Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jo5hm4n on September 23, 2017, 01:14:53 pm
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Recently found a canvassing company online, selling services on ebay -http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINDOW-CLEANING-ROUND-for-sale-built-to-your-requirements-/272821279717?hash=item3f856a5be5:g:pCEAAOSwcj5ZWVFB
They are called WPS Generation based in Retford, Website - http://www.wpsgeneration.co.uk/about-us-1/
I spoke to the owner and he seemed really genuine and like he is running a good business model. They guarantee 3 cleans or replace with new work for you. We all know that you get drop offs after 1-2 cleans on new customers so i questioned him on this, and he said that because they are charging 3x that is factored into their profit and if they have to come back to your area to canvas any customers that drop off that is what they do.
Has anybody on here used them? got any good/bad feedback?
Right, but then today i went on ebay again and found another new posting from a different company called Midlands Renewables Ltd - website name is Pyramid Marketing. - https://www.pyramidmarketing.co.uk/
Thing is they are also based in Retford and less than 2 miles away from this other company? I can't help think what are the chances of having 2 completely different window cleaning canvassing companies basically based in the same town.
Ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINDOW-CLEANING-ROUNDS-FOR-SALE-NATIONWIDE-Traditional-water-fed-pole-/263208739551?hash=item3d4876a2df:g:kYgAAOSwEotZu7gg
Just wanted to see if anybody has used either of these companies or thoughts on this. Just want to use a decent canvassing company, and before anybody says "Canvas yourself" i can't at the moment because of health issues.
Cheers guys
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I spoke to WPS at the window cleaning show - they seem ok.
I know its 2 guys in a partnership so maybe that's why there are 2 close by together ?
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I spoke to WPS at the window cleaning show - they seem ok.
I know its 2 guys in a partnership so maybe that's why there are 2 close by together ?
Ahhh glad to know this was the company you spoke to Ian. Yes he did seem really genuine to chat too. That may explain it then. If you have seen them and they seemed genuine i will give them a try then.
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I used wps recently. So far so good.
Maybe lost 3 jobs out of fifty or so, which is ok. Gained a few too though.
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spoke to him, seemed a good guy.
Will give them a go next year
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spoke to him, seemed a good guy.
Will give them a go next year
Ok cool, did you get my text that i sent you btw? Maybe i sent to wrong number...
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spoke to him, seemed a good guy.
Will give them a go next year
Ok cool, did you get my text that i sent you btw? Maybe i sent to wrong number...
Sorry mate, I did but I accidentally deleted it before I could reply so lost your number. :-X
If you go ahead with WPS let know how you get on.
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spoke to him, seemed a good guy.
Will give them a go next year
Ok cool, did you get my text that i sent you btw? Maybe i sent to wrong number...
Sorry mate, I did but I accidentally deleted it before I could reply so lost your number. :-X
If you go ahead with WPS let know how you get on.
Ahh no worries mate. Yeah ill give them a go hopefully in a couple months when i get my employee sorted first and up to speed
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I'm hoping to have a part timer for next year, it is very hard going trying to get through a batch of new work on your own.
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I used them a few months ago and they got me some good work, lost about 20% but it was quality work. They still haven't been to regenerate the work lost but I've just got them up again to canvass some more work and they say they'll generate a little more than I requested to make up for the first set of lost work.
However, this time around I've had a few more problems with the work. A number of customers have called me to say the price they were quoted was less than the price I was given for them (I had been given £10 and customer said it was £7, I actually sacked one customer because I thought they were trying to rip me off but after a couple more calls to the same effect I realized it was the canvassers). I also had a couple say they didn't sign up to the service only expressed an interest in it.
I spoke to Yan who seems to be the boss and he seems keen to rectify the situation, I think it's his business partner, Harry, who seems to be the most suspect.
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I used them a few months ago and they got me some good work, lost about 20% but it was quality work. They still haven't been to regenerate the work lost but I've just got them up again to canvass some more work and they say they'll generate a little more than I requested to make up for the first set of lost work.
