Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jonny 87 on November 14, 2018, 09:53:51 pm
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1542231611_B24453F0-DDAB-49A6-A624-5CBDDAA31BE7.jpeg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1542231611_9BC75C78-6FDF-47C0-BA94-6799E32BF763.jpeg)
It’s Been 2 weeks now since I had this heater fitted and what can I say.....I’m so glad I Went for it. For anyone thinking of going for it I’d highly recommend Grippatank.
It’s a 2 man 9kw system, battery to battery charger, 2 x 115 amp batteries, and Hydroheat hoses, fully fitted in Cambridge over 2 days.
Everything from Start to finish has been great, service was 5 star. Grippa even went as far as organising a lift for me and my wife to our hotel. Honestly can’t fault them.
I can adjust the temperatures from Luke warm, to scorching hot. It’s a really versatile unit. Jump in the van, turn the pumps on and after a few minutes of it heating up I’ve got hot water.
Over the years I’ve used immersion heaters, LPG and even drop in fish tank heaters, but now I’ve used this heater, I’m defintiely never going back. This is so simple to use, and it delivers just what I need.
Plus the frost stat on it saves me messing about with radiators and fan heaters in my van on those cold winters nights.
Very happy chap, and would recommend it to everyone. 👍
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How much
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How much
Not cheap, but worth it. ☺️ Especially in the long run.
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/hydroheat-9kw-hot-water-heater
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Getting mine fitted end of this month, plus speed liner on the floor
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Do you have any leaks? They fitted the tank upside down!! :o
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Do you have any leaks? They fitted the tank upside down!! :o
🤣
That always happens when I post from my phone! Sort it out CIU.
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Where are the batteries positioned?
I’d always assumed they’d be within the cabinet.
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Where are the batteries positioned?
I’d always assumed they’d be within the cabinet.
They are down the right hand side of my tank. The cabinet is very slim to take up as little room as possible. 👍
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i bet your well happy with that set up jonny!it certainly helps the day along and makes it more comfortable and easier....
yes....initial costs are high but that system should last you many years now......
like you ive spent a few years with DIY hot systems and trying to do things on the cheap........
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i bet your well happy with that set up jonny!it certainly helps the day along and makes it more comfortable and easier....
yes....initial costs are high but that system should last you many years now......
like you ive spent a few years with DIY hot systems and trying to do things on the cheap........
That’s it daz. 👍
It’s a big purchase, but it’s going to last me many many years.
I’m at the stage where I want the easiest work day as possible. Nice hot water definitely helps you in those dark, cold and miserable days we have to sometimes work in.
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i bet your well happy with that set up jonny!it certainly helps the day along and makes it more comfortable and easier....
yes....initial costs are high but that system should last you many years now......
like you ive spent a few years with DIY hot systems and trying to do things on the cheap........
That’s it daz. 👍
It’s a big purchase, but it’s going to last me many many years.
I’m at the stage where I want the easiest work day as possible. Nice hot water definitely helps you in those dark, cold and miserable days we have to sometimes work in.
too right! ;D
BUT!how many other trades spend a lot of money on tools,vans etc?,much more than us window cleaners so a few thousand in the grand scheme of things is nothing long term esp if you have the heater installed in a new(or nearly new)van that your gonna keep for years and years......
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
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i bet your well happy with that set up jonny!it certainly helps the day along and makes it more comfortable and easier....
yes....initial costs are high but that system should last you many years now......
like you ive spent a few years with DIY hot systems and trying to do things on the cheap........
That’s it daz. 👍
It’s a big purchase, but it’s going to last me many many years.
I’m at the stage where I want the easiest work day as possible. Nice hot water definitely helps you in those dark, cold and miserable days we have to sometimes work in.
too right! ;D
BUT!how many other trades spend a lot of money on tools,vans etc?,much more than us window cleaners so a few thousand in the grand scheme of things is nothing long term esp if you have the heater installed in a new(or nearly new)van that your gonna keep for years and years......
Wasting money just because you have it is different to spending money on needed tools, plus why would you get to the new van stage just to end up driving an old one again ? as per usual your comments make little sense.
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
Show us a video of it making a difference ? the same was asked when he was wibbling about Vision, it never appeared so I doubt that will change with this latest nonsense.
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I have the same it’s the landscape cabinet,I have a tank frame with the 2 openings for DI bottles so they placed it on top of them off the floor so it’s bolted to the tank frame. Honestly a great heater the 9kw I have the 2 man as in the pic you get consistent hot water over the 5kw,the 5kw used to be hot but the 9 is piping hot. As for saying using chemicals with cold gives the same results is wrong You need to either see this heater in action or have used 1 to give an honest opinion. There customer service is second to none they have given me everything I’ve asked for.
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They also made me a bespoke stand for my electric reel waist high that takes 2 reels,from pickup to drop off 3 days heater fitted great service imo.
Also Oliver knows the heater inside out unlike other suppliers that sell these.
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Another thing you need to be aware of is that the temp read out on the machine is not the temp you are getting at the brush head,the temp sensor on them is taking a reading from the pipe into the heater. The heater may say 30-40 degrees but the actual temperature at the brush may be 60 degrees upwards,I’ve always had a handheld meter you will need 1.
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
I’ll do that. 👍 I’m havung to finish work earlier these days with the dark nights so I’ve a spare bit of time.
Yeah you can have a separate diesel tank no problem.
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
Show us a video of it making a difference ? the same was asked when he was wibbling about Vision, it never appeared so I doubt that will change with this latest nonsense.
Your a real ray of sunshine aren’t you Sean? ;D
Not really sure how additives and hot water systems are nonsense? I use both now. :)
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Another thing you need to be aware of is that the temp read out on the machine is not the temp you are getting at the brush head,the temp sensor on them is taking a reading from the pipe into the heater. The heater may say 30-40 degrees but the actual temperature at the brush may be 60 degrees upwards,I’ve always had a handheld meter you will need 1.
Yeah that’s it. The temp gauge is basically the coldest part of your system.
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
Show us a video of it making a difference ? the same was asked when he was wibbling about Vision, it never appeared so I doubt that will change with this latest nonsense.
Your a real ray of sunshine aren’t you Sean? ;D
Not really sure how additives and hot water systems are nonsense? I use both now. :)
Why not add PPB to your mix, you know you want to, lol
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That’s why I think Daz keeps going on about getting 25-30 at the brush he’s taking his reading from the gauge on the machine lol,that gauge reads half the real temp out the brush.
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That’s why I think Daz keeps going on about getting 25-30 at the brush he’s taking his reading from the gauge on the machine lol,that gauge reads half the real temp out the brush.
im not stupid nigel!i know the temperature reading on the controller is the reading for the tank probe(monitoring for the frost stat).....im getting 45-60c at the brush head(i have a hand held temperature meter) depending on hose out and ambient air temperature BUT on a freezing cold day with 100m off my reel it drops to 25-30c at brush end because i lose A LOT of heat from my hose......
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I didn’t know you had a hot water system Dazmond. You’ve kept that quiet. Tell me more.
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I didn’t know you had a hot water system Dazmond. You’ve kept that quiet. Tell me more.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
He needs to put in his tag line at the bottom of each post - save typing it every time
Darran
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I didn’t know you had a hot water system Dazmond. You’ve kept that quiet. Tell me more.
hows it going dave? :)
apart from a few sarcastic replies i dont hear much from you on here these days mate......tired of the job?tired of life? ;D
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Dave has a great sense of humour and is very witty - shame some on here don’t see the funny side
Darran
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Dave has a great sense of humour and is very witty - shame some on here don’t see the funny side
Darran
i do!but your getting sarcasm and being witty mixed up smudger! ;D ;D ;D
you cant beat g.griffin......now he should of been a comedian!....he s wasted as a WC! ;D
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
I’ll do that. 👍 I’m havung to finish work earlier these days with the dark nights so I’ve a spare bit of time.
Yeah you can have a separate diesel tank no problem.
nice one.
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
I’ll do that. 👍 I’m havung to finish work earlier these days with the dark nights so I’ve a spare bit of time.
Yeah you can have a separate diesel tank no problem.
nice one.
why do you want a separate tank?you cant run these heaters on RED DIESEL so you might as well have it plumbed into your van tank for ease of use....
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i bet your well happy with that set up jonny!it certainly helps the day along and makes it more comfortable and easier....
yes....initial costs are high but that system should last you many years now......
like you ive spent a few years with DIY hot systems and trying to do things on the cheap........
That’s it daz. 👍
It’s a big purchase, but it’s going to last me many many years.
I’m at the stage where I want the easiest work day as possible. Nice hot water definitely helps you in those dark, cold and miserable days we have to sometimes work in.
too right! ;D
BUT!how many other trades spend a lot of money on tools,vans etc?,much more than us window cleaners so a few thousand in the grand scheme of things is nothing long term esp if you have the heater installed in a new(or nearly new)van that your gonna keep for years and years......
Wasting money just because you have it is different to spending money on needed tools, plus why would you get to the new van stage just to end up driving an old one again ? as per usual your comments make little sense.
its always sour grapes with you isnt it sean? ::)roll
ive drove the old vans and cars with over 100,000 miles on the clock for years(and all the hassle,breakdowns and garage bills),made do with a cold system,barrels,backpack,trolleys,diy hot systems and messing about with gas bottles,etc,etc........
you cant beat a fresh new van and a professionally fitted hot system..... even if i keep the van for 10-15 years itll get nowhere near the 100,000+ miles on the clock of the battered vans i used to drive around in......plus i dont want to be changing my vans and systems every few years because their knackered....
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Don’t worry DaZ green eyes and all that m8
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Don’t worry DaZ green eyes and all that m8
Iv more than enough stupidity to be jealous of other peoples NWH.
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Yeah it sounds like it you only ever comment with sarcasm and what very much appears to be jealousy,you seem to pop up when someone’s doing well with a put down or 2.
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Yeah it sounds like it you only ever comment with sarcasm and what very much appears to be jealousy,you seem to pop up when someone’s doing well with a put down or 2.
Sorry, I thought that was you ? - your quick to brag that you only do £300 quid houses and everyone else are mugs for doing 20 to 25 quid properties
Basically for me and IMO - the diesel is a great item for delivering hot water - however the outlay and then running costs fr outweigh the marginal benefit it has - immersion heater provides 30 to 40 deg hot water for £30 quid - this gives the same benefit in supple hoses etc as the 4k heater - and basically if it gets to lower than minus 3 with ice and snow all around we won't be going out anyway - too much risk with vans and leaving paths to ice over after cleaning
when you buy a hot box for pressure washing from 750 quid I do wonder how much extra grippatank et al have lumped on for professional fitting
I think if it takes off then will we start to see systems in the 1k region - this may then be worth using
Darran
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Yeah it sounds like it you only ever comment with sarcasm and what very much appears to be jealousy,you seem to pop up when someone’s doing well with a put down or 2.
You keep telling yourself that, it all helps. lol
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
I’ll do that. 👍 I’m havung to finish work earlier these days with the dark nights so I’ve a spare bit of time.
Yeah you can have a separate diesel tank no problem.
nice one.
why do you want a separate tank?you cant run these heaters on RED DIESEL so you might as well have it plumbed into your van tank for ease of use....
Daz what on earth is your Mancunian brain on about?
Red diesel?
It’s purely because i change my van around every 3 years so always do as little messing about with it as possible.
Why would you make such an assumption? Good job your a window cleaner mate, cos there ain’t much going on upstairs. 😘
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Soooo ........ why can’t they run off red diesel then? ‘Cos the funny thing is I own a canal boat and the central heating system runs off a Webasto unit. The only fuel being red diesel?? Nobody on a boat would use white diesel at petrol station prices. They must have warranties too.
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Ran my heater on red for the first 5 years of it’s life only down side is the smell if you spill, I prefer it connected to the tank of the van
It’s 15 yeas old now been retired to work part time in a friends van
I’ve use the grippa one as it’s really compact and so much quiter than the old heater
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Soooo ........ why can’t they run off red diesel then? ‘Cos the funny thing is I own a canal boat and the central heating system runs off a Webasto unit. The only fuel being red diesel?? Nobody on a boat would use white diesel at petrol station prices. They must have warranties too.
Red diesel voids the warrante, a friend of mine installs theses heaters in boats and said that there is two types or grades of red diesel used in the marine environment both cause premature failing in the wabasto heater and they recomend using white diesel not red , it seams to depend where the red diesel has come from some is far worse than others , Grippatank state that using red will void the warrante and they can easily tell if it has been run on it , most wabasto dealers - installers will tell you the same thing I phoned several before having my heater put in all said don’t use red as it won’t last long
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Looking good Jonny!
This is where a video would genuinely be helpful, I’m on the fence with forking out for one of these.
Jonny could you do a walk round video of the heater showing it working etc? Also can you use a separate diesel tank? I wouldn’t want to be drawing from the van tank if possible....
I’ll do that. 👍 I’m havung to finish work earlier these days with the dark nights so I’ve a spare bit of time.
Yeah you can have a separate diesel tank no problem.
nice one.
why do you want a separate tank?you cant run these heaters on RED DIESEL so you might as well have it plumbed into your van tank for ease of use....
Daz what on earth is your Mancunian brain on about?
Red diesel?
It’s purely because i change my van around every 3 years so always do as little messing about with it as possible.
Why would you make such an assumption? Good job your a window cleaner mate, cos there ain’t much going on upstairs. 😘
because most window cleaners that ask that question is cos they want to run their heaters on red diesel......
keep your hair on you southern softie! ;D
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Yeah it sounds like it you only ever comment with sarcasm and what very much appears to be jealousy,you seem to pop up when someone’s doing well with a put down or 2.
Sorry, I thought that was you ? - your quick to brag that you only do £300 quid houses and everyone else are mugs for doing 20 to 25 quid properties
Basically for me and IMO - the diesel is a great item for delivering hot water - however the outlay and then running costs fr outweigh the marginal benefit it has - immersion heater provides 30 to 40 deg hot water for £30 quid - this gives the same benefit in supple hoses etc as the 4k heater - and basically if it gets to lower than minus 3 with ice and snow all around we won't be going out anyway - too much risk with vans and leaving paths to ice over after cleaning
when you buy a hot box for pressure washing from 750 quid I do wonder how much extra grippatank et al have lumped on for professional fitting
I think if it takes off then will we start to see systems in the 1k region - this may then be worth using
Darran
it wouldnt be worth their while to fit heaters for 1k IMO.....i cant see it happening anytime soon.....you can go back years on here and find window cleaners saying the same thing.......they ve just gone up and up in price not down.....
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The webasto 9kw heater on its own costs about £1500. That’s before any fitting, heat exchangers, pipework, cabinets etc.
There expensive, but they work very very well.
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Well worth the money.
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The webasto 9kw heater on its own costs about £1500. That’s before any fitting, heat exchangers, pipework, cabinets etc.
There expensive, but they work very very well.
thats my point - £1500 for the boiler. ( thats retail so trade its probably £800 ) - so your paying £2500 for a few bits of pipework and a bit of folded sheet metal and a 'fitter' to screw/bolt things in place
im not knocking that the company wants to make money thats. what were all here for, however somewhere if there becomes a real demand then the boilers will drop in price and people will set up and fit for less money.
currently as I said its not a profitable move to install for the benefits you get in return
Darran
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If you see what goes into putting it together in the cabinet I think you’d have a different opinion,I’ve had a 5kw old style wenasto heater kit turn up in bits,it’s not as easy as you may think and you need a purpose built cabinet for it all to go into correctly
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I cleaned a first clean this week the place was covered in bee spots that are very difficult to remove even traditionally from the summer,hot water WFP made very short work of it came off with ease.
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Reminds me of the trad guys agurment many years ago when the expense of wfp came out ;D
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Big difference between trad and setting up wfp where you instantly double your turn over a day to spending 4K for maybe a 2 to 3% increase in productivity the main advantage seems to be “comfort” - I get that via immersion heating water over night
I used to be in that trade so I know exactly what it takes to knock out a cabinet etc
Darran
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Big difference between trad and setting up wfp where you instantly double your turn over a day to spending 4K for maybe a 2 to 3% increase in productivity the main advantage seems to be “comfort” - I get that via immersion heating water over night
I used to be in that trade so I know exactly what it takes to knock out a cabinet etc
Darran
How do you even measure or notice a 2% to 3% increase, answer is you cant which is why all we get are silly over the top claims, lets be honest all we have here is a must have gadget for guys who want must have gadgets, its nothing to do with business or making money,
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Reminds me of the trad guys agurment many years ago when the expense of wfp came out ;D
You don't get the irony do you, lol
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The biggest difference in trad and WFP is safety, the fact that it is slightly quicker is a bonus, if made no difference to earnings I would still be using it.
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The webasto 9kw heater on its own costs about £1500. That’s before any fitting, heat exchangers, pipework, cabinets etc.
There expensive, but they work very very well.
thats my point - £1500 for the boiler. ( thats retail so trade its probably £800 ) - so your paying £2500 for a few bits of pipework and a bit of folded sheet metal and a 'fitter' to screw/bolt things in place
im not knocking that the company wants to make money thats. what were all here for, however somewhere if there becomes a real demand then the boilers will drop in price and people will set up and fit for less money.
currently as I said its not a profitable move to install for the benefits you get in return
Darran
dont forget 2 x numax batteries and the smart split charge relay that grippa fit with these systems,also £750 was VAT out of the £4500 i paid for mine,also the controllers,cabinet,etc are part of the system.....plus theres the labour,drilling 2 holes through the floor for the air inlet pipe and exhaust....not just anyone can fit these systems......
if you have a fleet of vans like you smudger its probably not financially viable but for the sole trader with a decent round and a new van then its a good investment IMO.......
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The biggest difference in trad and WFP is safety, the fact that it is slightly quicker is a bonus, if made no difference to earnings I would still be using it.
SLIGHTLY QUICKER? ::)roll i still have jobs that used to take me 2 hours on ladders.....i can clean some of them in 40 mins WFP these days so my hourly rate on these jobs is £60-£80 an hour..happy days! 8)
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The main thing is safety 😂 WHAT?,no it ain’t it’s the fact you’ll earn far more money that’s a fact.
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The biggest difference in trad and WFP is safety, the fact that it is slightly quicker is a bonus, if made no difference to earnings I would still be using it.
SLIGHTLY QUICKER? ::)roll i still have jobs that used to take me 2 hours on ladders.....i can clean some of them in 40 mins WFP these days so my hourly rate on these jobs is £60-£80 an hour..happy days! 8)
I agree with Daz😱
It's not slightly quicker for me it's a heck of a lot quicker
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As far as the cabinets go it makes no sense to say I know how much they pay for them,we can’t all go and buy a cabinet I tried to buy 1 off of a supplier once and they refused to sell 1 to me for obvious reasons. As far as 3-4% goes on extra work done I know for a fact that’s nonsense,hot water knocks far more time off jobs than you think regular jobs are silly quick and it makes 3 monthly’s seem like monthly’s time wise.
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after work today i tested the temperature of my water at brush end while i was washing the van.....62c!i couldnt hold my hand under it for more than 2 seconds! ;D
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What flow was that Daz I tested mine yesterday similar temp at the brush not the frost stat 😂
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Get the van washed at the hand wash Daz I get a receipt I claim 5-600 back for getting it washed every week lol.
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Get the van washed at the hand wash Daz I get a receipt I claim 5-600 back for getting it washed every week lol.
Or do it yourself and not spend £600 :D
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Yeah I used to think like that then when my accounts were due I used to get told to sit down while on the phone about to be told my bill,I try and spend what I can now,the amount of Tax I’ve paid when I could of replaced equipment with that money is sickening.
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What flow was that Daz I tested mine yesterday similar temp at the brush not the frost stat 😂
flow was on 50 for washing the van and only had a few metres off the reel....
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As far as the cabinets go it makes no sense to say I know how much they pay for them,we can’t all go and buy a cabinet I tried to buy 1 off of a supplier once and they refused to sell 1 to me for obvious reasons. As far as 3-4% goes on extra work done I know for a fact that’s nonsense,hot water knocks far more time off jobs than you think regular jobs are silly quick and it makes 3 monthly’s seem like monthly’s time wise.
Stop talking nonsense, scrub once rinse once, you cant do any less than that, even having to use a Gardiner scraper on the odd
stubborn bird poo isn't going to make much of a difference time wise.
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Yeah I used to think like that then when my accounts were due I used to get told to sit down while on the phone about to be told my bill,I try and spend what I can now,the amount of Tax I’ve paid when I could of replaced equipment with that money is sickening.
So you are saying you would spend a pound needed or not just to save 20p.
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Get the van washed at the hand wash Daz I get a receipt I claim 5-600 back for getting it washed every week lol.
Or do it yourself and not spend £600 :D
Save £600, that's what he's claiming back so he must be paying around £1900 a year to have his van washed, it makes his window cleaning prices look cheap lol.
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There should be a "talking absolute turd" button ;D
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getting colder next week lads.....
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Im just keeping my wallet in my pocket until I see what Lee Pryor comes up with ;D
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Getting colder by the week now dry clean bbbbbbrrrrrrrr lol,be thinking of you when I’m cracking glass 😂
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Getting colder by the week now dry clean bbbbbbrrrrrrrr lol,be thinking of you when I’m cracking glass 😂
He’s got hot water , he reinstalled his gas heater
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Yep will be cleaning cladding (filthy) for at least 12 hours tomorrow and the same hours on Sunday plus another similar job next weekend, want to see if using hot will help.
Have picked up a lot of commercial work lately which is better paid than my domestic window cleaning, downside is it needs to be cleaned either at night or on weekends.
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Yep will be cleaning cladding (filthy) for at least 12 hours tomorrow and the same hours on Sunday plus another similar job next weekend, want to see if using hot will help.
Have picked up a lot of commercial work lately which is better paid than my domestic window cleaning, downside is it needs to be cleaned either at night or on weekends.
It’s better at weekends, no cars in your way - just put some headphones on and listen to music, before you know it , it’s home time!
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Have you got a flu on your heater
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Yep will be cleaning cladding (filthy) for at least 12 hours tomorrow and the same hours on Sunday plus another similar job next weekend, want to see if using hot will help.
Have picked up a lot of commercial work lately which is better paid than my domestic window cleaning, downside is it needs to be cleaned either at night or on weekends.
Two 12 hour days tomorrow and Sunday and you 'll need a week off to recover! ;D
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Have you got a flu on your heater
Yes its a motorhome heater and because of safety sensors it wont run without a flu.
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Have you got a flu on your heater
Yes its a motorhome heater and because of safety sensors it wont run without a flu.
Have you cut a hole in your van roof? Or vented with door open?
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Yeah I used to think like that then when my accounts were due I used to get told to sit down while on the phone about to be told my bill,I try and spend what I can now,the amount of Tax I’ve paid when I could of replaced equipment with that money is sickening.
Wierd!
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getting colder next week lads.....
In Cheshire over the 10 years I've been using wfp, I've not been able to work because of low temps, in total it adds up to about 2 weeks.
I'm sticking to cold at the mo
If it's too cold to work I'll go to the Canaries
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I wasn’t spending enough money on expenses so I was paying it in income tax,I’d rather have new equipment when I need it rather than just pay it in tax.
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getting colder next week lads.....
In Cheshire over the 10 years I've been using wfp, I've not been able to work because of low temps, in total it adds up to about 2 weeks.
I'm sticking to cold at the mo
If it's too cold to work I'll go to the Canaries
Obviously u were in the canaries during the snow and cold snap of 2010 then! Most of us didn't work for 3 weeks!😃
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I’ve used hot for 6 years now and would never go back to cold, in my view I use hot because of comfort regarding use of the hose .is it worth £4500 then each to their own on that one
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I had 10 barrels frozen solid in the back of my 14 year old kangoo!!🤣🤣🤣
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getting colder next week lads.....
In Cheshire over the 10 years I've been using wfp, I've not been able to work because of low temps, in total it adds up to about 2 weeks.
I'm sticking to cold at the mo
If it's too cold to work I'll go to the Canaries
Obviously u were in the canaries during the snow and cold snap of 2010 then! Most of us didn't work for 3 weeks!😃
I'm very resilient and I've lost about 6 or 7 full days to snow and ice in that 10 years
My jets have iced over 3 or 4 times but I just defrosted them and got on with it
I've never been to the Canaries in my life
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Window cleaning has been my main source of income for the last 15 years so losing 3 solid weeks to bad weather is not on my radar at all
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I wasn’t spending enough money on expenses so I was paying it in income tax,I’d rather have new equipment when I need it rather than just pay it in tax.
Some people don't understand tax. You're one of them.
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Window cleaning has been my main source of income for the last 15 years so losing 3 solid weeks to bad weather is not on my radar at all
I just got fed up of winter determing when I can and can't work. I like to get out early and winter put a stop to that due to most mornings being low temp. I know there are only a 2 or 3 weeks where the temp stays below - 1 all day but its the many many frosty mornings between October and February that seems to stupidly stress me out.
So much easy now I have said goodbye to those stress days thanks to Grippa. I no longer have to worry about it. Worth every penny.
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If warm good money and can’t offset anything against tax it’ll go down as income will it not or an I listening to the wrong advise then.
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the truth is 100m hose is a nightmare in the winter months if your using a cold water set up,at least install an immersion for softer hoses if you cant afford/cant justify spending a few grand on a diesel heater.....
the coldest weather is usually between dec-march.....thats a long 4 months with cold water,also if you install an immersion you can be sure you wont wake up to a frozen system,its a miserable start to your day.......and more chance of you sacking the day off and suffering from low motivation in general.....
as for cheap gas shower heaters...from personal experience i wouldnt recommend them to anyone these days.....IMO its not worth the risk plus they are unreliable and break easily and its a faff changing gas bottles all the time...
if you ve just bought a new/nearly new van and plan to keep it for a long time and are earning well out of your cleaning business then i wouldnt hesitate to recommend a professionally installed diesel heater from grippatank or pure freedom...they really are a joy to use......
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also the other day i had a commercial job to clean(ground floor trad only)....i simply filled my bucket up with piping hot pure water and my detergent of choice and im good to go...i also wash my hands before lunch with anti bacterial liquid soap and hot pure water if im not wearing gloves(and of course if i get cat/dog muck on my hose/hands ::)roll)...its great having hot water.....
the steam coming from your brush and the glass in the cold winter months looks great too and impresses the customers who notice.... ;D
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What has happened with the inside of your head Daz , I reckon all that hot water has poached yer brain ;D
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What has happened with the inside of your head Daz , I reckon all that hot water has poached yer brain ;D
naw!.....its been like that for years rich! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Lovely this morning with the old hot water pumping out the pole,I’ve missed my pole not looking like it’s on fire 🔥 😂
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You’ll go blind!
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Getting colder this week I forgot what steaming hot microbore smelt like lol.
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How much
Not cheap, but worth it. ☺️ Especially in the long run.
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/hydroheat-9kw-hot-water-heater
Does it come with controllers or is that extra
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How much
Not cheap, but worth it. ☺️ Especially in the long run.
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/hydroheat-9kw-hot-water-heater
Does it come with controllers or is that extra
yes it comes with the controllers but the batteries,smart split charge relay,portrait cabinet and fitting is extra...all together your looking at around £4,500(including £750 VAT)....
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Getting colder this week I forgot what steaming hot microbore smelt like lol.
Keep your fetish to yourself😳
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You’ll need to have there mains hookup and b+b chargers,with what I spent in the early part of the year + the heater it cost me around 5k.
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Grippa obviously the way to go. I’m saving up!
Anyone got an idea of the weekly or monthly running cost?
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Grippa obviously the way to go. I’m saving up!
Anyone got an idea of the weekly or monthly running cost?
just slap it on(or part of it) on an interest free credit card mate......
diesel costs for heating my water every day?......£80 a month roughly....i used to put £40 a month into my van,now its £120 so £20 a week on average.
...i only work 5 or 6 hours a day 4 or 5 days a week though and use the heater on full blast all year round.....
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Good man Daz, thanks for that.
About the same running costs as my immersion but Grippa is so much better.
Need to get a decent van to bung it into as well!
Shouldnt be bothered at my age but its like fishing ‘ you always want the best’
Really glad all is good for you mate,
Come Feb/ March you are going to be so cosy.
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Yeah, I’d say £15-20 pr week is about right for me too. I work 4days about 7-8 hrs a day.
Heater on full with another pump trickling into the tank for when customers talk to me or in between jobs, so heater doesn’t shut down.
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Good man Daz, thanks for that.
About the same running costs as my immersion but Grippa is so much better.
Need to get a decent van to bung it into as well!
