Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: The Bear on August 05, 2005, 07:31:53 am
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Ok, this is going to be difficult for me...............my 2 year plan
.................WFP's are to be embraced................
.........ladder's will be fazed out in 2 years or less.........there said it now.
We live in very soft water area, and, will go WFP (sorry about previous comments to all WFP users)
Who uses DI only to purify water, we want to start as soon as poss, but have neither space of money for large set-up.
DI, pole, hose, pump, trolly. Does it work for anyone on here?
This has been a difficult post for me anti-WFP member since the start, see the New Bear :D
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Congrats welcome aboard me old hearty,your a little landlocked in Derbyshire, may have taken a little biit longer to sinkin,
Me ,myself,and I , living in Nottm carnt wait to ave a dig {can we} Bear you only live next county away,come and have a look at wfp,change one job to a sat morning if you want to have a look.
YOUVE GOT A WFP SUPPLIER IN CHESTERFIELD
Bear even living in a soft water area resin is an expensive way of doing it,3 years ago Tucker sold me a dud system by not telling me about alternative methods,so left with an expensive way of running wfp system.NOW I could tell them more than they know.
The attitude of the suppliers is different now because more peeps are clued up now [hope its because of this forum}
I would never buy a system from a supplier again ,diy for me.
IT SEEMED: get it wrapped ,get it packed ,strap it to your back, run like f... ,get it into bank account . NOW PEEPS CAN ASK MORE INDEPTH QUESTIONS, The reps, could have sold me an e type combine harvester or v 12 turboed 4 wheeled reliant robin with disc brakes.
THE bear :have a serious look at ro its a lot cheaper way of doing it.
ANOTHER LADDER USER BITES THE DUST
GAZA
just when Im returning back to the ladders for a while
HOW about this for canvassing success asked 8 peeps if they needed a w/c 8 new customers, away from were I lost all that work to a cheapskate w/c.
GAZA
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HI Bear,
Depending on your TDS reading, will depend on how much resin you go through in the DI bottle, this may work out expensive in the long run.
Have you thought about building your own trolley?
There is a trolley on Ebay at the moment made by omnipole, don’t know if it is any good though item number 4397703755
If you could budget 2k, Ionics do a brilliant trailer system, complete with RO unit and 1 or 2 poles (carnt remember), plus a days training at the BCWA, they can also arrange hp on their equipment.
Hope this helps, if you intend to build your own, let me know and I will advise you as best as I can
Andrew
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Glad i found this thread , i too am goin wfp and live in soft water area , i have been told i dont need RO just the resin system will do it he said.
I recall salesman sayin TDS in Plymouth is 70-90 PPM .
Now im thinkin is this true or does he want the resin sales ?
Dont know which way to go now, can i trust the salesman ?
Backpacks are not my thing , i want in van system , what are my options ?
Rich P @ F
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Thanks for the encouragement, it may take me a while to get it all together, 2k for trailer looks good but 1.9k out of my range just now.
I prob will build my own for now, likely that i'll just do up's for a while with WFP, down trad.
RO unit would be good, but space is at a premium, plus i'm not sure i want it working overnight!
I have made a purchase though.........TDS meter.
Small step, but it is forward, the biggest stumbling block is in your own head.
The lad I work with can't get over my sudden change, but I guess thats what i'm like.
Once I embrace something I dont let go.
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BEAR GUESS 180ISH READING FROM TAP? STILL QUITE HIGH FOR RESIN .
PLYMOUTH 80 S TDS OK BUT WOULD STILL GO RO IF NOT ON WATER METER
GAZA
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Hey Bear,
Its good to see window cleaners embracing new techniques, and you're absolutely right about the biggest barriers being in our head.
I remember my first day WFPing, ah happy days. As Gaza rightly says, it is easy to buy the wrong stuff. Had I known then what I know now!
As a starter system, (and as you live in a soft water area this would be ideal for you), I'd go for a HitchTank.
This is a 100 litre tank that fits onto the tow hitch of a car or van. (If you don't have a towbar, they only cost about £100 to fit)
You plug the poles directly into it, and work from it like that. It has a DI filter attached so you can re-fill it anywhere. If I were starting out again, this is what I'd get. I wouldn't bother with a van to begin with or even an RO unit.
