Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on August 17, 2022, 04:47:33 pm
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So around 12noon today my pump kept intermittently stopping so i went back to the van and BAT 10.6 was flashing on my controller so I let my diesel heater shut down then turned it off.fault code(3 flashes meaning low voltage)was showing on heater as it went through its shut down cycle.then I started my van and cleaned another 3 houses with engine running with cold water no problem.
I then had lunch with engine running.turned it off and cleaned another 7 houses with cold water no problem and no problem with electric reel either....battery voltage showing 12.7.....obviously just having my pump running uses a lot less power than when my heaters on....
My batteries are around 3 years old and I've noticed the battery voltage has been a bit lower than usual the last few weeks at the end of the day under load...going below 12 volts when reeling in and shutting heater down....its never gone below 12.2 in 3 years when under load!then creeps back to 12.5 when everything's turned off
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I've replaced the batteries with 2 identical numax batteries that I've had at home for 3 years(periodically charging them up approx every 3 months)...
I originally changed them 3 years ago because I wrongly assumed that I had a battery issue(fault code 3 flashes kept coming up on heater)but my battery voltage was nowhere near as low as this time....it was a fuse issue,swapped it out and everything's been fine and dandy for 3 years now....
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I am having the exact same issue at the moment I have also replaced the 2 batteries but it still powers the heater off with the connection or battery code ie 3 slow flashes 5 quick,what are you saying is the issue with the fuses then I’ve changed the yellow 20amp fuse multiple times and it hasn’t sorted it although the fuse had to be pulled out with pliers as it had broken up.
Grippa are coming it to service it soon but it would be nice to sort it before the new burner and glow pin.
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I also haven’t had a major drop in battery it fluctuates from 13-8 down to 12-9ish,the pump does seem to run like it’s voltage is sometimes dropping suddenly though by the sound of it running although the numbers don’t change on the controller Volts wise.
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I am having the exact same issue at the moment I have also replaced the 2 batteries but it still powers the heater off with the connection or battery code ie 3 slow flashes 5 quick,what are you saying is the issue with the fuses then I’ve changed the yellow 20amp fuse multiple times and it hasn’t sorted it although the fuse had to be pulled out with pliers as it had broken up.
Grippa are coming it to service it soon but it would be nice to sort it before the new burner and glow pin.
If you ve changed the batteries recently then it'll be a wiring issue or fuse/fuse holder needing replacement....I swapped out a fuse (and holder) and mine hasn't missed a beat in 3 years....
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I am having the exact same issue at the moment I have also replaced the 2 batteries but it still powers the heater off with the connection or battery code ie 3 slow flashes 5 quick,what are you saying is the issue with the fuses then I’ve changed the yellow 20amp fuse multiple times and it hasn’t sorted it although the fuse had to be pulled out with pliers as it had broken up.
Grippa are coming it to service it soon but it would be nice to sort it before the new burner and glow pin.
I'd change the holder as well....this will be your issue Nigel...
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Yeah thanks Daz I was thinking fuse holder the yellow 20amp fuse is constantly blowing and needs pulling out with pliers when I change it.
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Yeah thanks Daz I was thinking fuse holder the yellow 20amp fuse is constantly blowing and needs pulling out with pliers when I change it.
It's easy to change my fuse holders because grippa put bullet connectors either side of the holders so it's an easy swap out..👍
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1660759355_2FF578B8-EDA4-4A99-AAC9-7BB871023D03.jpeg)
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Not looking good Daz if I’m honest they look like they’ve got pretty hot at some point.
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Not looking good Daz if I’m honest they look like they’ve got pretty hot at some point.
Why don’t you have it wired to a remote fuse board you don’t get any of theses issues then
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I am no electrician Splash
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I am no electrician Splash
I had a mate of mine who is a marine electrician wire all my stuff up it’s not a lot of work or very expensive but well worth having done not had a single problem in over 15 years doing it this way .
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I've never had a low battery warning on my controller in 5 years so I think it'll be the batteries that need changing.even if it's only one battery that's bad it will effect and drain the other battery(I have 2 in tandem)....
I've switched them for 2 batteries that are nearly 5 years old(used for 2 years).I suspect these won't last long so I'll order another 2 today.
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Not looking good Daz if I’m honest they look like they’ve got pretty hot at some point.
The recent hot weather could have affected the wiring/fuses if you ve been using hot water..I had to turn mine off because the hose was too hot to handle...