Shouldnt be bothered at my age but its like fishing ‘ you always want the best’
Really glad all is good for you mate,
Come Feb/ March you are going to be so cosy.
yeh no point having these diesel heaters installed into an old van pal,its a long term investment thing(10+ years)...oh another thing make sure you buy a new van with a heated drivers seat!helps dry you off at lunchtime on cold rainy days(like today!) :)
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How loud are these heaters when firing up during the night
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How loud are these heaters when firing up during the night
not mega loud....... they only fire up on really cold nights for 10 mins at a time....the sound is reassuring! ;D
i love the sound of them.......
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Imagine a jumbo jet firing up.
It’s only like.....half as loud.
;D
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genuine questions...so lets say i was to get one ;D, what sort of temp would you have the water at for days that are roughly 0 - 3 degrees , and what sort of temperature drop is there with say 30m of hose out. And can they keep a steady temperature with a high flow rate and does it help keep your hands warm while using the pole ;D
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if your working on a very cold day with a lot of hose off the reel the water at brush end will be warm but not hot(25c-30c) even with the heater on full blast as the hose will lose half its heat with 100m off...just as well really or you ll increase the risk of thermal shock on some glass...
with just 30m off itll still be hot(around 40c-45c)....with hardly any hose off(say 10m)then itll be 60c at the jets!
in the summer it can be 65c at the jets on a warm day and thats with plenty of hose off the reel!
yes...the pole warms up as well as the hose... :)
theres no such thing as a steady temperature of water out of the jets...it will vary depending on the above,ambient air temperature and the original temperature of the water in the tank to start with.......
this is my findings after using my diesel heater for nearly a year now(one pump,no second one recirculating constantly back to tank)
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Only had mine for about 3 weeks now, but my temperatures are a bit higher than daz. I think it’s because I have mine set up with a second pump constantly recirculating hot water back into the tank.
I can now adjust from Luke warm to scalding hot. Even when I’ve got 100 metres of hose off the reel and about 3 degrees outside, I can get 60 plus degrees at the brush head. (Great for plastics and conservatory roofs but too hot for glass)
I just make sure I keep checking the temp (with my hand) every so often and tweak the heater as necessary.
I’m Realising now that although thermal shock can happen, it’s very rare, and if a window is fitted properly it should be fine. I’m a lot less worried now. Worse case scenario that I break a window I will pay the £60-80 for a glazier to fix it. Not the end of the world.
What I would say though....if you are a one man band, then the 5kw will be plenty if you just want it for general window cleaning. You’ll have nice hot water no matter what the conditions.
I got the 9kw because there are sometimes two of us out, and I wanted the option to have really really hot for plastic cleans and facias etc.
For general window cleaning I never run my 9kw on full heat.
I run pump 2 (that’s recycling hot water back to the tank) on full heat, and the pump on my side on about half heat. This gives me 50 degrees at the brush head with about 30-50 metres of hose off the reel which I find is the standard amount for me, and is so warm that it’s uncomfortable to keep your hand under the jets for more than 10 seconds.
If I was cleaning delicate glass, I would turn my side right down and it would be just warm.
The plus side for me running my set up like this, is that at about 1 or 2 pm I power down the heater because I’ve got 55 degree water in my tank. That’s enough to give nice hot water for the rest of the working day.
Once you get used to how these heaters work you will love them.
I was cleaning a big residential care home yesterday which is nearly all traditional, (windows turn in and get cleaned along with the insides) and the last hour and a half is WFP pole work. Usually that last hour as horrible because you’ve been in the warm all day, and then you have to go out in the freezing cold. ( it was 3 degrees here hesterday)
Yesterday it was awesome. Warm pole, warm hands, windows were so easy to clean, even the ones next to trees and bushes which for the past 8 weeks had been getting battered by a few storms.
I’m enjoying windowc cleaning again.
;D 🔥
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mines hot enough for me.....just be careful jonny with having a second pump recirculating back to the tank on a cold day....if your getting 50c-60c at the jets when its 3c outside your asking for trouble on glass IMO........
its 3c here this morning and my first job of the day is booked in for 930am.its a large house so ill have 70m or so off the reel.brush end itll be around 40c and even at that temperature the glass will look like its on fire! ;D
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i dont touch the temperature dial...it stays on full all year round.....oliver at grippa told me its the best way to run these heaters.....
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i dont touch the temperature dial...it stays on full all year round.....oliver at grippa told me its the best way to run these heaters.....
I had a similar chat, but he explained what the temperature gauge does, all it does is alter the ratio of coolant to water in the heat exchanger. It has no negative effects on the heater running it cooler. Only negative is that your heater might go into shutdown mode more often as the coolant will get hotter quicker. For me though using the second pump recirculating gets rid of that issue.
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mines hot enough for me.....just be careful jonny with having a second pump recirculating back to the tank on a cold day....if your getting 50c-60c at the jets when its 3c outside your asking for trouble on glass IMO........
its 3c here this morning and my first job of the day is booked in for 930am.its a large house so ill have 70m or so off the reel.brush end itll be around 40c and even at that temperature the glass will look like its on fire! ;D
I only have 50 degrees at the brush head max, that’s all I think You need, any more than that on glass and I think it’s unnecessary to be honest.
When temperatures are low I can tweak the valve and have a constant 30 degrees at the brush head. That’s fine for me In the winter.
I can just vary it as I feel fit though.
I reckon if I ran my heater on max I’d be getting 70 degrees out of it easlily. Way too hot.
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mines hot enough for me.....just be careful jonny with having a second pump recirculating back to the tank on a cold day....if your getting 50c-60c at the jets when its 3c outside your asking for trouble on glass IMO........
its 3c here this morning and my first job of the day is booked in for 930am.its a large house so ill have 70m or so off the reel.brush end itll be around 40c and even at that temperature the glass will look like its on fire! ;D
I only have 50 degrees at the brush head max, that’s all I think You need, any more than that on glass and I think it’s unnecessary to be honest.
When temperatures are low I can tweak the valve and have a constant 30 degrees at the brush head. That’s fine for me In the winter.
I can just vary it as I feel fit though.
I reckon if I ran my heater on max I’d be getting 70 degrees out of it easlily. Way too hot.
in summer youll get 60c-65c at brush end on a warm day.....its great for cleaning at these temperatures jonny,the pollen,fly spots,bird muck,snail trails,etc just melt off virtually straight away and the windows dry super quick....
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mines hot enough for me.....just be careful jonny with having a second pump recirculating back to the tank on a cold day....if your getting 50c-60c at the jets when its 3c outside your asking for trouble on glass IMO........
its 3c here this morning and my first job of the day is booked in for 930am.its a large house so ill have 70m or so off the reel.brush end itll be around 40c and even at that temperature the glass will look like its on fire! ;D
I only have 50 degrees at the brush head max, that’s all I think You need, any more than that on glass and I think it’s unnecessary to be honest.
When temperatures are low I can tweak the valve and have a constant 30 degrees at the brush head. That’s fine for me In the winter.
I can just vary it as I feel fit though.
I reckon if I ran my heater on max I’d be getting 70 degrees out of it easlily. Way too hot.
in summer youll get 60c-65c at brush end on a warm day.....its great for cleaning at these temperatures jonny,the pollen,fly spots,bird muck,snail trails,etc just melt off virtually straight away and the windows dry super quick....
I’ve been using those temps mate. Can easily get that now if I turn the dial up. :)
I just find 50 the same. In summer I will crank it up though. Currently on minimum I’m getting 40 degrees at the brush head. It’s 4 degrees here.
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Impossible for me to use mine flat out hot on some of my jobs I’d be cracking left right and centre.
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mines hot enough for me.....just be careful jonny with having a second pump recirculating back to the tank on a cold day....if your getting 50c-60c at the jets when its 3c outside your asking for trouble on glass IMO........
its 3c here this morning and my first job of the day is booked in for 930am.its a large house so ill have 70m or so off the reel.brush end itll be around 40c and even at that temperature the glass will look like its on fire! ;D
I only have 50 degrees at the brush head max, that’s all I think You need, any more than that on glass and I think it’s unnecessary to be honest.
When temperatures are low I can tweak the valve and have a constant 30 degrees at the brush head. That’s fine for me In the winter.
I can just vary it as I feel fit though.
I reckon if I ran my heater on max I’d be getting 70 degrees out of it easlily. Way too hot.
in summer youll get 60c-65c at brush end on a warm day.....its great for cleaning at these temperatures jonny,the pollen,fly spots,bird muck,snail trails,etc just melt off virtually straight away and the windows dry super quick....
If you don’t mind me asking Daz, and this isn’t a question regarding the safety of gas heaters, what temp were you getting at the brush head with your gas heater? Just you said when you ripped it out that it didn’t have any real cleaning benefits and you were no quicker. I’m failing to understand how your diesel heated hot water gives you all these benefits you mention, yet your gas heated hot water made no difference.
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When I had an L5 heater it was boiling hot.
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mines hot enough for me.....just be careful jonny with having a second pump recirculating back to the tank on a cold day....if your getting 50c-60c at the jets when its 3c outside your asking for trouble on glass IMO........
its 3c here this morning and my first job of the day is booked in for 930am.its a large house so ill have 70m or so off the reel.brush end itll be around 40c and even at that temperature the glass will look like its on fire! ;D
I only have 50 degrees at the brush head max, that’s all I think You need, any more than that on glass and I think it’s unnecessary to be honest.
When temperatures are low I can tweak the valve and have a constant 30 degrees at the brush head. That’s fine for me In the winter.
I can just vary it as I feel fit though.
I reckon if I ran my heater on max I’d be getting 70 degrees out of it easlily. Way too hot.
in summer youll get 60c-65c at brush end on a warm day.....its great for cleaning at these temperatures jonny,the pollen,fly spots,bird muck,snail trails,etc just melt off virtually straight away and the windows dry super quick....
If you don’t mind me asking Daz, and this isn’t a question regarding the safety of gas heaters, what temp were you getting at the brush head with your gas heater? Just you said when you ripped it out that it didn’t have any real cleaning benefits and you were no quicker. I’m failing to understand how your diesel heated hot water gives you all these benefits you mention, yet your gas heated hot water made no difference.
the problem was the gas heaters(L5/L10)were unreliable,i had endless problems with back pressure,burst hoses,calibration problems,changing gas bottles was a faff,flame going out on a windy day lots of times,running out of gas on that filthy first clean or add on job,forgetting to drain heater on a cold night and breaking it... ::)roll
i would get 40c at brush head when it was working properly but the extra faffing about negated any time saved....
with the diesel heater i just press a button and away i go...thats it! :)
NO changing gas bottles!
NO flame going out on a windy day!
NO back pressure problems or calibration issues
NO explosions!
NO need to remember to put an oil filled radiator in the back of my van on freezing nights
NO need to remember to drain the heater down either....
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i was kidding myself...hot water allows for a much easier,comfortable working day just like electric reels and xtreme poles.put all 3 together and you ve got the best cleaning system for demolishing your worklists......
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Impossible for me to use mine flat out hot on some of my jobs I’d be cracking left right and centre.
Me too.
I turned mine off at 2pm today and the last two hours of work it was like I was steam cleaning.
I’d definitely recommend getting a second pump fitted if you can.
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Only had mine for about 3 weeks now, but my temperatures are a bit higher than daz. I think it’s because I have mine set up with a second pump constantly recirculating hot water back into the tank.
I can now adjust from Luke warm to scalding hot. Even when I’ve got 100 metres of hose off the reel and about 3 degrees outside, I can get 60 plus degrees at the brush head. (Great for plastics and conservatory roofs but too hot for glass)
I just make sure I keep checking the temp (with my hand) every so often and tweak the heater as necessary.
I’m Realising now that although thermal shock can happen, it’s very rare, and if a window is fitted properly it should be fine. I’m a lot less worried now. Worse case scenario that I break a window I will pay the £60-80 for a glazier to fix it. Not the end of the world.
What I would say though....if you are a one man band, then the 5kw will be plenty if you just want it for general window cleaning. You’ll have nice hot water no matter what the conditions.
I got the 9kw because there are sometimes two of us out, and I wanted the option to have really really hot for plastic cleans and facias etc.
For general window cleaning I never run my 9kw on full heat.
I run pump 2 (that’s recycling hot water back to the tank) on full heat, and the pump on my side on about half heat. This gives me 50 degrees at the brush head with about 30-50 metres of hose off the reel which I find is the standard amount for me, and is so warm that it’s uncomfortable to keep your hand under the jets for more than 10 seconds.
If I was cleaning delicate glass, I would turn my side right down and it would be just warm.
The plus side for me running my set up like this, is that at about 1 or 2 pm I power down the heater because I’ve got 55 degree water in my tank. That’s enough to give nice hot water for the rest of the working day.
Once you get used to how these heaters work you will love them.
I was cleaning a big residential care home yesterday which is nearly all traditional, (windows turn in and get cleaned along with the insides) and the last hour and a half is WFP pole work. Usually that last hour as horrible because you’ve been in the warm all day, and then you have to go out in the freezing cold. ( it was 3 degrees here hesterday)
Yesterday it was awesome. Warm pole, warm hands, windows were so easy to clean, even the ones next to trees and bushes which for the past 8 weeks had been getting battered by a few storms.
I’m enjoying windowc cleaning again.
;D 🔥
Thanks for that mate, a nice realistic overview of the system. I think for what they cost an extra 500 for the 9kw is the better option also i would of thought with the 1 man version you wouldn't be able to run a second pump on it. My thoughts would be to run it like you do..anyway bit the bullet and getting one fitted at the end of next month ;D they are expensive but it will last me for the rest of my window cleaning days.
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i was kidding myself...hot water allows for a much easier,comfortable working day just like electric reels and xtreme poles.put all 3 together and you ve got the best cleaning system for demolishing your worklists......
what are you on about you can’t beat a non speed lined van full of rust cold water setup wires and pole spares everywhere the odd bucket wet cloths chucked about,p poor freezing cold in the morning with the front window steamed up.
When your at this level you can be pleased with yourself Daz 😂
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Only had mine for about 3 weeks now, but my temperatures are a bit higher than daz. I think it’s because I have mine set up with a second pump constantly recirculating hot water back into the tank.
I can now adjust from Luke warm to scalding hot. Even when I’ve got 100 metres of hose off the reel and about 3 degrees outside, I can get 60 plus degrees at the brush head. (Great for plastics and conservatory roofs but too hot for glass)
I just make sure I keep checking the temp (with my hand) every so often and tweak the heater as necessary.
I’m Realising now that although thermal shock can happen, it’s very rare, and if a window is fitted properly it should be fine. I’m a lot less worried now. Worse case scenario that I break a window I will pay the £60-80 for a glazier to fix it. Not the end of the world.
What I would say though....if you are a one man band, then the 5kw will be plenty if you just want it for general window cleaning. You’ll have nice hot water no matter what the conditions.
I got the 9kw because there are sometimes two of us out, and I wanted the option to have really really hot for plastic cleans and facias etc.
For general window cleaning I never run my 9kw on full heat.
I run pump 2 (that’s recycling hot water back to the tank) on full heat, and the pump on my side on about half heat. This gives me 50 degrees at the brush head with about 30-50 metres of hose off the reel which I find is the standard amount for me, and is so warm that it’s uncomfortable to keep your hand under the jets for more than 10 seconds.
If I was cleaning delicate glass, I would turn my side right down and it would be just warm.
The plus side for me running my set up like this, is that at about 1 or 2 pm I power down the heater because I’ve got 55 degree water in my tank. That’s enough to give nice hot water for the rest of the working day.
Once you get used to how these heaters work you will love them.
I was cleaning a big residential care home yesterday which is nearly all traditional, (windows turn in and get cleaned along with the insides) and the last hour and a half is WFP pole work. Usually that last hour as horrible because you’ve been in the warm all day, and then you have to go out in the freezing cold. ( it was 3 degrees here hesterday)
Yesterday it was awesome. Warm pole, warm hands, windows were so easy to clean, even the ones next to trees and bushes which for the past 8 weeks had been getting battered by a few storms.
I’m enjoying windowc cleaning again.
;D 🔥
Thanks for that mate, a nice realistic overview of the system. I think for what they cost an extra 500 for the 9kw is the better option also i would of thought with the 1 man version you wouldn't be able to run a second pump on it. My thoughts would be to run it like you do..anyway bit the bullet and getting one fitted at the end of next month ;D they are expensive but it will last me for the rest of my window cleaning days.
you wont regret it......esp if you ve had DIY gas shower heaters in the past....diesel heaters are the best if you want hot water on tap every day with minimal faff..... :)
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Have you told your girlfriend about your diesel heater Daz😱😱😱
She might be jealous
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Quick question .....5 kw and 9 kw how do they differ as I can only see 1 model of thermotop , is it 2 plate exchangers as opposed to 1 or is it a larger plate exchanger , or is there more than 1 model of thermotop ?
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The 9kw produces hotter water more consistently I’ve had the 5kw heater and it was hot enough for window cleaning,the 9kw will give you above 50-60degrees even with a high flow of water 70-80 on the controller. I still use a high flow of water even when the water is that hot,if you get 1 get the 9kw it’s setup for 2 man system and like I say gives water hot enough to clean anything.
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Quick question .....5 kw and 9 kw how do they differ as I can only see 1 model of thermotop , is it 2 plate exchangers as opposed to 1 or is it a larger plate exchanger , or is there more than 1 model of thermotop ?
The 5 and 9 are totally different units.
The 9kw is a thermo pro 90.
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So 5 kw is thermotop c
And 9 kw is thermo pro 90
Thanks for that !
Next question is .... What is the temp of the coolant before it goes into the heat exchanger and what sort of Lpm it pumps it at ?
I’m just having another of my brainwaves in DIY world 😁
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You have to base it on the pump your using I think my pump is max 5.9lts a minute.
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So 5 kw is thermotop c
And 9 kw is thermo pro 90
Thanks for that !
Next question is .... What is the temp of the coolant before it goes into the heat exchanger and what sort of Lpm it pumps it at ?
I’m just having another of my brainwaves in DIY world 😁
Here's the inside of a Purefreedom 5kw diesel heater.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1542895469_Diesel Hot water system .jpg)
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That’s the same as my old heater that 5kw let me know if you want to buy all those internals,they are less than a year old including the fuel pump which is £300 itself.
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So 5 kw is thermotop c
And 9 kw is thermo pro 90
Thanks for that !
Next question is .... What is the temp of the coolant before it goes into the heat exchanger and what sort of Lpm it pumps it at ?
I’m just having another of my brainwaves in DIY world 😁
5 years ago I thought about making my own version with a few additions of my own.
So I put this together with the view of then fitting it into a box.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1542896361_DSCF0551b.jpg)
Firstly the diesel heater is a Thermo Top C and its a universal variant. A diesel heater from a Rover 75 will work as will one from a Citroen C5 and C8. The universal units are available ex narrow boat and yachts. Mine came from a refurbisher.
Vehicle specifical Thermo Tops for BMW and others that integrate into the vehicles Canbus do not work, no matter what the Ebay sellers say. (I'v got a BMW one here in the garage that doesn't work.)
You will need a wiring harness, a fuel pump and in some cases a water pump. A 1531 controller is also a plus although cheaper digital controllers or a standard on/off switch will work.
When I played around with this the water temperature in the tank was 9 degrees. With the heater working flat out the temperature at the brush head was 35 degrees after 100 meters of hose, most of which was coiled on the hose reel. The water leaving the heat exchanger to go back to the boiler via the header was cold. That heat exchanger zapped every scrap of heat from the hot water.
I was running my pump at 3 on my Varistream which was around 1.5lpm with cold water. Hot water flows quicker through the hose so 3 on my Varistream would been more lpm but I didn't measure it.
I believed that 5kw would support heating 2 hose reels. According to the calculator I used, raising 1.5lpm of water through 26 degrees should have only used 2.65kw, so the rest of the heat was being lost, mainly through the exhaust. That put me off a bit.
The idea of the 3rd heat exchanger was to connect it up to a third pump that would be controlled using a digital temperature controller. This was my automatic control solution to ensure the furnace remained running when I stopped to chat to people.
The cycle of a Thermo Top C is that it takes around 90 seconds to fully start. It will burn on full heat mode until the water its heating gets up to 74 degrees C. At 74 degrees the heater goes into half heat mode. Once the temperature of the heated water reaches 77 degrees the heater goes in power down mode, which takes around 90 seconds.
Now if you start to draw heat from the heating circuit when the water is 75 degrees, the heater will stay in half heat mode until it drops to 68 degrees C is memory serves me. So the idea was to program the digital controller to kick a pump in at 75 degrees and switch it off at 70 degrees C and bleed that hot water into the tank.
The problem with diesel heaters is getting them out of heating sync. So if I talked to a customer for a while and the heater went into its shutdown cycle I would have to wait for at least 3 minutes before the heater switched off and then restarted. By then the water at the brush head was cold as I had zapped all the heat from it and because I'm still working the temperature will take a long time before it starts to heat the water up. I will probably have completed the next house using mainly cold water. Once I stop working the heater then has a chance to catch up. This will probably mean the heater again goes into shutdown mode. This is the reason why NWH and a few others redirect the water to the tank on route to the next customer.
These things are primarily engine preheaters. So they start and warm up the coolant in the engine block. When the temperature of the coolant water reaches 30 degrees the unit will switch on the internal blower motor so defrosting the windscreen and warming the cabin. This process will take around 30 minutes, so the programmer will switch off after 30 minutes unless you set it to stay on longer. The heater shuts off at 77 degrees C as that is before the vehicles cooling thermostat starts to open.
Its pointless pumping that hot water through the radiator to be cooled by it.
.
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i never let my heater shut down during the day spruce....i fire it up just after i start the van first thing in the morning and turn it off just after the last job of the day.....i plug back into the tank when driving from job to job,lunch time and if a customer makes me a brew....
ive been told its best to run them flat out all day every day to avoid premature coking up of the burner...i dont know how true this is but i do it anyway......
mines the thermo pro 90.......
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If anyone wants to buy my cabinet they can build there own it has room for 2 plates exchangers making it a 1 or 2 man lol.
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Only had mine for about 3 weeks now, but my temperatures are a bit higher than daz. I think it’s because I have mine set up with a second pump constantly recirculating hot water back into the tank.
I can now adjust from Luke warm to scalding hot. Even when I’ve got 100 metres of hose off the reel and about 3 degrees outside, I can get 60 plus degrees at the brush head. (Great for plastics and conservatory roofs but too hot for glass)
I just make sure I keep checking the temp (with my hand) every so often and tweak the heater as necessary.
I’m Realising now that although thermal shock can happen, it’s very rare, and if a window is fitted properly it should be fine. I’m a lot less worried now. Worse case scenario that I break a window I will pay the £60-80 for a glazier to fix it. Not the end of the world.
What I would say though....if you are a one man band, then the 5kw will be plenty if you just want it for general window cleaning. You’ll have nice hot water no matter what the conditions.
I got the 9kw because there are sometimes two of us out, and I wanted the option to have really really hot for plastic cleans and facias etc.
For general window cleaning I never run my 9kw on full heat.
I run pump 2 (that’s recycling hot water back to the tank) on full heat, and the pump on my side on about half heat. This gives me 50 degrees at the brush head with about 30-50 metres of hose off the reel which I find is the standard amount for me, and is so warm that it’s uncomfortable to keep your hand under the jets for more than 10 seconds.
If I was cleaning delicate glass, I would turn my side right down and it would be just warm.
The plus side for me running my set up like this, is that at about 1 or 2 pm I power down the heater because I’ve got 55 degree water in my tank. That’s enough to give nice hot water for the rest of the working day.
Once you get used to how these heaters work you will love them.
I was cleaning a big residential care home yesterday which is nearly all traditional, (windows turn in and get cleaned along with the insides) and the last hour and a half is WFP pole work. Usually that last hour as horrible because you’ve been in the warm all day, and then you have to go out in the freezing cold. ( it was 3 degrees here hesterday)
Yesterday it was awesome. Warm pole, warm hands, windows were so easy to clean, even the ones next to trees and bushes which for the past 8 weeks had been getting battered by a few storms.
I’m enjoying windowc cleaning again.
;D 🔥
Thanks for that mate, a nice realistic overview of the system. I think for what they cost an extra 500 for the 9kw is the better option also i would of thought with the 1 man version you wouldn't be able to run a second pump on it. My thoughts would be to run it like you do..anyway bit the bullet and getting one fitted at the end of next month ;D they are expensive but it will last me for the rest of my window cleaning days.
Are you able to run a lead out to your van to charge the batteries overnight? I do not think you can rely on a split charge relay to top the batteries up enough on its own.
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If you buy 1 of these heaters 5-9kw you will need the mains hookup that grippa fit,it’s a 3 pin plug I have 1 attached to the side of the outside of my van so when it needs a charge I plug in overnight come out in the morning and unplug and ready to go for another couple of weeks.
Like I say you do need this or you will have to unclip and carry 2 batteries indoors to charge,if you don’t do as much driving as me you’ll be doing it often with these heaters. Since I’ve had this fitted I’ve never had battery issues,add another 1000 onto the heater price though.
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Only had mine for about 3 weeks now, but my temperatures are a bit higher than daz. I think it’s because I have mine set up with a second pump constantly recirculating hot water back into the tank.
I can now adjust from Luke warm to scalding hot. Even when I’ve got 100 metres of hose off the reel and about 3 degrees outside, I can get 60 plus degrees at the brush head. (Great for plastics and conservatory roofs but too hot for glass)
I just make sure I keep checking the temp (with my hand) every so often and tweak the heater as necessary.
I’m Realising now that although thermal shock can happen, it’s very rare, and if a window is fitted properly it should be fine. I’m a lot less worried now. Worse case scenario that I break a window I will pay the £60-80 for a glazier to fix it. Not the end of the world.
What I would say though....if you are a one man band, then the 5kw will be plenty if you just want it for general window cleaning. You’ll have nice hot water no matter what the conditions.
I got the 9kw because there are sometimes two of us out, and I wanted the option to have really really hot for plastic cleans and facias etc.
For general window cleaning I never run my 9kw on full heat.
I run pump 2 (that’s recycling hot water back to the tank) on full heat, and the pump on my side on about half heat. This gives me 50 degrees at the brush head with about 30-50 metres of hose off the reel which I find is the standard amount for me, and is so warm that it’s uncomfortable to keep your hand under the jets for more than 10 seconds.
If I was cleaning delicate glass, I would turn my side right down and it would be just warm.
The plus side for me running my set up like this, is that at about 1 or 2 pm I power down the heater because I’ve got 55 degree water in my tank. That’s enough to give nice hot water for the rest of the working day.
Once you get used to how these heaters work you will love them.
I was cleaning a big residential care home yesterday which is nearly all traditional, (windows turn in and get cleaned along with the insides) and the last hour and a half is WFP pole work. Usually that last hour as horrible because you’ve been in the warm all day, and then you have to go out in the freezing cold. ( it was 3 degrees here hesterday)
Yesterday it was awesome. Warm pole, warm hands, windows were so easy to clean, even the ones next to trees and bushes which for the past 8 weeks had been getting battered by a few storms.
I’m enjoying windowc cleaning again.
;D 🔥
Thanks for that mate, a nice realistic overview of the system. I think for what they cost an extra 500 for the 9kw is the better option also i would of thought with the 1 man version you wouldn't be able to run a second pump on it. My thoughts would be to run it like you do..anyway bit the bullet and getting one fitted at the end of next month ;D they are expensive but it will last me for the rest of my window cleaning days.
Are you able to run a lead out to your van to charge the batteries overnight? I do not think you can rely on a split charge relay to top the batteries up enough on its own.
Hi dd hope all is well..yes i will bench charge it as well. Have a 20 amp mains charger that i will leave in the van. Also my dad has a nearly new stirling 30amp battery to battery charger that he used to use and doesn't want anymore so luckily saved a few £ there.
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Hi Paul
Yes I am well. Things must be going well for you as you are taking the plunge to go hot. Good luck with it all.
Best wishes, David
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Hi Paul
Yes I am well. Things must be going well for you as you are taking the plunge to go hot. Good luck with it all.
Best wishes, David
To be honest mate i've toyed with the idea for a couple of winters now, im unable to fit a heater element and i can't really leave extension cables out during the night to keep the van from freezing up and at the age now i cant be bothered with the hassle of unfreezing pumps and hoses in the mornings..anything to make my working day easier now, dont think ill really use it in the summer for everyday jobs but i do some third floor commercial and a few other jobs were it will make it a bit easier.
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If you buy 1 of these heaters 5-9kw you will need the mains hookup that grippa fit,it’s a 3 pin plug I have 1 attached to the side of the outside of my van so when it needs a charge I plug in overnight come out in the morning and unplug and ready to go for another couple of weeks.
