Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 07:48:11 am

Title: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 07:48:11 am
just got my renewal through(£80-00) for 1million cover,always paid around £65 before(insurance premium tax is now 12% though from 6%)........simply business......

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Gomo on December 07, 2018, 07:56:50 am
15 a month with gleaming

Includes items worked on though..,actually took that out when I did carpet cleaning and connys etc.

Could probably just get away with basic PLI now I am 99% windows.

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Cookie on December 07, 2018, 08:05:12 am
just got my renewal through(£80-00) for 1million cover,always paid around £65 before(insurance premium tax is now 12% though from 6%)........simply business......

That's cheap. Does that cover items worked on?
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: zesty on December 07, 2018, 08:18:05 am
Just had my renewal, £100 odd with simply business.

It started at around £50 and has gone up year on year...
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 08:20:40 am
just got my renewal through(£80-00) for 1million cover,always paid around £65 before(insurance premium tax is now 12% though from 6%)........simply business......

That's cheap. Does that cover items worked on?

no.....
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 08:22:12 am
Just had my renewal, £100 odd with simply business.

It started at around £50 and has gone up year on year...
NO insurance company rewards loyalty.........
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Shrek on December 07, 2018, 08:25:29 am
just got my renewal through(£80-00) for 1million cover,always paid around £65 before(insurance premium tax is now 12% though from 6%)........simply business......

That's cheap. Does that cover items worked on?

no.....

A bit pointless then if your not covered for property worked on. What happens when you crack some glass with your hot water? Why do you buy a policy that doesnít cover you for property worked on?

Iím with gleaming- canít remember exact amount but I think itís double what your renewal is
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 08:40:57 am
just got my renewal through(£80-00) for 1million cover,always paid around £65 before(insurance premium tax is now 12% though from 6%)........simply business......

That's cheap. Does that cover items worked on?

no.....

A bit pointless then if your not covered for property worked on. What happens when you crack some glass with your hot water? Why do you buy a policy that doesnít cover you for property worked on?

Iím with gleaming- canít remember exact amount but I think itís double what your renewal is

ive never broke anything more than a few plant pots and roof tiles(not a problem with wfp)in 25 years of window cleaning so i dont see the point.......

the PLI is for if i injure someone and they try to sue me (plus i need it for some commercial jobs i clean)
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 08:51:44 am
i did crack a pane of glass in jan this year but it already had a little crack in it so the customer replaced it themselves at no charge to myself... ;)
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Whey_Aye_Banzai on December 07, 2018, 09:04:57 am
just got my renewal through(£80-00) for 1million cover,always paid around £65 before(insurance premium tax is now 12% though from 6%)........simply business......

I need 5 million quid; some jobs require that level; but it's not that much more than yours, from Simply Business.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Whey_Aye_Banzai on December 07, 2018, 09:09:33 am
A bit pointless then if your not covered for property worked on. What happens when you crack some glass with your hot water? Why do you buy a policy that doesnít cover you for property worked on?

As Daz says, it's really if you injure someone, somehow.  Drop a pole on their head or something; but a local window cleaner to me did sub a job out to a family member and they had a set of ladders blow from the side of a wall and land on someone's head.  He posted about it here a few years back.  I'm not sure how that turned out, but that would be the kind of situation you'd use this insurance for.

Otherwise it's a tick-box exercise for some commercial jobs that require their window cleaners to be insured.  And you can also use it as a selling point.

Wor Lass has recently been DBS checked (for something non-window cleaning related), but I think I'll get DBS checked too and use that also.

The perception that window cleaners are drug-taking scallywags can be useful if you appear not to be (which most aren't, I know).
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Simon Trapani on December 07, 2018, 09:10:51 am
Iím with Polished insurance & it does cover glass worked on. Obviously thereís an excess. Iím sure it wasnít much extra than my previous company. Hard for me to compare now though as itís all rolled in with my tools cover and/or employerís liability I think. Canít remember off the top of my head.