IMO grippatank should have better wiring (a fuseboard) when they fit them in the first place.all the heat and vibration and even risk of water ingress doesn't help...
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I had the heater on also in the hot weather and yes the same I couldn’t hold the hose hardly to reel a load of hose out at the corner of a job to avoid plants etc,with no heater in the hot weather I took a reading a few times from the water in the tank and it was 24 degrees van and static lol.
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Well i had my heater running for 6 hours continuously today and no problems whatsoever since I changed the batteries so it's defo a battery issue.no fault code(3 flashes indicating low voltage)on shutting down and battery voltage at 12.7 at the end of the day....Well happy!😎
The batteries are 5 years old too....even if I only get a year out of them it saves buying 2 more for now.👍
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How can it be a battery issue when you’ve stuck 2 old batteries on it and it’s trouble free now,yeah the 3 flashes is the same fault code I’m getting from the unit lose connection or battery low.
It can’t be the batteries with me I changed both of mine and they are also inline.
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How can it be a battery issue when you’ve stuck 2 old batteries on it and it’s trouble free now,yeah the 3 flashes is the same fault code I’m getting from the unit lose connection or battery low.
It can’t be the batteries with me I changed both of mine and they are also inline.
Because the numax batteries are the original batteries I got with the system...I only used them for 2 years.the last 3 years they have been stored in my flat with a regular charge every 3 months or so....
I also charged them up last night before using them today for the first time in 3 years....they are still in good condition!👌
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How can it be a battery issue when you’ve stuck 2 old batteries on it and it’s trouble free now,yeah the 3 flashes is the same fault code I’m getting from the unit lose connection or battery low.
It can’t be the batteries with me I changed both of mine and they are also inline.
It should be easy to change the fuse holder...if it keeps blowing then this will 100% be your issue!
All I did was order a few fuse holders and bullet connectors and crimped them on....it is a 5 min job Nigel to swap them out!
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I have let Oliver know Daz they’ll do it when they service the burner with a new burner and glow pin.
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What chargers are you using Daz?
My Ctek charger is keeping my batteries as good as new. 3 years old now, but still never dropping below 12.7v while under load.
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Before this what we think is fuse holder issue let me tell you I didn’t mains my batteries for months and months with no issues,the van was charging them up to 13-6-13-9 whilst driving then dropping to 12-6-12-8.
I was told that they need 11 hours a week even though I do probably 300 miles a week on average,Grippa do a new unit that can bolt on to mine now I’ve been told that’ll half the charging time or drastically reduce it.
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Before this what we think is fuse holder issue let me tell you I didn’t mains my batteries for months and months with no issues,the van was charging them up to 13-6-13-9 whilst driving then dropping to 12-6-12-8.
I was told that they need 11 hours a week even though I do probably 300 miles a week on average,Grippa do a new unit that can bolt on to mine now I’ve been told that’ll half the charging time or drastically reduce it.
A lead acid or calcium acid battery will only accept a charge at the rate it can absorb that charge. My leisure battery is a calcium acid combo battery. I have a Sterling 12v battery to battery BB1260 in my van. I removed it for repair and replaced it with a basic 140amp Durite VSR. There was hardly a noticeable difference in the charging rate between the 2.
I actually asked George Sterling to clarify the claim that the Sterling unit will charge my leisure battery up to 5 times faster. He ignored my request, but did answer another question that I posed in the same email.
At the moment, the only battery available that will be successfully recharged by a B2B charger is a LiFePO4 Lithium Leisure Battery. But their price doesn't justify the benefits, imho.
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What chargers are you using Daz?
My Ctek charger is keeping my batteries as good as new. 3 years old now, but still never dropping below 12.7v while under load.
Numax 20amp commercial charger
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What chargers are you using Daz?
My Ctek charger is keeping my batteries as good as new. 3 years old now, but still never dropping below 12.7v while under load.
Numax 20amp commercial charger
Does it vary the charging rate and then go onto float when fully charged ???
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What chargers are you using Daz?
My Ctek charger is keeping my batteries as good as new. 3 years old now, but still never dropping below 12.7v while under load.
Numax 20amp commercial charger
Does it have a recon mode on the charger etc?
I seriously recommend ctek. They are the best out there. They can recondition, maintain, and charge, all by themselves.
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What chargers are you using Daz?
My Ctek charger is keeping my batteries as good as new. 3 years old now, but still never dropping below 12.7v while under load.
Numax 20amp commercial charger
Does it vary the charging rate and then go onto float when fully charged ???
