Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P @ F on September 25, 2017, 09:37:06 pm
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11.75 Amps in with 10.50 Amps out
Mix of sun and cloud all day
3 hours domestic , 1 hour commercial
Ended on float with no need to bench charge
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11.75 Amps in with 10.50 Amps out
Mix of sun and cloud all day
3 hours domestic , 1 hour commercial
Ended on float with no need to bench charge
This is actually quite interesting - 10.5 amps out.
Didn't you say your pump drew 5 amps on another thread. If that was correct then you've used your pump for around 2 hours of actual window cleaning time - water to the brush head.
We found similar - about 50% of the our workday is actually cleaning and rinsing windows. The rest of the time is doing everything else related to the job.
Then the other oddity - if you started off with a fully charged battery this morning, how did you put back more than you took out? :)
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11.75 Amps in with 10.50 Amps out
Mix of sun and cloud all day
3 hours domestic , 1 hour commercial
Ended on float with no need to bench charge
This is actually quite interesting - 10.5 amps out.
Didn't you say your pump drew 5 amps on another thread. If that was correct then you've used your pump for around 2 hours of actual window cleaning time - water to the brush head.
We found similar - about 50% of the our workday is actually cleaning and rinsing windows. The rest of the time is doing everything else related to the job.
Then the other oddity - if you started off with a fully charged battery this morning, how did you put back more than you took out? :)
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I dont think that the watt meters are lab grade devices by a long way , they are £12 each and are for a rough guide only , they cant be that far out as the smart charger has proved that when the watt meter gave the indication of a fully charged battery it went to maintain quite quickly on the smart charger , i guess the only way to test them is to actually get one of those units that will give an exact feed of volts or amps to test it , i dont have one , and at the moment dont see the need for one .
But i have just thought of where the extra amps could have gone , my pump and flow controller are the draw that is displayed on the watt meter , dont forget that i have the drill to wind the hose in connected to the battery aswell , this does not get wired through the watt meter , it was initially but due to the fact that when it was under load and the hose got caught or put the drill under strain it was spiking and pulling more than 10 amps which was in turn blowing the fuse that protects my flow controller .
So having said that , the overcharge was 1.25 amps , is it feasable that the drill would be responsible for the missing draw ?
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Also the pump taking 5 amps was with the old battery , i was running higher flow then to compensate for loss of energy within the battery , i now run at 80 on the controller which i think was using 4 or 4.5 amps , i cant be sure but will look again on tha morra !
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11.75 Amps in with 10.50 Amps out
Mix of sun and cloud all day
3 hours domestic , 1 hour commercial
Ended on float with no need to bench charge
This is actually quite interesting - 10.5 amps out.
Didn't you say your pump drew 5 amps on another thread. If that was correct then you've used your pump for around 2 hours of actual window cleaning time - water to the brush head.
We found similar - about 50% of the our workday is actually cleaning and rinsing windows. The rest of the time is doing everything else related to the job.
Then the other oddity - if you started off with a fully charged battery this morning, how did you put back more than you took out? :)
.
I checked today and at a flow of 80 which i now use the pump was drawing 4 amps.
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Today 26.09.17
10.50 amps in with 9.00 amps out .
More sun than cloud.
3 hours domestic , 1 hour commercial (2 large houses , 1 large shop ) all wfp.
Ended on float with no need to bench charge
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Hello Richard, I know you started with a 80w panel I'm sure I read that you upgraded? Could be wrong lol what exactly did you upgrade to ?
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Hello Richard, I know you started with a 80w panel I'm sure I read that you upgraded? Could be wrong lol what exactly did you upgrade to ?
Hi Den , I did have the 80 watt panel and Victron 75/10 MPPT solar controller to start with , but whilst out shopping for a new battery i was offered a 40 watt panel for £50 , that dont often happen so i snapped it up , so its the Victron and 120 watts coming from the 2 panels together (wired in paralell) .
Dont get me wrong , i have had good results so far but its not gonna be all plain sailing from here on in , at times you get no solar in and in overcast conditions it could be as low as 1 amp per hour , which on paper could only be enough to power the pump for 15 minutes continuous running .