However, this time around I've had a few more problems with the work. A number of customers have called me to say the price they were quoted was less than the price I was given for them (I had been given £10 and customer said it was £7, I actually sacked one customer because I thought they were trying to rip me off but after a couple more calls to the same effect I realized it was the canvassers). I also had a couple say they didn't sign up to the service only expressed an interest in it.
I spoke to Yan who seems to be the boss and he seems keen to rectify the situation, I think it's his business partner, Harry, who seems to be the most suspect.
Sounds normal to me. You do get a bit of this with canvassed work.
Interested to hear if they do replace the lost work as they say they will guarantee 3 cleans. Hopefully they are true to their word.
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well well well
3 clean guarantee huh well we cant loose this time next year Rodney this time next year ;D
would it be guaranteed if you knew the work was top noc but the customer wasn't happy dont think it would cos customers never ever say not happy with clean to get out of paying you 6-12 x a year when they only wanted it once as last time cleaned was 6 years ago?
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Personally I can't see them replacing those that don't go 3 cleans. Because imo that could be 50% of what was originally canvassed.
Can't see them being too keen to come back and do that.
Intetested to hear how it goes.
I had this issue with two different canvassers a couple of years ago. All was fine and dandy until the cancels started coming in then it was a different story to get them replace or refunded as promised.
Also I would say why are you getting them to canvass more work when they haven't been back to replace the cancels for the first lot? I would want that sorting before you hand over any more dough.
Its ok them saying they will canvass extra but what happens when you lose a load of that then you are waiting for them to replace cancels on 2 lots of work.
Imo you want them to honour the replacements for the first batch first. Make sure you have a contract stating exactly what you are paying for.
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Personally I can't see them replacing those that don't go 3 cleans. Because imo that could be 50% of what was originally canvassed.
Can't see them being too keen to come back and do that.
Intetested to hear how it goes.
I had this issue with two different canvassers a couple of years ago. All was fine and dandy until the cancels started coming in then it was a different story to get them replace or refunded as promised.
Also I would say why are you getting them to canvass more work when they haven't been back to replace the cancels for the first lot? I would want that sorting before you hand over any more dough.
Its ok them saying they will canvass extra but what happens when you lose a load of that then you are waiting for them to replace cancels on 2 lots of work.
Imo you want them to honour the replacements for the first batch first. Make sure you have a contract stating exactly what you are paying for.
When i spoke to the guy on the phone i questioned this, saying canvassed work can drop off by upto 50%. He told me that their canvassers are windows cleaners and not salesman, so they dont target potential customers that could appear to be messers. Window cleaners know what they are looking for when canvassing, whereas salesmen dont. He said they have a much better retention rate because of this and drop offs after 3 months are between 10-20% but usually lower than that.
I'm going to give them a go and see how things go.
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3 clean Garentee roders! Why on earth are they giving all this to us I tell you this time next year this time next year!!
By all means give it a go mate just be careful and don't expose yourself to a massive liability
Take it slow and see if stuff gets refunded or replaced
Let us know too how the replacements go the oldest trick in the book is pay more and we top up
Get it topped up or refunded then get them again if you want too
I'm sure they'll replace it all or sort it let us know
😀
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3 clean Garentee roders! Why on earth are they giving all this to us I tell you this time next year this time next year!!
By all means give it a go mate just be careful and don't expose yourself to a massive liability
Take it slow and see if stuff gets refunded or replaced
Let us know too how the replacements go the oldest trick in the book is pay more and we top up
Get it topped up or refunded then get them again if you want too
I'm sure they'll replace it all or sort it let us know
😀
Just booked them for November for 1K of work, so shall see how things go! First time using a canvassing company so will be interesting and an experience to say the least. If it works out though will more than likely use them again.
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Best of luck mate, thats a LOT of work to get through a grand of first cleans.
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Best of luck mate, thats a LOT of work to get through a grand of first cleans.
