Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: giovanni on April 09, 2010, 09:01:04 pm
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anybody used fan jet brushes
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just got second hand brush with fan jets works realy well but uses more water I think.
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Have read up on these on other forums, some people like them, but a lot did not and there seemed to be issues with the rinsing of the windows so sticking to jets at the mo.
Darran
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look good but rubish :-X :-X :-X
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I use them. If I want pencils I just turn the flow down.
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You need a high flow rate to get a good fan. So it uses more. Also less accurate if you need to avoid the top of a frame or something, but they have their uses.
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You need a high flow rate to get a good fan. So it uses more. Also less accurate if you need to avoid the top of a frame or something, but they have their uses.
Fan jets don't use more water, you just have the brush on the glass for less time.
Every window regardless of the amount of dirt on it needs a certain amount of water to get a good finish. Now you have two choices. First choice less water, which results in longer on the glass. Second choice, more water shorter time on the glass.
A fan jet with the pump on full power shouldn't use any more water than a pencil jet with the pump on full power, but for a fan jet to be effective the power on the pump has to be turned up. Not a problem I should think because you simply can work faster.
Now it is a different storey for people who want to lift the brush off the glass to rinse separately, they may or may not use more or less water with a fan or pencil jet, this is not covered in the above as in my opinion it is a complete and utter wast of time, and water.
Peter
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What Peter said!
Malc Gold of the "Started with one of Peter's trolleys and a fanjet salmon brush" class. (Then I went pencil and then back to fan again.)
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You need a high flow rate to get a good fan. So it uses more. Also less accurate if you need to avoid the top of a frame or something, but they have their uses.
Fan jets don't use more water, you just have the brush on the glass for less time.
Every window regardless of the amount of dirt on it needs a certain amount of water to get a good finish. Now you have two choices. First choice less water, which results in longer on the glass. Second choice, more water shorter time on the glass. I thought you had to rise all the time???
A fan jet with the pump on full power shouldn't use any more water than a pencil jet with the pump on full power, but for a fan jet to be effective the power on the pump has to be turned up. Not a problem I should think because you simply can work faster.
Now it is a different storey for people who want to lift the brush off the glass to rinse separately, they may or may not use more or less water with a fan or pencil jet, this is not covered in the above as in my opinion it is a complete and utter wast of time, and water.
Peter
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I thought you had to rise all the time????
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I thought you had to rise all the time????
You are rinsing while your brush is travelling over the glass, you shouldn't need to lift your brush off the glass to rinse though. That's hard work, and the harder it is the higher you go.
It is handy rinsing off the glass though if your on one of them jobs that is well over priced and you want to spend longer than you need, or if your wife is in a nagging mood and you are in no rush to get home. Or even if you want to build up the muscles in your arms.
As far as accuracy goes when comparing fan with pencil jets, if you keep the brush on the glass then you can forget about accuracy with fan jets, wherever the brush goes the water goes. If the brush travels along the top of the glass that is where the water goes. If the brush travels down the side of the frame then that is where the water goes. No need to lift the brush off the frame and aim the water in to get to the edge of the frame.
Peter
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Peter,
Logic tells me that fan jets should rinse better than pencil jets due to the coverage and even spray, i have quite a fast flow rate as i feel this gives a better result but with pencils i can get quite a lot of water 'bounce' i lift off when rinsing as that was the way i was shown.
how long have you used fan jets ? - are they effective for really heavy 1st cleans ? heavy dirt, spiders web/nests and leaf build ups?
or best for 2nd clean onwards
cheers
Darran
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Fan jets are messy when rinsing. Look great, and even sound great on window lol. Suppose if you dont rinse off glass shouldnt be a problem.
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i was fan jets for a few years, then i changed over to pencil jets , i will never go back to fans again, pencil is very accurate, saves on water,
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when you say messy do you mean that when rinsing it does the frames as well or half the surrounding house?
Darran
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I always got wet feet from fan jets,.. I'll never go back.
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Fan jets leave very small droplets of water on the glass compared with pencil.This results in the water having to evaporate off rather than running off.As most know the best results are obtained when the windows are left as dry as possible!! So reach your own conclusions!!!