The reason i embarked on my mission is because i got the right gear at a fantastic price , so i dont really mind if it fails , i will still be on top so to speak , all in its cost me £200 , without the lucky finds it would have cost nearer £300 maybe more .
I just dont want to see people blow money thinking that its the answer full stop .
I reckon Spring/Summer is for me going to be a walkover , I'm not so sure about Autumn/Winter though , time will tell !
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My geniune interest in your thread, ATM I have SCR but don't do a great deal of mileage it does a great job but not enough two weeks a month now I have a power up hd reel install, next year I intend to have a two man system with two electric reels so watching your thread to see if maybe scr and solar combined will be enough?
I'm lucky in the sense that I have my own driveway and have quick fit SAE connectors fitted to my battery and battery charger so only need to run extension lead out to van to top charge up if need be, but would prefer to have it automated via scr/solar though.
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It all depends how you look at it really.
Im following these posts out of interest in the amp readings as this is something ive not done or paid much attention to. Last winter from memory i didnt have many problems, but the problem with memory is that sometimes we use rose tinted glasses.
But....lets say you need to bench charge the battery once a week (not my experience, just using it as an example) surely thats a win ein regardless. WHY? Well im sure its probably less than one would have done without using solar panels and secondly you go the rest of the year not bench charging and so saving on electric costs and effort all other time. So surely its a winning situation all the same.
😕
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My geniune interest in your thread, ATM I have SCR but don't do a great deal of mileage it does a great job but not enough two weeks a month now I have a power up hd reel install, next year I intend to have a two man system with two electric reels so watching your thread to see if maybe scr and solar combined will be enough?
I'm lucky in the sense that I have my own driveway and have quick fit SAE connectors fitted to my battery and battery charger so only need to run extension lead out to van to top charge up if need be, but would prefer to have it automated via scr/solar though.
Sounds like it will be a tall order as that will be a lot of power draw and as you know the weather is not predictable at all , so many factors have to be looked at , what hours you work , the type of work , is the drive shaded at all , all of it could make or break the whole idea , i usually get home in the red by 2 or 3 amps , its just the fact that i finish early still with good light conditions and am able to replenish then .
If you start at say 9 and work until 4 with hard graft 2 pumps will pull 10 amps an hour between them , so you have 7 hours at 10 amp , thats 70 amps , lets say you both break for 30 minute lunch , thats 5 amps off the 70 amps , so 65 amp is needed for the day (pumps only) , that 65 amp can be cut in half due to the pumps only running for half of the cleaning time (on average with domestic work) , so this is 32.5 amps , lets call it 35 amps to be safe , remember that this does not include whatever the power reels take to run .
The maximum that i can pull in with 120 watt of panels in good sun is 6.5 amps per hour , this is if they are the right angle to the sun , but they are not , they are flat on the roof , the most i have seen come in is 5 amps after the MPPT controller has done its bit , so for me to get 35 amps in would take 7 hours of good sun non stop , this just does not happen even in summer , well it would if you had enough panels !
This is the chance you must take when you need large ammounts of amps , you need both ends of the spectrum , these being large amp panels and the space on the roof to mount them , i am right out of room now , if 120 watt does not do the job in winter i have nowhere else to go with it , you might have i dont know , but if you start , just bear in mind that you might have to keep on adding until you get what you need .
It is worth mentioning that you have scr that will help , i dont , so you might not need so much solar to achieve your goal .
To be straight with you , it may just pay you to sit and see what happens with me over winter , like i said , at some points i get nothing in , and at some points i only get 1 amp per hour in , for me that could be 4 amps all day in winter , i need at least 8 amps to get my daily work done without the need to bench charge ever again .
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My geniune interest in your thread, ATM I have SCR but don't do a great deal of mileage it does a great job but not enough two weeks a month now I have a power up hd reel install, next year I intend to have a two man system with two electric reels so watching your thread to see if maybe scr and solar combined will be enough?
I'm lucky in the sense that I have my own driveway and have quick fit SAE connectors fitted to my battery and battery charger so only need to run extension lead out to van to top charge up if need be, but would prefer to have it automated via scr/solar though.
Rich isn't a heavy power user as a single operator. Once you start becoming power hungry - a two man system with electric hose reels you are heading into a 2 battery system with external over night charging required.