Do you think i should of gone for £500 and then a few weeks later another £500? There will be 2 of us doing the cleans. Planning on doing £200 first cleans per day, if possible. So 5 days to get the lot done, 2 days one week, 3 days the next week. With a backup day for leftovers.
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josh that's an awful lot of first cleans in a day mate, 5 days straight!
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Best of luck mate, thats a LOT of work to get through a grand of first cleans.
Do you think i should of gone for £500 and then a few weeks later another £500? There will be 2 of us doing the cleans. Planning on doing £200 first cleans per day, if possible. So 5 days to get the lot done, 2 days one week, 3 days the next week. With a backup day for leftovers.
It takes me a week to do 500 on my own.
Thats if the weather holds up, im always reluctant to do a first clean in bad weather....
Its a hard week, lot of aches and pains after doing that lot.
Dont forget, its not only physically harder and takes twice as long you also have to find each property, probably using the sat nav, then you dont know what its like with parking etc. Then theres chatting to new custy running through how it works etc.
Its not as easy as flying round maintenance cleans that you know the order and the best way to them and park etc on auto pilot.
I wouldnt take on a grand all at once on my own, it would take a couple of weeks to get through and probably throw the rest of my round out. I get batches of 500 and its more than enough at once. I would prefer less that that really.
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Don't forget you'll need 2-3 times more water per day , I don't mind doing 2-3 first cleans a day or a week but I wouldn't want to do it all day long!! 😓
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if not more.....and battery!
don't forget as you've never cleaned these houses before you don't what problems your going to encounter.
Err on the side of caution, don't waste money or custom.
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these are wps t&c they got ripped off by a lad from burnley who got them to build a round up my way which they did pretty easily, 2 days i think but then had to come up and do the first clean themselves, over £700 worth which they did in under 2 days, i met them cos they needed a pure top up , yan seems dead genuine i might use him when my son goes on his own. the work is still for sale i think
TERMS OF BUSINESS
1. PAYMENTS
Payments are due in full every friday evening of generation. If you are cleaning the work before payment and you have cancels full payment for these jobs are still due. We accept BACS & Cash ONLY.
2. CANCELLATIONS
WPS GENERATION shall not replace any job that has been reported to have had a bad clean or late arrivals. All cancelled customers will be investigated by our company reps. Replacement jobs are due once all work bought is cleaned and complete.WPS GENERATIONRequire all information of cancelled jobs on the form provided, any jobs with part information will not be replaced. We will not accept any deductions of money owed to us. We replace we DO NOT REFUND.
3. GUARANTEE
We offer a 3 clean guarantee. This means we guarantee you will get at least 3 cleans out of every job provided to you. For example : if one job cancels that is worth £10 and you have done no cleans, We will replace that job with a £10 job. If for example one clean had been done we will replace part of the job taking into account charge of the job.
4. CUSTOMERS
IAll customers/jobs will be provided with the following ;
Name, Address, Phone number, price of job, Site notes
IIf any job is delivered without a phone number we will explain within site notes.
5. DEPOSITS & PRE-GENERATION
WPS GENERATION Will sometimes ask for a 10% deposit for holding generation slots. We will provide a full invoice for this and any deposits paid are NON refundable if cancelled. Once a deposit is paid and booked in we will require you to provide us with full information of your company and locations for generation.
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its amazing how the stick rates are so good ,fantastic stuff it's also amazing how they have time to fit you in with those stick rates I'm supprised anyone has let them go looks like we're onto a winner Rodney!!!
Consider £500 max as a trail tho £1,000 is £3,000 worth of exposure gives you a chance to really enjoy what's about to happen sure it'll be very good just saying ..
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I did a grands worth. Second cleans coming up.......
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I did a grands worth. Second cleans coming up.......
cool did you get a grand in?
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I did a grands worth. Second cleans coming up.......
So you hope. ;D
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When's this update coming?
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Well, nearly 6 months later, think I’m down maybe 12 jobs out of 50 or so. However, I was given a £500 fsg etc. And a few others as result of cleaning the work. Walk ups etc.
