Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Rcs on April 23, 2010, 07:06:17 am

Title: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Rcs on April 23, 2010, 07:06:17 am
had some new signs made for the fellas van who looking after my business when i move to spain
due to popular demand had traditional window cleaner put on there in big letters
i had a least 10 people this week comment on how they prefer --the old way rather than using them pole things!!
ive also had customers ask me to do there window the traditional way
there still seems to be a lot of bad vibes amongst custies when using wfp
anyone else feeling this
i was going to invest in a new wfp system for him as im taking mine with him
but is it worth it
are there many out there who purely do traditional
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Frankybadboy on April 23, 2010, 07:20:15 am
god it been a whole week since wfp vs trad been brought up.here we go again. ;D
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: paul rulton on April 23, 2010, 07:25:34 am
god it been a whole week since wfp vs trad been brought up.here we go again. ;D
just wot i was thinking  ::) start it all up again them clear off 2 spain  ;D ;D
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: jonnyald on April 23, 2010, 07:25:44 am
ive only been going trad 2 years so a lot of my customers are CAST OFFS where a previous w.f.p had bad results,tales of flooding whatave you  and theres some real hostility to w.f.p  out there . trad is bleedin hard graft but iv no option  and one bonus of doing it trad is theres a real heartfelt gratitude when theyv got you. im forever hearing "thank god,iv found you "   or  " please keep coming ,never stop,i havent upset you in any way have i ?"   and similar nice to hear stuff
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Jack Wallace on April 23, 2010, 07:28:38 am
Providing the wfp system is being used correctly and the results are as good as they should be most customers see the benefit and like it.

Sure some will prefer the traditional way and either put up with wfp or look elsewhere but I have only had a handful in 7 years.

In my opinion the majority don’t give a *** as long as there windows are clean.  ;D
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Rcs on April 23, 2010, 07:30:26 am
i have  i particular customer who will not let wfp used on there windows they are steel crittal type and the water floods in as the seals are mucked in around the windows
its a old listed house due to planning they need to be replaced like for like etc and they cant afford the expense
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Ken on April 23, 2010, 07:34:20 am
I've just taken on some new work and a number of notes on the work sheets say "no wfp, use ladders". I'm sorry, who's the tradesperson here? "Hello Mr. Decorator, I don't want you to use a roller, I'd like you to use an artists brush." I want to do a good job, but I also don't want to die when I'm doing it!
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: daz1977 on April 23, 2010, 07:37:14 am
does any one think that if you said to a custy that to do there windows trad would be 20 or wfp would be 10,  i reacon the majority would go for wfp as its the cheapest

the only reason a lot dont like wfp is that it takes about 10 minutes to do and is easy work in the custys eye, and they want u to work hard for your money

i drop custy who want there windows done trad, i aint falling of a ladder for no one
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Jack Wallace on April 23, 2010, 07:46:21 am
This debate is worse than the one on the telly. At least that one will end on May 6th.

There is a place for all types of window cleaning, Each should be used where and when appropriate. Judged by you not Mrs Jones at number 13. (Unless she is now running your business.)
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Darranvps on April 23, 2010, 08:01:38 am
From reading the forum, these are my thoughts on the subject.
Most traditional window cleaners know how to clean a window properly. They understand the safe practice of using ladders. Once they adapt to WFP they understand how to use it quite quickly, and usually end up doing a good job.

WFP has made it easy for anybody to become a window cleaner, however if the wfp operator has never done traditional cleaning, with squeegees, scrims etc, I think they will help give the WFP a bad name amongst customers, because perhaps they are not good enough window cleaners?

Even though my business will use WFP wherever possible, all of my staff will be taught how to use traditional equipment as well, back in the old days I would teach staff thoroughly how to use ladders, squeegees etc, and believe it takes about six months to teach and train them properly. With WFP teaching traditional methods will take the trainee considerably longer?
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Rcs on April 23, 2010, 08:14:17 am
The last thread is a valid point
wfp have opened the floodgates To hundreds of clueless wannabies
I worked weekends for a friend for 5 years before starting on my own and only ever done traditional
have worked from ladders and have never fallen but there is always that risk
I can honestly say I prefer trad - only when it's summer but wfp is safer and more cost effective from a business point of view
but like a lot of trades innovation has given way to traditional skills
a good percentage od wfp users would not have a clue on cleaning traditionally
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: cozy on April 23, 2010, 08:17:27 am
Well put. Can't remember who said it, but during one of the "ladders are banned" posts, one guy said "Ladders will be banned by EU rules soon anyway, can't wait". My question was "Why can't you wait?"

