Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Willis on April 09, 2010, 07:39:01 am
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In my area. One guy painting his house came off and smashed both arms - airlifted away with bones poking out of his skin.
Another was a neighbour of one of my custys old chap smashed his ankles and nearly bled to death 'cos he's on that blood thinning drug.
His mrs had a go at him "I'll be alright I've been climbing ladders since I was fifteen years old!" he's well up in his seventies now and will not be able to walk for twelve weeks at least.
Got to get up my ladder in a mo to check someones gutter out, puts me off a bit.
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If you heard on the radio that someone has a car crash near you and 2people died would it put you off driving? If you use ladders for your job then you know where it is safe and not so safe to use them. If they were working at home the xchances are they had a cheap b&q bargain ladder and wernt careful where they were useing them. People just need to use common sence and look for potential dangers first.
Happy laddering
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If you heard on the radio that someone has a car crash near you and 2people died would it put you off driving? If you use ladders for your job then you know where it is safe and not so safe to use them. If they were working at home the xchances are they had a cheap b&q bargain ladder and wernt careful where they were useing them. People just need to use common sence and look for potential dangers first.
Happy laddering
So how come so many "professionals" (not just windies) die or are badly injured every year?
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1 death per week according to government statistics;
http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/statistics.htm
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One a week is one a week too many, but that's out of how many ladder deployments? Across the country there must be hundreds of thousands of individual ladder deployments every day. If I wasn't using wfp today the close I've done this morning would have had me up a ladder 60 or 70 times. Statistics need context to have value.
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one death per week but how many of those deaths are people that use safe methods and use the ladder every day, i bet most of those deaths are diy people and people taking stupid risks on ladders
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If you heard on the radio that someone has a car crash near you and 2people died would it put you off driving? If you use ladders for your job then you know where it is safe and not so safe to use them. If they were working at home the xchances are they had a cheap b&q bargain ladder and wernt careful where they were useing them. People just need to use common sence and look for potential dangers first.
Happy laddering
This is only true if you have been trained to use them properly!!
Joe Bloggs doesnt know a damn thing without some sort of training.
Matt
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I feel sorry for the people that have been hurt and yes wfp is 100% but there is still people that cant afford it me included also you cant paint a house or do any other high jobs with wfp.
Accidents happen last year i gashed my inner thigh with and angle grinder 11 stitches and 6 weeks for graze to go and when i went to a & e they told me it's common but are grinders going to be banned as there is a alternative drill with wire head and that cleans rust of better (wish i had known that before).But there will always be accident and risky jobs the main thing is to not rush and stay concentrated and you will be ok thats my view anyway.Also finally a year on and my leg scar had faded alot the nurse did a great job ;D.
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Icwalker, how much can you afford for a WFP set up?
I ask this as I may be able to help you.
Email me.
Matt
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Icwalker, how much can you afford for a WFP set up?
I ask this as I may be able to help you.
Email me.
Matt
Well what id like to do is get a back pack /trolley to do the tops as my partner does the bottoms i think this way i could make do with less water, as for what i can afford well ive had alot of unexpected expense lately it's a matter of selling stuff i have to fund it, how can you help me? as it's not just the back pack/trolley money it's the filter system aswell but not having a wfp is restricting me as alot of houses in my area have hard to reach windows.
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if you are frightened of using ladder then dont use one, but at the same time stop trying to be everyone elses concience, i know the risks of using a ladder and although i dont use them much now due to wfp they are still a good tool for some work i do ie high internal windows.
If ladders was the only tool we had i would still use them as said i know the risks and it is up to me whether i decide to take the risk or not the same goes for anything people do ie smoking, driving or riding a motorbike.
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if you are frightened of using ladder then dont use one, but at the same time stop trying to be everyone elses concience, i know the risks of using a ladder and although i dont use them much now due to wfp they are still a good tool for some work i do ie high internal windows.
If ladders was the only tool we had i would still use them as said i know the risks and it is up to me whether i decide to take the risk or not the same goes for anything people do ie smoking, driving or riding a motorbike.
I agree. But my problems arise from an employers point of view. I sent guys out for years to climb ladders up to 100 times a day. I gave sufficient ladder and safety training. I feel it was more luck than training that saw me through those years without serious incident.
I am now WFP and what happens?
A guy who has worked for me for 7 years, one of the most competent window cleaners I know, goes up a ladder to access a window from a flat roof, leaves it untethered (against our H&S policy) and it falls and lands on a car.
Now this is a sensible lad, extensively trained, but I'm willing to bet that you would have done the same as he did.
I aint downing ladders, quite the opposite, I think they are quite often the safest method for our job.
I think though that if you are going to use them you should be aware what risks there are.
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Icwalker, how much can you afford for a WFP set up?
I ask this as I may be able to help you.