I’m not going to chase up the cancellations as simply not worth the hassle.
Maybe we’ll use them again, if the price was better.......
You are always better canvassing yourself, unless you’re a hideous monster.
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Losing that amount is what I'd expect from buying a round as well, it's one of these bitter pills you need to swallow. Just about to sign up for it.
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Having used various canvassers quite a few times, the conclusion I've drawn is its all a bit overpriced at 3x.
Expect to lose half to 2 thirds over the first years. Still it's a long term investment.
Best bet is to employ someone on a part time basis or do it yourself of course.
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I went canvassing myself the other day and got none! Lost my touch, not as desperate as I was at the start.
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i have got them booked here and are doing just a grand for the 1st trip in about a months time , they have been helpful this far
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Good afternoon all
WOW amazing read all that. Everyone has their opinion on canvassing so I'm not disagreeing with any comment on here.
Hi I'm the director at WPS GENERATION
First question I will answer is the pyramid marketing one.
WE ARE NOT INVOLVED WITH THEM. They are x employees attempting to replicate our success.
We are window cleaners and have 4 vans on the road ourselves. This is what makes us different to the rest, we know all the pit falls with new customers and understand the pain it is. Other canvasser’s just don’t know this valued information. All my staff (10 in total) are fully trained in WFP & Trad work. They are all trained how to quote and how to provide all the vital info they need to pass to the customer.
Our guarantee is to cover your investment. We are always happy to replace. I have a dedicated team just for replacements. I call them the mop up crew lol
We can’t control customers but we can protect you so we do
Kind Regards
Yan Whittaker
WPS GENERATION
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It's a big shame Paul Dale does not do much if this anymore. He was great.
He always used to book a bit extra on for free to cover any drop outs. Plus guaranteed them. Only charged 2 x monthly rate.
Two years later I still have 75% of my work from it.
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It's a big shame Paul Dale does not do much if this anymore. He was great.
He always used to book a bit extra on for free to cover any drop outs. Plus guaranteed them. Only charged 2 x monthly rate.
Two years later I still have 75% of my work from it.
Yes Paul was great.
I did have a few drop outs with him but he only charged 2x and refunded me for drop outs.
Still got some great customers he got me.
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I was very interested in this service but haven't replied to my email
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So....if Iv understood this correctly, regarding the 3 clean guarantee- if a £10 job gets cleaned once and then cancels - you replace it with a job that is a two thirds of the value?
How do you replace a £10 job with part of a job ? Do you replace it with a £6 job ?
Or if they cancel after 2 cleans , then it gets replaced with a £3 job?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1516521675_25CEE77C-5AB0-458C-B7A5-98635D95FC34.png)
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I was very interested in this service but haven't replied to my email
Sorry rich
Please resend I don't seem to have received it
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It's a big shame Paul Dale does not do much if this anymore. He was great.
He always used to book a bit extra on for free to cover any drop outs. Plus guaranteed them. Only charged 2 x monthly rate.
Two years later I still have 75% of my work from it.
We also do this where we can
Try to over generate about 10%
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Full Review of using WPS Generation for Canvassing.
I want to be as detailed as possible because for those who are maybe unsure or using a canvasser or don't know what to expect i think it's important to be detailed listing the good and the bad points and what to realistically expect.
I Booked WPS Generation for £1,000 worth of monthly work which cost me £3,000 total. You pay for x 3 cleans.
These are my results.
They Canvassed me £1104. Over generated £100 of work. Most of the work was monthly with a few bi monthly.
Some of the customers didn't want their windows cleaning straight away. Some said start next month, some said start January. So that obviously affects the monthly figures straight away. Also some of the customers decided after the first clean to go onto Bi Monthly so this affects the monthly values too, but the custom is still there.
75 customers Canvassed in total. Of which about 8 where underpriced between £2-5 with one customer being underpriced by £10. There were around 5 customers though that were overpriced by atleast £2-£3. So prices generally where really good apart from the odd 1 or 2. All customers where told by myself that they were slightly underpriced and apart from 2 customers all accepted the new increased price.
