up in the carpet during subsequent cleans and you may have a problem when you clean it again 2 or 3 cleans in the future"

so does detergent build up in a carpet with carpet cleaning? I would think not because the detergent I leave in the carpet on the first clean I will remove while cleaning on the second clean, etc..etc..etc over the subsequent cleaning

another one is each time you clean with detergents you loosen the dyes so on subsequent cleans the colour may run,

 I don't know how true this is but as we all colour test before cleaning this shouldn't be a problem .


Pete I don't think any detergents still contain O/B but we could have a whole new discussion on them.

I started this topic because I'd spoken to 3 carpet cleaners this week who use detergents and they almost whispered as they told me, they felt guilty. but why.

I'm no 'so called Professional' who would give any newbie bad advise but I think this needs to be discussed, if only to proof that it is wrong to rely on detergents to do the work.

Mike

[David_Annable]

Hi

In the past i have cleaned the same carpet,

once with  Microsplitter, agitate & mild detergant rinse

then 6 month later Microsplitter, agitate & fresh water rinse

six months later the carpet had stayed cleaner.

Dave

PS In my opinion the fresh water rinsed carpet didn't look as good as the detergent rinsed one.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Mike

This really is a big subject but a few observations.

1. Prochem may have spent a lot but Unilever and Proctor and Gamble will have spent many millions.

2. We clean our clothes and dishes with detergents.

3. Resoiling has never been proved either way.

4.Colloids and detergents are both surfactants and are both biodegradeable.

5.I have never seen any evidence of detergent build up, we should not confuse a proffessioanl clean with masses of 1001.

I would certainly advocate the use of detergents to get a really thorough clean on a dirty carpet. It is also possible to achieve this using STPP (MS) but more agitation may be required.

Cheers

Doug

P.S Did you know detergent is derived from the latin word Tergere,  which means to clean.

[Mike Osbourne]

Slightly off topic had a guy while back.

Using  Ultrapac renovate and put the sprayer down and he says boy that stuff works well. Then picked up the bottle, sprayed some in his hand and  almost snorts the stuff. Then goes are yes sufficants! I was horrified.

He later told me he was an ex explosives chemist who had retired on health grounds! :

[Ken Wainwright]

I have always felt that, used correctly, modern detergents don't promote resoiling.

IMO, the problem is where an inappropriate detergent is used, and/or more importantly where the concentrate is not measured as per manufacturers instructions. A "glug from the jug" is just not good enough. Measuring is everything.

The main cleaning (or sjould I say rinsing) ingredient is the water. The detergent is an additive, and can be very lean.

When correctly cleaned, most of the work is done by the pre-spray, which is much more concentrated than the rinse, is agitated to accelerate the penetration and to loosen some of the soil and then left for some considerable time to do it's work.  Typically, these products are not free rinsing, so a detergent rinse is required to assist their removal.  As discussed, these detergent rinses can be very lean, are in the carpet for a second or less and perhaps as much of 90% of it can be removed with good equipment and technique.

Follow the manufacturers instructions, work to high standards and resoiling wont be a problem.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Chris R]

I did a carpet yesterday (under strange circumstances, I won't go into detail) went straight in with the wand  and started cleaning, no vaccing or pre-spray just blasted it with hot detergent it came up as wells if I'd done the full works, a through lounge it  took me 35mins from set up to pack away.
Mike

I use a detergent rinse on most carpets ( not suites). The great thing with having a chem mix numpty on the truck mount is that i can turn it up or down, thus increasing the strength of the detergent mix, depending on the type of carpet and level of soiling.

I have seen no problems with re-soiling.

But,,,,,,,, i did have a bad experience once when all i did was clean a carpet with a detergent rinse, no pre- spray or agitation.

It was a nursing home ( lounge ) carpet that i cleaned on a regular ( once a month) basis.
In the past i had always pre-sprayed with a micro-splitter, agitated, then rinsed with a detergent rinse.

On one occasion, feeling a bit lazy, i tried just a detergent rinse, nothing else.

It cleaned up great, BUT the next day the nursing home phoned to complain that the carpet was not very clean this time. I went to have a look and it was a pretty poor sight.

I had to re-clean in the proper way and all was well after that.

So my conclusion is that by doing just a detergent rinse, with no other prep, you will get the appearance of a clean carpet, but, on drying out, the results may not be up to the required standard.

regards

Chris

[Neil Williams]

I'm torn on which may to answer this subject.
I can't believe that modern day carpet cleaning detergents would be manufactured so that they caused easy resoiling.
Now this is where the spanner falls into the works:
As part of the business we also do window cleaning using pure water systems on upper level windows. Ground level windows are done by using detergents and squeegies. Be assured that windows left in a neutral state by pure water stay cleaner longer than those done by detergents. This is because a micron of detergent is left on the window pane  which dirt sticks to easier.
Back to carpets: I get plenty of practice on my own thanks to the over sized pup I have but have not noticed any real difference in resoiling times between HWE, Rotary pads, MS and Prochem products.