Your van will become the same as a refrigerated van is in that it has the be plugged in every night.
The advise Rich gave to be patient and watch his experiences through winter is sound.
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27.09.17
Here it is , the truth of solar on a bad day , its not all roses , this will give more of a true picture of how it can be !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmaju_Be15s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2exWelxBPyU
Rich
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All the numbers asside, fitting a solar panel to my van is one of the best things I've done.
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All the numbers asside, fitting a solar panel to my van is one of the best things I've done.
Hi Elfyn , I cant remember what panel you had and what your findings were in general , spill the beans how do you find winter ?
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27.09.17
Here it is , the truth of solar on a bad day , its not all roses , this will give more of a true picture of how it can be !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmaju_Be15s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2exWelxBPyU
Rich
Right , so on this day it worked out that when i got home the battery was at 75% charged , thats more than usual after 6 hours of commercial cleaning , but it did need the bench charge to keep it to full .
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28.09.17
Only did 2 largish country houses , next door to each other so i got home on float .
Sun and cloud mix.
No bench charge .
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29.09.17
Friday , short day ;D
3 hours domestic ,
Cloudy but bright , got home in absorb mode , left a couple of hours and was in float within a couple of hours !
So first week of testing turned out well , battery is all ready for Monday , and it only had to go on the bench once , so my initial thoughts are that its fine for a one man band who has mainly domestic and who dont work his fingers to the bone (ME) ;D
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I bought this kit and fitted it myself. It's over 2 years ago, but I think it was this company or very similar.
I thought at the beginning that I'd have to connect to a charger over the winter months to top the battery up, but I haven't had to yet. ;D
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I bought this kit and fitted it myself. It's over 2 years ago, but I think it was this company or very similar.
I thought at the beginning that I'd have to connect to a charger over the winter months to top the battery up, but I haven't had to yet. ;D
I cant see a link here Elfyn , was there meant to be ???
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Sorry - senior moment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CLASS-A-CELL-12V-150W-Solar-Panel-Kit-Caravan-Boat-Motorhome-UK-/301700091722?hash=item463eba0f4a:g:-wMAAOSwLVZV4Zqx
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Hello elfyn, did you install panel directly to your roof or on your roof bars? Looking at the brackets I would guess your roof. Do you have a roof rack fitted and if you do does the shade from roof rack effect the panel's efficiency.
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02.10.17
Today was 8 amps out with 4 amps in , more cloud than sun again , but im only short of 4 amps from full so the battery can stay in , will be interesting to see if i can pull them back in tomorrow aswell as replace what i use , Jees , am i reckless or what ;D
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Sorry - senior moment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CLASS-A-CELL-12V-150W-Solar-Panel-Kit-Caravan-Boat-Motorhome-UK-/301700091722?hash=item463eba0f4a:g:-wMAAOSwLVZV4Zqx
Thats a good deal there !
So how often do you bench the battery if ever , i see that you are running 30 watt more than me .
Do you just use the volt display on the flow control , if not how do you keep tabs on battery state , or are you just a reckless kinda guy :D
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OK , not updated in a while as has been no need , so here it is so far , from 25 Sep until today 9 Oct , 11 days have been worked and the battery has been on the bench 2 times , once overnight on trickle after the large retirement complex in the video , and once for 2 hours trickle to top up .
So its all good so far , the 2 hour charge was probably not really needed , i was just a bit cautious that day , more soon , as the weather is only going to get worse from here !
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Just to add to conversation, as of yet ive not rigged up the amp meter (saving it for when i get round to sorting a 2nd big panel) so i cant do specifics which P@F is doing. Which is useful n great to follow...
But ive just benched charged my battery for first time this year. It wasnt fully needed, but not long back i purchased a smart charger and it was an excuse to use it really. Also my smaller 12v 27amp battery that i use for my electric reel needed a charge. I usually charge this one from my solar panel as well, but it was quite cloudy today so hooked both panels to my leisure battery instead. So i needed to charge this 27amp battery for tomorrow and thought whilst im at it, I'll stick the leisure one on charge also.
Now my charger doesnt show the ampage, but the battery was at 13.5v and still showing 3 bars needing charged, so im guessing this is topping up the ampage?? I aint no sparkie so dont know if my thinking is right on that?