Like I say you do need this or you will have to unclip and carry 2 batteries indoors to charge,if you don’t do as much driving as me you’ll be doing it often with these heaters. Since I’ve had this fitted I’ve never had battery issues,add another 1000 onto the heater price though.
you dont need a 3 pin plug socket on the side of your van,just a decent commercial charger like the numax 20amp "connect and forget"(you can buy them for around £100) and plug in using a normal extension lead......
i charge mine overnight every night to keep them in good condition,also if the frost stat kicks in a few times then it takes a little out of the batteries which then is easily topped up before i start work... :)
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Spruce , this is what made me think of trying my own , but I see that you have already been there and done it , looks like too much of a headache to me :o
But i see that this guys shut down at temp too , although not completely it seems , who knows ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfPMQw3toU
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It’s hassle Daz I have an outside socket on my house I just run the cable into the side of the van m8 it takes 30 seconds I go in and forget about it. I wanted a no hassle setup I don’t have to go into the van at all to charge batteries.
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Spruce , this is what made me think of trying my own , but I see that you have already been there and done it , looks like too much of a headache to me :o
But i see that this guys shut down at temp too , although not completely it seems , who knows ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfPMQw3toU
I saw that a while back. Unfortunately those guys were so busy talking rubbish beating their chests in triumph that they never noticed the unit going into half heat mode. Even although the heater goes into shut down mode the water pump still continues to circulate water through the system. Its on standby mode. The pump will only stop circulating water when the unit is switched off.
When they added cold water to the bucket the boiler went into power up mode when the water's temperature dropped to 69 degrees C. Now when window cleaning, we would zap most of the heat from that bucket of water before the boiler had completely powered up again.
And this is when a small boiler would battle. You will be zapping all the heat from the boiler and the boiler just isn't powerful enough to put in extra to add heat back into reserve.
The Peugeot 807 heater is the same heater that fits the Citroen C8 as it is the same vehicle. The problem with that heater is that it sits under the car and collects all the road muck off the wheels. The Rover 75 heater mounts up in the engine bay and is in a much better environment.
Eberspacher has a new 12kw hydronic diesel heater. That could be an interesting option as it doesn't use that much more fuel than the 9kw.
If I had the energy I would like to fit my Thermo Top C into the new (for me) Boxer van that I have waiting in the wings. I would put it back to being an engine block heater as well as a defroster.
I have a diesel air heater in my current van and it works well, but it doesn't warm the engine as well as the cabin which is something I would like.
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Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.
These new wave heaters are different to the old.
One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.
Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.
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Yeah I used to think like that then when my accounts were due I used to get told to sit down while on the phone about to be told my bill,I try and spend what I can now,the amount of Tax I’ve paid when I could of replaced equipment with that money is sickening.
So you are saying you would spend a pound needed or not just to save 20p.
;D
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Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.
These new wave heaters are different to the old.
One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.
Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.
Have you got a link to these new wave heaters you are refering to please?
Looking at Daz's photo of his unit, its exactly the same 9kw Webasto as its always been. A diesel heater needs a hot glow plug and time to ignite the diesel. It also needs a shutdown period where it cools the combustion chamber down and stops the introduction of fuel into the burner unit and burns off any residue fuel still inside the burner. It isn't like a gas boiler that has instant ignition and can be switched off instantly either.
Webasto have a new range of Thermo Top Evo's, 3, 4 & 5. The 5 produces the same output as the Thermo top C and the 3 about half the heat output. The smallest unit probably would work best on a coach as it would just need to heat a small calorifier. But then there is also the facility of a water to water plate heat exchanger added to the bus's cooling system to provide heat for washbasin use. As long as the bus's engine is warm, you will have warm water.
The new Thermo Top Evos look like an evolution of the Eberspacher hydronic heater. Webasto bought out Eberspacher a few years ago.
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If you buy 1 of these heaters 5-9kw you will need the mains hookup that grippa fit,it’s a 3 pin plug I have 1 attached to the side of the outside of my van so when it needs a charge I plug in overnight come out in the morning and unplug and ready to go for another couple of weeks.
Like I say you do need this or you will have to unclip and carry 2 batteries indoors to charge,if you don’t do as much driving as me you’ll be doing it often with these heaters. Since I’ve had this fitted I’ve never had battery issues,add another 1000 onto the heater price though.
you dont need a 3 pin plug socket on the side of your van,just a decent commercial charger like the numax 20amp "connect and forget"(you can buy them for around £100) and plug in using a normal extension lead......
i charge mine overnight every night to keep them in good condition,also if the frost stat kicks in a few times then it takes a little out of the batteries which then is easily topped up before i start work... :)
I will do the same I'm sure that extra couple of seconds to open a door won't be to much hassle ;D, plus I will save a £1000 on fitting a plug ::)roll ;D
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I had a mains charger with split charge from grippa,you would be surprised there’s a lot of work involved running wires etc he came at 9 and didn’t leave till about 7,worked flat out like I say I just want to plug in and go indoors sod lifting batteries about I was doing that.
It’s all about making the job as easy as possible for me I don’t reel in anymore and I use poles no heavier than a snooker cue that’ll donme thanks.
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Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.
These new wave heaters are different to the old.
One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.
Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.
Have you got a link to these new wave heaters you are refering to please?
Looking at Daz's photo of his unit, its exactly the same 9kw Webasto as its always been. A diesel heater needs a hot glow plug and time to ignite the diesel. It also needs a shutdown period where it cools the combustion chamber down and stops the introduction of fuel into the burner unit and burns off any residue fuel still inside the burner. It isn't like a gas boiler that has instant ignition and can be switched off instantly either.
Webasto have a new range of Thermo Top Evo's, 3, 4 & 5. The 5 produces the same output as the Thermo top C and the 3 about half the heat output. The smallest unit probably would work best on a coach as it would just need to heat a small calorifier. But then there is also the facility of a water to water plate heat exchanger added to the bus's cooling system to provide heat for washbasin use. As long as the bus's engine is warm, you will have warm water.
The new Thermo Top Evos look like an evolution of the Eberspacher hydronic heater. Webasto bought out Eberspacher a few years ago.
I’m Just going by the conversation I had with the engineers mate.
Im pretty sure when I looked into these a while ago, the units have been updated. Have you always been able to plug into the units and get full diagnostics? You can now.
https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-uk/product-overview/product/show/thermo-pro-90-1/
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Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.
These new wave heaters are different to the old.
One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.
Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.
Have you got a link to these new wave heaters you are refering to please?
Looking at Daz's photo of his unit, its exactly the same 9kw Webasto as its always been. A diesel heater needs a hot glow plug and time to ignite the diesel. It also needs a shutdown period where it cools the combustion chamber down and stops the introduction of fuel into the burner unit and burns off any residue fuel still inside the burner. It isn't like a gas boiler that has instant ignition and can be switched off instantly either.
Webasto have a new range of Thermo Top Evo's, 3, 4 & 5. The 5 produces the same output as the Thermo top C and the 3 about half the heat output. The smallest unit probably would work best on a coach as it would just need to heat a small calorifier. But then there is also the facility of a water to water plate heat exchanger added to the bus's cooling system to provide heat for washbasin use. As long as the bus's engine is warm, you will have warm water.
The new Thermo Top Evos look like an evolution of the Eberspacher hydronic heater. Webasto bought out Eberspacher a few years ago.
I’m Just going by the conversation I had with the engineers mate.
Im pretty sure when I looked into these a while ago, the units have been updated. Have you always been able to plug into the units and get full diagnostics? You can now.
https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-uk/product-overview/product/show/thermo-pro-90-1/
Mine is now 4 years old and you can plug that into diagnostics will give a full read out of everything it’s done and hours run Oliver did show me some of it quite intresting actually
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I had a mains charger with split charge from grippa,you would be surprised there’s a lot of work involved running wires etc he came at 9 and didn’t leave till about 7,worked flat out like I say I just want to plug in and go indoors sod lifting batteries about I was doing that.
It’s all about making the job as easy as possible for me I don’t reel in anymore and I use poles no heavier than a snooker cue that’ll donme thanks.
you dont have to take the batteries out!just connect the charger to ONE battery(it charges them both up)that are down the side of my tank,plug into extension lead and bobs your uncle....it takes less than a min....
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I had a mains charger with split charge from grippa,you would be surprised there’s a lot of work involved running wires etc he came at 9 and didn’t leave till about 7,worked flat out like I say I just want to plug in and go indoors sod lifting batteries about I was doing that.
It’s all about making the job as easy as possible for me I don’t reel in anymore and I use poles no heavier than a snooker cue that’ll donme thanks.
you dont have to take the batteries out!just connect the charger to ONE battery(it charges them both up)that are down the side of my tank,plug into extension lead and bobs your uncle....it takes less than a min....
Yes, but it reduces NWH's tax bill, and the 20 seconds he saves each night - he would never get that part of his life back again.
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I connect it up to my belled end just like you ddddo every night
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NWH , if you had all the bits needed to build a system why did you buy one , out of interest ?
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Spruce , you mentioned you had an air heater earlier , the type that have many chinese copies on youtube , I have been looking at them and see that the exhaust itself can get up to over 100*c , do you think that it is at all possible to convert the exhaust to a solid pipe and wrap it with 10mm copper microbore , I reckon 10m of copper microbore would give about 100 wraps , could you gain a decent temp from that ?
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Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.
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Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.
Which means you should have had a lot more disposable income
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Spruce , you mentioned you had an air heater earlier , the type that have many chinese copies on youtube , I have been looking at them and see that the exhaust itself can get up to over 100*c , do you think that it is at all possible to convert the exhaust to a solid pipe and wrap it with 10mm copper microbore , I reckon 10m of copper microbore would give about 100 wraps , could you gain a decent temp from that ?
The exhaust temperature I'm informed can reach 200 degrees C on a Thermo Top C. It would be possible to wrap a coil of copper tube around the exhaust and remove some of that wasted heat. Here's a video clip of one but he doesn't provided a step by step diy tutorial.
https://youtu.be/Kn_VTsiMsZU
This was a topic for discussion on the other forum recently and I'm informed the a liebig condenser is what the vegetable oil users use to warm the oil to run their engines.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543005922_740000444_IMG_0052(1).thumb.JPG.ac238102ef2e2bf612e3203ed866e4b9.JPG)
I'm told that this works but not very effectively.
The thing is that these heaters are primarily air heaters and you have to do something with that hot air.
There's another cleaner in Andover who uses his Thermo Top C to heat the water in the tank. He has fitted the exhaust silencer into a diy metal box and uses a computer cooling fan to blow the heat into the back of the van to warm that up rather than wasting it to the atmosphere. Obviously the exhaust is then routed out of the van.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RD_Hw2y6yw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWJob7anCgg&t=22s
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I connect it up to my belled end just like you ddddo every night
That probably takes more than 20 seconds.
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Cheers Spruce , I have seen all those except for the Andover guys system actually running , I could never get it to play but your link worked for some reason !
Its a pity the hillbilly never did a follow on as that would have been more like what I had mentioned , perhaps it did not work and he did not want to show it !
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Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.
On another thread you boast of making £50 for 15-20 mins work.....then you moan about your tax bill😂😂😂😂
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What air heater do you have Spruce ?
Any idea what temp air you get on full whack ?
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Yeah and I’ve got plenty of jobs like that that’s what I’m saying you 🍩 if you don’t spend any money or you don’t have any expenses you’ll pay it in tax,last year I only spent about 6 grand or the year before,my tax bill almost doubled.
When I questioned my increase I was told I’d not spent enough through the business ie the increase,I could easily go vat if I wanted to work past 12 and then pick the kids up 😂
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Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.
On another thread you boast of making £50 for 15-20 mins work.....then you moan about your tax bill😂😂😂😂
The way you’ve commented I take it you don’t have many jobs like that then,is that a good earner to you is it 50 for 20 minutes work lol.
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Yeah and I’ve got plenty of jobs like that that’s what I’m saying you 🍩 if you don’t spend any money or you don’t have any expenses you’ll pay it in tax,last year I only spent about 6 grand or the year before,my tax bill almost doubled.
When I questioned my increase I was told I’d not spent enough through the business ie the increase,I could easily go vat if I wanted to work past 12 and then pick the kids up 😂
Are you really that thick that you needed your expenses explained to you😲
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Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.
On another thread you boast of making £50 for 15-20 mins work.....then you moan about your tax bill😂😂😂😂
The way you’ve commented I take it you don’t have many jobs like that then,is that a good earner to you is it 50 for 20 minutes work lol.
I would get chased if I was extracting that kind of money out of my customers😘
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Get chased 😂 been cleaning windas a long time I’ve sorted more wheat from chaff than you’ve had hot dinners
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Get chased 😂 been cleaning windas a long time I’ve sorted more wheat from chaff than you’ve had hot dinners
Wow that does surprise me..going by what you post i thought you would be around 12-13 years of age ;D
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Yeah and I’ve got plenty of jobs like that that’s what I’m saying you 🍩 if you don’t spend any money or you don’t have any expenses you’ll pay it in tax,last year I only spent about 6 grand or the year before,my tax bill almost doubled.
When I questioned my increase I was told I’d not spent enough through the business ie the increase,I could easily go vat if I wanted to work past 12 and then pick the kids up 😂
Are you really that thick that you needed your expenses explained to you😲
Even in this day and age some self-employed people are unable to distinguish between the amount of tax they pay and the level of disposable income.
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Depends how much you earn and what tax you pay,I still speak to some that say oh I only pay 1500-2000 grand a year and that’s over jan and July lol. They must have a cash based business. 😂
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Depends how much you earn and what tax you pay,I still speak to some that say oh I only pay 1500-2000 grand a year and that’s over jan and July lol. They must have a cash based business. 😂
Assuming you're on the lower rate of tax, for every £ you earn after any allowances you will pay somewhere in the region of 29% in tax and national insurance. Leaving you with 71% of what you've turned over, forget operating costs, thats not what we're talking about.
Now, if you choose to go out and buy something with the sole purpose of avoiding paying or lowering your tax bill for every £ you earn you will be left with nothing.
You'll pay less tax, but that 71% that was mentioned in the previous paragraph, that would otherwise be in your pocket and disposable, wont exist at all.
You're worse off for trying to save a few pennies in tax.
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Like you say it depends.
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What are you saying then you’d rather pay more tax rather than have a lower tax bill and have the benefits of having new equipment.
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What are you saying then you’d rather pay more tax rather than have a lower tax bill and have the benefits of having new equipment.
So let’s say for round numbers.......
Your bank account has £10,000 in it.
You meet up with your accountant and You know you’ve got a potential tax bill coming up of £5,000.
You would like to pay less (who doesn’t)
So you decide to buy some equipment totalling £5,000.
That purchase would reduce your tax bill by roughly £1,450.
So your financial position.......
Starting bank balance £10,000
Purchase of £5,000
your bank balance is down to £5,000.
Your tax bill is now reduced to £3,550.
Essentially if your sole purpose was to save money by purchasing equipment, then you’ve just cost yourself an extra £3550.
The easiest way to think of it is, whatever you purchase, calculate 29% of the price, and that’s what you reduce your tax bill by.
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A better way to do it would be to buy on finance a capital asset like a van or expensive equipment like a diesel heater then claim the whole amount as capital allowance. This would reduce your tax bill but not hurt your pocket as much.
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What air heater do you have Spruce ?
Any idea what temp air you get on full whack ?
An Eberspacher Airtronic 5kw. I don't know what heat it actually puts out but it warms up the cabin area of my Citroen Relay nicely and for me that's what its there for. I have an internal temperature probe in the courtesy light cluster of my van. The temperature controller is set to control the heater's output around 25 degrees in the cabin. That's warm enough to thaw me out when I'm 'frozen'.
My heater is fitted inside the cargo area. The air is drawn from the cabin, heated and returned to the cabin.
I also must add that I have a steel bulkhead which separates the load area from the cabin. The same heater hardly makes an indent on a lwb motor home conversion on the temperature scale. This is noted on many motorhome forums.
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Like you say it depends.
Ah, no I didn’t say that, at all.
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So 5 kw is thermotop c
And 9 kw is thermo pro 90
Thanks for that !
Next question is .... What is the temp of the coolant before it goes into the heat exchanger and what sort of Lpm it pumps it at ?
I’m just having another of my brainwaves in DIY world 😁
5 years ago I thought about making my own version with a few additions of my own.
So I put this together with the view of then fitting it into a box.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1542896361_DSCF0551b.jpg)
Firstly the diesel heater is a Thermo Top C and its a universal variant. A diesel heater from a Rover 75 will work as will one from a Citroen C5 and C8. The universal units are available ex narrow boat and yachts. Mine came from a refurbisher.
Vehicle specifical Thermo Tops for BMW and others that integrate into the vehicles Canbus do not work, no matter what the Ebay sellers say. (I'v got a BMW one here in the garage that doesn't work.)
You will need a wiring harness, a fuel pump and in some cases a water pump. A 1531 controller is also a plus although cheaper digital controllers or a standard on/off switch will work.
When I played around with this the water temperature in the tank was 9 degrees. With the heater working flat out the temperature at the brush head was 35 degrees after 100 meters of hose, most of which was coiled on the hose reel. The water leaving the heat exchanger to go back to the boiler via the header was cold. That heat exchanger zapped every scrap of heat from the hot water.
I believed that 5kw would support heating 2 hose reels. According to the calculator I used, raising 1.5lpm of water through 26 degrees should have only used 2.65kw, so the rest of the heat was being lost, mainly through the exhaust. That put me off a bit.
The idea of the 3rd heat exchanger was to connect it up to a third pump that would be controlled using a digital temperature controller. This was my automatic control solution to ensure the furnace remained running when I stopped to chat to people.
The cycle of a Thermo Top C is that it takes around 90 seconds to fully start. It will burn on full heat mode until the water its heating gets up to 74 degrees C. At 74 degrees the heater goes into half heat mode. Once the temperature of the heated water reaches 77 degrees the heater goes in power down mode, which takes around 90 seconds.
Now if you start to draw heat from the heating circuit when the water is 75 degrees, the heater will stay in half heat mode until it drops to 68 degrees C is memory serves me. So the idea was to program the digital controller to kick a pump in at 75 degrees and switch it off at 70 degrees C and bleed that hot water into the tank.
The problem with diesel heaters is getting them out of heating sync. So if I talked to a customer for a while and the heater went into its shutdown cycle I would have to wait for at least 3 minutes before the heater switched off and then restarted. By then the water at the brush head was cold as I had zapped all the heat from it and because I'm still working the temperature will take a long time before it starts to heat the water up. I will probably have completed the next house using mainly cold water. Once I stop working the heater then has a chance to catch up. This will probably mean the heater again goes into shutdown mode. This is the reason why NWH and a few others redirect the water to the tank on route to the next customer.
These things are primarily engine preheaters. So they start and warm up the coolant in the engine block. When the temperature of the coolant water reaches 30 degrees the unit will switch on the internal blower motor so defrosting the windscreen and warming the cabin. This process will take around 30 minutes, so the programmer will switch off after 30 minutes unless you set it to stay on longer. The heater shuts off at 77 degrees C as that is before the vehicles cooling thermostat starts to open.
Its pointless pumping that hot water through the radiator to be cooled by it.
.
That has to be the most informative post I have found on the web about these heaters.
What heat exchangers were you using. The Webasto ones are pricy and the options on eBay for not to much money are in kw. I presumed 66kw would be about right
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So 5 kw is thermotop c
And 9 kw is thermo pro 90
Thanks for that !
Next question is .... What is the temp of the coolant before it goes into the heat exchanger and what sort of Lpm it pumps it at ?
I’m just having another of my brainwaves in DIY world 😁
5 years ago I thought about making my own version with a few additions of my own.
So I put this together with the view of then fitting it into a box.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1542896361_DSCF0551b.jpg)
Firstly the diesel heater is a Thermo Top C and its a universal variant. A diesel heater from a Rover 75 will work as will one from a Citroen C5 and C8. The universal units are available ex narrow boat and yachts. Mine came from a refurbisher.
Vehicle specifical Thermo Tops for BMW and others that integrate into the vehicles Canbus do not work, no matter what the Ebay sellers say. (I'v got a BMW one here in the garage that doesn't work.)
You will need a wiring harness, a fuel pump and in some cases a water pump. A 1531 controller is also a plus although cheaper digital controllers or a standard on/off switch will work.
When I played around with this the water temperature in the tank was 9 degrees. With the heater working flat out the temperature at the brush head was 35 degrees after 100 meters of hose, most of which was coiled on the hose reel. The water leaving the heat exchanger to go back to the boiler via the header was cold. That heat exchanger zapped every scrap of heat from the hot water.
I believed that 5kw would support heating 2 hose reels. According to the calculator I used, raising 1.5lpm of water through 26 degrees should have only used 2.65kw, so the rest of the heat was being lost, mainly through the exhaust. That put me off a bit.
The idea of the 3rd heat exchanger was to connect it up to a third pump that would be controlled using a digital temperature controller. This was my automatic control solution to ensure the furnace remained running when I stopped to chat to people.
The cycle of a Thermo Top C is that it takes around 90 seconds to fully start. It will burn on full heat mode until the water its heating gets up to 74 degrees C. At 74 degrees the heater goes into half heat mode. Once the temperature of the heated water reaches 77 degrees the heater goes in power down mode, which takes around 90 seconds.
Now if you start to draw heat from the heating circuit when the water is 75 degrees, the heater will stay in half heat mode until it drops to 68 degrees C is memory serves me. So the idea was to program the digital controller to kick a pump in at 75 degrees and switch it off at 70 degrees C and bleed that hot water into the tank.
The problem with diesel heaters is getting them out of heating sync. So if I talked to a customer for a while and the heater went into its shutdown cycle I would have to wait for at least 3 minutes before the heater switched off and then restarted. By then the water at the brush head was cold as I had zapped all the heat from it and because I'm still working the temperature will take a long time before it starts to heat the water up. I will probably have completed the next house using mainly cold water. Once I stop working the heater then has a chance to catch up. This will probably mean the heater again goes into shutdown mode. This is the reason why NWH and a few others redirect the water to the tank on route to the next customer.
These things are primarily engine preheaters. So they start and warm up the coolant in the engine block. When the temperature of the coolant water reaches 30 degrees the unit will switch on the internal blower motor so defrosting the windscreen and warming the cabin. This process will take around 30 minutes, so the programmer will switch off after 30 minutes unless you set it to stay on longer. The heater shuts off at 77 degrees C as that is before the vehicles cooling thermostat starts to open.
Its pointless pumping that hot water through the radiator to be cooled by it.
.
That has to be the most informative post I have found on the web about these heaters.
What heat exchangers were you using. The Webasto ones are pricy and the options on eBay for not to much money are in kw. I presumed 66kw would be about right
Honestly I can't remember exactly which heat exchangers they are as they were purchased some 5 or so years ago. They were Gedhill heat exchangers and are similar to these; Gledhill GT017 Plate Heat Exchanger. The difference is the couplings that are 22mm rather than threaded.
In the early stages I was in contact with this supplier in Germany.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hrale-Stainless-Steel-Heat-Exchanger-10-Plates-max-22-kW-Plate-Heat-Exchanger-/331858113137?hash=item4d4448f271
I was advised by the owner of Wiltec that he believed a 10 plate 22kw heat exchanger would be sufficient for what we want.
They are of similar size to the heat exchangers used on some combi boilers and they work ok in that application.
These are a cheaper alternative.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hrale-Stainless-Steel-Heat-Exchanger-30-Plates-max-66-kW-Plate-Heat-Exchanger-/331858111017?hash=item4d4448ea29
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I have read all theses posts with great intrest spruce is a font of knowledge, but I don’t understand why anyone would spend the amount of time cobbling together what can be bought and installed by a professional company with a guarantee themselves , it’s never going to be cost effective and is plainly obvious that most haven’t got a clue what they are doing as some of the questions being asked are very basic , I have a grippatank 9 kw system had it 4 years works 8 hours a day and has never missed a beat for all those wanting hot water just go and get it done professionally as it will work out better and cheaper in the long run , trying to do it yourself is never worth it to save a very small amount of money the professionally installed systems are tried tested and have a proven track record , cheap heat exchangers off eBay don’t last a friend of mine has had several they are cheap copies as soon as you pick them up you can feel the difference, when earning a living you need top notch reliable kit that won’t let you down .
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I have read all theses posts with great intrest spruce is a font of knowledge, but I don’t understand why anyone would spend the amount of time cobbling together what can be bought and installed by a professional company with a guarantee themselves , it’s never going to be cost effective and is plainly obvious that most haven’t got a clue what they are doing as some of the questions being asked are very basic , I have a grippatank 9 kw system had it 4 years works 8 hours a day and has never missed a beat for all those wanting hot water just go and get it done professionally as it will work out better and cheaper in the long run , trying to do it yourself is never worth it to save a very small amount of money the professionally installed systems are tried tested and have a proven track record , cheap heat exchangers off eBay don’t last a friend of mine has had several they are cheap copies as soon as you pick them up you can feel the difference, when earning a living you need top notch reliable kit that won’t let you down .
You are right, but I have learnt so much myself with this exercise and I enjoyed giving myself a lot of insight on how these things work.
I do have a 2 man Heatwave 9kw which I bought as spares and repairs and have got working. I will probably fit it into my next van which isn't rotting away with rust like my current van is.
I wanted to include the third heat exchanger concept into that. Its been on the back burner for a bit as I just haven't had the energy to get stuck in and complete the task.
Actually window cleaning takes all the energy I've got atm.
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I have read all theses posts with great intrest spruce is a font of knowledge, but I don’t understand why anyone would spend the amount of time cobbling together what can be bought and installed by a professional company with a guarantee themselves , it’s never going to be cost effective and is plainly obvious that most haven’t got a clue what they are doing as some of the questions being asked are very basic , I have a grippatank 9 kw system had it 4 years works 8 hours a day and has never missed a beat for all those wanting hot water just go and get it done professionally as it will work out better and cheaper in the long run , trying to do it yourself is never worth it to save a very small amount of money the professionally installed systems are tried tested and have a proven track record , cheap heat exchangers off eBay don’t last a friend of mine has had several they are cheap copies as soon as you pick them up you can feel the difference, when earning a living you need top notch reliable kit that won’t let you down .
You are right, but I have learnt so much myself with this exercise and I enjoyed giving myself a lot of insight on how these things work.
I do have a 2 man Heatwave 9kw which I bought as spares and repairs and have got working. I will probably fit it into my next van which isn't rotting away with rust like my current van is.
I wanted to include the third heat exchanger concept into that. Its been on the back burner for a bit as I just haven't had the energy to get stuck in and complete the task.
Actually window cleaning takes all the energy I've got atm.
Intresting what you say about 3 heat exchangers that’s what I wanted and after long discussion with Oliver at Grippatank and extensive testing it couldn’t be done successfully you could have two hot hoses or 3 Luke warm hoses , so I opted for the two hot and one cold , but the tank heats up quite quickly with water return to tank so after a couple of hours the cold hose it quite hot anyway .
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I have read all theses posts with great intrest spruce is a font of knowledge, but I don’t understand why anyone would spend the amount of time cobbling together what can be bought and installed by a professional company with a guarantee themselves , it’s never going to be cost effective and is plainly obvious that most haven’t got a clue what they are doing as some of the questions being asked are very basic , I have a grippatank 9 kw system had it 4 years works 8 hours a day and has never missed a beat for all those wanting hot water just go and get it done professionally as it will work out better and cheaper in the long run , trying to do it yourself is never worth it to save a very small amount of money the professionally installed systems are tried tested and have a proven track record , cheap heat exchangers off eBay don’t last a friend of mine has had several they are cheap copies as soon as you pick them up you can feel the difference, when earning a living you need top notch reliable kit that won’t let you down .
You are right, but I have learnt so much myself with this exercise and I enjoyed giving myself a lot of insight on how these things work.
I do have a 2 man Heatwave 9kw which I bought as spares and repairs and have got working. I will probably fit it into my next van which isn't rotting away with rust like my current van is.
I wanted to include the third heat exchanger concept into that. Its been on the back burner for a bit as I just haven't had the energy to get stuck in and complete the task.
Actually window cleaning takes all the energy I've got atm.
Intresting what you say about 3 heat exchangers that’s what I wanted and after long discussion with Oliver at Grippatank and extensive testing it couldn’t be done successfully you could have two hot hoses or 3 Luke warm hoses , so I opted for the two hot and one cold , but the tank heats up quite quickly with water return to tank so after a couple of hours the cold hose it quite hot anyway .
The idea behind the third heat exchanger with a third pump was to control that 'add-on' with a digital temperature controller. When the internal hot water circuit reaches a few degrees before the Webasto goes from reduced heat mode to shutdown I would program the controller to switch the pump on and bleed that heat back to the tank. On the 9.1kw Webasto that half heat 'window' is about 10 degrees C (depending on the model and how they connect up the purple wire) so the idea was that the controller would cycle the pump on and off to keep that temperature in that half heat mode window.
So the third heat exchanger theoretically wouldn't interfere with the heat of the other other two hose reels.