1st Month/Clean - We cleaned £807
2nd Month/Clean - We cleaned £689 (week before xmas wasn't really the best idea)
3rd Month/Clean - We cleaned £775 - Also from this we gained £400 of addons we did this month. Total this month was £1175
Total Cleaned after 3 Months/cleans = £2,271 - Inc Addons = £2,671
After 3 Months/Cleans here are the dropouts.
Cancelled before we got chance to do the 1st clean - £230
Cancelled after the 1st clean - £37
Cancelled after the 2nd clean - £56
Cancelled after the 3rd clean - £13
Total Cancelled - £336
Ofcourse you get new customers from walkups seeing you work. So far picked up 6 Customers totalling £95 monthly and just done a few more quotes too yesterday all whilst doing this canvassed work.
My Personal Review
It cost us £3000, and after 3rd Clean/Month we have done £2,671. By the 4th clean i will have made my investment back on what it cost me. By the 5th clean, i will be in profit for the fuel/wages it cost me to get my workers to help me with this new work.
Basically though for a one man band operation you will be back in profit by the 3rd if not the 4th clean. That's a Return On Investment of 25-30% per month, which to me is excellent. I have run several other businesses before and most of which if i made an investment into the business on average it would take 6-12 months to get my investment back and sometimes longer at that. I am currently investing into another non related business and my return on investment is 5% per month and i'm still happy with that as it's a passive income business.
If you can't Canvas, don't want to canvas or like me (current health issues) cant canvas, then i would highly recommend this service 100%. I have canvassed myself over the years, so for me this was about trying something different and seeing how good the results would be. Ofcourse nobody is ever going to be as selective or thorough as you are when canvassing because they dont know exactly the way you run your business, only you do. But that being said, i am very happy and impressed with using WPS Generation for canvassing.
I physically can't canvas at the moment and likely for some time, so this is essential for me if i want to grow my business. That being said even if you can canvas, i would still recommend this service to those who can afford to grow your business by investing money into it rather than time.
The 1st Cleans were a ball ache, we did £800+ in just over a 7 day span, lots of hard work at the time, but hoping that it will be worth it and pays off when you are left with good solid customers after 3-6 months/cleans in.
This review i wanted to be honest and realistic. I couldn't find much helpful information anywhere online when considering using canvassers for about a year or so. I think the pros and cons should always be listed. Aside from the Cancellations and customers underpriced, the only other problems we had was that some of the customers thought the service was 5 weekly instead of it being 4 weekly and ofcourse some of the customers were messers and you know the ones when before you even get out to clean you can tell theres a good chance they could be a messer. Well we had a few of those aswell, but not lots.
Just like when you canvas yourself, you always get atleast a few nutters or messers every now and then, you can't really expect any less getting someone else to canvas can you?
WPS Generation replaces any customers that cancel before you get 3 cleans aslong as it's a genuine cancellation, and not because you did a bad job or anything.
I have booked Yan @ WPS in again for some more canvassing in the next few months and they are going to replace me the work lost. So in theory i will have made my investment back + be getting more customers canvassed for free in a few months.
So for me going forward if everything goes to plan i will be using Yan and his excellent team in the future.
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, happy to help anyone considering using a canvasser.
Cheers
Josh
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Hi Josh
Thankyou for taking the time to write this review.
I must add that this generation was done under our old product.
We now have canvass +.
CANVASS + is our new way of doing things and cuts down the messers as you say by another 5-6%
Again thank you for your review and we look forward to working with you again in the near future
Kind regards
Yan Whittaker
Www.wpsgeneration.co.uk
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So you were given 1100 and cleaned 800 ish the first time.
I take it the 300 were cancels?
Sounds about right to me with canvassed work.
It does pay off in the end just takes 4/5 cleans.
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So you were given 1100 and cleaned 800 ish the first time.
I take it the 300 were cancels?
Sounds about right to me with canvassed work.