Daz, why spend four grand on a hot system, have a new van and then skimp roughly an extra £50-£100 a year on insurance? Yes itís unlikely youíll ever need it but you could say the same about car insurance. Itís just peace of mind for me personally.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Whey_Aye_Banzai on December 07, 2018, 09:21:26 am
Daz, why spend four grand on a hot system, have a new van and then skimp roughly an extra £50-£100 a year on insurance? Yes itís unlikely youíll ever need it but you could say the same about car insurance. Itís just peace of mind for me personally.

I've never broke a pain of glass in 15 years (well not really; popped a few panes of real leaded glass out of badly maintained windows before) so that's £50 x 15 years = £750 quid saved.

If I/we ever did break something, we'd just cough up for it.  That'll work out cheaper in the long run (think increased insurance premiums too).
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: nathankaye on December 07, 2018, 09:37:16 am
Im with alexandra swan and pay about 90 for 3 or 5 million and property im working on. (Cant recall full details ie 3 or 5 million without looking at it again, which wont be untill i renew it as in all the years of using it, ive not had to use it. Haha ive come close with customers trying it on tho)
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Soupy on December 07, 2018, 10:34:18 am
Just had my renewal, £100 odd with simply business.

It started at around £50 and has gone up year on year...
NO insurance company rewards loyalty.........

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/about-us/mutual-bonus/
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Soupy on December 07, 2018, 10:42:34 am
Daz, why spend four grand on a hot system, have a new van and then skimp roughly an extra £50-£100 a year on insurance? Yes it’s unlikely you’ll ever need it but you could say the same about car insurance. It’s just peace of mind for me personally.

I've never broke a pain of glass in 15 years (well not really; popped a few panes of real leaded glass out of badly maintained windows before) so that's £50 x 15 years = £750 quid saved.

If I/we ever did break something, we'd just cough up for it.  That'll work out cheaper in the long run (think increased insurance premiums too).

You don't need to actually do anything wrong for it to be an issue though. There is nowt stopping folk accusing you of wrongdoing even when they know it wasn't you. Lee Bumbridge posted a situation on FB that is likely to run into £1000s. I have had two similar instances of it myself (although not quite on the same scale).

Handy if you can just pass it off to your insurers to fight for you.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Proud Gammon on December 07, 2018, 10:59:28 am
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Soupy on December 07, 2018, 11:04:34 am
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).

That's only a 30% saving. It still costs.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: deeege on December 07, 2018, 11:07:09 am
Madness not to be covered for buildings worked on. I clean a college that has a full section of glazing that cost £2k per unit, 60 of them, unlikely but if I somehow managed to damage that it would ruin me. £15 a month well spent imo.

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Gomo on December 07, 2018, 11:34:20 am
Mine covers property worked on but if you are 100% residential window cleaning it's probably not needed. I've never broke more than a plant pot, gnome or vase etc and that stuff can be lobbed in the hedge  :D
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: 8 weekly on December 07, 2018, 11:50:11 am
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).

That's only a 30% saving. It still costs.
Parto's too thick to realise that.  ;)
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Proud Gammon on December 07, 2018, 12:03:53 pm
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).

That's only a 30% saving. It still costs.
Parto's too thick to realise that.  ;)

Go back to defending rapists and groomers  ;)
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Proud Gammon on December 07, 2018, 12:06:13 pm
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).

That's only a 30% saving. It still costs.

Of course. Still very much worth having a decent policy though.  Every little helps etc. I would have thought piece of mind too.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: nathankaye on December 07, 2018, 12:15:05 pm
So a while back i was wrongfully accused of scratching some glass (residential) and when i spoke to my insurers they took the approach that its hard to prove that i didnt do it, if they are insistant. That was even after i presented them with, what i thought was strong prove that it wasnt me.