Some go back to the van and plug the hose onto a connection on the tank to do a similar job. Ionics use a pressure relief valve, so when you switch the flow off at the brush head the pressure increases to 65psi, pushes the pressure relief valve off its seat and water flows back to the tank. Downside for me is that the pump would run continually. The other downside is that Ionics don't have a temerature control valve on their heat exchanger so the temperature to the brush head is unregulated.
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Spruce. I was looking at heat exchangers out of combi boilers that are the same size or larger than the Webasto one. Like the gt017. I beleive the Chinese Kw rating should be taken with a pinch of salt
You said the exchangers you had resulted in cold hoses on the outlet side of the heater circuit. Shows that the exchanger is drawing all the heat out of the system well.
I planned to used silicon hoses and lag everything on the heater side
You say you made this set up 5 years ago. Still using it?
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Spruce. I was looking at heat exchangers out of combi boilers that are the same size or larger than the Webasto one. Like the gt017. I beleive the Chinese Kw rating should be taken with a pinch of salt
You said the exchangers you had resulted in cold hoses on the outlet side of the heater circuit. Shows that the exchanger is drawing all the heat out of the system well.
I planned to used silicon hoses and lag everything on the heater side
You say you made this set up 5 years ago. Still using it?
No I'm not. It was a 'test bench' I made up to see how efficienctly or inefficiently the system works. And those heat exchangers work brilliantly. They are perhaps too good for the application as I think we need something smaller or less efficient that will 'share' some heat with the other heat exchanger so at least both operators benefit.
In the early day when minbore hose became available to us window cleaners it was rather stiff. It was just manageable in summer but a nightmare in winter. (But it was better than the 1/2" garden hose we used before that.) So the original idea was to have a heater that just put enough heat out to warm the hoses enough to make them more manageable to use in winter.
My heat calculator said that raising the temperature from 9 degrees to 36 degrees at 1.5lpm of water required 2.65kw of heat. But as the outlet of the first heat exchanger was cold after zapping all the heat I concluded that I'm missing 2.55kw of heat; nearly half of the rated 5.2kw. When I started off I honestly believed that this 5.kw Webasto should provide enough heat for both operators so I was very disappointed when the results fell far short of my expectations.
I felt really upset that we have a respected German company advertising a product that isn't delivering what its expected to. When I worked for Bosch Power Tools, German regulations stated that they could underate a motors wattage but nothing more. In other words they could, for example, bring out a new drilling machine fitted with a 750watt motor. However, they could promote that product as having a 500 watt motor. Then further down the line they would then promote that same power tool with an upgraded 600 watt motor and then later on a 750watt motor. But they obviously couldn't advertise the drill with a 600 watt motor when it only had a 500 watt motor.
I see this 5.2kw, not as a 5.2kw unit, but as smaller because that extra heat going out through the exhaust is of no use to man or beast. I see this as the same as advertising that drill with a 750watt motor when its only 500 watt.
In my own mind I just couldn't justify loosing 50% of a liter of diesel in wasted heat, especially as diesel in those days was climbing to about the same price as it is now. Adding this heater would mean I would be using around £80 of diesel a month added to the £60 I spend filling the van's tank up. I just couldn't believe that the poor performance of this heater for our purposes was worth the running costs of an extra £500 a year for winter use just to have slightly warmer hoses.
I changed the minibore on my hose reel for something that was a little more flexible and hence manageable in the cold and that seemed a better solution.
As I stated earlier I didn't give up on the heated water idea and bought a 2 man Heatwave spares or repairs. I got it working but the second heat exchanger was leaking water so stripped it down. At the time I didn't expect my van to last as long as it has done due to rust so haven't made much of an attempt to set this one up in a van that would soon be scrapped. This system is still in my garage.
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Interesting the results you have found. I thought people were getting enough heat out of the commercial 5kw systems for a single operator.
From your picture you look like you heat insulated the exchangers. Did you insulate the pipework and header tank also? Surely that’s a few more degrees possibly there ?
I thought of running the heater on waste oil which will be heated via a coil around the diesel heater exhaust. This would make running costs only the diesel needed to start. There is the possibility of a mix with red diesel if that doesn’t work or 10-15% petrol and used oil. Not the sort of trial I would like to do on a new grippatank diesel system.
I thought about having a larger 10-15l header tank to give more of a buffer between pole pump being turned off and on to keep the burner going. Also providing a heat storage for hotter temps or the possibility to run 2 exchangers.
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Interesting the results you have found. I thought people were getting enough heat out of the commercial 5kw systems for a single operator.
From your picture you look like you heat insulated the exchangers. Did you insulate the pipework and header tank also? Surely that’s a few more degrees possibly there ?
I thought of running the heater on waste oil which will be heated via a coil around the diesel heater exhaust. This would make running costs only the diesel needed to start. There is the possibility of a mix with red diesel if that doesn’t work or 10-15% petrol and used oil. Not the sort of trial I would like to do on a new grippatank diesel system.
I thought about having a larger 10-15l header tank to give more of a buffer between pole pump being turned off and on to keep the burner going. Also providing a heat storage for hotter temps or the possibility to run 2 exchangers.
Lol you wont get it to run on that it will just carbon up
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Yeah and I’ve got plenty of jobs like that that’s what I’m saying you 🍩 if you don’t spend any money or you don’t have any expenses you’ll pay it in tax,last year I only spent about 6 grand or the year before,my tax bill almost doubled.
When I questioned my increase I was told I’d not spent enough through the business ie the increase,I could easily go vat if I wanted to work past 12 and then pick the kids up 😂
Are you really that thick that you needed your expenses explained to you😲
Even in this day and age some self-employed people are unable to distinguish between the amount of tax they pay and the level of disposable income.
I reckon NWH should stay off the sauce!! It certainly doesn't do him any favours!!🤣🤣
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I thought of running the heater on waste oil which will be heated via a coil around the diesel heater exhaust. This would make running costs only the diesel needed to start. There is the possibility of a mix with red diesel if that doesn’t work or 10-15% petrol and used oil. Not the sort of trial I would like to do on a new grippatank diesel system.
I thought about having a larger 10-15l header tank to give more of a buffer between pole pump being turned off and on to keep the burner going. Also providing a heat storage for hotter temps or the possibility to run 2 exchangers.
Lol you wont get it to run on that it will just carbon up
Looks like it’s been done
https://youtu.be/tGajz_6YlNM
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I thought of running the heater on waste oil which will be heated via a coil around the diesel heater exhaust. This would make running costs only the diesel needed to start. There is the possibility of a mix with red diesel if that doesn’t work or 10-15% petrol and used oil. Not the sort of trial I would like to do on a new grippatank diesel system.
I thought about having a larger 10-15l header tank to give more of a buffer between pole pump being turned off and on to keep the burner going. Also providing a heat storage for hotter temps or the possibility to run 2 exchangers.
Lol you wont get it to run on that it will just carbon up
Looks like it’s been done
https://youtu.be/tGajz_6YlNM
It might run for a short period but trust me it won’t last for hundreds of hours like it will if run on proper diesel , you don’t really believe all you see on YouTube do you ??
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I have read all theses posts with great intrest spruce is a font of knowledge, but I don’t understand why anyone would spend the amount of time cobbling together what can be bought and installed by a professional company with a guarantee themselves , it’s never going to be cost effective and is plainly obvious that most haven’t got a clue what they are doing as some of the questions being asked are very basic , I have a grippatank 9 kw system had it 4 years works 8 hours a day and has never missed a beat for all those wanting hot water just go and get it done professionally as it will work out better and cheaper in the long run , trying to do it yourself is never worth it to save a very small amount of money the professionally installed systems are tried tested and have a proven track record , cheap heat exchangers off eBay don’t last a friend of mine has had several they are cheap copies as soon as you pick them up you can feel the difference, when earning a living you need top notch reliable kit that won’t let you down .
You are right, but I have learnt so much myself with this exercise and I enjoyed giving myself a lot of insight on how these things work.
I do have a 2 man Heatwave 9kw which I bought as spares and repairs and have got working. I will probably fit it into my next van which isn't rotting away with rust like my current van is.
I wanted to include the third heat exchanger concept into that. Its been on the back burner for a bit as I just haven't had the energy to get stuck in and complete the task.
Actually window cleaning takes all the energy I've got atm.
Intresting what you say about 3 heat exchangers that’s what I wanted and after long discussion with Oliver at Grippatank and extensive testing it couldn’t be done successfully you could have two hot hoses or 3 Luke warm hoses , so I opted for the two hot and one cold , but the tank heats up quite quickly with water return to tank so after a couple of hours the cold hose it quite hot anyway .
The idea behind the third heat exchanger with a third pump was to control that 'add-on' with a digital temperature controller. When the internal hot water circuit reaches a few degrees before the Webasto goes from reduced heat mode to shutdown I would program the controller to switch the pump on and bleed that heat back to the tank. On the 9.1kw Webasto that half heat 'window' is about 10 degrees C (depending on the model and how they connect up the purple wire) so the idea was that the controller would cycle the pump on and off to keep that temperature in that half heat mode window.
So the third heat exchanger theoretically wouldn't interfere with the heat of the other other two hose reels.
Some go back to the van and plug the hose onto a connection on the tank to do a similar job. Ionics use a pressure relief valve, so when you switch the flow off at the brush head the pressure increases to 65psi, pushes the pressure relief valve off its seat and water flows back to the tank. Downside for me is that the pump would run continually. The other downside is that Ionics don't have a temerature control valve on their heat exchanger so the temperature to the brush head is unregulated.
Spruce , in practice the lack of a temp regulator is no issue , it self regulates , in cold weather you lose more heat from the hose .
The pressure relief keeps the heater working full wack , keeping the burner in excellent condition.
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Interesting the results you have found. I thought people were getting enough heat out of the commercial 5kw systems for a single operator.
From your picture you look like you heat insulated the exchangers. Did you insulate the pipework and header tank also? Surely that’s a few more degrees possibly there ?
I thought of running the heater on waste oil which will be heated via a coil around the diesel heater exhaust. This would make running costs only the diesel needed to start. There is the possibility of a mix with red diesel if that doesn’t work or 10-15% petrol and used oil. Not the sort of trial I would like to do on a new grippatank diesel system.
I thought about having a larger 10-15l header tank to give more of a buffer between pole pump being turned off and on to keep the burner going. Also providing a heat storage for hotter temps or the possibility to run 2 exchangers.
Yes, the heat exchangers were insulated but not the pipework. I wasn't going for the minutest detail as I was looking for a sense of direction.
For a single operator I could have got a little more from the boiler had I spent time on heating the header tank up first and possibly reducing my flow fractionally.
I got 35 degrees at the brush head which was a little more at the heat exchangers. So this was a rise in temperature of 26 degrees. Had I set my thermostatically control valve for say 40 degrees output and then waited for the water in the internal hot water circuit to get much hotter, then there would have been a little heat left in the header tank to draw from. This would probably have been replenished when I switched the pole hose tap off to move from the rear to the front windows for example. That extra heat in the header tank would have acted like a buffer.
So with the right management I feel that the 5.2kw Webasto would have just managed for me as a single operator.
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I have read all theses posts with great intrest spruce is a font of knowledge, but I don’t understand why anyone would spend the amount of time cobbling together what can be bought and installed by a professional company with a guarantee themselves , it’s never going to be cost effective and is plainly obvious that most haven’t got a clue what they are doing as some of the questions being asked are very basic , I have a grippatank 9 kw system had it 4 years works 8 hours a day and has never missed a beat for all those wanting hot water just go and get it done professionally as it will work out better and cheaper in the long run , trying to do it yourself is never worth it to save a very small amount of money the professionally installed systems are tried tested and have a proven track record , cheap heat exchangers off eBay don’t last a friend of mine has had several they are cheap copies as soon as you pick them up you can feel the difference, when earning a living you need top notch reliable kit that won’t let you down .
You are right, but I have learnt so much myself with this exercise and I enjoyed giving myself a lot of insight on how these things work.
I do have a 2 man Heatwave 9kw which I bought as spares and repairs and have got working. I will probably fit it into my next van which isn't rotting away with rust like my current van is.
I wanted to include the third heat exchanger concept into that. Its been on the back burner for a bit as I just haven't had the energy to get stuck in and complete the task.
Actually window cleaning takes all the energy I've got atm.
Intresting what you say about 3 heat exchangers that’s what I wanted and after long discussion with Oliver at Grippatank and extensive testing it couldn’t be done successfully you could have two hot hoses or 3 Luke warm hoses , so I opted for the two hot and one cold , but the tank heats up quite quickly with water return to tank so after a couple of hours the cold hose it quite hot anyway .
The idea behind the third heat exchanger with a third pump was to control that 'add-on' with a digital temperature controller. When the internal hot water circuit reaches a few degrees before the Webasto goes from reduced heat mode to shutdown I would program the controller to switch the pump on and bleed that heat back to the tank. On the 9.1kw Webasto that half heat 'window' is about 10 degrees C (depending on the model and how they connect up the purple wire) so the idea was that the controller would cycle the pump on and off to keep that temperature in that half heat mode window.
So the third heat exchanger theoretically wouldn't interfere with the heat of the other other two hose reels.
Some go back to the van and plug the hose onto a connection on the tank to do a similar job. Ionics use a pressure relief valve, so when you switch the flow off at the brush head the pressure increases to 65psi, pushes the pressure relief valve off its seat and water flows back to the tank. Downside for me is that the pump would run continually. The other downside is that Ionics don't have a temerature control valve on their heat exchanger so the temperature to the brush head is unregulated.
Spruce , in practice the lack of a temp regulator is no issue , it self regulates , in cold weather you lose more heat from the hose .
The pressure relief keeps the heater working full wack , keeping the burner in excellent condition.
This is true and I appreciate this. Its just that the Thermo top 90 will reach the highest temperature as there is something in reserve. I don't like the idea that I can't actually decide on reducing the temperature to the brush head if I want to.
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spruce i just leave mine on full whack all year round......as robert says a hell of a lot of heat is lost through the hose (if you have a lot of it off your reel) especially on freezing ground in the middle of winter...just as well really or it would be too hot at the brush end for glass cleaning....
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Daz mine is piping m8 I creaked loads this morning 7-8 above freezing in a rural area,I don’t know what’s going on with yours m8 my brush has a constant white halo 😇 round it,really hot all day long
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I have yet to change to grippas hot hose I’m still using standard microbore maybe it’ll be even hotter when I change,like I say no frost this morning just damp and nearly cracking glass on max heat output.
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I have yet to change to grippas hot hose I’m still using standard microbore maybe it’ll be even hotter when I change,like I say no frost this morning just damp and nearly cracking glass on max heat output.
how much hose did you have off the reel?with nearly 100m off on freezing ground with 2c-3c ambient air temperature itll be warm but not hot at brush end even on max heat output....
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I don’t believe that should be happening for a minute Daz my 5kw was sometimes to hot in those conditions with the whole reel out m8,mine was so hot today with half the hose out it was so hot the water was spitting out the brush.
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The top and bottom of it is Daz.... Nigel's is better than yours!! 🌡🔥🎺💨 ;D
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I don’t believe that should be happening for a minute Daz my 5kw was sometimes to hot in those conditions with the whole reel out m8,mine was so hot today with half the hose out it was so hot the water was spitting out the brush.
i was told by oliver himself to expect this when he fitted my heater and he was right.....
check it when its 2c or 3c outside with all your hose off the reel......
other times its hot at brush end but not on a very cold day...
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I have yet to change to grippas hot hose I’m still using standard microbore maybe it’ll be even hotter when I change,like I say no frost this morning just damp and nearly cracking glass on max heat output.
how much hose did you have off the reel?with nearly 100m off on freezing ground with 2c-3c ambient air temperature itll be warm but not hot at brush end even on max heat output....
Daz, out of curiosity what happens when your turn yours down to “minimum”? Does it just go “Warm” or “cold”?
Like NWH there is no way I could run mine on full heat in the winter. Even with 100 metres of hose out it’s very uncomfortable to put your hand under it. I have mine just nice and warm now on the minimum setting.
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I have yet to change to grippas hot hose I’m still using standard microbore maybe it’ll be even hotter when I change,like I say no frost this morning just damp and nearly cracking glass on max heat output.
how much hose did you have off the reel?with nearly 100m off on freezing ground with 2c-3c ambient air temperature itll be warm but not hot at brush end even on max heat output....
Daz, out of curiosity what happens when your turn yours down to “minimum”? Does it just go “Warm” or “cold”?
Like NWH there is no way I could run mine on full heat in the winter. Even with 100 metres of hose out it’s very uncomfortable to put your hand under it. I have mine just nice and warm now on the minimum setting.
the reason why yours is mega hot even with all your hose out is because you have a second pump constantly recirculating back to the tank jonny......
if i turn mine down to min itll be just warm at brush end with all my hose coiled up,on full heat setting its 60c+(too hot to keep your hand under it).....
apparently its not advisable to run the heater on minimum setting according to the manual i got with the heater......
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You got a duff one Daz ???
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I think for these guys who think they've got the hottest kit out there should prove their point by showing us the temp at the brush head with a thermometer, its bullshit the way I see it.
For me to get the kind of temps they're rattling about on here I need to have a flow going direct back to the tank and to leave it on for at least an hour in the morning before I go out, if not more.
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You should recirculate these heaters I did with my 5kw for it to be kind to the chamber and burner,even when I turn the flow up to 80 when I’m working it’s as hot constantly as my 5kw was just after recirculating on the flow of 10,you could make a cup of tea with mine it’s as hot as my L5 gas heater was almost on max.
The 5kw is hot but the 9 is constantly hot at the brush regardless of hose out,even with the hose right out it’s smoking at the brush head I would not use it on max on a very cold day even if the hose was laying on a skating rink Daz maybe you haven’t got maximum battery power as you say you don’t have a mains hook up and do little mileage between jobs.
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I’d be quiet happy to if I knew how lol.
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I’d be quiet happy to if I knew how lol.
If you knew how to what, measure the water temp?
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You got a duff one Daz ???
no dave....its more than hot enough for cleaning glass....im getting between 40-65c at the brush head depending on hose out and ambient air temperature but on a very cold day with 100m out on frozen/frosty ground its warm not hot at brush end because i lose half the heat from the hose.....you dont want it too hot on days like that anyway unless you like replacing glass for your customers windows.... ::)roll ;D
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You're quite funny NWH without realising it. You say your water is that hot it's nearly cracking glass; thats like saying you shag your missus so much she's nearly pregnant.
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You’d like to shag my Mrs lol,think of it as like looking in a garage thinking I’d love to buy 1 of them Range Rovers but knowing deep down you’ve got
No chance m8 lol.
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Like I say it’s hot.
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You should recirculate these heaters I did with my 5kw for it to be kind to the chamber and burner,even when I turn the flow up to 80 when I’m working it’s as hot constantly as my 5kw was just after recirculating on the flow of 10,you could make a cup of tea with mine it’s as hot as my L5 gas heater was almost on max.
The 5kw is hot but the 9 is constantly hot at the brush regardless of hose out,even with the hose right out it’s smoking at the brush head I would not use it on max on a very cold day even if the hose was laying on a skating rink Daz maybe you haven’t got maximum battery power as you say you don’t have a mains hook up and do little mileage between jobs.
nigel your talking rubbish mate......i was told by OLIVER HIMSELF that i would get around 20c-30c at the brush head on a very cold day with 100m of hose out on freezing cold ground and thats exactly my findings....
he also said id get 60c+ at brush head with all my hose out on a warm day in summer and thats my findings too......
40c-50c is not uncommon with a 30 or 40m off the reel with ambient air temperature of 10c-15c(like it will be tomorrow)
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It’s not a competition Daz I’ve used a diesel heater when you was laddering so I know how they work,no offence.
All I’m saying is mine is producing very hot water no hose out all hose out,battery power with these heaters working at optimum performance is important if battery power is poor they pump diesel at a lazy pace if it’s good they pump like grandad on Viagra.
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my batteries are fine nigel,i charge them up every night,i also have the same split charge relay that you have.....
i think the only way your water is getting hotter is because you spend a lot more time driving to work and between jobs (with pipe back to tank)raising the starting temp of the water in your tank......
it takes me 10-15 mins to get to my first job of the day most days and i can spend all morning without moving the van with most of my hose off the reel.......
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How come 2 of you others have return to tank yet Daz does not , this is surely his falling down point as he is only heating cold straight from the tank , you others have , and are heating on demand with pre heated water .
Why the difference in systems , i thought it was standard having return to tank ?
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Maybe that’s what it is I’m not saying you have a dodgy heater at all,the back to tank obviously heats it right back up,I’m recirculating back to tank for at least 15 minutes between jobs most days maybe that’s the trick to it. Like I’ve said the way I’m using it the water is very hot and as far as extra diesel usage is concerned over the 5kw the differential between the 2 is hardly noticeable although it’s bound to be slightly higher with 9kw.
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How come 2 of you others have return to tank yet Daz does not , this is surely his falling down point as he is only heating cold straight from the tank , you others have , and are heating on demand with pre heated water .
Why the difference in systems , i thought it was standard having return to tank ?
all of us have a return to tank rich.......theres only jonny whos got a second pump constantly returning hot water to the tank while he s working though.....
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It doesn’t take that long to heat the tank water either,in a couple of hours if I take off the tank lid I’ll get steam,
If I place my hand on the side of the tank it’s warm,this rises the water temp prior to the burner meaning you are only having to heat warm water after a couple of hours rather than water that is 2-3 degrees.
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im very happy with my heater rich........ i just havent got boiling hot water at the brush head on a very cold day with 100m out!(lets be honest who in their right mind would want that anyway?) ;D ;D ;D
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Me on PVC
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I know 1 thing I don’t have a stiff brush anymore they all soon soften now.
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so basically nigel your saying your hose doesnt lose heat with 100m off the reel.........you must be the only hot WFP window cleaner in the world that doesnt! ;D ;D ;D
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What flow rate do you guys work at as I don’t get any where near those temps out of mine, reads about 31c on the thermostat which is before hose reel
I’m running at about 60-65 fan jets and it’s fairly warm but not silly hot and that’s on full setting
Today drove about 30 min on recirculate mains charged over night and worked no more driving than 10 mins between jobs recirculating back and it not what I expected
I must admit I don’t find these heaters as hot as the last model I had it’s definatly more fuel efficient though
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Im not picking fault , i just dont understand how you are not getting the temps !
Let me get this right .....
Jonny is running a 9kw same as you but has 2 system pumps , 1 to pole on demand and the other constantly feeding back to tank , when he switches pole off that also goes back to tank , 2 pumps back to tank .
You have 1 pump , when you stop flow to brush all goes to tank .
So what does NWH have ?
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It loses heat of course Daz but recirculated the water is so hot by the time I’ve finished a job if it’s cooling down it’s not by much,don’t forget the way I’ve been doing it and 10 minutes between jobs the water will start off at the 70degree mark. I’ll do this on a PVC house if I know that’s where I’m off to next it almost pops off the beading 😂
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What flow rate do you guys work at as I don’t get any where near those temps out of mine, reads about 31c on the thermostat which is before hose reel
I’m running at about 60-65 fan jets and it’s fairly warm but not silly hot and that’s on full setting
Today drove about 30 min on recirculate mains charged over night and worked no more driving than 10 mins between jobs recirculating back and it not what I expected
I must admit I don’t find these heaters as hot as the last model I had it’s definatly more fuel efficient though
flow on 40 and thats gushing out of my jets!thermostat reads 40-50c after 30 mins on recirculation on full heat......brush end varies of course but with hardly any hose off the reel i cant keep my hand under the flow its too hot!im getting 40-50c at brush head on a 10c-15c ambient air temperature day with say 40m off the reel,less with 100m out....
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Im not picking fault , i just dont understand how you are not getting the temps !
Let me get this right .....
Jonny is running a 9kw same as you but has 2 system pumps , 1 to pole on demand and the other constantly feeding back to tank , when he switches pole off that also goes back to tank , 2 pumps back to tank .
You have 1 pump , when you stop flow to brush all goes to tank .
So what does NWH have ?
nigel has the same set up as me and plugs back in manually after cleaning his work.....no second pump.....
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“flow on 40 and thats gushing out of my jets!thermostat reads 40-50c after 30 mins on recirculation on full heat......brush end varies of course but with hardly any hose off the reel i cant keep my hand under the flow its too hot!im getting 40-50c at brush head on a 10c-15c ambient air temperature day with say 40m off the reel,less with 100m out....“
Thanks Daz il try and see but I’m guessing something is not quiet right on my grippa set up
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Im not picking fault , i just dont understand how you are not getting the temps !
Let me get this right .....
Jonny is running a 9kw same as you but has 2 system pumps , 1 to pole on demand and the other constantly feeding back to tank , when he switches pole off that also goes back to tank , 2 pumps back to tank .
You have 1 pump , when you stop flow to brush all goes to tank .
So what does NWH have ?
If qualified doctors haven't been able to work out what NWH has then I don't think Dazmond will know.lol
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So both of you work the same , you have house after house constantly but Nigel has a bit of a jaunt between most jobs ?
If this is right then I see how he has the upper hand with temps , I think LPM flow rates at the brush must make a vast difference also , any ideas what you each get ?
Im doing my homework for a self build if you hadnt guessed ;D
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12 pages of NWH telling us how amazingly hot his water is, far hotter than Daz’s infact, whilst guessing at the heat the whole time.
If only there was a way that water temperature could be measured to stop all the guessing..........
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So both of you work the same , you have house after house constantly but Nigel has a bit of a jaunt between most jobs ?
If this is right then I see how he has the upper hand with temps , I think LPM flow rates at the brush must make a vast difference also , any ideas what you each get ?
Im doing my homework for a self build if you hadnt guessed ;D
If these heaters are thermostatically controlled then it shouldn't matter what the temperature of the tank water is, example if its set to 50degrees then it will just use less power if the tank water is warmer.
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Nigel's heater is run on methanol, I fear Nigel may be drinking it too!! ;D
Not only does hot clean better, but now "hot" hot cleans even better than just hot!
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Next to the Hosereels I have a recirculating pipe I plug straight back in when I’m back to van when reeled in,this means the heater is never shutting down I don’t dead end the pole either.
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If anyone wants to buy my old heatwave there quiet welcome for the DIYer 650 you can take it away all new internals with a new frostat controller.
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Brand new inline frost probe and new usb plug and cable for diagnostic tests,the probe is £100 on its own.
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See this is my point , although its controlled however how , for 4.5k I would want a dial I could turn to get the temp I wanted at brush head , but from what I have just read its still down to so many variables .
Im no worse of with my L5 really , to get 35 at the head on a 5*c day with most of my hose out Im on the lowest gas setting , if its between 5*c and lower I just pick a spot no further than the first increment of the 3 only the boiler .
Its been the same for the last 8 years , and not failed or blown my eyebrows off yet , touch wood ;D
I had been hoping to get away from the gas this year but funds and time will not allow !
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12 pages of NWH telling us how amazingly hot his water is, far hotter than Daz’s infact, whilst guessing at the heat the whole time.
If only there was a way that water temperature could be measured to stop all the guessing..........
Exactly Danny....I've tested mine with a temperature tds meter.....
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So have I 55-65 on a flow of 80 that’s what I use everyday.
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So have I 55-65 on a flow of 80 that’s what I use everyday.
How many LPM is that at the brush head ?
Same Q to you Daz ?
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See this is my point , although its controlled however how , for 4.5k I would want a dial I could turn to get the temp I wanted at brush head , but from what I have just read its still down to so many variables .
Im no worse of with my L5 really , to get 35 at the head on a 5*c day with most of my hose out Im on the lowest gas setting , if its between 5*c and lower I just pick a spot no further than the first increment of the 3 only the boiler .
Its been the same for the last 8 years , and not failed or blown my eyebrows off yet , touch wood ;D
I had been hoping to get away from the gas this year but funds and time will not allow !
Variables are ambient air temp,how much hose is off the reel,frosty ground,how long you've had the heater on for,starting temp of tank water,flow.....etc,etc....
You can't have a set temperature at the brush head ever....it varies all the time....
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For me today, I powered my heater down at 1:30pm, I had about 300 litres in my tank of 55 degree water.
That lasted me till 4:30 with nice hot water.
I really think having a recirculating pump is a good way to go.
Although I’m restricting the heat at one side, the other side is running flat out pumping hot water back to the tank. This means my heater isn’t going into shut down mode, and my coolant is linked to both heat exchangers, so less heat one side, more heat the other.
When there’s two of us working we both work on minimum and have nice hot water. If we run both sides on max temp, we still get 45-50 degrees at both brush heads.
If I just ran one pump off this it would be scorching.
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TBH Daz you should be able to if you have the info to go on , more so with the tech you have !