Email me.
Matt
Well what id like to do is get a back pack /trolley to do the tops as my partner does the bottoms i think this way i could make do with less water, as for what i can afford well ive had alot of unexpected expense lately it's a matter of selling stuff i have to fund it, how can you help me? as it's not just the back pack/trolley money it's the filter system aswell but not having a wfp is restricting me as alot of houses in my area have hard to reach windows.
I would try and blag some water off a wfp guy locally.
If you were local to me I would give you water for a month or two while you got the funds together to buy a ro. If you are starting out you are not going to need an excessive amount per week and your backpack and etel pole would set you back £200 ish.
Lee
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In my area. One guy painting his house came off and smashed both arms - airlifted away with bones poking out of his skin.
Another was a neighbour of one of my custys old chap smashed his ankles and nearly bled to death 'cos he's on that blood thinning drug.
His mrs had a go at him "I'll be alright I've been climbing ladders since I was fifteen years old!" he's well up in his seventies now and will not be able to walk for twelve weeks at least.
Got to get up my ladder in a mo to check someones gutter out, puts me off a bit.
YOU'VE DONE IT NOW DAVITH, JEEEEEEES, YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO TAKE THE BOLT OFF!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Blimy cat amongst the pidgeons and all that. ;D
Anyway I survived. However, it got me thinking and I can honestly say I know of more people who have fallen off ladders than have had car accidents! These are people I know and not statistics.
I know of one who fell from a step ladder and smashed all his teeth out.
Another who fell from a step ladder and broke his back
One who fell from a ladder when it slipped away, smashed all his teeth, his chin and no longer has any knee caps.
Another mate who fell and broke his wrist
Another who fell and broke his sternum
None of these were windies or professionals (although I know one windowcleaner who broke his arm).
Have a good think of how many you know. It's quite common.
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If you heard on the radio that someone has a car crash near you and 2people died would it put you off driving? If you use ladders for your job then you know where it is safe and not so safe to use them. If they were working at home the xchances are they had a cheap b&q bargain ladder and wernt careful where they were useing them. People just need to use common sence and look for potential dangers first.
Happy laddering
So how come so many "professionals" (not just windies) die or are badly injured every year?
Of course there are going to be injuries, there isnt anything in the world that is accident proof, but what are the stats for ladder related injuries, the percentage of diy related injuries is probably higher than the professional related injuries.
I dont know why people are so anti ladders. If everything that caused an injury got banned then there would be nothing left. Ladders are very useflu tools provided they are used correctly and not irresponsably.
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If you heard on the radio that someone has a car crash near you and 2people died would it put you off driving? If you use ladders for your job then you know where it is safe and not so safe to use them. If they were working at home the xchances are they had a cheap b&q bargain ladder and wernt careful where they were useing them. People just need to use common sence and look for potential dangers first.
Happy laddering
Yes but there is a much safer alternative for the job so why not take it,i will NEVER have that worry ever again
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Blimy cat amongst the pidgeons and all that. ;D
Anyway I survived. However, it got me thinking and I can honestly say I know of more people who have fallen off ladders than have had car accidents! These are people I know and not statistics.
I know of one who fell from a step ladder and smashed all his teeth out.
Another who fell from a step ladder and broke his back
One who fell from a ladder when it slipped away, smashed all his teeth, his chin and no longer has any knee caps.
Another mate who fell and broke his wrist
Another who fell and broke his sternum
None of these were windies or professionals (although I know one windowcleaner who broke his arm).
Have a good think of how many you know. It's quite common.
glad im not a mate of yours ;D
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its the same with ecstasy (which i use to use myself btw) i spose, theres a death every now and again, and its big news, but theres numerous deaths from alcohol abuse each day, but no one bats an eyelid?
i am thinking of getting rid of ladders all together though, once i get a gutter vac or gutter blower attachment. i dont fancy dieing from a ladder, after taking all those class a's, now that would be ironic?
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Dave, i admire you and your posts, but it doesnt matter to the ladder users, the have every excuse in the book, it wont happen to me, DIY ers, you cant paint windows with WFP, no you cant, its called getting a mobile tower, and abiding by law. But as I have said before, let them fall, let them shatter their lives, let them never work again, or be off work for many weeks, but cant afford WFP.
Wasting yours & my breath, as my grandad said, "they know everything, but they dont know enough"
There are thousands of window that can be cleaned with a pole, no not WFP either a broom shank or decorators pole for £15 and use a squegee & mop, does great job, abides by WAHR and is less risk to life & limb.
come on let the excuses start , it wont happen to me, I been cleaning windows for so many years, its cost too much.