So in other words, they dont put up much of a fight and those panels were £600 each.
I supppse if it was going to cost the insurers too much, then they would fight for themselves, ,,,,,,erm i mean you 😂😂
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: 8 weekly on December 07, 2018, 12:23:43 pm
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).

That's only a 30% saving. It still costs.

Of course. Still very much worth having a decent policy though.  Every little helps etc. I would have thought piece of mind too.
Peace you thick moron
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Proud Gammon on December 07, 2018, 12:25:28 pm
What does it matter what it costs.

Tax deductible (assuming you pay tax of course).

That's only a 30% saving. It still costs.

Of course. Still very much worth having a decent policy though.  Every little helps etc. I would have thought piece of mind too.
Peace you thick moron

Full stop at the end you complete kn0b.  ;D
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Soupy on December 07, 2018, 12:37:16 pm
So a while back i was wrongfully accused of scratching some glass (residential) and when i spoke to my insurers they took the approach that its hard to prove that i didnt do it, if they are insistant. That was even after i presented them with, what i thought was strong prove that it wasnt me.

So in other words, they dont put up much of a fight and those panels were £600 each.
I supppse if it was going to cost the insurers too much, then they would fight for themselves, ,,,,,,erm i mean you

With insures it's simple:

How much is the claim going to cost to fix.
How much is the legal cost to fight the claim.
How likely are they to win the fight.

If it's cheaper to fix than to fight, they fix it. If not they consider fighting it.

Yes, it's difficult to prove you didn't do it, but the burden of proof isn't with you,  it's with the accuser. Remember it's just as difficult to prove that you did do it. I suspect the insurance company fobbed you off because they knew, that in all likelihood, that would be the last they heard from you.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 03:34:54 pm
Madness not to be covered for buildings worked on. I clean a college that has a full section of glazing that cost £2k per unit, 60 of them, unlikely but if I somehow managed to damage that it would ruin me. £15 a month well spent imo.

why?i dont clean colleges or schools and wouldnt take them on anyway....for years i never had any public liability insurance AT ALL when i was on the ladders........
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: dazmond on December 07, 2018, 03:36:58 pm
Iím with Polished insurance & it does cover glass worked on. Obviously thereís an excess. Iím sure it wasnít much extra than my previous company. Hard for me to compare now though as itís all rolled in with my tools cover and/or employerís liability I think. Canít remember off the top of my head.

Daz, why spend four grand on a hot system, have a new van and then skimp roughly an extra £50-£100 a year on insurance? Yes itís unlikely youíll ever need it but you could say the same about car insurance. Itís just peace of mind for me personally.

i just dont see a need for anything but the basic insurance mate...i never used to have any when i was on the ladders! ;D
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: cleaniac on December 08, 2018, 09:12:44 am
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: cleaniac on December 08, 2018, 09:15:08 am
Madness not to be covered for buildings worked on. I clean a college that has a full section of glazing that cost £2k per unit, 60 of them, unlikely but if I somehow managed to damage that it would ruin me. £15 a month well spent imo.

why?i dont clean colleges or schools and wouldnt take them on anyway....for years i never had any public liability insurance AT ALL when i was on the ladders........

As a sole trader its not a legal requirement to have public liability insurance in place. So dont worry about it daz.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Dry Clean on December 08, 2018, 10:37:07 am
So a while back i was wrongfully accused of scratching some glass (residential) and when i spoke to my insurers they took the approach that its hard to prove that i didnt do it, if they are insistant. That was even after i presented them with, what i thought was strong prove that it wasnt me.

So in other words, they dont put up much of a fight and those panels were £600 each.
I supppse if it was going to cost the insurers too much, then they would fight for themselves, ,,,,,,erm i mean you

With insures it's simple:

How much is the claim going to cost to fix.
How much is the legal cost to fight the claim.
How likely are they to win the fight.

If it's cheaper to fix than to fight, they fix it. If not they consider fighting it.