Last week i got out the van , put my finger in the air and set the system up , gas dial on low , water dial on low , water flow to 1.7 LPM dragged all the hose off and within 3 minutes had 35*c at the brush head .
I could do that at any given weather condition as I have always been one for logging data ;D
The day in question was 8 ambient , 12 tank , 45 out of boiler , 35 after 85m of micro ;D
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TBH Daz you should be able to if you have the info to go on , more so with the tech you have !
Last week i got out the van , put my finger in the air and set the system up , gas dial on low , water dial on low , water flow to 1.7 LPM dragged all the hose off and within 3 minutes had 35*c at the brush head .
I could do that at any given weather condition as I have always been one for logging data ;D
The day in question was 8 ambient , 12 tank , 45 out of boiler , 35 after 85m of micro ;D
Difference is you probably only had 3 houses to clean that day. ;D
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See Jonny has it nailed , powered down with more than enough hot to finish the day , plus the added bonus of no more power draw and also the fact that any more van running is going to charging the bats ;D ;D ;D
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To be honest, this is the only slight negative I can see on the grippatank system. No temperature gauge for the “output”.
It doesn’t really matter of course, as once your used to the heater you know what’s too hot and what’s too cold, but it would be handy to know in times of discussion like this.
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12 pages of NWH telling us how amazingly hot his water is, far hotter than Daz’s infact, whilst guessing at the heat the whole time.
If only there was a way that water temperature could be measured to stop all the guessing..........
He's already admitted he doesn't know how to measure water temp.
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To be honest, this is the only slight negative I can see on the grippatank system. No temperature gauge for the “output”.
It doesn’t really matter of course, as once your used to the heater you know what’s too hot and what’s too cold, but it would be handy to know in times of discussion like this.
You just need a cheap gauge off ebay, the ones that go from hot, all the way to hot hot.👍
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If anyone wants to buy my old heatwave there quiet welcome for the DIYer 650 you can take it away all new internals with a new frostat controller.
How much?
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Im looking to spend 350 on my diesel heater , not a cheeky offer NWH , it may not work yet still unsure !
If it doesnt give me on demand for the van then its gonna save me a fair bit on heating the hot tub for next season ;D ;D ;D
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0On4Yw-2vo90aW74kb0jiAfd7I4jfYTByIVA-U3ON1ij8KeYBVf2DT3A8&feature=youtu.be&v=9YthaCqkMOs
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Did you not see the figure 650 that’s 650 for the cabinet new internals that’s diesel pump 300 on its own plate exchanger 200 odd burner and motor 1000 brand new frost probe 100 odd diagnostic cable brand new,so make me another cheeky 1.
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ALmost new frost stat controller full amourmed plated conduit housing
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And I have a TDS meter with built in temp gauge
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All the heater needs is half a meter of series 300 low voltage unit exhaust.
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If you’ve removed it from your vehicle are you able to start it up and run it for half an hour so potential purchasers can see what ‘bang’ they’re getting for their ‘buck’?
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TBH Daz you should be able to if you have the info to go on , more so with the tech you have !
Last week i got out the van , put my finger in the air and set the system up , gas dial on low , water dial on low , water flow to 1.7 LPM dragged all the hose off and within 3 minutes had 35*c at the brush head .
I could do that at any given weather condition as I have always been one for logging data ;D
The day in question was 8 ambient , 12 tank , 45 out of boiler , 35 after 85m of micro ;D
like ive said im happy with my system rich....i do get hot water at the brush head most of the time just not when its very cold(2c-3c)and i have 100m off the reel....i lose too much heat from the hose...its warm but not hot at brush end which suits me fine,IMO you dont want very hot water at brush end on a freezing cold day anyway.....
i dont mess around with the temp setting anymore,i just leave it on full heat all year round,oliver told me its the best way to run these heaters when i had it installed........
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If anyone wants to buy my old heatwave there quiet welcome for the DIYer 650 you can take it away all new internals with a new frostat controller.
How much?
hows your grippa hot system going matt?you had yours fitted roughly the same time as me....
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If anyone wants to buy my old heatwave there quiet welcome for the DIYer 650 you can take it away all new internals with a new frostat controller.
How much?
hows your grippa hot system going matt?you had yours fitted roughly the same time as me....
Going well now Daz thanks. There were a few teething problems and in all honesty in hindsight it would've been more convenient to have bought brand new.
The only thing I find that isn't in keeping with others on here is to get those temperatures being shouted about it needs to run for a good hour in the morning. I dont know if that's because the kit is 4 years old , maybe because the battery might need replacing or because BillyBigBalls isn't telling the truth. Thats with the return to tank in operation. Anyway, once up to heat its great, thanks.
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If it’s taking 4 hours to get to the heat your saying you need a new burner I reckon or like you say old batteries,what model is yours is it a series 300 thermo too C.
How’s it pumping diesel I found poor batteries result in slow pumping from the units diesel pump.
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My heater is producing water too hot to use within 10 minutes.
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If it’s taking 4 hours to get to the heat your saying you need a new burner I reckon or like you say old batteries,what model is yours is it a series 300 thermo too C.
How’s it pumping diesel I found poor batteries result in slow pumping from the units diesel pump.
Ive been contemplating changing the battery to see if thats it but its an expensive thing to do if its not the issue.
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The best thing you can do is try another battery somehow,I had the same problem with my other heater,they need a good battery supply to work efficiently.
Is the pump on the heater that supplies diesel pumping slowly if it is I would say try a new battery.
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When I had a poor battery before it would pump diesel every 1-2-2 seconds,with a correct setup it should sound like it’s hammering.
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1 battery is not enough anyway you need 2 inline acting as they draw loads of power when they are cycling the heater.
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Slacky, has the unit you have been run at full power all the time or has it been used on low heat a fair bit ?
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It sounds coked
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It sounds coked
My thoughts exactly , I bet you have a thick coating of soot between the combustion chamber and water jacket or pipe whichever it is , I can’t quite tell from the exploded view
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Slacky, has the unit you have been run at full power all the time or has it been used on low heat a fair bit ?
Full power 100% of the time.
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Is the pump on the heater that supplies diesel pumping slowly if it is I would say try a new battery.
The knocking noise the diesel pump makes doesn't sound slow to me. It knocks probably at least once a second if not slightly quicker.
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It sounds coked
My thoughts exactly , I bet you have a thick coating of soot between the combustion chamber and water jacket or pipe whichever it is , I can’t quite tell from the exploded view
It was serviced last December.
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Does this service include a strip down and clean or was it a replace the glow plug and off you pop kind of service ?
I once had a cambelt done and the van came back with the same belt tensioner on , just a thought !
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The works. It was removed from a different vehicle and full service. Its also had a new ECU fitted and new return pump.
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Well I’m stumped then , as long as the plate heat exchanger is all good then it’s got to be back to power supply as a poss problem.
I did see a couple of chaps the other day using a workshop bench 12 volt 36 amp power supply from the mains , don’t know how much they are , maybe cheaper than a battery but still a handy thing to have .
And I assume it runs the same if the van is running , didn’t Daz get this when first fitted out ?
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How long would you expect a battery to last if it wasn't bench charged for 9 months running one of these?
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Probably around 5 mins 😁
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Probably around 5 mins 😁
I’ll get a new battery. Thanks.
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Heater pulls 36 amp to fire up then drops down a fair bit , can’t remember exactly but I would think about 6 or 8 amp per hour
What battery you got and how is it getting a charge at the moment ?
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Just seen a few power supplies and they are around 100 quid so it’s an expensive test , better off with new bat or 2 to be safe with split charge
Daz and NWH are right there , them heaters gobble power
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If anyone wants to buy my old heatwave there quiet welcome for the DIYer 650 you can take it away all new internals with a new frostat controller.
what makeof heater do you have matt?
How much?
hows your grippa hot system going matt?you had yours fitted roughly the same time as me....
Going well now Daz thanks. There were a few teething problems and in all honesty in hindsight it would've been more convenient to have bought brand new.
The only thing I find that isn't in keeping with others on here is to get those temperatures being shouted about it needs to run for a good hour in the morning. I dont know if that's because the kit is 4 years old , maybe because the battery might need replacing or because BillyBigBalls isn't telling the truth. Thats with the return to tank in operation. Anyway, once up to heat its great, thanks.
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I meant to say do you have say a pure freedom built in box or a diy one?
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Don’t go blowing all the wonga just yet though , test some other poor souls bat on it first as mentioned above.
Also don’t forget , I don’t have one , I am but a mere L5 scumbag 🤣
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Its a 110amp but up until recently has been relying on a split charge relay.
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Would putting an ampmeter on it help to indicate anything might be wonky?
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Would putting an ampmeter on it help to indicate anything might be wonky?
Defintiely. If it’s reading 12.3 volts or less it needs replaced, or possibly reconditioned. I have a Ctek charger and they can bring batteries to life in some cases.
My batteries never drop below 12.5. I have a split charge relay and I plug in every night.
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Lol yeah I try the battery blimey,if you get a problem with these heaters first thing to check is the battery,you heat problem could well be the heat exchanger I had this same problem running fine loss of heat.
I changed the plate exchanger it was producing hotter water they also get blocked over time.
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Did the service look at the heat exchanger ?
Youtube is well worth looking at , only the other day I saw how to flush out exchangers and strip down and decoke a diesel heater , admitidly it was an air heater but exactly the same principal other than the possibility of gaskets that might need replacing upon rebuild
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The chemicals people will tell you can use to clean out heat exchangers I’ve heard they can be damaging to them,it’s safer to just buy another I noticed a big difference in heat when I changed mine.
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You should buy my 5kw heater 😂
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You should buy my 5kw heater 😂
You should say how much you want for it, Ive asked more than once on this thread.
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The reading when the system is running is 12.5 A btw.
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That’s not fully charged 12-9 is fully charged does it go up above 12-5 at all during the the day when you’ve just parked up,my batteries will read 13-2 or above and then maybe drop down to 12-9 but not a lot lower that’s after and during using it for quiet a while and then back up to the higher reading when I’ve driven for another 10 mins or so.
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I want 650 for it
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That’s not fully charged 12-9 is fully charged does it go up above 12-5 at all during the the day when you’ve just parked up,my batteries will read 13-2 or above and then maybe drop down to 12-9 but not a lot lower that’s after and during using it for quiet a while and then back up to the higher reading when I’ve driven for another 10 mins or so.
If I drive around it'll go up to 14+ but once the engine is stopped and its running independently it'll go down to 12.5 within a minute or two.
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As has already been suggested to you Slacky, you need 2 x 110amp batteries.
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That will happen , dont forget that the 12.5 you see is voltage with the draw of the heater running which is probably about right , I would not buy a battery yet as you might be ok , what you need is a pal with a battery you know to be tip top good and try that
Did you say it runs no different if the van is started ?
You can just use plain old water to clean the plate exchanger from your garden hose sprayer but it is a bit of a faff , but if you take it off and try it will become aparent you got poop in it right away .
It could just be a single gasket that has gone in the exchanger , thats all it takes to knacker one as they are factory sealed , you could have up to 16 plates on yours I think
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That’s not fully charged 12-9 is fully charged does it go up above 12-5 at all during the the day when you’ve just parked up,my batteries will read 13-2 or above and then maybe drop down to 12-9 but not a lot lower that’s after and during using it for quiet a while and then back up to the higher reading when I’ve driven for another 10 mins or so.
If I drive around it'll go up to 14+ but once the engine is stopped and its running independently it'll go down to 12.5 within a minute or two.
Its not as simple as NWH is making it sound, you’ll get different voltage readings depending if its on charge, under load etc...
I posted this table a while ago but it may help now.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543416522_F473B0F2-0CBB-4BEE-A2E1-8D8CFB7AFDDE.jpeg)
A reading of 12.5 while its under load is ok. And bare in mind it takes a while to get a ‘true’ voltage reading after charge or load, as the battery needs time to settle.
(Added, the issue with voltage is that it only shows you the “real time” state of battery, what it wont tell you if how long the battery can hold charge.)
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As has already been suggested to you Slacky, you need 2 x 110amp batteries.
This is why idont own one , even with a shoe horn i couldnt get one in ;D
Let alone the batteries to run it ::)roll
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This is the vid for the exchanger clean , not sure i would use the acid he is but he does mention that specific acids are out there to get it done safe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ljHwrbQQE4
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This one shows how coked up they can get after little use
About 6 minutes onwards is what you want to see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wrfEuQKBIM
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When mine is under heater load it’s reading 12-9 because there healthy batteries,if it’s starts off at 12-5 then the heater kicks in it will drop down from that quickly if there only half charged.
Mine also will go up to 14-00 v more often than not but as I said 1 battery is not enough for a diesel heater you’ll drain it quickly. My bet is on the plates for the lack of heat your getting I reckon you change the plate you’ll get more heat, I did.
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im surprised that you didnt get 2 x105ah numax batteries fitted to run the grippa heater matt....i have the smart split charge relay AND charge my 2 batteries up overnight every night to keep the batteries in good nick......
mine read 12.6 AT THE END OF THE DAY (once ive turned my heater off and the batteries are not under load)with my van engine off and this is when ive been parked up for hours......
under load(at the end of the day) they can read 12.4 or even 12.3 if im reeling in at the same time as turning off the heater.....
with engine running my batteries will be reading between 13.7-14.1......
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At 12-3 12-5 they need a blast from the mains,I plugged the van in at the weekend it was still good before but just to be safe I charged them,pulling up at every job this week with the van off it’s been reading 13-1 13-4 then dropping to no less than 12-9 under load from the heater.
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At 12-3 12-5 they need a blast from the mains,I plugged the van in at the weekend it was still good before but just to be safe I charged them,pulling up at every job this week with the van off it’s been reading 13-1 13-4 then dropping to no less than 12-9 under load from the heater.
You sure you got a 9kw not a 5kw ;D
Supersonic heat and supersonic batteries all in one van :D
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
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Yay for Slacky ;D ;D ;D
Definately the best time to get another exact same battery , as the old one will pull the new one down .
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When you install 2 batteries inline together they should both be brand new.
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This time tomorrow they will.
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
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just as a matter of interest nigel/jonny.what is your temperature probe reading after 30 mins of recirculating back to the tank?im getting anywhere between 43c-51c even with a full 500L tank(depending on outside temp)
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just as a matter of interest nigel/jonny.what is your temperature probe reading after 30 mins of recirculating back to the tank?im getting anywhere between 43c-51c even with a full 500L tank(depending on outside temp)
That’s a lot hotter than mine mate.
I’m Running mine constantly back to the tank, and after 30 mins it will mayb go up to 25 degrees. It takes 3 or 4 hours to get to 50 degrees.
That doesn’t sound right to me. No way In 30 minutes could it heat up your tank to 40 degrees.
That would mean you could Stick your heating on for an hour in the morning and have a tank full of 50-60 degree water.
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Daz , where is this probe positioned ?
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just as a matter of interest nigel/jonny.what is your temperature probe reading after 30 mins of recirculating back to the tank?im getting anywhere between 43c-51c even with a full 500L tank(depending on outside temp)
That’s a lot hotter than mine mate.
I’m Running mine constantly back to the tank, and after 30 mins it will mayb go up to 25 degrees. It takes 3 or 4 hours to get to 50 degrees.
That doesn’t sound right to me. No way In 30 minutes could it heat up your tank to 40 degrees.
That would mean you could Stick your heating on for an hour in the morning and have a tank full of 50-60 degree water.
you ve got a 650 though mate.it probably takes longer......
first thing in the morning i turn my heater on and it might read say 7c on my temp gauge,by the time i get to work in 15 mins its reading 35c.....after lunch its 45c-51c!tank is warm to the touch and theres steam rising from the lid if i unscrew it....
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by lunchtime ive usually only got 250L left so that will make the temperature higher.....
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So where is this probe positioned within the system , and i assume its water temp and not the coolant ?
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Daz , where is this probe positioned ?
no idea rich!i didnt fit the heater! ;D
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So where is this probe positioned within the system , and i assume its water temp and not the coolant ?
oliver said its a water temp probe for the frost stat....(so when it reads 2c it kicks into life for 10 mins until it reaches 7c then turns itself off)
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Bloody Norah, it's complicated stuff this diesel heater malarky!!
It would be cheaper and less hassle to fill up from a hot tap! ;D
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Daz , where is this probe positioned ?
no idea rich!i didnt fit the heater! ;D
Fat load of feckin good you are mate ;D ;D ;D
If you had told me that the probe was on the outlet of the tank then I would be willing to purchase one , I might even consider the 5kw as I only have 300/350 to heat , I wouldnt even bother with any batteries or split charge system , I would just fire it up with the engine running and when the amps dropped back switch van off and let the system do its thing for an hour while im eating brekky .
But thats too good to be true for me until I know where that probe is !
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I would guess that the probe is after the hot water outlet of the plate exchanger in effect giving you the temp of the water being produced at the time , and the best place to be for frost stat use , the exchanger is going to break long before the burner in the event of frost .
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I would guess that the probe is after the hot water outlet of the plate exchanger in effect giving you the temp of the water being produced at the time , and the best place to be for frost stat use , the exchanger is going to break long before the burner in the event of frost .
No mate, the probe is the coldest part of
Your system. It’s positioned on the outlet of the pump, before it goes into the heat exchanger. Essentially giving you the temp of your tank water.
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I would guess that the probe is after the hot water outlet of the plate exchanger in effect giving you the temp of the water being produced at the time , and the best place to be for frost stat use , the exchanger is going to break long before the burner in the event of frost .
Its the temperature probe that connects to the Spring Frostat controller.
It was plumbed into the hot outlet from the heat exchanger to the hose reel on the Heatwave. It measured the temperature of the water after it left the temperature control valve. It was inside the cabinet. When the temperature drops to 2 degrees the Froststat triggers the boiler which runs for 10 minutes. Hot water circulates through the heat exchangers and header tank before returning to the boiler for another boost of heat.
If the controller is also switched on and the hose reel connected to the van's tank, warm water will also circulate for 10 minutes to the van's tank. Either way, one side of the heat exchanger is protected against frost with antifreeze, but the warmth in the heat exchanger will also protect the other side which hasn't got antifreeze in the water.
This is a Frost stat instruction manual for an older model controller.
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
If your going to spend the money that these heaters cost on a 5kw you may as well just pay the extra 400 + vat for the 9kw.
I know your a tight arse P@F ;D but even you may see its probably the better option really for the sake of a few hundred more.
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
It can't be because the temperature at the brush end(with 100m of coiled hose) is 60c+ when the temp probe is reading 40c-50c......
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
If your going to spend the money that these heaters cost on a 5kw you may as well just pay the extra 400 + vat for the 9kw.
I know your a tight arse P@F ;D but even you may see its probably the better option really for the sake of a few hundred more.
You know me well , but not that well ;D ;D ;D,
If it comes to light that its a possible goer , I sure as poop wont be buying one , I shall be making my own ;)
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
It can't be because the temperature at the brush end(with 100m of coiled hose) is 60c+ when the temp probe is reading 40c-50c......
Yeah...... the grippa set up goes
Tank outlet (cold)
Pump (cold)
Temperature probe (cold)
Heat exchanger (hot)
Reel (hot)
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
If your going to spend the money that these heaters cost on a 5kw you may as well just pay the extra 400 + vat for the 9kw.
I know your a tight arse P@F ;D but even you may see its probably the better option really for the sake of a few hundred more.
You know me well , but not that well ;D ;D ;D,
If it comes to light that its a possible goer , I sure as poop wont be buying one , I shall be making my own ;)
I'll look out for a bang and a big cloud of smoke one day then ;D ;D
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
If you relook at the video clip you posted a link to with those 2 guys heating up that bucket of water. Try to work out how much water was in that bucket of water and how long you thought it took them to heat it up to the point the boiler cut off - 77 degrees C.
If the bucket holds 10 liters then you project the time it took to heat 10 liters by 50.
Thats a little longer than 30 minutes even heating it to half of the temperature they heated the water to in that bucket.
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Daz , where is this probe positioned ?
Mine is mounted on the tank frame and is about 4 inches long and round in shape and black in colour
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
If your going to spend the money that these heaters cost on a 5kw you may as well just pay the extra 400 + vat for the 9kw.
I know your a tight arse P@F ;D but even you may see its probably the better option really for the sake of a few hundred more.
Just found myself a used 9kw from a boat owner who bought it and rarely used it so decided to sell. £500 including header tank. Got a uk exchangers limited plate exchanger on the way from someone who fitted it to a system to find it didn’t fix the problem. Bigger than the Webasto own heat exchanger for £40
Hoping to have it together eventually 2 man with a frost stat for under £1000. Just need a grippatank case to put it in. ;D ;) or find someone who can make me a aluminium case with my business name stamped out
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What you Grippa guys need is one of these , not lab grade but ball park temps can be gotten just by pointing the laser at what you want to know the temp of , only 2 days delivery too !
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun/391451014419?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
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I've noticed that when I'm working that the temperature probe will go down to around 25c from say 45c within an hour(I don't have a second pump constantly recirculating hot water back to tank while working)......
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So with what Jonny and Spruce have just said , the temp readings that Daz and Jonny are giving for the Grippa system is water temp from the bottom of the tank shortly before it goes down the reel hose ?
If Daz is getting 40/50 at this point after 30 minutes with a 500 tank then is it feasable that I could get near that with 1 hour preheat through my 350 .........yes or no ?
I forgot to say ...with a 5kw not a 9kw !
If you relook at the video clip you posted a link to with those 2 guys heating up that bucket of water. Try to work out how much water was in that bucket of water and how long you thought it took them to heat it up to the point the boiler cut off - 77 degrees C.
If the bucket holds 10 liters then you project the time it took to heat 10 liters by 50.
Thats a little longer than 30 minutes even heating it to half of the temperature they heated the water to in that bucket.
All I know is that within 30 mins my temp probe is reading 40-50c after reading say 10c just as I start my heater up first thing in the morning.....
Tomorrow I'll take a few pics of the starting temp and 30 mins after turning on the heater....
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Would putting an ampmeter on it help to indicate anything might be wonky?
I dont think the batt will be the problem , the heater wont start at all if voltage goes too low ........to test it you can use your smart charger as a power supply , you can on my ctek anyway .
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Daz , where is this probe positioned ?
no idea rich!i didnt fit the heater! ;D
Fat load of feckin good you are mate ;D ;D ;D
If you had told me that the probe was on the outlet of the tank then I would be willing to purchase one , I might even consider the 5kw as I only have 300/350 to heat , I wouldnt even bother with any batteries or split charge system , I would just fire it up with the engine running and when the amps dropped back switch van off and let the system do its thing for an hour while im eating brekky .
But thats too good to be true for me until I know where that probe is !
Trouble with your idea of running heater off van battery is on frosty nights the frost stat will drain your van battery, especially if van is parked up for 2 or 3 nights over a frosty weekend.
You would need to run a lead out to van to keep the battery charged up overnight.
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Running a cable isnt really a safe option for me , if it was I would be on immersion .
Having a diesel is to try to get away from my gas L5
As I said ealier , if I get one it will be the basic parts to self build , I dont need the frost stat as im way down in the SouthWest , couple of duvets is all I use at most .
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Mine is the perfect option for you if you want to self build then all parts are here waiting for you to pick em up m8,give me 650 90% of the parts are less than a year old.
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Including cabinet
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Is this the longest thread ever on CIU? :)
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Is this the longest thread ever on CIU? :)
No, we once had a thread on here about WFP V Trad, it went on for 717 pages.
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I dont care. Ive got two new batteries on my kit and it works a dream! ;)
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I dont care. Ive got two new batteries on my kit and it works a dream! ;)
good stuff matt.....so you re getting a consistently hotter temperature now since you replaced a battery and added another? ;)
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Including cabinet
I’m looking for a cabinet only 😂
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No, I realised halfway through the convo on here yesterday that there were 2 110A batteries but because I’ve not charged them up enough since the kit was finished they’ve just not been up to the job. One of them was hidden round the far side of the tank, so I’d forgotten about it - out of sight out of mind. So today they were both removed and replaced with two brand new ones.
Result is that the water coming out the reel within 15 minutes is too hot to put your hand under. Result!
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No, I realised halfway through the convo on here yesterday that there were 2 110A batteries but because I’ve not charged them up enough since the kit was finished they’ve just not been up to the job. One of them was hidden round the far side of the tank, so I’d forgotten about it - out of sight out of mind. So today they were both removed and replaced with two brand new ones.
Result is that the water coming out the reel within 15 minutes is too hot to put your hand under. Result!
thats why i charge mine up every night matt despite having the grippa smart charge split relay wired in as well........keeps the batteries in good nick.... esp during the colder winter months....
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You can have the cabinet for 650 then just imagine the other bits are free lol
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Mine is the perfect option for you if you want to self build then all parts are here waiting for you to pick em up m8,give me 650 90% of the parts are less than a year old.
Thanks for the offer NWH , very fair price , but I am going to have to build a totally different kind of setup , I cannot accomodate or mains charge 2 x110 ampers , what I hope to build is going to have to run for all my working day off a Numax 85 MF battery , which will need to run my delivery system and power reel too .
See that flying pig up there ;D ;D ;D
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Mine is the perfect option for you if you want to self build then all parts are here waiting for you to pick em up m8,give me 650 90% of the parts are less than a year old.
Thanks for the offer NWH , very fair price , but I am going to have to build a totally different kind of setup , I cannot accomodate or mains charge 2 x110 ampers , what I hope to build is going to have to run for all my working day off a Numax 85 MF battery , which will need to run my delivery system and power reel too .
See that flying pig up there ;D ;D ;D
your vans too small too rich.....better just stick to the gas heater set up esp as you cant run a lead to your van(ive seen where you have to park your van in relation to your house)......
hows the solar charging going during these gloomy winter days?do you have to take your battery indoors for a charge most nights?
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Mine is the perfect option for you if you want to self build then all parts are here waiting for you to pick em up m8,give me 650 90% of the parts are less than a year old.
Thanks for the offer NWH , very fair price , but I am going to have to build a totally different kind of setup , I cannot accomodate or mains charge 2 x110 ampers , what I hope to build is going to have to run for all my working day off a Numax 85 MF battery , which will need to run my delivery system and power reel too .
See that flying pig up there ;D ;D ;D
your vans too small too rich.....better just stick to the gas heater set up esp as you cant run a lead to your van(ive seen where you have to park your van in relation to your house)......
hows the solar charging going during these gloomy winter days?do you have to take your battery indoors for a charge most nights?
No, because his starter battery and his leisure battery are the same leisure battery. So it gets to start the van and run his pump. His leisure battery not only is charged by his alternator when he is driving, the solar panels charge his battery when the van is stationary. He has the best of all worlds - atm. :D
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Im glad you asked that Daz ;D
My solar install was a great success , my battery has not left the van since 15th Jan 2018 , so soon to be a year without it seeing the light of day or a mains charger , I dont miss lugging that out every night !
Plus by going self diesel I will actually save weight , full bottle , boiler , and plumbing comes to around 40kg , my planned system wont be close to that .
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Yeh , what Spruce said ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Come on Daz , how long we known each other ?
You should know me by now mate , I have a goal , I will shoot and I will score , Shamoawn MF ;D ;D ;D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543534535_DD94795E-0171-4F0F-8494-918025755991.png)
Another one of these on Facebook.
Honestly it’s a matter of time before someone’s van goes up in flames.
Do yourselves a favour and get an interest free credit card, pay a diesel heater off in a year. Job done.
;D
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Mounted on chipboard , at a pi55ed angle , no wonder it went up !
I dont get why the back door is the place of choice for lots of people either ?
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Mounted on chipboard , at a pi55ed angle , no wonder it went up !
I dont get why the back door is the place of choice for lots of people either ?
I know. It’s where i see most people put them these days.
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Mounted on chipboard , at a pi55ed angle , no wonder it went up !
I dont get why the back door is the place of choice for lots of people either ?
To be honest the angle wont have anything to do with it.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543534535_DD94795E-0171-4F0F-8494-918025755991.png)
Another one of these on Facebook.
Honestly it’s a matter of time before someone’s van goes up in flames.
Do yourselves a favour and get an interest free credit card, pay a diesel heater off in a year. Job done.
;D
his tank looks nice and safe too! ;D....it reminds me of my first wfp van! ::)roll ;D
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I think the angle is very important , look at the top edge of the chipboard , thats burnt black !
Why would you mount so its out in the wind , gonna blow out , we just had a storm come through ???
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The problem is that these heaters get banded about as easy and cheap hot water.
People do a little bit of research and then stick one In their van.
There’s more and more wfp window cleaners as each year goes by, it’s just a matter of time before one goes kaboom. It may of happened already and we don’t know about it.
