Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: pdhanson on December 16, 2003, 06:58:31 pm
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Can anyone suggest which are the best poles to use?
I used one for the first time yesterday, and found it really difficult. The ones I used were 5 section, 2 metre aluminium.
I found them heavy and difficult to extend. What is the best way to do it? Smaller sections?
The locking collars kept jamming too, and killed my wrists trying to undo them.
Thanks
Silly
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i had one of them they are a killer carbon fibre are better much lighter and quick release mecks on them
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Hi silly philly
what one did you try today
Cheers
Alan
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It was the Unger "Teleplus" aluminium, 5 sections of 2m aluminium. Heavy, and the collars are a beggar to undo.
And high off the ground so had to stand on my ladders to extend the thing.
Paul, what is the correct way to extend them? I ended up "walking" it up the wall, but the brush head got dirty doing this, and it nearly fell a couple of times. It was only up about 30 feet. Where did you get your carbon pole from, and how much was it?(if you dont mind me asking)
As it was an office building over a busy street, there was no room to extend it on the ground then "tilt" it up. It was a real beggar!
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Silly Philly
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Could you not make it your first job of the day before the crowds arive. ???I walk my pole as well , I put it at the bottom of the wall and then push it up , I think the tucker site had a diagram of how to extend it . 8)
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I use the Unger Teleplus system in 2m sections, what I do is stand on my pointer about half a metre up (so that I'm inline with the collars or slightly above) and extend each section one at a time with the pole held vertically. I don't use the top (thinest) section if I can help it as there's too much flex and I don't touch the building on the way up unless I really have to.
I hope that this helps. :)
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Can anyone suggest which are the best poles to use?
I used one for the first time yesterday, and found it really difficult. The ones I used were 5 section, 2 metre aluminium.
I found them heavy and difficult to extend. What is the best way to do it? Smaller sections?
The locking collars kept jamming too, and killed my wrists trying to undo them.
Thanks
Silly
What you want to do is start off with some second storey work until you get used to using the pole. Most people want to start with their highest most awkward work and expect it to be easy, it dosnt matter which pole you use the higher you go the more awkward it is.
As far as undoing the collars go, you are tightening them up too much, all it needs is a little nip up, the more you tighten them the quicker they will wear out, and the harder they are to undo.
The Tele-pole at 30 feet should be able to be lifted straight from the ground by holding near the bottom of the thickest section, again it may need a little practice, but it can be done easily.
You want to avoid poles with smaller sections, as there is more sections to adjust to get to the desired height.
Peter Fogwill
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You should try Ionic's new Ergo-lite carbon fibre waterfed poles. They are the lightest most rigid poles on the market, very easy to use and because they are so light a 60ft pole is just as easy to use as a 30ft pole of heavier construction. While a 30ft Ergo-lite feels like nothing at all.
Tom
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Thank you all for your help.
Majestic: Unfortunately it is a very busy road, and in order to get there when empty I'd need to be there at 4am! The tucker brochure shows a man extending it on the ground then tilting it up. Thats fine if there's a nice big empty car park at the building front!
Fez : Yes it does rather bend like Rolf Harris's flex board! However, I cant get to the height without it, so I end up looking like a circus performer!
Peter Fogwill : Yes, this is my most awkward job! I havent tried it on normal 2 storey work yet. But as soon as I can afford a Water Purifier I will. I agree about smaller section poles, you'd spend all day faffing about to get the right height. Thanks for your tips.
Polepro: I got a brochure for Ionic, I couldnt see where to get the poles on their own, only packages costing thousands. How much do they go for?
Dom Matrix (?!): I couldnt find a website for brodex, do you know the www? (www.brodex.co.uk doesnt work)
Are there any poles that extend with a winder handle or similar? that would be handy
Thanks for your help
Silly
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Silly,
Ionic do sell their poles separately, not in packages at all. I checked their pricelist the cheapest 40ft residential pole costs £189.95 and their most expensive 45ft Ergo-lite pole costs £894.95.
Dom,
The standard 45ft carbon fibre pole like the one brodex sells weighs 8.85kg while the 45ft Ergo-lite pole weighs just 6kg. Thats nearly 3kg lighter, I have both and I can tell you that the Ergo-lite feels much ligther, is easier to use and bends less than the original 45ft carbon fibre pole and its easier to extend because the sections are just 6ft long instead of 8ft long. The shorter sections also make them easier to store in the van. The safety clips you speak of are in fact just guides to take up the slack in the standard poles, when you extend an ergo-lite pole if you see the red section then there is still 10 inches of pole to go before it will come out. Anyway the fact that you can take the sections apart easily is great, just like a Tucker pole I can remove sections to make the pole even ligther and easier to use when working at lower levels.
Tom
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Interesting comments regarding the Ergo-lite pole over a standard Universal Carbon pole. On demonstrations of our Reach & Wash Systems we show Glass fibre, Carbon fibre and the Ergo-lite. For 30ft and higher over 80 % of customers purchase the Ergo-lite for ease of use and feel the benefits of a lighter pole. You can easily use an Ergo-lite pole to access awkward angles reducing the risk of repetitive strain and able to use on lower levels.