Yes, it's difficult to prove you didn't do it, but the burden of proof isn't with you,  it's with the accuser. Remember it's just as difficult to prove that you did do it. I suspect the insurance company fobbed you off because they knew, that in all likelihood, that would be the last they heard from you.

If they had bothered to come on here and read his posts  they would have fought it the whole way, he actually scrubbed the concrete off the glass because he thought hot water would melt it, I kid you not,lol
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: nathankaye on December 08, 2018, 11:56:48 am
Sean sean sean, give it a rest with your inexperience viewpoint of hot water.

In addition the concrete splatter was at the bottom on the panes and the scratches were towards the top half of the panels.

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Soupy on December 08, 2018, 01:22:37 pm
Sean sean sean, give it a rest with your inexperience viewpoint of hot water.

Are you saying that cement does melt in hot water?
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: P @ F on December 08, 2018, 08:07:30 pm
No , hold on a minute chaps , Nath isnt on about the patio doors incident , this is the one where he forgot to turn the immersion off when he should have and that resulted in him melting the whole house  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Gomo on December 08, 2018, 09:11:03 pm
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o


You dont need Employers Liability if you are a sole employee and own at least 50% of shares.

Of course in your case you do with the wife but just to be clear, i cancelled mine after the last employee i had

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Dry Clean on December 09, 2018, 12:51:15 am
Sean sean sean, give it a rest with your inexperience viewpoint of hot water.

In addition the concrete splatter was at the bottom on the panes and the scratches were towards the top half of the panels.

I know Nathan, its not how you did the work but your waffle that would have sunk you, trust me when sensible/crafty  types are blaming you on scratching their glass waffling on about hot water isn't  going to help.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: cleaniac on December 09, 2018, 01:01:32 am
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o


You dont need Employers Liability if you are a sole employee and own at least 50% of shares.

Of course in your case you do with the wife but just to be clear, i cancelled mine after the last employee i had

Yes thats correct
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: KS Cleaning on December 09, 2018, 01:08:16 am
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o


You dont need Employers Liability if you are a sole employee and own at least 50% of shares.

Of course in your case you do with the wife but just to be clear, i cancelled mine after the last employee i had

Yes thats correct
I donít think that is correct, unless the law has changed recently, you donít need employers liability insurance for family members.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Gomo on December 09, 2018, 08:50:35 am
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o


You dont need Employers Liability if you are a sole employee and own at least 50% of shares.

Of course in your case you do with the wife but just to be clear, i cancelled mine after the last employee i had

Yes thats correct
I donít think that is correct, unless the law has changed recently, you donít need employers liability insurance for family members.

Yes pretty sure it is correct.

Family members excemption does not apply to ltd company's.


But this just highlights why we all should not take anyone elses word for it and should always check as laws change and you can't guess at these things the fines are massive.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: cleaniac on December 10, 2018, 09:26:07 am
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o


You dont need Employers Liability if you are a sole employee and own at least 50% of shares.

Of course in your case you do with the wife but just to be clear, i cancelled mine after the last employee i had

Yes thats correct
I donít think that is correct, unless the law has changed recently, you donít need employers liability insurance for family members.

It is correct.

If you employ, it makes no difference if they are family members or not.

My wife is on paye through my company as am i, she is not a director, she is not a partner, she is simply an employee.

Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Soupy on December 10, 2018, 09:28:17 am
Try working in Scotland.

No PLI = no licence.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on December 10, 2018, 01:38:37 pm
Some commercial expect to see your certificate before you start.

Most schools expect min £5 mill pl
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Plankton on December 10, 2018, 01:46:31 pm
Last FOI request to local council shows there is not many windys with licences, only 14 or 15 shiners had a licence. But yes if you want to apply for one you need proof of PL. So how does that work out for Sole Trader's? Any link for this rule just out of curiosity although I wouldn't advise (against) not having PL as in the event of a claim it's your property that could be paying for the bill.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: KS Cleaning on December 10, 2018, 08:15:18 pm
I pay £50 a month for both public liability and employee liability for up to 3 workers.