What difference does it make how any of us work? If I had a WFP guy in any area we work, it wouldn't really bother me. If he got more custies and earned more than I did, then I'd be looking at WFP as the next step.

I think the points made by Darran are on the nail. I think that some guys who have never learned trad skills could feel threatened by having trad competition on the same working area.

The market will sort its self out at some point. You can't browbeat people into changing methods.
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Rcs on April 23, 2010, 08:24:11 am
Ladders are not illegal to use but if you work to to hse guidelines etc
you should explore all avaliable methods of working
and have 3 points of contact to the ladder ie 2 feet and 1 hand
this is difficult to achieve
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: AuRavelling79 on April 23, 2010, 08:29:45 am
Ladders are not illegal to use but if you work to to hse guidelines etc
you should explore all avaliable methods of working
and have 3 pints  of contact to the ladder ie 2 feet and 1 hand
this is difficult to achieve

Especially after 3 pints!  ;D

Do custies prefer traditional?

Some do ... especially white haired little old ladies who haven't seen me shine their frames cills and panes to a glistening lustre with my supalite brush on a stick!
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: cozy on April 23, 2010, 08:33:36 am
 ;D ;D ;D Trust Malc to spot that
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on April 23, 2010, 08:48:29 am
I think some prefer it simply because they like to think that the winow cleaner has worked hard for his money. They are still in the Master/Slave scenario. WFP dose appear to be less difficult and quicker. 
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Sir Squeaky on April 23, 2010, 08:52:59 am
I don't agree that it's the time taken.

From my experience it's always been about the windows left wet and "unfinished"
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Platinum on April 23, 2010, 09:31:11 am
Yes
Window cleaners prefer the wfp method because its easier, cost effective (in terms of cleaning houses were you would require assistance/employee doing trad methods, said to be quicker and cleans the frames meaning you can charge more). Also means anyone can become a window cleaner without knowing how to clean windows.

Customers hate it because it doesnt leave the clean spot free finish traditional methods do. They leave the window wet, wet the property, wet the ground in wonter(worries of ice), it looks like your just hosing the windows - Thats just feedback off my customers after i sold my system.

Glad im back trad now  ;D
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Pj on April 23, 2010, 09:43:39 am
I won't go up a ladder.  But for ground floor I just do whatever they ask for.  Some prefer them bladed some prefer the water thing with a stick and brush.  Some hate them left wet some say once they dry they're gleaming.

Frankly, my dear...
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Steve_c on April 23, 2010, 09:47:17 am
Wfp is far superior to trad, but only if its done properly. Customers who prefer Trad have usually had some one who has not done the job properly. I did trad part time when i started out, then when i switched to full time and to WFP the benefits were great, quicker easier and safer and the results are much better.
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: mr D on April 23, 2010, 09:52:15 am
Blar blar blar. All been done 100 times before.


I love trad because....
I love WFP because...
wfp sucks because.....
trad sucks because....
your mums so fat she....
my gran is harder than your gran...
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Steve_c on April 23, 2010, 10:04:08 am
From reading the forum, these are my thoughts on the subject.
Most traditional window cleaners know how to clean a window properly. They understand the safe practice of using ladders. Once they adapt to WFP they understand how to use it quite quickly, and usually end up doing a good job.

WFP has made it easy for anybody to become a window cleaner, however if the wfp operator has never done traditional cleaning, with squeegees, scrims etc, I think they will help give the WFP a bad name amongst customers, because perhaps they are not good enough window cleaners?

Even though my business will use WFP wherever possible, all of my staff will be taught how to use traditional equipment as well, back in the old days I would teach staff thoroughly how to use ladders, squeegees etc, and believe it takes about six months to teach and train them properly. With WFP teaching traditional methods will take the trainee considerably longer?
Yep a good constuctive reply
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: williamx on April 23, 2010, 01:16:15 pm
People in this country do not like change and thats a fact, you still have the old brigade who want steam trains brought back.

Supermarkets should be closed down and the old reliable corner shop who used to close on a wednesday afternoon should be the only shops allowed.

This country since the industrial revolution has always objected to change.

In 50 years time, if there was to be a new method to clean windows, you would have people up in arms because they want it done the olf fasioned way (wfp).