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I’m not worried about the boiler going up , I always mount it on the water tank so it should put itself out 🤣
As for the bottle , if that goes bang then don’t bother sending me a Christmas card this year 😆😆
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I’m not worried about the boiler going up , I always mount it on the water tank so it should put itself out 🤣
As for the bottle , if that goes bang then don’t bother sending me a Christmas card this year 😆😆
Don’t joke about these things. ;D
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[/quote]
No, because his starter battery and his leisure battery are the same leisure battery. So it gets to start the van and run his pump. His leisure battery not only is charged by his alternator when he is driving, the solar panels charge his battery when the van is stationary. He has the best of all worlds - atm. :D
[/quote)
ATM 😯.
Where is the faith Spruce 😁
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im so glad im not messing about with gas bottles and shower heaters anymore........
i just press a button after starting my van first thing in the morning and 15 mins later ive got piping hot water for my first job of the day.....lovely....its well worth the £20 a week in diesel to heat my water.......
on monday ive got a fairly large job to clean first thing (a full f/s/g clean plus windows)a 3 hour job i reckon,its filthy! ;Dthe hot water will defo help.... :)
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I’m not sure how I managed to work this week messing about with my gas heater, Monday morning I filled it up at the petrol station£9.75, I switch it on at the start of the day and switched it off at the end of the day , very time exhuming, been doing this for 6 years now and luckily still cleaned some windows in between 😀
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I’m not sure how I managed to work this week messing about with my gas heater, Monday morning I filled it up at the petrol station£9.75, I switch it on at the start of the day and switched it off at the end of the day , very time exhuming, been doing this for 6 years now and luckily still cleaned some windows in between 😀
This is what I was meant to be doing , I had my eye on one of them little red cylinders , gas it I think they are called , would have fitted nice where the spare should be underneath , that got scuppered though as the Calor depot I drive past every day did away with the forecourt pump they had ???
I dont know of any garage even remotely close to me that does it on tap !
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No, because his starter battery and his leisure battery are the same leisure battery. So it gets to start the van and run his pump. His leisure battery not only is charged by his alternator when he is driving, the solar panels charge his battery when the van is stationary. He has the best of all worlds - atm. :D
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ATM 😯.
Where is the faith Spruce 😁
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Plenty of faith, but once you start adding diesel heaters and electric hose reels then power demand increases. Then you will want a microwave to heat some water up for coffee and a fridge to keep the milk cold. Also an induction hob so you can cook yourself some breakfast occassionally and finally an electric flush loo so you aren't caught short with council loo closures.
I know, because I would love a van with all these amenities. I would also like a comfortable rest area where I can retreat to and put my feet up for half an hour. And it goes without saying that it should be warm in winter. ;D
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I’m not sure how I managed to work this week messing about with my gas heater, Monday morning I filled it up at the petrol station£9.75, I switch it on at the start of the day and switched it off at the end of the day , very time exhuming, been doing this for 6 years now and luckily still cleaned some windows in between 😀
This is what I was meant to be doing , I had my eye on one of them little red cylinders , gas it I think they are called , would have fitted nice where the spare should be underneath , that got scuppered though as the Calor depot I drive past every day did away with the forecourt pump they had ???
I dont know of any garage even remotely close to me that does it on tap !
LPG was the flavour of the month at one time but is going out of fashion now. We had a Jet garage a couple of miles away but they shut it down as there was no demand. The next one is 4 miles away and I have never seen anyone using it. I have always said that Gasit cylinders and tanks are the way to go but with LPG pumps disappearing off forecourts this would be a concern for me considering the financial outlay.
The tanks should have a inspection certificate issued by a qualified person every year and when they are 10 years old they have to be scrapped.
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I’m not sure how I managed to work this week messing about with my gas heater, Monday morning I filled it up at the petrol station£9.75, I switch it on at the start of the day and switched it off at the end of the day , very time exhuming, been doing this for 6 years now and luckily still cleaned some windows in between 😀
These gas heaters in general have lasted very well. One of the local lads still has his; its 7 years old and still going strong.
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I think mine is either 7 or 8 in January , I have definately had my moneys worth out of it !
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543534535_DD94795E-0171-4F0F-8494-918025755991.png)
Another one of these on Facebook.
Honestly it’s a matter of time before someone’s van goes up in flames.
Do yourselves a favour and get an interest free credit card, pay a diesel heater off in a year. Job done.
;D
Personally I would remove it and put it in a skip . Cannot help notice that you have it mounted on chip board as well not a good idear as it’s flamable and contained glue that when it gets hot releases poisonous fumes , it should be mounted on a non flamable surface such as master board or similar , it has been illegal to mount boilers in this way in houses for many years as in the event of a fire it will exasibate the problem with spreading heat and fire
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I think he might have already worked that one out Splash ;D ;D ;D
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wow that took some reading .......14 pages of willy waving 4 pages of spruce and his big brain lol ;D
can i ask a few questions what really matters ..... you invest xyz in hot water in cash terms per day / week / month are you better off with buying it ? in turn how long before you get you money back ? and start to see real profit on xyz
how long does the warranty last on these is it three years ? parts and labor ?? again more cost if its only a year
surely if you spending 25k of a full new system and van you must have these numbers to hand compared to ruining the old unit you got rid of ?
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wow that took some reading .......14 pages of willy waving 4 pages of spruce and his big brain lol ;D
can i ask a few questions what really matters ..... you invest xyz in hot water in cash terms per day / week / month are you better off with buying it ? in turn how long before you get you money back ? and start to see real profit on xyz
how long does the warranty last on these is it three years ? parts and labor ?? again more cost if its only a year
surely if you spending 25k of a full new system and van you must have these numbers to hand compared to ruining the old unit you got rid of ?
Warranty is a year parts and labour depending who you buy stuff off
How much time does it save , that depends on the type of work you are doing on salty costal work and one off cleans and first cleans I find it halves the time taken
Is it worth the money in my book yes I would never go back to cold I was cold wfp for 10 years and hot for the last 4 , with hind sight I would have gone hot long before
To work out how much more you can earn using hot is impossible say again depends what work you are doing if you are doing first cleans evey day a huge time saving is made if doing 4 weekly maintenance cleans then less time saved but removing seagull poo , salt , fly dirts, bee pollen etc on maintenance cleans does make it quicker it’s also quicker during the winter months as the hoses are far more manageable
We do a lot of large commercial work on hotels : nursing homes : industrial building cleaning , plastic cleans especially on plastic cleans we are regularly 30-40% quicker , I know this as we do dozens of identical properties with hot that took 30-40 % longer to do with cold also using hot you don’t have to use chemicals so the cost of hot saves that cost . There will always be those that are sceptical and say hot isn’t needed , I was one of those people for years now having used it for 4 years I can see how much quicker and better it is , some of my staff before working for me worked for other cleaners using cold and every one of them sais that hot is far better and quicker .
Running costs are high I reckon it burns 1:5 ltr per hour x that by 40 hours a week it’s not cheap but again as far as Ime conserved it’s a cheap price to pay for the extra work we do in a week , if you are a sole trader earning £100 a day you arnt going to make it pay , but if you are an established sole trader or bigger company earning £250 per day upwards it’s a no brainier
As for maintenance costs mine is now 4 years old it runs a minimum of 8 hours a day 5 days a week and I haven’t spent a penny on it so far , Ime no mathematician but think that’s around 8,000 running hours working on a 48 week year ?.. if it goes bang tomorrow I don’t think that’s expensive considering what I have arnt over that time
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For me using my lpg heater , I don’t think I do earn anymore money, I’m sure I would do the same amount using cold, for me it definitely makes my working day better and would always use hot
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Im the same , I wouldnt say it makes me more , it does clean the crud faster , but that is of no benefit to me as when I have finished my list I go home , I dont cram more in just because I have finished sooner , I will if I know its gonna pi55 down the next day though , but thats common sense .
My L5 comes out as soon as winter has done one , why spend more than I have to in summer .
For me its warm hands and softer hoses in the cold , but if my proposed DIY diesel goes as planned then it will stay in all year round mainly for the odd first cleans .
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Im the same , I wouldnt say it makes me more , it does clean the crud faster , but that is of no benefit to me as when I have finished my list I go home , I dont cram more in just because I have finished sooner , I will if I know its gonna pi55 down the next day though , but thats common sense .
My L5 comes out as soon as winter has done one , why spend more than I have to in summer .
For me its warm hands and softer hoses in the cold , but if my proposed DIY diesel goes as planned then it will stay in all year round mainly for the odd first cleans .
If you are only going to use it for an occasional first clean it’s not worth the effort stick to the cold , we use hot all year round as In summer months baked on bird poo bee pollen fly dirt comes off so much quicker
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wow that took some reading .......14 pages of willy waving 4 pages of spruce and his big brain lol ;D
can i ask a few questions what really matters ..... you invest xyz in hot water in cash terms per day / week / month are you better off with buying it ? in turn how long before you get you money back ? and start to see real profit on xyz
how long does the warranty last on these is it three years ? parts and labor ?? again more cost if its only a year
surely if you spending 25k of a full new system and van you must have these numbers to hand compared to ruining the old unit you got rid of ?
i bought my diesel heater for safety,comfort and ease of use and not having to remember to put a heater in the back of my van on freezing cold nights........its great...i wish id of got one years ago than messing about with gas heaters and gas bottles,aquarium heaters,oil filled radiators etc but i couldnt afford one at the time.......
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Im the same , I wouldnt say it makes me more , it does clean the crud faster , but that is of no benefit to me as when I have finished my list I go home , I dont cram more in just because I have finished sooner , I will if I know its gonna pi55 down the next day though , but thats common sense .
My L5 comes out as soon as winter has done one , why spend more than I have to in summer .
For me its warm hands and softer hoses in the cold , but if my proposed DIY diesel goes as planned then it will stay in all year round mainly for the odd first cleans .
If you are only going to use it for an occasional first clean it’s not worth the effort stick to the cold , we use hot all year round as In summer months baked on bird poo bee pollen fly dirt comes off so much quicker
I am not paying 4k , I am not paying 2k , I am not even paying 1k ;D ;D ;D
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No Daz, you bought yours because you haven’t got a life ;D you had a gas heater and even posted what a waste of money hot water was, posted how it was no quicker and how there was no need for it. Even posted how useless extreme poles were and how you were going back to an SLX. A week or two later and you couldn’t help yourself! It’s all you live for, cleaning feckin windows. Now you’ve bought all the most expensive kit on tick, what next? Another leather jacket?
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No Daz, you bought yours because you haven’t got a life ;D you had a gas heater and even posted what a waste of money hot water was, posted how it was no quicker and how there was no need for it. Even posted how useless extreme poles were and how you were going back to an SLX. A week or two later and you couldn’t help yourself! It’s all you live for, cleaning feckin windows. Now you’ve bought all the most expensive kit on tick, what next? Another leather jacket?
that did make me laugh! ;D ;D ;D ;D
1.hot water obviously cleans better and easier than cold water,i was kidding myself after my scare with my gas heater.
2.theres no need for hot water..... you can clean with cold but why would you want too if you can afford a hot water system?its much nicer to work with esp during the winter months,first cleans and add on jobs.....plus you dont have to worry about freezing hoses/jets,pumps etc.....
3.i got fed up with xtreme sections snapping so briefly went back to SLX poles for a year but obviously xtreme poles make your day even easier.......its the awkward angle windows(i have a lot of em on certain parts of my round!)that you really notice a big difference....
4.i paid the £4,500 for my heater on my interest free credit card,i paid 3k off it straight away and then £500 a month for 3 months so it was paid off by march this year.... :)
5.i was rehearsing last night with my band as we have 2 gigs this xmas(one in a couple of weeks and one on new years eve)so drumming is one of my main hobbies as well as bodybuilding.... :).....plus we get paid cash for making music!
6.i actually spend a lot less time window cleaning than i used too....its virtually a part time job these days as ive got more organised,efficient and better equipment(as well as even more compact work).......
7.my life is just fine as it is dave...i feel so lucky to be a window cleaner TBH mate......... ;D 8)
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I don’t feel it improves productivity would you give websto heater to staff, I’m not sure, maybe you want them to have hot to keep working but it’s expensive especially when we don’t get so many unworkable days from cold weather
It certainly makes first cleans much easier especially green frames
I do the same amount of Work now as with the short period without hot water, as little as possibly
And I’m really sorry I’m just going to disagree with what everyone seems to say
I find hot hoses a absolute pain in the backside they stick to everything they fold on corner walls easier, winding in when it’s so hot is a nightmare they stay dirtier with mud as it’s dried on hose , maybe I should get the hot thermo hot not sure yet
I prefer winding cold hose to wind in, even though it’s just pressing a button, Hot hose annoys me so much , (side issues issue worn out first motor on electric hose reel, was changed over yesterday. Just over couple years old now, it just slowly lost it’s power until it needed little help to wind in )!
And I just wanted to add to length of thread LOL
I’ve been playing about with heater yesterday as I don’t normally put it to recirculate when driving around
? Nigel question, when you set yours up to recirculate, before you head off in morning. am I correct in thinking yours it at same flow rate you work with during day or do you start it off on a slow flow and then turn to working flow or something different
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I don’t feel it improves productivity would you give websto heater to staff, I’m not sure, maybe you want them to have hot to keep working but it’s expensive especially when we don’t get so many unworkable days from cold weather
It certainly makes first cleans much easier especially green frames
I do the same amount of Work now as with the short period without hot water, as little as possibly
And I’m really sorry I’m just going to disagree with what everyone seems to say
I find hot hoses a absolute pain in the backside they stick to everything they fold on corner walls easier, winding in when it’s so hot is a nightmare they stay dirtier with mud as it’s dried on hose , maybe I should get the hot thermo hot not sure yet
I prefer winding cold hose to wind in, even though it’s just pressing a button, Hot hose annoys me so much , (side issues issue worn out first motor on electric hose reel, was changed over yesterday. Just over couple years old now, it just slowly lost it’s power until it needed little help to wind in )!
And I just wanted to add to length of thread LOL
I’ve been playing about with heater yesterday as I don’t normally put it to recirculate when driving around
? Nigel question, when you set yours up to recirculate, before you head off in morning. am I correct in thinking yours it at same flow rate you work with during day or do you start it off on a slow flow and then turn to working flow or something different
hot hoses more of a pain than cold hoses?really? ::)roll
....stick to cold then.....i think your bonkers though! ;D
whatever works for you!
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it makes zero difference whether you have your flow on lower than your working flow when your recirculate back to tank between jobs....i just keep mine on 40 all the time.....
so are you saying you let your heater shut down all the time between jobs?this IS NOT a good way to run these heaters!no wonder your waters not getting very hot! ::)roll...i run mine all day and dont let it shut down until after the last job of the day and i only use around £20 a week in diesel to heat my water.....
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Thanks Daz
I’ve always run my last heater that way, from about 2005 till 2015 , I changed burners twice in that period, it’s still in use with a friend with same burners, so not a bad way to use them
I used cold for while as winters were getting milder and I was working less, and not sure direction I was going in
I’m just interested in how others are using them,
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Thanks Daz
I’ve always run my last heater that way, from about 2005 till 2015 , I changed burners twice in that period, it’s still in use with a friend with same burners, so not a bad way to use them
I used cold for while as winters were getting milder and I was working less, and not sure direction I was going in
I’m just interested in how others are using them,
Anthony while it makes a welcome change to actually read a sensible review on this subject I find other than winding them up for a laugh its best to let Dazmond and the rest of the hobby shiners get on with it.
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If you run your water back to tank on 10 it’ll be way hotter than it would on your working flow,as for hot water not being better than cold I can’t understand why anyone would say that. I don’t think or know if you have the pro90 in your heater Tony but it’s way better than the Varitech versions it’s the same as the Ionic’s heater.
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Thanks Daz
I’ve always run my last heater that way, from about 2005 till 2015 , I changed burners twice in that period, it’s still in use with a friend with same burners, so not a bad way to use them
I used cold for while as winters were getting milder and I was working less, and not sure direction I was going in
I’m just interested in how others are using them,
You might not have had to change the burners if you ran it on full blast all day rather than letting it shut down all the time....
Oliver said the best way was to run them flat out all day every day to keep the burners clean....
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If you run your water back to tank on 10 it’ll be way hotter than it would on your working flow,as for hot water not being better than cold I can’t understand why anyone would say that. I don’t think or know if you have the pro90 in your heater Tony but it’s way better than the Varitech versions it’s the same as the Ionic’s heater.
I've tried it on 10 and my normal 40 when recirculating and it makes no difference IMO Nigel....I'm still getting 60c+ at brush head with 100m of coiled hose whether it's on 10 or 40......
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Thanks Daz
I’ve always run my last heater that way, from about 2005 till 2015 , I changed burners twice in that period, it’s still in use with a friend with same burners, so not a bad way to use them
I used cold for while as winters were getting milder and I was working less, and not sure direction I was going in
I’m just interested in how others are using them,
Anthony while it makes a welcome change to actually read a sensible review on this subject I find other than winding them up for a laugh its best to let Dazmond and the rest of the hobby shiners get on with it.
"Hobby shiners" ::)roll ;D......I've probably got more hobbies than you sean(that are nothing to do with window cleaning!)....... ;D
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Tony you didnt have a heater in 2005.
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If you run your water back to tank on 10 it’ll be way hotter than it would on your working flow,as for hot water not being better than cold I can’t understand why anyone would say that. I don’t think or know if you have the pro90 in your heater Tony but it’s way better than the Varitech versions it’s the same as the Ionic’s heater.
When I had my pure freedom 9kw system I found that when recirculating the most effective way was to start on a low flow rate then slowly keep increasing the flow rate as the water was heating up.
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Thanks Nigel and others
There certainly quieter and more economic than the previous model that varistream used and one from another company’s called outreach don’t know if his still about
I’m not sure which one I have it’s from grippa in there black plastic cabinet, two man 9.6 or 9.8 or something as to which model can’t read the writing on heater, same as most of you I guess,
last winter had few issues then summer came, but it’s rectified now , a wire on the loom wasn’t man enough for the current and kept triggering a low power shut down and false voltage reading, but grippa via a local wabasto engenier spend a day tracing issue, so fair play to both companies
I was just testing it out yesterday as but really had a chance
So it was always on recirculating under the test and batteries fully charged,
30 minutes flow of 20, both reels got up to 31 one side 33 the other
Then for 1 hour on recirculate with flow 10’ got up to 37 one side the other 39
Then set flow at 55 which is just under my working flow of 60 for 30 minutes rose both sides to 43
Batteries still at about 12.9 both 110amp one month old
So I’m perplexed as to the temps some say there getting at the brush head, for me it’s hot at brush head but I still can hold hand under quite easily, unless no sense no feeling in my hands
Hence an interest in what everyone’s doing to solve my dilemmas
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No Daz, you bought yours because you haven’t got a life ;D you had a gas heater and even posted what a waste of money hot water was, posted how it was no quicker and how there was no need for it. Even posted how useless extreme poles were and how you were going back to an SLX. A week or two later and you couldn’t help yourself! It’s all you live for, cleaning feckin windows. Now you’ve bought all the most expensive kit on tick, what next? Another leather jacket?
The best one for me is that now Daz has a van with heated seats, he now takes every opportunity to mention it ::)roll
Any thread with people asking about vans and Daz is like ‘also get heated seats, there amazing’
I just sit there and read it and think ‘yeah Daz, I’ve had heated seats for ages in my custom, but I don’t feel the need to keep going on about it, it’s hardly a rare luxury’
Just winding you up Daz. ;D
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If it’s reading temp from the frost probe the heat output won’t be accurate are you reading it from a hand held meter,you can’t hold your hand under mine it’s too hot.
If I recirculate my water on a flow of 10 it will spit out the brush as it’s so hot I can’t speak for others that are using these heaters but as I’ve said previously I won’t be able to use mine on Max it will be to hot when the temperature eventually drops and we are into real what I call winter in rural areas.
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Thanks Nigel and others
There certainly quieter and more economic than the previous model that varistream used and one from another company’s called outreach don’t know if his still about
I’m not sure which one I have it’s from grippa in there black plastic cabinet, two man 9.6 or 9.8 or something as to which model can’t read the writing on heater, same as most of you I guess,
last winter had few issues then summer came, but it’s rectified now , a wire on the loom wasn’t man enough for the current and kept triggering a low power shut down and false voltage reading, but grippa via a local wabasto engenier spend a day tracing issue, so fair play to both companies
I was just testing it out yesterday as but really had a chance
So it was always on recirculating under the test and batteries fully charged,
30 minutes flow of 20, both reels got up to 31 one side 33 the other
Then for 1 hour on recirculate with flow 10’ got up to 37 one side the other 39
Then set flow at 55 which is just under my working flow of 60 for 30 minutes rose both sides to 43
Batteries still at about 12.9 both 110amp one month old
So I’m perplexed as to the temps some say there getting at the brush head, for me it’s hot at brush head but I still can hold hand under quite easily, unless no sense no feeling in my hands
Hence an interest in what everyone’s doing to solve my dilemmas
try it after 30 mins recirculating on full heat setting with 100m of coiled hose...mine reads 60c-62c at the brush end with a hand held meter...too hot to keep your hand under it....
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No Daz, you bought yours because you haven’t got a life ;D you had a gas heater and even posted what a waste of money hot water was, posted how it was no quicker and how there was no need for it. Even posted how useless extreme poles were and how you were going back to an SLX. A week or two later and you couldn’t help yourself! It’s all you live for, cleaning feckin windows. Now you’ve bought all the most expensive kit on tick, what next? Another leather jacket?
The best one for me is that now Daz has a van with heated seats, he now takes every opportunity to mention it ::)roll
Any thread with people asking about vans and Daz is like ‘also get heated seats, there amazing’
I just sit there and read it and think ‘yeah Daz, I’ve had heated seats for ages in my custom, but I don’t feel the need to keep going on about it, it’s hardly a rare luxury’
Just winding you up Daz. ;D
I think Daz has developed "window cleaning" Tourettes!! ;D
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If I’ve recirculated for 15-20 minutes and then fill a window cleaning bucket up with the water you would struggle to submerge your hand,I dipped my applicator cover it and tried ringing it out it almost scolded my hand.
This is what I’m trying to say the water is very very hot.
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And NWH "hot-hot water" Tourettes! ;D
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If I’ve recirculated for 15-20 minutes and then fill a window cleaning bucket up with the water you would struggle to submerge your hand,I dipped my applicator cover it and tried ringing it out it almost scolded my hand.
This is what I’m trying to say the water is very very hot.
Mines the same....however once you start unreeling your hose the temperature goes down so on a really cold day with 100m out it's nowhere near as hot at the brush end as when it's coiled up on the reel so it's fine for glass on a freezing cold day on full heat setting.....
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Lol yeah hot if it wasn’t producing the kind of temperature I was wanting or expecting I would have contacted Oliver.
Even in the damp dank conditions we’ve had lately the windows are pretty much dry after most jobs just the odd spot left on hydrophobic glass,next to nothing on the water loving stuff. I love having hot water and soft hoses you can’t beat watching the reel of hose giving off steam like it’s on fire 🔥 when it’s comeback in the van all coiled back up 😂
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Thanks Nigel
You showed me heat from your last one once, and that was extremely hot
Do you use a thermobore or standard microbore or mini bore and did you request a different webasto heater for Oliver or did you just have there standard one they sell
I use the frost stat probe to measure heat that’s provided and it’s in cabinet. not up by hose reel, which is by Far the best place as Already stated as In the cabinet it doesn’t come on soon enough when very cold and this year my hose froze one night
I guessed a slight drop through hose so it’s not more than 35-37 at very best at brush end possibly less when out around property
This heater just isn’t performing correctly I feel
I’ll contact Oliver as this isn’t that hot so something still isn’t quiet right in its performance
Thanks for your help
Tony
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
Battery life is dependant on a number of things .
Charging them up with a decent charger not all battery chargers are the same
Don’t run the batteries to low or it can and will do permanent damage to them
When I started off I had one 110 v Halfords battery it lasted 4 years , I put this down to charging it with a decent charger as friends were changing batteries evey year ,
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The frost stat can be put into the hose reel input it will still detect the cold in the van and it will come on when needed,I put mine there in the last heater so it not only worked as a frost stat but also gave me a correct reading on the controller.
I have a main hook up on mine which I think is essential with these that’s why I paid to have them install it earlier in the year,when I charge I know it’s doing it’s job I can look at the quality of the charge in the back of the van on the charging unit they installed.
Varitech say if they turn on they are working the heaters that is but I found this not to be so with my old heater,I found if I had better battery life it produced hotter water with loads of trial and error.
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Before the mains hookup unit I must have purchased 10-12 leisure batteries over the years thinking it was the problem,expensive mistake there a lot of people selling these heaters that don’t know enough about them.
You can’t get a webasto engineer to come to you they will tell you to go to them the nearest 1 to us is Edenbridge.
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I have two 200 amp gell heavy duty batteries on mine weigh a ton but never have any issues with the boiler flattening them 😂😂😂😂
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That’s good but you shouldn’t need that size you just need 2 good quality leisure batteries that are being charged correctly inline,especially if you have a heater electric reel and pump drawing from them everyday.
When I was using cold only with a split charge unit I used to have I would never need to bench charge batteries at all,the heater will kill batteries if they are not charged correctly.
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
Battery life is dependant on a number of things .
Charging them up with a decent charger not all battery chargers are the same
Don’t run the batteries to low or it can and will do permanent damage to them
When I started off I had one 110 v Halfords battery it lasted 4 years , I put this down to charging it with a decent charger as friends were changing batteries evey year ,
Yeah, if you're just running a window cleaning system they'll last years. I have 4 110amh in the garage that would be fine for a cold system but even two in parallel run out after about 6 hours running a hot system. Charged every night with a ctek m200. The Halfords batteries just don't like the workload and they are only rated for 80 charging cycles while the Numax is about 400 charging cycles.
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With the GrippaTank setup I have I only have to plug into the mains every few weeks,I also have there split charge setup.
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No removal of batteries I just plug into the side of the van for 10-12 hours when I do.
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
Battery life is dependant on a number of things .
Charging them up with a decent charger not all battery chargers are the same
Don’t run the batteries to low or it can and will do permanent damage to them
When I started off I had one 110 v Halfords battery it lasted 4 years , I put this down to charging it with a decent charger as friends were changing batteries evey year ,
Yeah, if you're just running a window cleaning system they'll last years. I have 4 110amh in the garage that would be fine for a cold system but even two in parallel run out after about 6 hours running a hot system. Charged every night with a ctek m200. The Halfords batteries just don't like the workload and they are only rated for 80 charging cycles while the Numax is about 400 charging cycles.
Well mine lasted 4 years charged evey night 5 days a week with the pump running 8 hours a day never had a problem that’s roughly 960 charges over 4 years on a 48 week working year I think
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543703204_daz2.jpg)
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
Battery life is dependant on a number of things .
Charging them up with a decent charger not all battery chargers are the same
Don’t run the batteries to low or it can and will do permanent damage to them
When I started off I had one 110 v Halfords battery it lasted 4 years , I put this down to charging it with a decent charger as friends were changing batteries evey year ,
Yeah, if you're just running a window cleaning system they'll last years. I have 4 110amh in the garage that would be fine for a cold system but even two in parallel run out after about 6 hours running a hot system. Charged every night with a ctek m200. The Halfords batteries just don't like the workload and they are only rated for 80 charging cycles while the Numax is about 400 charging cycles.
Well mine lasted 4 years charged evey night 5 days a week with the pump running 8 hours a day never had a problem that’s roughly 960 charges over 4 years on a 48 week working year I think
As I thought I had made clear, they are fine for window cleaning with cold. Add a Webasto and the higher daily drain and recharge kills them quicky. If your anecdotal experince is difference, knock yourself out and fill your boots. Me, I'll stick with Numax at the same price.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543703204_daz2.jpg)
Dont worry mate , you might be a bit slow ......but you will catch up eventually ;D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1543703204_daz2.jpg)
Dont worry mate , you might be a bit slow ......but you will catch up eventually ;D
Cant see it but coming on here helps with the illusion.lol
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
Battery life is dependant on a number of things .
Charging them up with a decent charger not all battery chargers are the same
Don’t run the batteries to low or it can and will do permanent damage to them
When I started off I had one 110 v Halfords battery it lasted 4 years , I put this down to charging it with a decent charger as friends were changing batteries evey year ,
Yeah, if you're just running a window cleaning system they'll last years. I have 4 110amh in the garage that would be fine for a cold system but even two in parallel run out after about 6 hours running a hot system. Charged every night with a ctek m200. The Halfords batteries just don't like the workload and they are only rated for 80 charging cycles while the Numax is about 400 charging cycles.
Ime not talking about hot and cold Ime talking about charge cycles over 900 not 80
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
Battery life is dependant on a number of things .