Its a legal requirement if you are an employer, and since me and the missus are employees, i figured might as well go for 3 as if I use a sub contractor or casual worker ( i have for a couple of days this year) i have cover in place.

If you don't have cover, they can charge you £2500 per day for not having insurance in place.  :o


You dont need Employers Liability if you are a sole employee and own at least 50% of shares.

Of course in your case you do with the wife but just to be clear, i cancelled mine after the last employee i had

Yes thats correct
I donít think that is correct, unless the law has changed recently, you donít need employers liability insurance for family members.

It is correct.

If you employ, it makes no difference if they are family members or not.

My wife is on paye through my company as am i, she is not a director, she is not a partner, she is simply an employee.
I take it you are a Ltd company? That will be the reason you need the employers insurance for family members. If youíre not a Ltd company you donít need employers insurance for immediate family members.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Plankton on December 10, 2018, 08:27:18 pm
Have you got a link to confirm?
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: KS Cleaning on December 10, 2018, 08:50:43 pm
Have you got a link to confirm?
No I donít have a link, but this exemption applies to employers insurance, not  public liability insurance.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Pete Thompson on December 10, 2018, 11:51:20 pm
My insurances are as follows:

Commercial Vehicle (2017 Toyota Proace) - Fully Comp: £361
System & Poles : £230 (700 Litre Pure2o [Ionic] System)
Public Liability (£1m includes property worked on) : £107
Replacement Reach & Wash vehicle : £75

All with Alexander Swan, who are a brilliant company.  Highly recommend.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Plankton on December 13, 2018, 03:38:46 pm
So you were right...

Employersí Liability (Compulsory Insurance) Act 1969
2 Employees to be covered.
(1)For the purposes of this Act the term ďemployeeĒ means an individual who has entered into or works under a contract of service or apprenticeship with an employer whether by way of manual labour, clerical work or otherwise, whether such contract is expressed or implied, oral or in writing.
(2)This Act shall not require an employer to insureó
(a)in respect of an employee of whom the employer is the husband, wife,[F1civil partner,] father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, step-father, step-mother, son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter, stepson, stepdaughter, brother, sister, half-brother or half-sister; or
(b)except as otherwise provided by regulations, in respect of employees not ordinarily resident in Great Britain.
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: KS Cleaning on December 13, 2018, 03:49:12 pm
So you were right...

Employersí Liability (Compulsory Insurance) Act 1969
2 Employees to be covered.
(1)For the purposes of this Act the term ďemployeeĒ means an individual who has entered into or works under a contract of service or apprenticeship with an employer whether by way of manual labour, clerical work or otherwise, whether such contract is expressed or implied, oral or in writing.
(2)This Act shall not require an employer to insureó
(a)in respect of an employee of whom the employer is the husband, wife,[F1civil partner,] father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, step-father, step-mother, son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter, stepson, stepdaughter, brother, sister, half-brother or half-sister; or
(b)except as otherwise provided by regulations, in respect of employees not ordinarily resident in Great Britain.
😉
Title: Re: PLI.......how much are you paying?
Post by: Plankton on December 13, 2018, 04:44:33 pm
£92 for myself but any damage and I'll need to get the window cleaning gear out! Need to up it to employers liability so waiting to hear back.
703 - Property being worked upon
The Public liability section will apply to accidental loss of or damage to property you are or have been cleaning, restoring or treating at your premises or at your customers premises where loss or damage arises from that work. We will pay the amount of damages for which you become legally liable subject to the following
504 - Ropes, cradles or harnesses exclusion
We will not cover any bodily injury, loss or damage arising out of the use of lifting platforms, ropes, cradles or harnesses.
505 - Exterior building cleaning exclusion
We will not cover any bodily injury, loss or damage arising out of the cleaning of the exterior of buildings (other than window cleaning).