(http://img120.i.us/img120/8720/hitchtank19mv.jpg)
I think it costs about £600, but you'd also need hoses and poles (about another £200)
I believe you can get finance on it though.
For me, I think this is terrific little starter system.
If you could budget 2k, Ionics do a brilliant trailer system, complete with RO unit and 1 or 2 poles (carnt remember), plus a days training at the BCWA, they can also arrange hp on their equipment.
I think that £2k price includes the RO unit and static tank, which you won't need as its a soft water area. So you could knock about £750 straight away.
-Philip
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Bear
I live by Alton Towers and have set my own system up.
You can come and have a chat or a look at the set up. Let me know
Rob
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Rob,
What TDS reading do you get there?
Bear
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Bear
like you once I decided to go WFP (about 3.5 years ago now) I wouldn't let go I went down the path of arranging finance ( lease buy system) my system cost about 2K to start with but this worked out at around £80 per month (including insurance's)= £20 per week = £4 per day (5 days) less than the price of half a house, plus I was working faster and earning even more a win win situation I've never looked back.
After three years (one and a half just ticking over quite happly) I've just bought a second van and equiped it and have plans for a third before Xmas.( abition gained from logging onto this forum)
My only comment about starting with something small would be that once you get used to the system you will very quickly grow out of it and have to buy additional bits to cope with your increased work load.
Like the others say building your own system would save £££'s and I'm sure every one hear would help you with every stage.
Alan
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Philip i guess thats a ionic system ?? ?? ??
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personally i would allways go with a small RO over a DI anyday
even at 80 TDS its still more then the 10- 20 a RO putts out, thus saving you money right from day 1
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Thanks for all the offers of help, I have a mate who has just bought a system in Buxton, so we plan a day with him soon.
It's a bit daunting, as I only know of one WC in Bakewell who has a pole system, so we will be breaking ground somewhat. (He uses a system plugged into the tap)
Our work is mostly villages so the system needs to be portable, i'm not convinced that working from a van is suitable for this.
One of the contracts we have, is in town, three storey, above shops. Trailing hose from a van seems a health hazzard for the copious amounts of tourists we get here.
I like the idea of a trolly, or even a trailer, but again, like Matt, I don't like the idea of hose over flowerbeds.
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Maybe a small RO unit in the shed.
I guess they need power and water and fill up overnight.
Do they automaticly stop when full or do you have a drain off.
Or do you RO during the day after you have filled the van?
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Maybe a small RO unit in the shed.
I guess they need power and water and fill up overnight.
Do they automaticly stop when full or do you have a drain off.
Or do you RO during the day after you have filled the van?
You have email M8. ;) 8)
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I am just putting my system together, My aluminium sack truck arrived from Machine Mart today. I live in a low TDS area 57 out of my tap but only 42 in the area that I do most of my work. I am going DI only to start with. My mate is DI only and gets a month out of his 8 ltr DI cylinder. I bought an aluminium box 12" square from a salvage yard along with some other alloy bits for a tenner. The box houses a Surflow 60PSI pump,
An 85 amp hour leisure battery and a variflow control unit. That lot cost £230. I bought 2 x11ltr DI vessels on e-bay for £50 the pair +£14 carriage.
A 33ft unger pole with a zink cranked joint for £105, A 10" Vykan brush from for£29, A flojet inline filter for £18 and a bag of resin £84, all from wintecs. The sack truck £50, say £50 max for hose and other bits. the total spend is about £630. I already have a small enclosed hose reel that I plan to mount on the truck. I am trying it with 30 metres of 8mm W-flex hose. [allready costed above] The auminium box is detatchable, so would operate a van system if needed in the future. If you start with the sacktruck and by the bits over a couple of months It doesn't hurt so much financially. Finally a big thanks to Matt for the inspiration. Dai
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Thanks Mick ;)
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Maybe a small RO unit in the shed.
yes, a 60 gall ro unit is ideal to start off with
I guess they need power and water and fill up overnight.
Nope, just a water supply, i.e a hosepipe in
Do they automaticly stop when full or do you have a drain off.
easy enough to do, i use a rain water butt and you can add a Overflow kit from B&Q (about 10 quid) this is the same as you will have in your cold water storage tank in your loft, it will shut the flow off when it reachs a level, personally i dont have that, i just draw off a few 25 L barrels a day
Or do you RO during the day after you have filled the van?
