[shaun_pearson]

Hi all,  got my new 400psi machine really happy with it, big difference from my 135.

Anyway got a real shocker of a house the other day,  the worst ive ever seen and seen some bad ones.
Ive cleaned this house the last couple of years now, big 7 bed house that lets each room out.
Cream poly loop pile carpet thats easy to clean but this time it was literaly jet black in places and badly soiled all over. 

My usuall method is just spray extact from machine with ultimate master. I know everyone reccs prespray and agitate but I suppose ive just got stuck in my ways.
Had a tub of enzall in the van and as it was so bad I prespayed it all.  It made it so much easier as i left a couple of bits without prespray to see the difference.

When I got the machine the supplier recc not using much solution in tank and prespraying.
Like I say Ive not bothered trying anything new for years so whats out there?
Whats your prefered prespray?
Looked at the sebo duo to to make the agitate easy, any good?
Finally looking for a tank additive the leaves a nice smell, any reccs?

Thanks for reading and here hoping for some advice.

Thanks  shaun

[Simon Gerrard]

Shaun,

If you don't pre-spray then you use an awful lot more energy and unnecessary amounts of water to get carpets clean. The best all round pre-spray on the market today is Prochem Powerburst,
http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/S789 but you must rinse it with Fibre and Fabric Rinse or HM's Clearwater Rinse.
http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/B109
The Sebo Duo is a great little machine but has its limitations.
If you want to use a deodoriser then Craftex Lavender Fresh is good stuff.
http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/0079

Hope this helps.

Simon

[Joe H]

Lots of choice really Shaun, and cleaners will have their preferred.

My preference is to stay low on the ph as much as possible. When you go high you get into acid rinse.
Powerburst is ok when necessary and Clear Water Rinse is a economic choice for a acid rinse.
Although Simons link for the Clear Water Rinse should have been to here: http://www.hydramaster.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=42

However, for a pre spray I often use Nemesis
http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Categories/Nem
or M-Power http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/index.php?categoryID=121
They work similarly and can just be rinsed/extracted out. 

At the moment I am on extended trial of Fusion8 which has built in anti-foam and soil retardant properties. http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/index.php?productID=667
Getting very good results, and if I mix at 1:40 or even 1:20 it is a good spotter too.

Never used a Sebo Duo, others say its ok but a bit lightweight. Envirodry, Host, Flexi5 and TM4 are heavier options at a "heavier" price.

Smelly additives - I dont use. So many people today have allergies to this and that. I dont want to be the one that sends a client or their child into an allergy attack - they will remember me for the wrong reason - not good for business.

The advice given about avoiding adding things to the tank, especially powders is good advice. Any powder, no matter how you use it, should be thoroughly mixed till all powder has disolved.

Water going through the pump should not be too hot either, most pumps do have a max temp range and its lower then what many think - 60degree should be ok.

[Colin Day]

Joe mentioned Fusion8, I'm getting every job now by explaining that "The solution I use contains a soil retardant...." It's a great selling point....

I have to say, I like trying new chemicals, but my favourite is definately Fusion8....

[David Rogers]

I almost fell into the lazy habit of just using Powerbust / Crystal Green on every job because it appears to make every job easy.  But the pH is too high to use without a rinse, or you risk leaving some carpets in a poor state.  The truth is, PB and CG are overkill for most domestic carpets and I rarely use them now.

It does pay dividends to use gentler chems when you can. As Joe suggested using some like Nemesis, (or Microsplit or Catalyist) can often get just as good a result, with no need for acid rinse, and gentler treatment of the carpet fibres.

I go through fits and starts with the presprays I use;  I get 'religious' about one then find something else and move onto that.

I've found all of these are great pre-sprays depending on the application;-

- Prochem Trafficlean
- Prochem Powerburst
- Prochem Prespray Gold
- Multisolv
- EnzAll
- Microsplit
- Catalyst
- Chemspec Heavy Duty Soil Lifter

.......... I would never ever dream of just using Hot Water Extraction, without prespraying. It's a bit like running your dirty hands under the tap without putting soap on first; you'd have to scrub bloody hard to get your hands clean!

[richy27]

I have to agree with simon powerburst is pretty dam good. but used correctly flushed thoroughly. i also use pre spray gold and thats about it. cant see the point in carrying every pre spray under the sun stick to what works.

[David Rogers]

Hi all,  got my new 400psi machine really happy with it, big difference from my 135.

Anyway got a real shocker of a house the other day,  the worst ive ever seen and seen some bad ones.
Ive cleaned this house the last couple of years now, big 7 bed house that lets each room out.
Cream poly loop pile carpet thats easy to clean but this time it was literaly jet black in places and badly soiled all over. 

My usuall method is just spray extact from machine with ultimate master. I know everyone reccs prespray and agitate but I suppose ive just got stuck in my ways.
Had a tub of enzall in the van and as it was so bad I prespayed it all.  It made it so much easier as i left a couple of bits without prespray to see the difference.

When I got the machine the supplier recc not using much solution in tank and prespraying.
Like I say Ive not bothered trying anything new for years so whats out there?
Whats your prefered prespray?
Looked at the sebo duo to to make the agitate easy, any good?
Finally looking for a tank additive the leaves a nice smell, any reccs?