Cleaning windows using a squeegie or a wfp has the same effect if they are used correctly, the window is left clean.

If you do not know how to use a squeeger or wfp then the end result is going to draw criticism from the customer, and the tool you are using is going to take most of the blame.

With wfp, the major drawback in customers eyes, is the windows are left wet after they have been cleaned, if the windows where left dry, then  most customers would be happy.

Mind you you would still have some old die-hards who still perfer their windows cleaned with a shammy let alone that new squeegie thingy!!!

I personally I don't care what a cleaner uses to clean windows, but I do object when a cleaner dies when there was no need.

Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: paul rulton on April 23, 2010, 01:29:37 pm
Blar blar blar. All been done 100 times before.


I love trad because....
I love WFP because...
wfp sucks because.....
trad sucks because....
your mums so fat she....
my gran is harder than your gran...
;D lol here here mr D  ;)
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Murdie window cleaning on April 23, 2010, 02:16:00 pm
And the debate goes on and on, if the end result = clean windows then every ones a winner.

I've just started using wfp in the last couple of days and I've only had one customer express any concern, but I told her if she wasn't happy with the outcome to give me a phone and I'd go back and re-clean for free, no phone call yet.

As for it being easier, I'm not sure about that, I'm knackered now and my arms are ready to drop off.
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Alun Whyte on April 23, 2010, 03:39:36 pm
If a joiner came to your house to do a job you wouldnt say i want the wood cut with a particular type of saw or direct a plumber to use particular tools only. They would tell you to get lost. I use a combination of the 2 methods depending on what the job dictates not what the customer tells me they think i should use.

Im the professional and unless there is a H+S or valid reason why not one method or the other cannot be used then i choose my tools
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: james44 on April 23, 2010, 03:41:35 pm
Quote
With wfp, the major drawback in customers eyes, is the windows are left wet after they have been cleaned, if the windows where left dry, then  most customers would be happy.

Having i been saying this!
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: wfp master on April 23, 2010, 04:37:52 pm
From reading the forum, these are my thoughts on the subject.
Most traditional window cleaners know how to clean a window properly. They understand the safe practice of using ladders. Once they adapt to WFP they understand how to use it quite quickly, and usually end up doing a good job.

WFP has made it easy for anybody to become a window cleaner, however if the wfp operator has never done traditional cleaning, with squeegees, scrims etc, I think they will help give the WFP a bad name amongst customers, because perhaps they are not good enough window cleaners?

Even though my business will use WFP wherever possible, all of my staff will be taught how to use traditional equipment as well, back in the old days I would teach staff thoroughly how to use ladders, squeegees etc, and believe it takes about six months to teach and train them properly. With WFP teaching traditional methods will take the trainee considerably longer?
yes very true good post.
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: Paul Coleman on April 23, 2010, 05:33:13 pm
Ladders are not illegal to use but if you work to to hse guidelines etc
you should explore all avaliable methods of working
and have 3 points of contact to the ladder ie 2 feet and 1 hand
this is difficult to achieve

That's right.  To comply with the law, if I need to take a pole onto a flat roof, I grip the rung in my teeth as the third point of contact.
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: scrubberscleanings on April 23, 2010, 06:00:22 pm
i use my extremely large thingy tied to the top rung in a lovely reef knot
that my third point of contact
almost forgot
i fell of once and it was like having a built in bungy
very safe
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: dave.e on April 23, 2010, 06:08:56 pm
i use my extremely large thingy tied to the top rung in a lovely reef knot
that my third point of contact
almost forgot
i fell of once and it was like having a built in bungy
very safe

lol ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: do custies prefer traditional
Post by: formb on April 23, 2010, 06:19:15 pm
From reading the forum, these are my thoughts on the subject.
Most traditional window cleaners know how to clean a window properly. They understand the safe practice of using ladders. Once they adapt to WFP they understand how to use it quite quickly, and usually end up doing a good job.

WFP has made it easy for anybody to become a window cleaner, however if the wfp operator has never done traditional cleaning, with squeegees, scrims etc, I think they will help give the WFP a bad name amongst customers, because perhaps they are not good enough window cleaners?

Even though my business will use WFP wherever possible, all of my staff will be taught how to use traditional equipment as well, back in the old days I would teach staff thoroughly how to use ladders, squeegees etc, and believe it takes about six months to teach and train them properly. With WFP teaching traditional methods will take the trainee considerably longer?
Yep a good constuctive reply
Agreed