Ive replied in RED, check out the DIY site
http://d.co.uk
build your own for 550 quid, this includes a RO unit, it may be cheap, but its not nasty, it uses the same pump, same brush and the same pure water, jobs a good un
check out the forum for other idea's
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Finally a big thanks to Matt for the inspiration. Dai
thats Meeeeeee ;D ;D ;D
fame at last, i knew it wouldnt be long, can you nominate me for a award from the queen....... Matt CBE......has a ring to it dont you think ;D ;)
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oh and dai
you know where to post pics :)
will be nice to see
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Bear
350 ppm
Rob ;D
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Is this any good for a DI unit?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/resin-vessel-for-window-cleaning-8-17-inches_W0QQitemZ4397536469QQcategoryZ11702QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Or this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PURE-WATER-FED-POLE-WINDOW-CLEANING-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ5990948152QQcategoryZ20592QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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The Bear
I have designed a trolley system which should cover all cleans that a window cleaner will come across.
It should be able to do this faster and more efficent than other trolley systems on the market, at the moment I am road testing it, but I have found that I am doing 20% - 30% more houses than I use to in the same period of time.
The system is a di unit with a retail price of £1000 but this does include delivery and a full days training.
It should be ready for sale in around 3 weeks.
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:) Williamx
Have you got any pictures of the trolly that you could show us yet?
Thanks Brett
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I have to say this, as I am seeing some unbelievable sights on ebay of late.
I'm all for free enterprise, and I think its definately a great thing to see so many window cleaners taking up WFP and getting systems. But some of those which are being offered for sale are, to be totally honest an insult to window cleaners.
Take, for example, this system for sale on ebay:
(http://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/65/38/88_12_sb.JPG)
What we have here is
a collabsible sack truck from Machine Mart (£30)
a few 25litre cannisters (about £10 each)
an RO unit intended for use for fish keeping (about £200)
A 360 Litre water butt (about £30 from B&Q)
A battery and charger costing about £30
A couple of pumps costing about £100
and some bits of hose
This "system" (and to call it a 'system' really is stretching the definition of the word) is being sold for £949. I'm sorry, but I really do think that is absolutely ridiculous.
Matt's DIY site has shown us very well that if this is the sort of thing you want to get you started, then getting these simple items together yourself is not that difficult.
Come on, I think that this a bandwagon that is well and truly out of control. Whoever cobbles this stuff together and calls it a "system" for almost a thousand quid is surely, having a laugh. (And at our expense)
Sorry, but I think that to sell stuff like this is simply a joke.
-Philip
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I appreciate your advice Phillip, I agree with you, if you want to start basic, there seems little point buying a "system" as pictured below. With the advice on this site and Matt's, it seems reasonably straight forward to get something together DIY.
Sadly, I don't have the finances to buy retail, so DIY looks my quickest option, to get started.
Before I started my own business, I was working in a bakery for what then would have been minimum wage.
I realised if I was ever going to be able to support a family, I needed to do something else.
When I started window cleaning, I had a ladder, bucket, applicator, squeege and 4 scrim. And 8 houses to clean.
Back then I didn't have the finances to buy a ready made round, I had to build it up from scratch, as many others here did.
The equipment I had was suffficient to do the job, and, as time went by, my equipment and proffesionalism increased.
I think I am now at the same junction in life, I need to move forward, but can't afford to buy a ready made "labled " system.
Starting basic is my only option. Who knows what will happen in the future, but for now, I know my limitations.
QUESTION ??????????
What on the system below, or on Matt's advice, needs improvement??
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How to you put pictures on this site
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When you write your message, go to Additional Options, click browse and find th picture you wont to upload.
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Many thanks the pictures will be displayed soon
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QUESTION ??????????