Thanks for reading and here hoping for some advice.

Thanks  shaun

Shaun, do you mind me asking what 400psi machine you went for ?

I've got an aging Extracta CX as one of my back-up machines thats due for replacement so I'm considering a new machine.

[MAX Carpets]

pre-spray gold

[elliott cleaning]

Joe mentioned Fusion8, I'm getting every job now by explaining that "The solution I use contains a soil retardant...." It's a great selling point....

I have to say, I like trying new chemicals, but my favourite is definately Fusion8....

Colin - what do you clasify as a soil retardant & what evidence do you have as to how effective it really is?

[Bob Robertson]

Elliott

Here is a link to the product that states it has a built in soil retardant. It must have some kind of built in protector added.


http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/index.php?productID=667

Bob

[garry22]

Dry fusion products have two stain blockers built in.

I have noticed that cleaning becomes easier on subsequent visits.

[elliott cleaning]

Appreciate the link Bob.   Alas, it doesn't actually tell me what the so called 'soil retardant' is.   Afraid I'm the sort of guy that doesn't just accept a vague description someone puts on the tin.   Guess I'll have to quiz Solutions

[Bob Robertson]

Here is the MSDS info on it.


MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET   
FUSION 8     

 1.0 PRODUCT NAME: Fusion 8                       
 1.1 PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: Carpet cleaner super concentrate

    SUPPLIER:  Solution (Cornwall) Ltd
                                                  Unit 23 United Downs Industrial Park
                              St Day, Redruth
                           Cornwall  TR16 5HY
                                               Tel: 01209 823 746
                           Fax: 01209 821 954
                                    Email: info@solution-uk.com 


 2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION AND INGREDIENTS
     Hazardous Ingredients:                           CAS No:            EINECS          %w/w(range):             Nature of Hazard:
     Alcohol ethoxylates                            68991-48-0                                     1 - 5                                                                      Xi, R22, 41
     Acrylic polymer                                  25087-26-7                                     1 - 5                       Xi, R36/37/38
     Anionic polymer                                 26022-09-3                                     1 - 5                       Xi, R36

 3. HAZARD IDENTIFICATION
     Not classified as hazardous under CHIP Regs but commonsense precautions should be observed..

 4. FIRST AID MEASURES
     Eyes:       Flush with clean water for 15 minutes. Seek medical advice.
     Ingestion:    DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING.  Give milk or water to drink and seek immediate medical          attention.
     Skin:       Remove at once all contaminated clothing.  Wash area with soap and water.  Seek medical       advice if   
               irritation persists.

 5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
     Product is not flammable, however irritating fumes may be given off in the event of a fire.  Choice of extinguisher
     should be based on  surrounding materials.

 6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
     Small spillages may be rinsed away with plenty of water.  Larger spills should be contained and absorbed in               
     inert material.  Transfer to plastic container for disposal.

 7. HANDLING AND STORAGE
     Store between 0oC - 35oC in original container and out of reach of children.  Use only according to directions
     and do not mix with other chemicals.

 8. EXPOSURE CONTROL/PERSONAL PROTECTION
     Wear rubber gloves if prolonged skin contact is unavoidable. Wear eye protection to prevent liquid splashes if
     necessary.  Avoid working in spray mist.

 9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
     Appearance:    Clear pale brown liquid                                         

[Mike Halliday]

good luck with the quizzing, I constantly asked on cleantalk what it was and was just fobbed off with the excuse that they couldn't say as someone might copy it : :

I have seen lots of chemicals which offer a soil retardency, most are bonnet chemical which dilute (at most) 25=1. At this dilution rate I can believe enough active chemical is left on the carpet to give soil retardant properties. but using 160-1 dilution no way can it do what it says.

and most of the other chemical admit that the soil retardency has to be built up with subsequent clean

..........................................................................

bob that says  nothing about what the active soil retardent is( unless its the 1-5% active polymor_

[Bob Robertson]

Mike

That's what I thought it would be. I'm sure one of the chemists on here would be able to give us a more in depth explanation of what it is.

Bob

[Mike Halliday]

if it is that then it is between 1% & 5% of the solution,

this next part is complicated..... so try and keep up


so lets average it out and say 2.5% and it is applied @ 160-1 that means on an average living room which requires 45lts of cleaning cleaning solution to HWE clean, of which 80% is vacuumed back into the machine leaving 4(ish) lts on the carpet (which remember is diluted at 160-1) so probably 2ml which only 5% is polymer is on the carpet and this tiny amount gives the carpet protection : : : :

I think my maths is correct

[jasonl]

if it is that then it is between 1% & 5% of the solution,

this next part is complicated..... so try and keep up


so lets average it out and say 2.5% and it is applied @ 160-1 that means on an average living room which requires 45lts of cleaning cleaning solution to HWE clean, of which 80% is vacuumed back into the machine leaving 4(ish) lts on the carpet (which remember is diluted at 160-1) so probably 2ml which only 5% is polymer is on the carpet and this tiny amount gives the carpet protection : : : :

I think my maths is correct

I do not know the answer , but I asked the same question to Robert Harris , the american Chem-Dry founder. He told me that the active polymer "sticks" to the fibres in a greater concentration relative to the volume of solution applied, and yes Mick , I thought it was BS  too !