It does pay off in the end just takes 4/5 cleans.
I cleaned £800 ish because some said they didnt want to start until the following month and a few said start january etc. So that brought numbers down on first clean by atleast £100-£150. Some even said they had window cleaner but he was rubbish so had to bin him off first etc..
Yeah its hard work at the time, but too be honest after 3/4 cleans and getting rid of some of the messers you know where your at and your left with profit and a good round to work with. So happy i decided to try this. Would of taken me so long to canvas £1100 rather just save time and use money to invest instead. Works better for me. When i used to canvas i would average £10-£20 per hour in new customers. So for me thats like 50-100 hours of canvassing, and unless your doing like 20 hours a week canvassing minimum then its going too take you ages to get those kind of results. Would for me atleast anyway.
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Hi Josh
Thankyou for taking the time to write this review.
I must add that this generation was done under our old product.
We now have canvass +.
CANVASS + is our new way of doing things and cuts down the messers as you say by another 5-6%
Again thank you for your review and we look forward to working with you again in the near future
Kind regards
Yan Whittaker
Www.wpsgeneration.co.uk
Hi Yan,
Yes have got you booked in for the Canvas + looking forward to seeing how the results differ with your new service.
Either way you guys do a good job, be helpful if more left reviews i think.
Cheers
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I wonder if you would have gotten less messers if they are informed their only option of payment was direct debit. On the flip side you may have not of got as many customers in the first place.
Also does the canvassing company expect you to take all types of payment?
I tell new customers now its either bacs or dd with dd being pushed first, i find the ones who are prepared to pay by dd are more genuine customers who are looking for a long term cleaner .
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we too have just had yan and his team hear i.e. 3 days ago ......
we haven't cleaned any of the work yet but as for there conduct up too now its been very good , they always get back to you when you email them or ring them ect ect
,i found both yan and harry good to talk to on the phone , one of there canvassers a guy called luke was a diamond of guy i never met this man but had him on the phone about three times double checking stuff which i liked
i also found that he knew what he was talking which made me feel happier knowing that it was not just salesman knocking on the doors
i will update this after we have cleaned the work , we also have had him pencil us in for a anther visit in three months time
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I dont see how paying x3 for canvassed work is a good investment, we all know that after 6 months only 50 percent will retain as canvassers sign up any old work no matter how great they make out they are!.
Simply put an add up in a shop window or gumtree and pay someone £10 per retained customer or better still if your short of work canvass yourself or with a friend or family member!
When i used to canvass i charged x2 and though everyone i canvassed for were simple people who i could dictate to what and how id get there customers..at least have savvy and only ask for detached houses and ones with full access or you will end up with loads of front only cleans that are charged the full whack for the backs too knowing there is 99% of the time no rear access, dictate to the canvasser if you want the cream work.
Will take a canvasser 2 mins at a door to gain a £15 job for which you will hand over £45 for. Save yourself £45 per customer and spend the 2 mins yourself signing them up.. to make it good in the window cleaning game you must be good at talking with the public and selling your own services and not relying on someone else unless its to rapid grow for van 3/4/5 and so on.
Failing that put adds on facebook pages saying this week we are cleaning in x area leave me a message if you want to be added to the round.
If paying a stranger £3000 to gain just £1000 of poor to medium quality work that will slowly dwindle down is a good investment then by all means crack on.
Just putting it out there that there are much better ways to gain quality work.
The best 1 by far is target sold houses in posh upper class areas, canvassers cant do this for you and you can control what houses your adding to your business, quality work
2nd obviously being new builds. A canvasser will always try and hit a new build as are so easy to gain customers.. can gain 10/15 new customers in a few hours. Pay someone else £600 for the 2 hours or save yourself £600 and knock yourself for 2 hours, only problem is a higher dropout rate.
The hardest houses to get are detached and big houses in nice areas..get canvassers to hit these areas if you are going to use them as the retention rate will be close to 100 percent and it will make the canvassers work harder to earn there easy money.