What on the system below, or on Matt's advice, needs improvement??
personally i say nothing, as its been tweaked and tweaked by others, i wasnt the first to go DIY, a few others did it B4 me, i remmber when i was looking into it, i must have bored Jeff B and Philip to tears with the constant questions, in the end i worked out what was wanted and away i went
the only thing on the system on the DIY site that is Below par (when i say Below par its the quanity of water, just 60 Gall's of water a day) this works great for me, others fidn they need a little more, dont ask me why ?? ?? ? ?? so if you have extra money, get a 100 Gall unit
thats it really, same pump, same pure water, same brush head
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I guess what Phillip is saying is, if tthis is what you want, sorce it yourself.
By the way, I think Tosh may be thinking of batting for the other side as well.
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Hi, I brought my WFP from a chap on ebay....Very impressed, this is only a DI unit but because of the soft water it seems to be ok.
If you want his details I can give you an email address...He is very good...But then you can build one yourself im just not that clever...
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Matt's DIY site has shown us very well that if this is the sort of thing you want to get you started, then getting these simple items together yourself is not that difficult.
why thank you philip, though i do blame you and Jeff ;D ;D
i just did the site as people were posting the same questions that i did a year ago, then other have, so why not have them all in 1 place with a simple guide, as you know, some havent been happy with it, but thats life
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Heh yes we've all been there! I remember when I was constructing my own backpack system, me and matt exchanged a good few ideas.
Speaking from my own experience, there wasn't a system available that fit my needs at the time (a backpack), so I built one myself. Now, however, there are systems that you can buy that are cheaper and more pro-looking than my constructed one, and if I was doing it now I'd just buy one.
(http://www.shurflo.com/pages/new_industrial/Industrial/gen_industrial/genind_img_sum/Propack6b.jpg)
The problem as I see it, is that there are a number of "systems" for sale which are, lets face it, cobbled together bits of 'junk' that nobody should ever buy, like that one I put the picture of above. The only reason people actually do buy them is because there is sometimes a lack of knowledge amongst window cleaners.
Having said that, there are some great little residential systems around, and one of them is the Omnitrolley. The only problem is that 50 litres is a bit on the heavy side to be lifting in and out of the van, but of course you don't have to fill it right up.
Water consumption is a tricky area, and most manufacturers take the view that you need about 1.5 litres a minute flowing through the brush. In my humble opinion, the jets that I have seen fitted to brushes let FAR to much water through (usually in thin squirts). The best way (as explained to me by Jeff Brimble) is to use spray jets that allow a really good flow of water over the glass, but only use abou 0.75 litres per minute. When I have lent my modified poles out to other people, they can't believe how good they are and how much less water is needed.
Doing this greatly reduces the size of the system you need, and I believe that for 1 person for 1 day, 150 litres is more than enough. If you can put something together yourself and make it look pro, then more power to you! its a good way to start off, and eventually when you're ready to buy a manufactured system you'll have a much better idea of what you need.
A word of caustion though, I recently met a window cleaner who had installed a 400 litre tank into his van, up against the bulkhead. Now the bulkhead had dented inward in the shape of the tank, and that was just from the normal braking action. I dread to think what would happen in the case of a shunt. My advice in this area, and I genuinely mean this with window cleaners interests at heart, is if you are going to install a tank yourself, put it into a trailer, rather than in the back of your van. Its only a matter of time before somebody is squashed to death or badly injured by this type of accident, and even after all the debate and contraversy, the manufacturers (even otherwise reputable ones) are just not taking this seriously. I have seen some installations by well regarded manufacturers that have practically no integrity at all, and would break free even from a 10mph shunt.
All in all, I think that everyday window cleaners are fast waking up to the benefits of water fed pole, and thats a really great thing. It doesn't cost that much to get a system of some kind, and really, with the increased speed of working, there's no reason not to in my opinion!
-Philip
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Hi The bear,
don't know if this is of any use to you but I live in the Cannock area, and would be more than happy to help you put together a system, I recon that you could buy the bits for a less than £900 ( all from well established suppliers (with Guarantees ) too many sharks on e-bay these days, (my fee £0.00)
www.thewindowcleaner.biz (http://www.thewindowcleaner.biz)
Alan
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I'm selling the idea to my wife and to my work partner, the wife at first didn't think it a good idea, but is comming round. "if your going to do it, do it properly, no Heath Robinson stuff".
Work partner needs to see it in action, but is getting excited about being able to justify buying a Twin Cab pick up.
i told him if he buys the Twin cab, i'll buy the pole system.
I await his comments