[Ian Gourlay]

Ive been using ashbys Supreme new fomula on trashed carpets.  Last week black drink stains deep into the pile that customer had tried to remove and had been there a year disapaired with one pass using a high end portable
Sceptical Husband was left Gob Smacked he tried to cancel on my arival.
Stopped using it a few years back because Senior Forum members on the origional Cleantalk where into one step etc and they scared me,

Switched to Ultimate master but now feel Supreme is yeilding superior results

You do have to use finish spray etc

Have not been called back 



One of the problems I have we so called Echo Cleaners as I watch State of the Planet is that you still have to use Electric or Fuel to clean the carpet an I believe that does more harm to the planet than  detergents.

Also if Customer is not following truly Echo route it makes little difference.

One Lady asked me for Echo Cleaning which I can Supply, but does not recycle her rubbish.

I do believe because of Supperior emmision controls Wind Farms etc Electric does less damage

[Jason Hedges]

Hi all,

I agree with Ken, detergents dont promote re-soiling if used in the correct way.

I use detergents on most of my jobs both carpets & upholstery.

Have tried all major microsplitters and use occassionally when job requires but use more as a general spot & stain remover.

Detergents suit my way of cleaning, I charge a reasonable ammount (more than some but less than lots of others, so time is a big factor).

A normal job for me now is to vacuum all areas to be cleaned, run solution hoses from t/m and use inline sprayer to pre-spray (for arguments sake on an empty 3 bedroom house) 3 bedrooms. Initial dwell time is while I'm setting up vac hoses and putting ramps/cones in place.

Before I start extracting I will prespray h/s/l then start rinsing bedrooms, by the time I'm at the landing will prespray downstairs carpets allowing dwell while i clean h/s/l.

Can honestly say by using detergents and t/m i can clean the same area of carpet in probably 25% of the time compared to when i was using a high end portable, m/s & agitating.

I am in a privileged position owning a t/m, time is money and I've found to keep competitive price wise detergents are for me.

As for re-soiling, keep the rinse detergent to a minimum and leave as little residue as possible or use plain water.

On this subject, I believe rinses are mainly for neutralising pre-sprays (on certain types of carpets/upholstery) definately rather than adding extra cleaning power. I use plain water to rinse most man made fibres but will always use neutraliser on natural.

Pre-vac, pre-spray and occasional agitation on problem areas is the key, rinsing is either plain water or ph correctional to suit.

Sorry for the long winded post, the missus is watching x-factor repeat :

All the best,
Jason.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Some good posts here.

I have bridged the gap between detergents and MS/agitation by using Prochem Pureclean as  a detergent.

Pureclean is sodium tripolyphosphate (MS) and I have found I get very good results on most carpets , if it's trashed I will use Double Clean or Formula 90,  or Crystal Green with Cleansan if odour problems.

Sometimes I use a mixture ( except with CG/CS which needs to be used on itheir own).

On upholstery I usually use Pureclean with good results.

Cheers

Doug

[Luc]

I have almost always used a detergent on all my jobs for the last 11years.  I  always use a enzyme prespray on almost all my carpet work apart from certain wool carpets. i would then follow up cleaning with prochems woolsafe powder or cyrstal green. I changed to using m/s a year ago following loads of hype about going green etc. I found no difference between the two when it comes to resoiling but did find it would take me a lot longer to clean using m/s and that in my opinion m/s did not clean as well for me. I'm not saying that m/s are poop, but i just did not find them that good for my work. I still use m/s on some delicate wool rugs and upholstery.

I now clean most of my jobs using woodbridges enzyme prespray using a hydro force sprayer off my t-m solution hose. Depending on how trashed the carpet is i will use pure water to rinse off if the job is not that bad. If the job is bad i use Ashbys Supreme powder rarely going above 2 - 4 gph on the flow control.
On most wool carpets i use the supreme powder set on 2-4gph with good success and i've never had any complaints about resoiling or had any problem cleaning the same carpet 2 -3 times later. On the dark coloured wool rugs with unstable dyes i will depending on the condition and how dirty use  dryclean methods or use a light spray of one step.
I have tried lots of chemicals be it detergents of presprays of all various sorts. I personally find that enzyme presprays work fantastic for most of my jobs even rinsing off in just pure water.
On some jobs depending on how lazy i feel i have cleaned with no prespray just supreme powder set at 4 gph with great success on carpets.