Charging them up with a decent charger not all battery chargers are the same
Don’t run the batteries to low or it can and will do permanent damage to them
When I started off I had one 110 v Halfords battery it lasted 4 years , I put this down to charging it with a decent charger as friends were changing batteries evey year ,
Yeah, if you're just running a window cleaning system they'll last years. I have 4 110amh in the garage that would be fine for a cold system but even two in parallel run out after about 6 hours running a hot system. Charged every night with a ctek m200. The Halfords batteries just don't like the workload and they are only rated for 80 charging cycles while the Numax is about 400 charging cycles.
Ime not talking about hot and cold Ime talking about charge cycles over 900 not 80
Thats fantastic for you but I found them to be less than satisfactory. Not sure what else I can say really. They are rated for 80 recharges, it's not something I've just made up. If you look through some posts Spruce made it's all explained in there.
Actually, it says it on the Halfords website, https://www.halfords.com/camping-leisure/caravan-motorhomes/electrical-power/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb681 under the specifications tab.
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Ive just bought a 110amp battery from Halfords. Fitted it in the car-park, alongside (in line) the existing battery.
So, its a 5 minute drive back from Halfords to my place and Id say the temp was markedly improved on the circulating water by the time I got back here. I suspect the original battery therefore isn't holding its charge, so probs time to change that one and have two brand new 110 amp units.
yep thatll do it matt....you should be fine for a few years now....even if you do a lot of driving with a split charge relay you should still bench charge once a week just to keep the batteries topped up,i charge mine every night due to very little mileage during my working day....
Not with two Halfords batteries he won't. I changed mine last October for two 110 amh Halfords batteries. I needed to change them again this October. I went Newmax this time.
I have 2 x 105ah numax batteries and a commercial numax charger as well as the smart split charge relay fitted to my hot system....had my system a year next Thursday,batteries are still fine and I think they will be for a few years yet.....
I've never used a Halfords battery for WFP.....I thought if there 110ah and charged regularly they'd last a few years...
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Thanks Nigel
You showed me heat from your last one once, and that was extremely hot
Do you use a thermobore or standard microbore or mini bore and did you request a different webasto heater for Oliver or did you just have there standard one they sell
I use the frost stat probe to measure heat that’s provided and it’s in cabinet. not up by hose reel, which is by Far the best place as Already stated as In the cabinet it doesn’t come on soon enough when very cold and this year my hose froze one night
I guessed a slight drop through hose so it’s not more than 35-37 at very best at brush end possibly less when out around property
This heater just isn’t performing correctly I feel
I’ll contact Oliver as this isn’t that hot so something still isn’t quiet right in its performance
Thanks for your help
Tony
On the adjuster for temp, you can adjust past the bump,stops
It’s quite easy but ask Oliver first to give correct instruction.
We loosen the screw in the middle, do not remove it or the temp dial will come off, once loose you can go to the max or minimum heat setting then carefully go past this by gently pulling out the dial, again without removing it or you can potentially dismantle the valve which is a nightmare. Once you get past the end stop push dial back on fully and retighten screw.
Oliver will be best to talk to first......I know nothing .....
Mr B
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I took out my needle valve and just had it on full heat, I changed the 2 inlets into the heat exchanger with male connections.
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Thanks Nigel
You showed me heat from your last one once, and that was extremely hot
Do you use a thermobore or standard microbore or mini bore and did you request a different webasto heater for Oliver or did you just have there standard one they sell
I use the frost stat probe to measure heat that’s provided and it’s in cabinet. not up by hose reel, which is by Far the best place as Already stated as In the cabinet it doesn’t come on soon enough when very cold and this year my hose froze one night
I guessed a slight drop through hose so it’s not more than 35-37 at very best at brush end possibly less when out around property
This heater just isn’t performing correctly I feel
I’ll contact Oliver as this isn’t that hot so something still isn’t quiet right in its performance
Thanks for your help
Tony
On the adjuster for temp, you can adjust past the bump,stops
It’s quite easy but ask Oliver first to give correct instruction.
We loosen the screw in the middle, do not remove it or the temp dial will come off, once loose you can go to the max or minimum heat setting then carefully go past this by gently pulling out the dial, again without removing it or you can potentially dismantle the valve which is a nightmare. Once you get past the end stop push dial back on fully and retighten screw.
Oliver will be best to talk to first......I know nothing .....
Mr B
I did something similar but the plastic dial came off!put it back on and it's been great ever since.....I always get 60c+ at brush end after 15 mins of turning the heater on with 100m of coiled hose....😀
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BUMP ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Always wanted to do that :D
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BUMP ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Always wanted to do that :D
Me too ;D ;D ;D
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So I’ve taken delivery of a Thermo 90s. I’ve wanted to see if I could run it on or a mix of waste oil. Starts and runs on 20% waste oil and 80% red diesel just the same as straight red diesel. I will update somewhere along the line if it needs servicing as a result.
Wouldn’t run on 50% on its own. But when the oil was heated with copper tube around its exhaust it ran as normal. No smoke out the exhaust either. So may rig up 2 tanks with a switch for running more waste oil when it’s warm
Should be cheaper to run than Propane and a lot safer.
Thought someone might find it interesting or useful as they don’t want to be putting alternative fuels in their £4.5 grippatank heaters. Will see how Kersene waste oil works 2
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Why are you bothering they are peanuts to run anyway,piping hot water for 20 notes a week roughly lol blimey.
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So I’ve taken delivery of a Thermo 90s. I’ve wanted to see if I could run it on or a mix of waste oil. Starts and runs on 20% waste oil and 80% red diesel just the same as straight red diesel. I will update somewhere along the line if it needs servicing as a result.
Wouldn’t run on 50% on its own. But when the oil was heated with copper tube around its exhaust it ran as normal. No smoke out the exhaust either. So may rig up 2 tanks with a switch for running more waste oil when it’s warm
Should be cheaper to run than Propane and a lot safer.
Thought someone might find it interesting or useful as they don’t want to be putting alternative fuels in their £4.5 grippatank heaters. Will see how Kersene waste oil works 2
itll probably cost you more on burners/servicing than the money youll save!but who knows you could be very successful in saving a couple of pound a week.....
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLUeCH_HE4Q
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLUeCH_HE4Q
Some of the comments on there were mine. Was trying to encourage the guy to give it a try before I put my money in to it all 😂 he hasn’t done a video of blends yet. I mentioned about preheating the veg oil. Same sort of thing in a 2 tank veg oil diesel vehicle conversion
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So I’ve taken delivery of a Thermo 90s. I’ve wanted to see if I could run it on or a mix of waste oil. Starts and runs on 20% waste oil and 80% red diesel just the same as straight red diesel. I will update somewhere along the line if it needs servicing as a result.
Wouldn’t run on 50% on its own. But when the oil was heated with copper tube around its exhaust it ran as normal. No smoke out the exhaust either. So may rig up 2 tanks with a switch for running more waste oil when it’s warm
Should be cheaper to run than Propane and a lot safer.
Thought someone might find it interesting or useful as they don’t want to be putting alternative fuels in their £4.5 grippatank heaters. Will see how Kersene waste oil works 2
itll probably cost you more on burners/servicing than the money youll save!but who knows you could be very successful in saving a couple of pound a week.....
Your right running 50% will only save £10 a week or £520 a year. But I also have loads of used oil sat around. I’m one of those people that likes to tinker and if I can do that using my business as the excuse then it is/or can be productive. Ie diy electric reel and diy lithium battery.
These things have made a difference to my business and I’ve learnt in the process.
Spending more money on servicing isn’t an issue for me. Because it would only be my time and possibly a gasket or sealant. So if I spend 2 days a year taking apart the burner instead of cleaning yet another window. Then I’m not loosing money and getting to tinker and learn something that interests me
I get it’s not for everyone. But someone will be interested if I can report back in a year my findings
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So I’ve taken delivery of a Thermo 90s. I’ve wanted to see if I could run it on or a mix of waste oil. Starts and runs on 20% waste oil and 80% red diesel just the same as straight red diesel. I will update somewhere along the line if it needs servicing as a result.
Wouldn’t run on 50% on its own. But when the oil was heated with copper tube around its exhaust it ran as normal. No smoke out the exhaust either. So may rig up 2 tanks with a switch for running more waste oil when it’s warm
Should be cheaper to run than Propane and a lot safer.
Thought someone might find it interesting or useful as they don’t want to be putting alternative fuels in their £4.5 grippatank heaters. Will see how Kersene waste oil works 2
itll probably cost you more on burners/servicing than the money youll save!but who knows you could be very successful in saving a couple of pound a week.....
Your right running 50% will only save £10 a week or £520 a year. But I also have loads of used oil sat around. I’m one of those people that likes to tinker and if I can do that using my business as the excuse then it is/or can be productive. Ie diy electric reel and diy lithium battery.
These things have made a difference to my business and I’ve learnt in the process.
Spending more money on servicing isn’t an issue for me. Because it would only be my time and possibly a gasket or sealant. So if I spend 2 days a year taking apart the burner instead of cleaning yet another window. Then I’m not loosing money and getting to tinker and learn something that interests me
I get it’s not for everyone. But someone will be interested if I can report back in a year my findings
I have over 8000 hours on my burner in 4 years never been serviced and runs sweet as a nut , it will be intresting to see how long it works for before needing a re build running on that mixture
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So I’ve taken delivery of a Thermo 90s. I’ve wanted to see if I could run it on or a mix of waste oil. Starts and runs on 20% waste oil and 80% red diesel just the same as straight red diesel. I will update somewhere along the line if it needs servicing as a result.
Wouldn’t run on 50% on its own. But when the oil was heated with copper tube around its exhaust it ran as normal. No smoke out the exhaust either. So may rig up 2 tanks with a switch for running more waste oil when it’s warm
Should be cheaper to run than Propane and a lot safer.
Thought someone might find it interesting or useful as they don’t want to be putting alternative fuels in their £4.5 grippatank heaters. Will see how Kersene waste oil works 2
itll probably cost you more on burners/servicing than the money youll save!but who knows you could be very successful in saving a couple of pound a week.....
Your right running 50% will only save £10 a week or £520 a year. But I also have loads of used oil sat around. I’m one of those people that likes to tinker and if I can do that using my business as the excuse then it is/or can be productive. Ie diy electric reel and diy lithium battery.
These things have made a difference to my business and I’ve learnt in the process.
Spending more money on servicing isn’t an issue for me. Because it would only be my time and possibly a gasket or sealant. So if I spend 2 days a year taking apart the burner instead of cleaning yet another window. Then I’m not loosing money and getting to tinker and learn something that interests me
I get it’s not for everyone. But someone will be interested if I can report back in a year my findings
each to their own mate......... ;)
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Melting ice off conservatories and velux windows today.
Still loving the hot water. ;D
My immersion used to do similar but not as quick. I’ve got it set for about 40 degrees at the brush head. Perfect. Nice toasty hands too.
Been sub zero all morning here.
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Melting ice off conservatories and velux windows today.
Still loving the hot water. ;D
My immersion used to do similar but not as quick. I’ve got it set for about 40 degrees at the brush head. Perfect. Nice toasty hands too.
Been sub zero all morning here.
Agree. It really helps this time of the year
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
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An immersion will not give the same sort of hot water you’ll get from a thermo90 or thermo top C series 300 heater,you’ll get warmqater throughout the day even if it’s insulated it’s cooling down as soon as you leave the house.
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Melting ice off conservatories and velux windows today.
Still loving the hot water. ;D
My immersion used to do similar but not as quick. I’ve got it set for about 40 degrees at the brush head. Perfect. Nice toasty hands too.
Been sub zero all morning here.
My immersion heated water melted ice off the conservatories this morning, really can’t see how diesel heated water would be any quicker, you can only push a pole up and down and sideways as fast as your arms allow!
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Your last comment shows me you’ve never used a diesel heater then.
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Run a bath it can get very very hot but go back to it in no time at all it’s warm the same as your tank even if it’s insulated,think of water coming out of your bath tap very very hot and staying that temp more or less all day at the brush that’s a hot water heater.
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Run a bath it can get very very hot but go back to it in no time at all it’s warm the same as your tank even if it’s insulated,think of water coming out of your bath tap very very hot and staying that temp more or less all day at the brush that’s a hot water heater.
Ahhhhhhh a warm bath all day, cheers buddy! Wasn’t too sure what an ‘on demand, hot water system’ actually was, but now (with your bath analogy) I’m clued up!!!
Jesus wept, do you have to remind yourself breathe in the mornings? 23 pages in and you’re all spewing out the same as page 1 and we’re now getting analogies of hot baths!
Some like on demand hot, some like immersion and some like cold...
Job jobbed, we can lock this thread now I’ve solved it.
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
I would imagine the pump is extra. Usually you would already have a pump, and they would just relocate them into the cabinet.
If you were getting a full system from grippa then obviously everything is included.
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
I would imagine the pump is extra. Usually you would already have a pump, and they would just relocate them into the cabinet.
If you were getting a full system from grippa then obviously everything is included.
Thanks..will take an extra one down then.
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
I would imagine the pump is extra. Usually you would already have a pump, and they would just relocate them into the cabinet.
If you were getting a full system from grippa then obviously everything is included.
Thanks..will take an extra one down then.
grippa fitted my water genie pump out of my pumpbox into my hydroheat cabinet.it was only 6 months old so no point in purchasing another one....
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
I would imagine the pump is extra. Usually you would already have a pump, and they would just relocate them into the cabinet.
If you were getting a full system from grippa then obviously everything is included.
Thanks..will take an extra one down then.
when are you getting yours fitted mate?i bet you cant wait! 8)
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
I would imagine the pump is extra. Usually you would already have a pump, and they would just relocate them into the cabinet.
If you were getting a full system from grippa then obviously everything is included.
Thanks..will take an extra one down then.
You’ll love it. Best thing I’ve bought in a long while. Hassle free hot water at he flick of a switch.
You going for the 9kw?
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Your last comment shows me you’ve never used a diesel heater then.
That is where you’re wrong then😂 😂 I had a purefreedom 9kw diesel heater for 4 years.
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The reason why this thread is going on is because people on here don’t realise the benefits of a proper heater,you can’t compare an immersision that heats up the water even if it’s to 60 degrees because it won’t hold that temperature for long even if the tanks wrapped up,it will stop hoses etc from freezing and keep you working but it won’t be piping hot.
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Personally speaking my immersion suits my needs as 95% of my work is monthly maintenance cleaning and I couldn't justify the cost of a diesel heated system for what I do. Could I afford one? Yes. Would I buy one ? Yes if the type of work we do changed but not just to have frost protection and hot water every day.
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do they supply a pump as well as the controller when its fitted or is that extra?
I would imagine the pump is extra. Usually you would already have a pump, and they would just relocate them into the cabinet.
If you were getting a full system from grippa then obviously everything is included.
Thanks..will take an extra one down then.
when are you getting yours fitted mate?i bet you cant wait! 8)
Next Tuesday for a 2 day fit only downside is i now have to go christmas shopping with the Mrs while they have my van ;D..yes gone for the 9kw
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Now I’m a happy boy, moved the heater adjusting numpty passed the stop setting , so the hottest I had is no the lowest temperature
Now the hottest is finally hot, the hose is hot, the water at brush head is too hot to put your hand under so really please now
The sensor reading the heat is at about 42-44 after 20 mins , So all is good now
Now I can test out the thermo bore hose with a little more heat
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Just turned mine down as I couldn’t see what I was doing because of the steam on the glass,I cleaned a couple also by the boiler vent on a house it was like being in the middle of a bonfire 🔥 with that blowing out steam as well 😂.
Cold down south this morning still a frost.
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The reason why this thread is going on is because people on here don’t realise the benefits of a proper heater,you can’t compare an immersision that heats up the water even if it’s to 60 degrees because it won’t hold that temperature for long even if the tanks wrapped up,it will stop hoses etc from freezing and keep you working but it won’t be piping hot.
Why do you care?
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You obviously do your following this thread by reading it are you not.
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Is hot better then cold then ???
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Is hot better then cold then ???
;D ;D ;D
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It must be because if you have cold pure its quite dense and less able to absorb the dirt .
Hot , hot pure has more moving electrons just waiting to grab that dirt better and faster ;D
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Is hot better then cold then ???
Is a used Gardiner pole that sells for more than a new one on fleebay a better pole ? to the shiner that bought it the answer would be yes.
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Yesterday’s work was an eye opener for me.
I’ve got a very compact day which I always struggle to get done. I usually always have to go back the next day to finish off an hour or so’s work.
All 4 bed detached houses some with large conservatories........ 27 of them.
Yesterday I started at 8am, and was finished for 4pm. 8)
It’s the fastest I’ve ever finished that run.
I had my heater running on full heat, and even though there is lots of leaves usually stuck to the windows from nearby trees etc, and general dirt, every window I could basically clean the same, quick scrub, quick rinse and move on.
You can’t argue that there’s real science behind why hot water is faster to clean with, faster to rinse, faster to dry and to check results, faster to dissolve dirt and I’m noticing That first hand now.
If your just a “plod along” window cleaner that doesn’t have a full round then hot water isn’t a necessity. For me though, it’s starting to pay for itself already.
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even on some of my cheaper compact work im flying round and can make £45-£50+ an hour with a high flow and hot water.....it gives me more confidence to splash and dash.......
i dont add more work to the day i just finish earlier so my working days are usually down to 4 or 5 hours "on the glass" these days.
its a combination of everything.........
1.hot water and a high flow
2.electric reel
3.xtreme poles and brushes
4.knowing my round inside out
5.winter.......(less garden furniture about generally so easier to access the windows)
6.living a clean lifestyle and keeping reasonably fit
7.being organised with worksheets,tickets,invoices before heading out the door
8.taking a packed lunch and flask to work every day
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You obviously do your following this thread by reading it are you not.
You obviously have comprehension issues, so I’ll try again...
The reason why this thread is going on is because people on here don’t realise the benefits of a proper heater,you can’t compare an immersision that heats up the water even if it’s to 60 degrees because it won’t hold that temperature for long even if the tanks wrapped up,it will stop hoses etc from freezing and keep you working but it won’t be piping hot.
Why do you care?
Notice I asked, why do YOU care, it wasn’t a statement on whether I or anyone else cared.
I just dont get why after so many pages you still feel so strongly the need to keep “selling” an on demand system, does it make you feel better for having one?
I’ve read the first two pages, and then the last two pages...the most I can grasp is that the suppliers had better be careful of some lawsuits coming their way, as someones bound to get whiplash the speed some on demand users are now cleaning at!
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Still reading this thread then 😂 still cold are you on these cold mornings.
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Still reading this thread then 😂 still cold are you on these cold mornings.
Yeah...good one... ::)roll
Bless ya, if it makes you happy diddums then you carry on :)
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even on some of my cheaper compact work im flying round and can make £45-£50+ an hour with a high flow and hot water.....it gives me more confidence to splash and dash.......
i dont add more work to the day i just finish earlier so my working days are usually down to 4 or 5 hours "on the glass" these days.
its a combination of everything.........
1.hot water and a high flow
2.electric reel
3.xtreme poles and brushes
4.knowing my round inside out
5.winter.......(less garden furniture about generally so easier to access the windows)
6.living a clean lifestyle and keeping reasonably fit
7.being organised with worksheets,tickets,invoices before heading out the door
8.taking a packed lunch and flask to work every day
9. Having heated seats.
10. Playing drums.
11. 3 x 5star holidays a year.
13. playing with my Golf GTI at weekends.
14. Using Vision.
15. Not using Vision.
16. Brother's a millionaire.
17. Heated windscreen.
18. Interest free credit card.
😁😃😁😃😁😃😁😃😁😃
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Love you
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Yesterday’s work was an eye opener for me.
I’ve got a very compact day which I always struggle to get done. I usually always have to go back the next day to finish off an hour or so’s work.
All 4 bed detached houses some with large conservatories........ 27 of them.
Yesterday I started at 8am, and was finished for 4pm. 8)
It’s the fastest I’ve ever finished that run.
I had my heater running on full heat, and even though there is lots of leaves usually stuck to the windows from nearby trees etc, and general dirt, every window I could basically clean the same, quick scrub, quick rinse and move on.
You can’t argue that there’s real science behind why hot water is faster to clean with, faster to rinse, faster to dry and to check results, faster to dissolve dirt and I’m noticing That first hand now.
If your just a “plod along” window cleaner that doesn’t have a full round then hot water isn’t a necessity. For me though, it’s starting to pay for itself already.
Strangely enough we had the same story from Jonny a few years back with Vision, you gotta love faffer logic.
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Yesterday’s work was an eye opener for me.
I’ve got a very compact day which I always struggle to get done. I usually always have to go back the next day to finish off an hour or so’s work.
All 4 bed detached houses some with large conservatories........ 27 of them.
Yesterday I started at 8am, and was finished for 4pm. 8)
It’s the fastest I’ve ever finished that run.
I had my heater running on full heat, and even though there is lots of leaves usually stuck to the windows from nearby trees etc, and general dirt, every window I could basically clean the same, quick scrub, quick rinse and move on.
You can’t argue that there’s real science behind why hot water is faster to clean with, faster to rinse, faster to dry and to check results, faster to dissolve dirt and I’m noticing That first hand now.
If your just a “plod along” window cleaner that doesn’t have a full round then hot water isn’t a necessity. For me though, it’s starting to pay for itself already.
Strangely enough we had the same story from Jonny a few years back with Vision, you gotta love faffer logic.
Can’t argue with science Sean. 👌
Surface tension of water.......
Hot water moving faster than cold.......
Doesn’t matter if your a “plod along” of course.
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God knows why some window cleaners feel the need to use minibore hose for more flow (compared to microbore).....I had my controller on 40 today and it was almost like a hot jet wash!mega flow from my jets......probably because hot waters viscosity is thinner esp during cold weather so more flow through the hose....
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I love this thread ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But while its still not locked , can any of you guys with 9kw's give me some idea of the upper and lower temps of the water before it hits the hose reel please ?
Would help me no end ta ;D
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Yesterday’s work was an eye opener for me.
I’ve got a very compact day which I always struggle to get done. I usually always have to go back the next day to finish off an hour or so’s work.
All 4 bed detached houses some with large conservatories........ 27 of them.
Yesterday I started at 8am, and was finished for 4pm. 8)
It’s the fastest I’ve ever finished that run.
I had my heater running on full heat, and even though there is lots of leaves usually stuck to the windows from nearby trees etc, and general dirt, every window I could basically clean the same, quick scrub, quick rinse and move on.
You can’t argue that there’s real science behind why hot water is faster to clean with, faster to rinse, faster to dry and to check results, faster to dissolve dirt and I’m noticing That first hand now.
If your just a “plod along” window cleaner that doesn’t have a full round then hot water isn’t a necessity. For me though, it’s starting to pay for itself already.
Strangely enough we had the same story from Jonny a few years back with Vision, you gotta love faffer logic.
Can’t argue with science Sean. 👌
Surface tension of water.......
Hot water moving faster than cold.......
Doesn’t matter if your a “plod along” of course.
Your cant Jonny which is why I don't fall for silly nonsense.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1544656775_funny_and_clever_science_jokes_640_13.jpg)
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God knows why some window cleaners feel the need to use minibore hose for more flow (compared to microbore).....I had my controller on 40 today and it was almost like a hot jet wash!mega flow from my jets......probably because hot waters viscosity is thinner esp during cold weather so more flow through the hose....
You think you need to boil water to remove dust from glass and this confuses you ?, (roll eyes) its simple, purifying water to clean windows works the rest is just whatever takes your fancy, your nonsense is no better than the next guys nonsense.
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I love this thread ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But while its still not locked , can any of you guys with 9kw's give me some idea of the upper and lower temps of the water before it hits the hose reel please ?
Would help me no end ta ;D
Since no one has given you an answer yet I will give you the best I can. With all the hose on the reel and recirculating back to the tank in getting around 65 (I’m sure it would have showed higher if I kept the TDS temperature meter in the stream. But got impatient at how slow the meter rising). Lowest I could get was just over 40c
Bearing in mind I have a massive heat exchaanger I got cheap. So more than likely can get the 70-80c the burner works up to at the exchanger outlet.
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God knows why some window cleaners feel the need to use minibore hose for more flow (compared to microbore).....I had my controller on 40 today and it was almost like a hot jet wash!mega flow from my jets......probably because hot waters viscosity is thinner esp during cold weather so more flow through the hose....
You think you need to boil water to remove dust from glass and this confuses you ?, (roll eyes) its simple, purifying water to clean windows works the rest is just whatever takes your fancy, your nonsense is no better than the next guys nonsense.
its not nonsense sean......the viscosity of water changes when its colder hence why i still get a good flow at the jets with hot despite my setting on 40....its why RO users production slows and is less efficient in the cold winter months too.....
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I love this thread ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But while its still not locked , can any of you guys with 9kw's give me some idea of the upper and lower temps of the water before it hits the hose reel please ?
Would help me no end ta ;D
coiled hose once heater up to temp on full heat setting.....60c-65c
coiled hose on lowest heat setting.......35-40c
no idea before it hits the hose reel as ive never tested it
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God knows why some window cleaners feel the need to use minibore hose for more flow (compared to microbore).....I had my controller on 40 today and it was almost like a hot jet wash!mega flow from my jets......probably because hot waters viscosity is thinner esp during cold weather so more flow through the hose....
You think you need to boil water to remove dust from glass and this confuses you ?, (roll eyes) its simple, purifying water to clean windows works the rest is just whatever takes your fancy, your nonsense is no better than the next guys nonsense.
its not nonsense sean......the viscosity of water changes when its colder hence why i still get a good flow at the jets with hot despite my setting on 40....its why RO users production slows and is less efficient in the cold winter months too.....
What about the hose expanding so allowing more water through?
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God knows why some window cleaners feel the need to use minibore hose for more flow (compared to microbore).....I had my controller on 40 today and it was almost like a hot jet wash!mega flow from my jets......probably because hot waters viscosity is thinner esp during cold weather so more flow through the hose....
You think you need to boil water to remove dust from glass and this confuses you ?, (roll eyes) its simple, purifying water to clean windows works the rest is just whatever takes your fancy, your nonsense is no better than the next guys nonsense.
its not nonsense sean......the viscosity of water changes when its colder hence why i still get a good flow at the jets with hot despite my setting on 40....its why RO users production slows and is less efficient in the cold winter months too.....
What about the hose expanding so allowing more water through?
yes that as well as the viscosity changing......
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God knows why some window cleaners feel the need to use minibore hose for more flow (compared to microbore).....I had my controller on 40 today and it was almost like a hot jet wash!mega flow from my jets......probably because hot waters viscosity is thinner esp during cold weather so more flow through the hose....
You think you need to boil water to remove dust from glass and this confuses you ?, (roll eyes) its simple, purifying water to clean windows works the rest is just whatever takes your fancy, your nonsense is no better than the next guys nonsense.
its not nonsense sean......the viscosity of water changes when its colder hence why i still get a good flow at the jets with hot despite my setting on 40....its why RO users production slows and is less efficient in the cold winter months too.....
Its how some shiners use the science and not the sciense thats nonsense, my flow or the amount of water that hits the glass stays roughtly the same all year round simply because my pump is set/calibrated to allow for the small viscosity change, but why you are really off the mark is if you want more force (jet wash effect) at the jets you restrict the flow of water not make it flow easier,
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Comparing vision to water that is 50-60degrees eh you really have never used 1 of these heaters have you lol
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Comparing vision to water that is 50-60degrees eh you really have never used 1 of these heaters have you lol
I'm not comparing Vision to anything, I don't need to use hot water as I don't get anything or very little on the glass that hot water will melt make easier to remove.
Vision is just more nonsense that some hot users have also fallen for.
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I see what you are saying about vision but these hot systems are different gravy pal.
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I remember the first time I used ‘hot hot’ on a conservatory roof. (Jobs I kinda hate but take on because always end up perched up a ladder. Send the helper now) Made the job so much easier. Muchless Scrubbing so time saved. Also water saved.
Defo helps with regularly cleaned Windows too.(besides being nicer to work with) But the monetary value isn’t as high based on time saved v initial and ongoing running costs when compared to a conservatory roof or facia job.
But I’ve currently spent £690 building my 9.1 kw system running 1 pump (2 to come) and running it on 25% waste and red diesel. Yesterday used about 2.5l fuel costing around £1.50 for a days work. Did I save enough time over the day to clean £1.50 worth of Windows. Definitely.
After all we are businesses focused on making money. A profit. I feel the investment is worth it to my business.
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I remember the first time I used ‘hot hot’ on a conservatory roof. (Jobs I kinda hate but take on because always end up perched up a ladder. Send the helper now) Made the job so much easier. Muchless Scrubbing so time saved. Also water saved.
Defo helps with regularly cleaned Windows too.(besides being nicer to work with) But the monetary value isn’t as high based on time saved v initial and ongoing running costs when compared to a conservatory roof or facia job.