Dave let them fall, and do us all a favour
seems a bit harsh, but sick of excuses, and sick of HSE for not enforcing law more, by giving warnings as a first breach, with more action if repeat offence
As I have said before spoke to JW with bad & dangerous methods, takes no notice, and his respect for life is a disgrace imo, he even uses his 15 year old granson with no employees liability up a ladder,
JW beleive life is cared, but some dont really beleive it
idealrob
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who says wfp is 100% safe? ::)
the possibilities to meet your demise are still there:
touch an electrical overhead wire with the pole and zapp your dead
trip over the hose and into the path of a bus and smash your dead
walk backwards to get the lower half of the windows and fall into the canal and splash your dead. (maybe 8))
and there are ways of killing others too with the thing, drop the pole on someones head and kaboom they are dead.
(yep i just watched one of the old batman shows ;D)
but thats the point.....its still safer than ladders in the RIGHT hands....untrained folk are just as a liability with the wfp as the guys on the ladders untrained.
who would you rather have work for you.....the untrained wfp guy or the fully trained ladder guy?
wfp is the way forward for any dangerous heights and angles, no doubt/no dispute, and most of my work is wfp due to that reason, however ladders still have a place in the workplace in my opinion.
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who says wfp is 100% safe? ::)
the possibilities to meet your demise are still there:
touch an electrical overhead wire with the pole and zapp your dead
trip over the hose and into the path of a bus and smash your dead
walk backwards to get the lower half of the windows and fall into the canal and splash your dead. (maybe 8))
and there are ways of killing others too with the thing, drop the pole on someones head and kaboom they are dead.
(yep i just watched one of the old batman shows ;D)
but thats the point.....its still safer than ladders in the RIGHT hands....untrained folk are just as a liability with the wfp as the guys on the ladders untrained.
who would you rather have work for you.....the untrained wfp guy or the fully trained ladder guy?
wfp is the way forward for any dangerous heights and angles, no doubt/no dispute, and most of my work is wfp due to that reason, however ladders still have a place in the workplace in my opinion.
Not saying and never will that WFP is the answer, it H & S, risk assesment, job method statments, thats what decides how safely we work. Thats why there are more ladder falls than being zapped by power cables, falling into a canal whilst WFP or WFP and jumping in front of a bus, please if I am wrong on statistics, give us the facts.
Ladders are great, as long a rick assesment, like wfp is done , if using a ladder have a ladder log and inspection method, is secured according to WAHR and is the correct ladder and not a domestic one etc. But just dreaming really, 99% dont bother with any of above.
We just got a large contract for Mars (Mars Bars Pension offices) been doing the work for 35 years on site for other contactor, but still had to prove competency,
idealrob
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Mrs was chatting today to the wife of the guy in the first post who smashed his arms. He's had them pinned and has an open wound on one. Apparently the damage is really bad.
Best bit though was he was painting his fascias ...................... he lives in a bungalow!
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Admire you dave, but wasting your breath, this lot dont beleive it will ever happen to them, or those that do beleive are too frightened to reply sensibly, or just say nothing and answer on stupid posts
idealrob
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Rob, I'm not having a go at anyone - just making conversation really. I use ladders now and again but try to avoid them if I can. I had a real fear of them three years ago but find myself up one once or trwice a week and often access garage roves too. I don't worry so much now, which might be a bad thing. Just amazed how many ladder accidents there are when the subject comes up.
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The whole ladders being compared to driving thing is annoying me.
If a car was invented where it was impossible to crash,.. it was easy to use and very affordable, even if it did require a little re-training,... after 10 years of its production how many ppl would still be driving those old fashioned "crashable" cars???
WFP isn't the be all and end all of window cleaning, but it removes a big risk. If you can remove a risk and don't simply because you're set in your ways or stubborn, then you really need to get your head checked!
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Hi guys, Hate to see that people have sustained injuries from ladder falls, it really does affect lives! but, and this is a big but? ladders are safe if used correctly! its as simple as that, if you want to avoid nasty accidents then try wfp, its up to you, dont blame a bit of aluminium if you slip trip or fall, its the fault of the operator everytime, get some training, stay safe.
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;D your right but alot of people will not agree with you on here ::)
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ladders are safe if used correctly! its as simple as that
True,.. but in the real world where you're climbing a ladder 100 times a day 5 days a week 48 weeks of the year can you really say that you use your ladder correctly on EVERY climb? Chances are at least once a week you will setup your ladder in an awkward spot, or simply no be paying enough attention.
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http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/heightreg.htm#do
found this on HSE website
idealrob
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http://www.lrbconsulting.co.uk/news_article_name/cleanerfalls.aspx
idealrob
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we had a window cleaner in wrexham come of a ladder last month - broke his back, he;s been up them 20 years.
its just a numbers game - YOU will fall of them one day ,, i have from gutter height , lucky i had a sloping porch to slide off !! -- and yes i still use them and wfp ..