Yes
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What chargers are you using Daz?
My Ctek charger is keeping my batteries as good as new. 3 years old now, but still never dropping below 12.7v while under load.
Numax 20amp commercial charger
Does it have a recon mode on the charger etc?
I seriously recommend ctek. They are the best out there. They can recondition, maintain, and charge, all by themselves.
It just varies the charge depending on the condition of the battery.its made for my numax batteries...
Batteries don't last forever though...I am quite surprised how good the ones I've switched are doing though considering they ve been in storage for 3 years!😄
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Interesting Thread to read through. 10.6V on the batteries is low however as your comment the heater will pull higher amps particularly in the initial start up . When maintaining temp it will pull less amps. Not sue about the current Webasto but an older model would pull around 9amps in its start up sequence for around 30 seconds to a minute then dropped off to around 3amps per hour if just maintaining temp.
I would agree that wiring and the fuse could be a source of volt drop where cables are worn/damaged The Fuse holder and fuse can be subject to corrosion over time. The cabling is heat rated to 120c but the combination of high summer temps and the temp inside the cabinet could soften the cable outer and make the cable more likely damaged.
Batteries do lose the ability to hold charge over time and at three years old are lasting well. A good example of how regularly maintaining the batteries extends their life.
I noted the battery voltage recovered to 12.7 with the heater off and the load was reduced. A battery will recover volts when there is no load and it could potentially recover that much, A sign that the battery is worn and needs replacing is how fast the voltage drops when the battery comes under load. I would expect to see a drop in volts perhaps up to .5 of a volt so form 12.7 to 12.2 might be normal from there the volts should drop off slowly over 4 hours or so. If that voltage drops quickly within say 30 minutes of use that would be an indicator that the batteries need replacing.
The spare batteries you have had stored will have lost some capacity as batteries can discharge up to 5% a week just sitting that is known as parasitic discharge. However they would be in better condition than the ones in the van.
Cheers
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Interesting Thread to read through. 10.6V on the batteries is low however as your comment the heater will pull higher amps particularly in the initial start up . When maintaining temp it will pull less amps. Not sue about the current Webasto but an older model would pull around 9amps in its start up sequence for around 30 seconds to a minute then dropped off to around 3amps per hour if just maintaining temp.
I would agree that wiring and the fuse could be a source of volt drop where cables are worn/damaged The Fuse holder and fuse can be subject to corrosion over time. The cabling is heat rated to 120c but the combination of high summer temps and the temp inside the cabinet could soften the cable outer and make the cable more likely damaged.
Batteries do lose the ability to hold charge over time and at three years old are lasting well. A good example of how regularly maintaining the batteries extends their life.
I noted the battery voltage recovered to 12.7 with the heater off and the load was reduced. A battery will recover volts when there is no load and it could potentially recover that much, A sign that the battery is worn and needs replacing is how fast the voltage drops when the battery comes under load. I would expect to see a drop in volts perhaps up to .5 of a volt so form 12.7 to 12.2 might be normal from there the volts should drop off slowly over 4 hours or so. If that voltage drops quickly within say 30 minutes of use that would be an indicator that the batteries need replacing.
The spare batteries you have had stored will have lost some capacity as batteries can discharge up to 5% a week just sitting that is known as parasitic discharge. However they would be in better condition than the ones in the van.
Cheers
Thanks Ian...🙂
The batteries I've had stored at home for 3 years have been periodically charged (roughly every 3 months) to counter the parasitic loss and they've been kept warm and dry on carpet.thats probably why they are still OK.
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They will have to strip and replace many wires in my cabinet almost every wire on the fuse board is blackened so are the wires on the opposite end of the cabinet and have been for a few years,the thing is for me it’s very difficult to get to it as I have a hosereel stand mounted in front screwed to the van floor and with the 2 man system it’s very tight in the cabinet.
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If you are still here Ian, What are your views of keeping leisure batteries on constant charge? Not really window cleaning related. More of a mains hook up question as found in a boat, caravan or motorhome. Is it good or bad?
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If you are still here Ian, What are your views of keeping leisure batteries on constant charge? Not really window cleaning related. More of a mains hook up question as found in a boat, caravan or motorhome. Is it good or bad?
If you are using a decent smart charger with variable charge rate and float mode you can leave them on permanent charge without any issues , a mate of mine is a marine electrician and they do it all the time on boats , he did my van s the same way .
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Thanks Ian ::)roll