But I’ve currently spent £690 building my 9.1 kw system running 1 pump (2 to come) and running it on 25% waste and red diesel. Yesterday used about 2.5l fuel costing around £1.50 for a days work. Did I save enough time over the day to clean £1.50 worth of Windows. Definitely.
After all we are businesses focused on making money. A profit. I feel the investment is worth it to my business.
Well done , sounds great , any chance of me seeing what you have used to build it all please ?
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Or better still , a nice little piccy for me to peruse ;D
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I remember the first time I used ‘hot hot’ on a conservatory roof. (Jobs I kinda hate but take on because always end up perched up a ladder. Send the helper now) Made the job so much easier. Muchless Scrubbing so time saved. Also water saved.
Defo helps with regularly cleaned Windows too.(besides being nicer to work with) But the monetary value isn’t as high based on time saved v initial and ongoing running costs when compared to a conservatory roof or facia job.
But I’ve currently spent £690 building my 9.1 kw system running 1 pump (2 to come) and running it on 25% waste and red diesel. Yesterday used about 2.5l fuel costing around £1.50 for a days work. Did I save enough time over the day to clean £1.50 worth of Windows. Definitely.
After all we are businesses focused on making money. A profit. I feel the investment is worth it to my business.
as long as i can make roughly 30k profit every year after all expenses,insurances and taxes are deducted im not arsed about the £20 a week it costs me to run my diesel heater every day all year round.even the initial cost of 4.5k over 10 years isnt massive amounts of money to spend on a safe water heater with frost stat IMO.....£450 a year which for me is around 2 days work......
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I remember the first time I used ‘hot hot’ on a conservatory roof. (Jobs I kinda hate but take on because always end up perched up a ladder. Send the helper now) Made the job so much easier. Muchless Scrubbing so time saved. Also water saved.
Defo helps with regularly cleaned Windows too.(besides being nicer to work with) But the monetary value isn’t as high based on time saved v initial and ongoing running costs when compared to a conservatory roof or facia job.
But I’ve currently spent £690 building my 9.1 kw system running 1 pump (2 to come) and running it on 25% waste and red diesel. Yesterday used about 2.5l fuel costing around £1.50 for a days work. Did I save enough time over the day to clean £1.50 worth of Windows. Definitely.
After all we are businesses focused on making money. A profit. I feel the investment is worth it to my business.
as long as i can make roughly 30k profit every year after all expenses,insurances and taxes are deducted im not arsed about the £20 a week it costs me to run my diesel heater every day all year round.even the initial cost of 4.5k over 10 years isnt massive amounts of money to spend on a safe water heater with frost stat IMO.....£450 a year which for me is around 2 days work......
£20 to heat between 1500 and 2000lts of water to 60degrees , not joking you and Nathan K should go into energy saving water heaters, you could make some real money and help solve global warming at the same time. lol
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I remember the first time I used ‘hot hot’ on a conservatory roof. (Jobs I kinda hate but take on because always end up perched up a ladder. Send the helper now) Made the job so much easier. Muchless Scrubbing so time saved. Also water saved.
Defo helps with regularly cleaned Windows too.(besides being nicer to work with) But the monetary value isn’t as high based on time saved v initial and ongoing running costs when compared to a conservatory roof or facia job.
But I’ve currently spent £690 building my 9.1 kw system running 1 pump (2 to come) and running it on 25% waste and red diesel. Yesterday used about 2.5l fuel costing around £1.50 for a days work. Did I save enough time over the day to clean £1.50 worth of Windows. Definitely.
After all we are businesses focused on making money. A profit. I feel the investment is worth it to my business.
as long as i can make roughly 30k profit every year after all expenses,insurances and taxes are deducted im not arsed about the £20 a week it costs me to run my diesel heater every day all year round.even the initial cost of 4.5k over 10 years isnt massive amounts of money to spend on a safe water heater with frost stat IMO.....£450 a year which for me is around 2 days work......
£20 to heat between 1500 and 2000lts of water to 60degrees , not joking you and Nathan K should go into energy saving water heaters, you could make some real money and help solve global warming at the same time. lol
We spend around £60-80 per week to heat 1000 ltr per day but that also includes driving but not much mileage
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Pittance for piping hot water lol how much are you boys earning lol,20 notes a week are you running a business or just enough to go down t pub 😂
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I remember the first time I used ‘hot hot’ on a conservatory roof. (Jobs I kinda hate but take on because always end up perched up a ladder. Send the helper now) Made the job so much easier. Muchless Scrubbing so time saved. Also water saved.
Defo helps with regularly cleaned Windows too.(besides being nicer to work with) But the monetary value isn’t as high based on time saved v initial and ongoing running costs when compared to a conservatory roof or facia job.
But I’ve currently spent £690 building my 9.1 kw system running 1 pump (2 to come) and running it on 25% waste and red diesel. Yesterday used about 2.5l fuel costing around £1.50 for a days work. Did I save enough time over the day to clean £1.50 worth of Windows. Definitely.
After all we are businesses focused on making money. A profit. I feel the investment is worth it to my business.
as long as i can make roughly 30k profit every year after all expenses,insurances and taxes are deducted im not arsed about the £20 a week it costs me to run my diesel heater every day all year round.even the initial cost of 4.5k over 10 years isnt massive amounts of money to spend on a safe water heater with frost stat IMO.....£450 a year which for me is around 2 days work......
£20 to heat between 1500 and 2000lts of water to 60degrees , not joking you and Nathan K should go into energy saving water heaters, you could make some real money and help solve global warming at the same time. lol
i use around 2000-2300L a week so yes it costs around £20 to heat that water,my heater is on for around 6 hours a day,works out at £4-£5 per day.....i can live with that..... 8)
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How much is diesel in your neck of the woods Daz ?
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Does diesel differ anywhere in the uk then
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How much is diesel in your neck of the woods Daz ?
its 126.9 p/l at the moment rich.....
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its 145.9 p/l where most of my work is ATM but its because its a posh area!i never fill up there for obvious reasons! ;D
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Im paying £1.40 a litre at the mo , thats proper garage price , cant be doing with supermarket queues ::)roll
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Does diesel differ anywhere in the uk then
of course it does...every garage its different prices near me.....the posher the area the more expensive diesel is,sometimes up to 20p a litre more expensive.....the supermarket garages are usually the cheapest.....
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Daz your heater must really be a duffer then ;D
6 hours constant run at full is 5.4L , X £1.27 is £6.85 a day or £34.29 a week .....not £20 is it ;D ;D
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Daz your heater must really be a duffer then ;D
6 hours constant run at full is 5.4L , X £1.27 is £6.85 a day or £34.29 a week .....not £20 is it ;D ;D
Even that sounds cheap, think of what it would cost to run a 9kw electric shower at 60 degrees for 6 hours a day five days a week and it wont include the fuel duty you have to pay on diesel.
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Daz your heater must really be a duffer then ;D
6 hours constant run at full is 5.4L , X £1.27 is £6.85 a day or £34.29 a week .....not £20 is it ;D ;D
some days im only working 4 hours a day so the heater is probably only on for 4 hours 45 mins(30 mins lunch and 15 mins drive to work first thing)so not 6 hours every day.......im a part timer like you now rich! ;) :)
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i used to put £40 a month in diesel in my van before my heater,now its £120 thats where i got my figures from rich....
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This is why I want mine to run off its own tank , I can then run red , kerosene , oil or whatever !
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Or better still , a nice little piccy for me to peruse ;D
I can’t for the life of me work out how to add a photo off my iPhone. Even when I change it to jpg it won’t upload.
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This is why I want mine to run off its own tank , I can then run red , kerosene , oil or whatever !
I’m going to try kerosene next (know it will run just wondering the saving and if it will allow more mix of waste oil). Any big multivan operations could save a tidy sum ordering in bulk. Even then I can get red diesel at 82p Litre for a 25l drum. Much cheaper than pump prices.
These heater produce 9.1 kw on full whack at 1.1l of diesel an hour. But in reality they don’t need to run at full capacity all the time with pump stop start and shut off between jobs. Hence using less than 1.1l an hour as Daz has shown
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I ran my other heater on Kerosene it ran fine less smell and smoke for sure,it worked out half the price of general diesel,I know someone that has a pump at a farm I clean and I could use it as and when I wanted that’s why I used it.
You can buy it in 20 liter containers at my local garage but it’s a lot more buying it like that,dirt cheap at the pump not many garages do it but 1 of the stations close to me have 2 pumps for it as well.
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Or better still , a nice little piccy for me to peruse ;D
I can’t for the life of me work out how to add a photo off my iPhone. Even when I change it to jpg it won’t upload.
make your pic into a screenshot and it should upload.... ;)
this is what i do on my samsung S8+.....
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
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This is why I want mine to run off its own tank , I can then run red , kerosene , oil or whatever !
I’m going to try kerosene next (know it will run just wondering the saving and if it will allow more mix of waste oil). Any big multivan operations could save a tidy sum ordering in bulk. Even then I can get red diesel at 82p Litre for a 25l drum. Much cheaper than pump prices.
These heater produce 9.1 kw on full whack at 1.1l of diesel an hour. But in reality they don’t need to run at full capacity all the time with pump stop start and shut off between jobs. Hence using less than 1.1l an hour as Daz has shown
i dont let my heater shut down all day,its running full whack for 5 or 6 hours a day(i recirculate between jobs or lunch breaks,etc).....oliver told me its the best way to run these heaters plus it keeps the water consistently hot....
i prefer the heater plumbed into my vans diesel tank so its nice and easy to fill up,no messing about with other fuels or tanks,i used to hate changing gas bottles when i had my gas heater,diesel is far less hassle....
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
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Hmm(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1544736318_FFF65410-B9EC-4D58-9F55-776866C6C00B.png)
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
Tried that. Can’t get it to work
But managed to post a vid I had from last week to YouTube. https://youtu.be/Nc7Q_PUGP3I
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If you use a separate diesel tank you will get spills I was careful but always did,it stinks the van out it goes everywhere when it spills.
The only benefit having a separate tank is that you see how little they cost to run.
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
Tried that. Can’t get it to work
But managed to post a vid I had from last week to YouTube. https://youtu.be/Nc7Q_PUGP3I
I like that very much , how much coolant is in the system and do you know what rate it gets pumped through the exchanger at , also whats the specs of the exchanger !!!
Just making the most out of cutting down my trial and error ;D
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
Tried that. Can’t get it to work
But managed to post a vid I had from last week to YouTube. https://youtu.be/Nc7Q_PUGP3I
I like that very much , how much coolant is in the system and do you know what rate it gets pumped through the exchanger at , also whats the specs of the exchanger !!!
Just making the most out of cutting down my trial and error ;D
It would be far easier and quicker to just get Grippatank to fit one for you no hassle and trying to bodge it up yourself 😂😂😂😂 all the time you will spend fiddling with it if you worked those hours it would pay for its self
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You should change your name to Splash the Cash ;D
Why on earth would you rather spend 4.5k as opposed to 1k if the end result is the same ?
Still , crack on bud because Grippa loves ya !!
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Most of the time you will find that the people who poo poo DIY are the type that dont know one end of a screwdriver from the other ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
Tried that. Can’t get it to work
But managed to post a vid I had from last week to YouTube. https://youtu.be/Nc7Q_PUGP3I
I like that very much , how much coolant is in the system and do you know what rate it gets pumped through the exchanger at , also whats the specs of the exchanger !!!
Just making the most out of cutting down my trial and error ;D
It would be far easier and quicker to just get Grippatank to fit one for you no hassle and trying to bodge it up yourself 😂😂😂😂 all the time you will spend fiddling with it if you worked those hours it would pay for its self
For most people I agree. I’ve got friends who are window cleaners who don’t know how to connect a hose onto their reel or how to connect a pump up.
On the other hand there are many on here that do and can DIY. For them it’s either cost effective. I’ve enjoyed building my system. Ive moves on to an auto recirculating. Also a frostat that costs about £8.
F@p the system capacity of the loop must only be around 5l.
.9 in the exchanger
.15 in the heater
2.5-5 in the reservoir
It’s getting pumped through at the rate provided by the circulation pump. Rated something like 1600l/h
I think I’ve added the specs of the exchanger in a pdf to the post. It’s probs much bigger than needed. I based what I needed on being no smaller than the Webasto one that comes with the professional set ups. The water comes out the exchanger very hot still on the recirculation side. So loads of energy left. This is with the water at 65 at brush.
Any other questions I will try to help
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
Tried that. Can’t get it to work
But managed to post a vid I had from last week to YouTube. https://youtu.be/Nc7Q_PUGP3I
i dont think you should have the heater fitted to a bit of wood...what are you going to do with the exhaust,surely its got to go through the van floor?and where is the air inlet?
other than that it looks great(and sounds the same as mine)
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i think you should start another thread entitled "DIY diesel heater"....im sure lots of other window cleaners would be interested in your set up on the cheap......
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I feel your pain ......if I want to upload from iphone I have to send to PC then resize so the forum can take it :-[
again....screenshot it then upload it.........it should be fine then....
Tried that. Can’t get it to work
But managed to post a vid I had from last week to YouTube. https://youtu.be/Nc7Q_PUGP3I
i dont think you should have the heater fitted to a bit of wood...what are you going to do with the exhaust,surely its got to go through the van floor?and where is the air inlet?
other than that it looks great(and sounds the same as mine)
That vid was during testing so not finished. It’s all hidden now. The board doesn’t get hot. Defo isn’t an issue. The heater and all pipe work is raised of the board. It’s also all hidden behind a painted ply board for now. That’s what the legs are for show in the picture. Ultimate aim is to mount it in a stainless steel case. I just didn’t want to buy anything until I have 2 man set up as I want to be sure on how tight I can pack it so know what size case I need. Plus not in a rush as I want to wait for a bargin. Like the nearly new heat exchanger which with postage was £47. As you can see in the quote someone paid a lot more.
Air inlet is in the van. Routed to the internal structure near the rear lights. Couldn’t bring myself to cut another hole in the floor. Especially with no intake filter. Was worried it would take on road dirt and rain especially when running while driving.
The exhaust was routed the next day through the floor. So all safe with fumes out of the van. (Never could bring myself to drill the giant hole needed for the propane heater)
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Most of the time you will find that the people who poo poo DIY are the type that dont know one end of a screwdriver from the other ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
i can do basic DIY but i dont particular enjoy it(wiring in my electric cooker,putting up shelves,etc)but fitting a diesel heater in a van is not something i would attempt myself but good luck to those that want to. :)
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I reckon I’m about £80 per week on diesel now. Used to be £40.
That £80 does me about 200 miles of driving, and piping hot water for all my 5 star customers. ;D
The reason I didn’t want to have a seperate fuel tank for the heater was the faff of filling it up (invariably spilling a drop or two every now and again) and I wanted to not ever have to think about prepping the heater. Flick a switch, job done. Put fuel in my van at the start of the working week and job done.
It’s the perfect set up for a window cleaner with a full workload that wants to make there day as easy as possible.
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I reckon I’m about £80 per week on diesel now. Used to be £40.
That £80 does me about 200 miles of driving, and piping hot water for all my 5 star customers. ;D
The reason I didn’t want to have a seperate fuel tank for the heater was the faff of filling it up (invariably spilling a drop or two every now and again) and I wanted to not ever have to think about prepping the heater. Flick a switch, job done. Put fuel in my van at the start of the working week and job done.
It’s the perfect set up for a window cleaner with a full workload that wants to make there day as easy as possible.
you must work long hours jonny........mind you your 16 years younger than me!im just a part timer these days... :)
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Why bother trying to set that up when you can buy my thermo 1 heater all in the cabinet,all the DIY skills you’ll need is drilling 2 holes in van floor £550 take it away.
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That’s a pretty decent price to get into diesel hot water
What you using now NWH? You set up a DIY system yourself didn’t you Or am I getting confused?
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I’ve just got a 2 man 9 kw from grippa the heater exchanger frost stat and heat sensor all under 6 months old the heat sensor is still in the bag brand new,can’t believe no one wants it for that price.
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£20 to heat between 1500 and 2000lts of water to 60degrees , not joking you and Nathan K should go into energy saving water heaters, you could make some real money and help solve global warming at the same time. lol
To raise 1 L of water by 1C takes 4,400 joules. To raise 2,000 litres by 55C (assuming it's starting at 5C) will require 484million joules. There are 3.6million joules in a KwH, so you'll need 134KwH. Even using standard rate electricity at about 12.5p per KwH, that's about £17. What's the problem?
Vin
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I reckon I’m about £80 per week on diesel now. Used to be £40.
That £80 does me about 200 miles of driving, and piping hot water for all my 5 star customers. ;D
The reason I didn’t want to have a seperate fuel tank for the heater was the faff of filling it up (invariably spilling a drop or two every now and again) and I wanted to not ever have to think about prepping the heater. Flick a switch, job done. Put fuel in my van at the start of the working week and job done.
It’s the perfect set up for a window cleaner with a full workload that wants to make there day as easy as possible.
you must work long hours jonny........mind you your 16 years younger than me!im just a part timer these days... :)
It’s not too bad mate, I can’t complain. Mon-fri about 8 -4. 👍 some days later if it’s a big day.
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On the heat exchanger , can I ask what the metal braided hose is for , the one that runs from inlet to outlet , logic tells me its a bypass , I am assuming to send some heated coolant back to the header ?
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It’s for the needle valve you can let cold water in to adjust the heat.
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On the heat exchanger , can I ask what the metal braided hose is for , the one that runs from inlet to outlet , logic tells me its a bypass , I am assuming to send some heated coolant back to the header ?
On mine?
The braided hose is connected to the mixer valve. That allows you to adjust the temperature. When you turn the mixer valve down you are essentially bypassing more coolant back to the header.
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On the heat exchanger , can I ask what the metal braided hose is for , the one that runs from inlet to outlet , logic tells me its a bypass , I am assuming to send some heated coolant back to the header ?
The one that runs from the inlet to the outlet is for sending cold water that’s come from the pump and before it goes into the exchanger to mix with the hot that’s come out of the exchanger. There is then a thermostatic mixer valve which mixes this cold with the hot out of the exchanger depending on where the dial is turned 2. I used the same mixing valve as all the diesel heater manufacturers because I knew it would have the correct temperate range capability. I’m sure one could be found cheaper that covers the same temperature ranges.
The other braided hose is because it came in a pack of 2 😂😂 as well as bringing the hot to the bottom of the board where I wanted it.
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Should have read the other replies because I’ve basically given a long winded answer to others 😂😂😂
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Should have read the other replies because I’ve basically given a long winded answer to others 😂😂😂
Yours was just more precise. ;)
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£20 to heat between 1500 and 2000lts of water to 60degrees , not joking you and Nathan K should go into energy saving water heaters, you could make some real money and help solve global warming at the same time. lol
To raise 1 L of water by 1C takes 4,400 joules. To raise 2,000 litres by 55C (assuming it's starting at 5C) will require 484million joules. There are 3.6million joules in a KwH, so you'll need 134KwH. Even using standard rate electricity at about 12.5p per KwH, that's about £17. What's the problem?
Vin
I think Sean is furiously googling a response.
It’s taking him a lot longer than usual. ;D
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£20 to heat between 1500 and 2000lts of water to 60degrees , not joking you and Nathan K should go into energy saving water heaters, you could make some real money and help solve global warming at the same time. lol
To raise 1 L of water by 1C takes 4,400 joules. To raise 2,000 litres by 55C (assuming it's starting at 5C) will require 484million joules. There are 3.6million joules in a KwH, so you'll need 134KwH. Even using standard rate electricity at about 12.5p per KwH, that's about £17. What's the problem?
Vin
I think Sean is furiously googling a response.
It’s taking him a lot longer than usual. ;D
It wouldn't link, a 9kw electric shower costs 25p per ten minutes of usage, but that going by the 2018 UK average electricity price of 16p, as I keep telling Nathan the heating calculators give the best possible results.
That said I would also need to know the flow at 60degrees to compare the actual cost per litre.
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I just bought a load of rubbish off Ebay , gonna take a grinder and welder to it , if I can get 40 at the brush head I will be a happy bunny ;D ;D ;D
I normally come through ok in times like this :)
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I just bought a load of rubbish off Ebay , gonna take a grinder and welder to it , if I can get 40 at the brush head I will be a happy bunny ;D ;D ;D
I normally come through ok in times like this :)
Feel like this is for the DIY topic. But what did you buy?
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Cant say chief , see I'm waiting on the patent to come through ;D ;D ;D
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Nah , nothing yet , still doing my homework for the mo !
Dopey Daz thinks I'm going up to Grippa in January ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cant say chief , see I'm waiting on the patent to come through ;D ;D ;D
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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It wouldn't link, a 9kw electric shower costs 25p per ten minutes of usage, but that going by the 2018 UK average electricity price of 16p, as I keep telling Nathan the heating calculators give the best possible results.
That said I would also need to know the flow at 60degrees to compare the actual cost per litre.
You can calculate the necessary flow rate.
(Note: I was working from memory before. The heat required to raise 1L or water by 1C is 4,200 joules, not 4,400)
A 9kW heater will raise the temperature of 1L of water by 2.14C every second. So, for 55C increase, it'll take about 26 seconds. So the flow rate would have to be 2.3L per minute.
And, guess what, that would mean that to heat 2,000 litres, you'd need to run it for 870 minutes, or 87 of your ten minute units that cost 25p each, which comes to £21.75. Or, if you prefer to use my 12.5p per unit rather than your 16p, amazingly, about £17. Same as before.
The laws of physics can be so inflexible.
Vin
PS, if you're paying 16p per unit, can I recommend www.uswitch.com ?
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Nah , nothing yet , still doing my homework for the mo !
Dopey Daz thinks I'm going up to Grippa in January ;D ;D ;D ;D
theres no way you d fit a grippa hydroheat in that van of yours anyway mate unless you reduced the size of your tank to a 150L! ;D
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Nah , nothing yet , still doing my homework for the mo !
Dopey Daz thinks I'm going up to Grippa in January ;D ;D ;D ;D
theres no way you d fit a grippa hydroheat in that van of yours anyway mate unless you reduced the size of your tank to a 150L! ;D
Ha , I was wondering when you would see that comment ;D
You are right though with the 350 tank , my 250 would give me space and 100kg less , but its down to batteries and charging , thats why I have to come up with a different solution .
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Have any of you Grippa owners taken the temp of the coolant in the header tank once you are up to your usual cleaning temps , I just want to know if the plate exchanger takes all the heat from the coolant or if it builds up the temp in the header tank ?
If you have not then would you mind checking please , providing that it doesnt melt your hand of course ;D
Cheers , Its nearly D-day , my bits and bobs are on the way !
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Have any of you Grippa owners taken the temp of the coolant in the header tank once you are up to your usual cleaning temps , I just want to know if the plate exchanger takes all the heat from the coolant or if it builds up the temp in the header tank ?
If you have not then would you mind checking please , providing that it doesnt melt your hand of course ;D
Cheers , Its nearly D-day , my bits and bobs are on the way !
my coolant in the header tank is around half full and i cant get my hand in with my meter to check it when its up to full temperature....all i know is its hot..... ;D
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That will do for me cheers Daz , at least i know that the heat exchanger does not zap all the heat out and it sends some back as reserve .
My bits came today , let the tinkering commence ;D ;D ;D
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The temp of the coolant is meant to get to 88°C I believe before the burner turns off.
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my coolant in the header tank is around half full and i cant get my hand in with my meter to check it when its up to full temperature....all i know is its hot..... ;D
[/quote]
Daz if your coolant is that low you will need to check with grippa the correct levels, as I believe that is way too low
Better to be safe than damage something
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my coolant in the header tank is around half full and i cant get my hand in with my meter to check it when its up to full temperature....all i know is its hot..... ;D
Daz if your coolant is that low you will need to check with grippa the correct levels, as I believe that is way too low
Better to be safe than damage something
[/quote]
Half full on these systems if fine you don’t want too much more than that
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My lord , my bits and bobs are the mutts nuts !
Did a mock up in the connie and had to walk out as it was hot , hot ,hot , just aswell I got a remote control for it , I was able to turn it off from the cooling down armchair ;D ;D ;D
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My lord , my bits and bobs are the mutts nuts !
Did a mock up in the connie and had to walk out as it was hot , hot ,hot , just aswell I got a remote control for it , I was able to turn it off from the cooling down armchair ;D ;D ;D
Nice. You’ll be able to phone 999 from your arm chair for the fire brigade too.
;D
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my coolant in the header tank is around half full and i cant get my hand in with my meter to check it when its up to full temperature....all i know is its hot..... ;D
Daz if your coolant is that low you will need to check with grippa the correct levels, as I believe that is way too low
Better to be safe than damage something
[/quote]
its actually just slightly more than half full but only a little....it was like that when i had it installed so it must be fine....
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It should be 2/3rds full and you need to use the right coolant,if you top it up I’d get it from them or check with them you can only use the red-pink coolant.
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My lord , my bits and bobs are the mutts nuts !
Did a mock up in the connie and had to walk out as it was hot , hot ,hot , just aswell I got a remote control for it , I was able to turn it off from the cooling down armchair ;D ;D ;D
It didn’t happen without photos 😂😂😂
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It should be 2/3rds full and you need to use the right coolant,if you top it up I’d get it from them or check with them you can only use the red-pink coolant.
Oliver told me not to fill it above half way , providing you have coolant circulating he said the volume wasn’t overly important, I think most recomend around 5 ltr in the header tank , the more you have the longer it takes to warm up
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It should be 2/3rds full and you need to use the right coolant,if you top it up I’d get it from them or check with them you can only use the red-pink coolant.
you can get red/pink coolant from any car spares shop or online no problem.....
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
400 ml of fuel in an hour lol mine uses 1to 1:5 ltr per hour
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
400 ml of fuel in an hour lol mine uses 1to 1:5 ltr per hour
Great isnt it eh !
Just stripped it down and there is no scope for light mods , so it looks like the plasma discs are coming out to play the morrow .
Brand new and its getting the chop already ;D ;D ;D
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
Can’t you tell it it was a submersible pump in its previous life.
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
400 ml of fuel in an hour lol mine uses 1to 1:5 ltr per hour
Great isnt it eh !
Just stripped it down and there is no scope for light mods , so it looks like the plasma discs are coming out to play the morrow .
Brand new and its getting the chop already ;D ;D ;D
What kind of heat increase are you expecting?
With that fuel use id say it was less than 4kw in power?
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
400 ml of fuel in an hour lol mine uses 1to 1:5 ltr per hour
Great isnt it eh !
Just stripped it down and there is no scope for light mods , so it looks like the plasma discs are coming out to play the morrow .
Brand new and its getting the chop already ;D ;D ;D
What kind of heat increase are you expecting?
With that fuel use id say it was less than 4kw in power?
Couldnt really say , all I can say is flow rate needs to be 1.5 lpm with 10*c start , what do you think is going to happen ?
I dont have a scoobie , I just like playin ;D ;D
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Have I missed a post.. what have you actually purchased? I presume a Webasto
Mine runs about 3l in a 6 hour working day. When I first bought it I read the specs that says 9.1kw uses 1.1l an hour and expected a lot more fuel usage. But it idles quite a lot in between jobs and moving around so on. I also think they run on around 7kw when up to temp with a one man set up. So using under 1l per hour.
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Have I missed a post.. what have you actually purchased? I presume a Webasto
Mine runs about 3l in a 6 hour working day. When I first bought it I read the specs that says 9.1kw uses 1.1l an hour and expected a lot more fuel usage. But it idles quite a lot in between jobs and moving around so on. I also think they run on around 7kw when up to temp with a one man set up. So using under 1l per hour.
Not tellin :-*
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Just ran the burner up for 1 hour on full heat , only used a shot leisure battery on it and it only used 400ml
That’s 2 boxes ticked , cheap to run and jack poop power consumption
Just gotta get the heat from the burner into the water !
400 ml of fuel in an hour lol mine uses 1to 1:5 ltr per hour
Great isnt it eh !
Just stripped it down and there is no scope for light mods , so it looks like the plasma discs are coming out to play the morrow .
Brand new and its getting the chop already ;D ;D ;D
What kind of heat increase are you expecting?
With that fuel use id say it was less than 4kw in power?
Couldnt really say , all I can say is flow rate needs to be 1.5 lpm with 10*c start , what do you think is going to happen ?
I dont have a scoobie , I just like playin ;D ;D
It’s not gonna be hot hot hot I don’t think.
Time will tell though. :)
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Jonny you are right !
I took the plasma and hacksaw to it earlier and it won’t fire up now
😫😫😫😫😫
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Jonny you are right !
I took the plasma and hacksaw to it earlier and it won’t fire up now
😫😫😫😫😫
🤣
Be careful Professor P@F.