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I always used fan jets and tried the pencil ones last week,I found that it took ages to rinse a window that beads up,they are very accurate but they are not for me,they are useless on certain windows and use alot more water than fan jets,they are only good on windows that sheet but I will never use them again as I will stick to fan jets as I've always done.
Like Peter said you don't need to lift off the window when rinseing,well not on regular cleans but I do on first cleans maybe a few inches off and as for water going everywhere it is down to the control of the opetator but all in all I think they are far more superior than pencil jets on both style of windows and use far less water on the same flow rate ;)
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Slash - cheers for that,
it's the windows that bead that i am concerned with, i do lots of places with big picture windows 5 to 8 feet across and these usually bead and take a long time to rinse (sometimes i feel like getting the squeegee out!)
i do like to get a curtain of water going
maybe it's like most things you get used to and good with what you have to hand rather than this works better than that
Darran
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Peter,
how long have you used fan jets ? - are they effective for really heavy 1st cleans ? heavy dirt, spiders web/nests and leaf build ups?
or best for 2nd clean onwards
cheers
Darran
It must be around 10 years ago I started using them, but don't really clean windows anymore as I sell equipment now instead. And yes they are ideal for the above, and not just on regular cleaned stuff.
Peter
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Some very interesting comments on what uses more water fans or pencil.
I remember years ago a customer who had bought a brush with fan jets phoning me up after he had used them a few weeks. He said he had the brush tested in a lab where he cleaned windows and they had actually measured the amounts of water used with both types of jets and he gave me a certain percentage of water that was saved using the fan. I cant remember the figure or how it was done, but I was not in the least surprised at his comments. A fan spray will use less water, give better coverage, and a better clean than a pencil jet. Less water because it is coming out under more pressure. Better coverage because it gets right up to the edge of the brush. A better clean because it is under more pressure.
Now for the very observant ones that have picked up on the more water with pencils, and my earlier comments on time saving with higher flow rates. I still think the fans are just a fast if not faster, with less water because under the more pressure, more of the water is getting to the glass, and in a more effective way.
More people use pencil jets than fans because they are sold them, pencil jets are much easier to obtain and make. I have even seen them made out of a self tapped screw with a hole drilled in it.
I know some people will always prefer different things to others but the laws of physics is involved here.
Peter
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Peter, thanks again,
i can confirm that making a pencil jet is very straight forward and would take around 1 minute on a cnc lathe ( set up to make hundreds )
are the fan jets the same as on cuprinol sprayers ? - these look like a moulded part ? or are they better quality ?
think i might get some and give it a go.
cheers
Darran
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i use pencils and if you use the right technique on beading glass, there is no problem, you cant expect the water to do all the work for you
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Peter, thanks again,
i can confirm that making a pencil jet is very straight forward and would take around 1 minute on a cnc lathe ( set up to make hundreds )
are the fan jets the same as on cuprinol sprayers ? - these look like a moulded part ? or are they better quality ?
think i might get some and give it a go.
cheers
Darran
I don't know about others fan jets where they get them or how they are made. Mines are 6mm blank plugs that go into 6mm quick connect connectors. I put a slit in with a hacksaw , and then partly drill from the inside into the cut. This produces a very effective fan spray. I did try years ago some custom made fan sprays, one costing £13, but it just didn't do what I needed it to do, so I made my own.
Peter
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i use pencils and if you use the right technique on beading glass, there is no problem, you cant expect the water to do all the work for you
Bristles, bristle density, water distribution, water flow, water pressure, technique, this is what you expect to do all the work for you, and it does.
Back in the old days of traditional cleaning I have seen me when needed dipping my applicator in a puddle of dirty water when my bucket was too far away to go for a dip. Now the particular window was done to the same standard as every other window, but dosn't mean I would use this solution every day as my preferred solution.
Yes you can go out with a backpack (sorry for bringing backpacks into this) and a Vikan brush with pencil jets and get an excellent finish, but it dosn't mean to say that this is the best way of working.
Like a few people here have stated, lifting the brush to rinse separately is what they have been taught, much the same as the pencil jets, they have been taught to use them when they were sold them from their supplier. Now some people will try something different and it may take a slightly different technique, and they just think it is not as good because they are using their old technique with their new equipment, so go back to their old way of working.
Now obviously this dosn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to a lot. And it will also apply to people using fan jets as well when they try pencils, but again I say physics apply here.
Peter