Dom matrix otherwise known as Brodex, i doubt you have ever used an Ergo-lite pole and as you do not sell a pole to this standard i guess you are little biased. ;)
Regards
Reuben
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Hi Reuben,
Having recently purchased my first Ergo-Lite pole I would firstly congratulate you on producing an excellent product which is much lighter and easy to use than my standard carbon and fibre glass poles. However I have some negative feedback that I would appreciate answers on:
1. Considering the extra cost of these poles I was disappointed to find they came with the inferior plastic hosing as opposed to the much higher quality black hose as used on all your other poles, which was one of the main reasons I always bought your poles. I appreciate it is probably lighter but in my opinion not enough to justify the drop in quality(note you have since sent me some black hose to replace this thanks) any comments?
2. Whilst I have no problem with the idea of the red paint acting as a stop guide as you would have to be very stupid to keep raising it past this for it to cause any problems(unless your colour blind eh Dom ;D), but what I do have a problem with is the fact that after only five uses of the Ergo-Lite pole the red warning paint is already wearing off so pretty soon this will be a problem as is obvious, again on such an expensive product I expected better ???
3. Finally the new brass hose connector is far too small and it needs a knurled finish for gripping your cold little fingers on when pulling apart
So sorry to moan but overall I am impressed I just feel an expensive quality product is let down by a few minor details which should not be too much trouble to correct, I look forward to your reply.
Merry Christmas to one & all on this forum
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REUBAN
Easy tiger...! If I was BRODEX I'd probably be a lot better off...! You said 80% of people buy ergolite poles over 30ft, which means to make that claim you know how many poles are sold by all of your competitors every day in the U.K..! interesting, can I borrow your crystal ball sometime, happy xmas x
DOM
Dom,
You're playing games, you are so pro Brodex that I checked your forum profile. Your user name is Sean Rimmer, you work for brodex as their salesman. Others have worked you out too yet you continue to pretend to be a window cleaner.
What I said was that 80% of the customers that I demo the poles too choose the Ergo-lite poles. If you do have an Ergo-lite pole and you have weighed it you will find that our weight claims are true, Ergo-lite poles are 30% lighter than the standard UNIVERSAL carbon fibre poles that you sell. Jim from Exel will confirm that the Unversal pole that you sell is a pole that was originally designed for military use to hold up camoflage nets. It has been used successfully for a wide range of applications. Our Ergo-lite pole however was designed specifically by our in-house designer to be a waterfed pole specially for window cleaning not as a fishing rod.
As you well know the HSE has compiled a report on the use of waterfed poles and they have made suggestions to the industry about the need to reduce the weight of waterfed poles in order to reduce the risk of back and repetitive strain injuries. Ionic Systems has been pro-active and produced a light weight pole in order to comply with these recommendations.
Long term members of this forum know that I have only used the forum to offer advice and to answer direct questions. In the 2 days since you signed on you have done little exept slag others off with a better than thou attitude while using every opportunity to promote your company, all while denying to represent brodex.
I am sure that the group would welcome any positive posts you may make. But when you tell so many lies it makes it difficult for anyone to believe anything you have to say.
Happy New Year
regards
Reuben
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Hi Reuben,
Whilst I appreciated reading your reply to Dom`s posts and would agree with both points of view and the fact that we should stand up and be counted and honest as to who we are representing I also note that you say you answer direct questions, I thought my questions above were very direct and fair so I am still eagerly awaiting for your answers ???
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Gary,
Thank-you for your posting about the Ergo-lite pole, and of course I'm happy to answer your questions.
1) When producing this pole our goal was to reduce weight were ever possible. Although tough, the black hose adds 1kg on a 45ft pole so we opted for the lighter clear tubing in the short term. As you said we happily gave you the heavier black bose when you asked for it. In the mean time we have been working with an Italian company to develop a tough black hose that fullfils all our requirements including toughness and weight. I'm pleased to say that I have it in my demo poles and its great. From early in the New Year all of our poles will come with the new hose. It costs us a little more but the quality is worth it.
2) I take on board what you say about the need for knurling on the brass hose fitting and you can expect that to be a feature on our poles next year too.
3) The red two-pack paint that we currently use is also due to be replaced with a red resin which should resist wearing better.
Over all you had positive comments and I thank you.
regards
Reuben
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Reuben,
Thanks for your reply when the new paint is available could you send me some assuming it can be applied by hand? Also with regards to the knurling that is good news I would also suggest the shoulder is around 5-10mm wider as this allows a good grip for your thumb & forefinger.
Regards
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Dom,
You're playing games, you are so pro Brodex that I checked your forum profile. Your user name is Sean Rimmer, you work for brodex as their salesman. Others have worked you out too yet you continue to pretend to be a window cleaner.
Dom, if this is the case please change your user name to reflect the fact that you work for Brodex - posting in the way you have does not reflect very well on Brodex at all >:(
Perhaps you will take on board that this is a professional forum and, if you wish to contribute for the benefit of others, you should register legitimately as Reuben and Peter both have - this forum is not here so you can knock your competitors.
I'm sure other members will draw their own conclusions!
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Gary,
I was working on the first reply when you sent your last post.
The new red resin is a 2-pack also but tougher, it still needs to be sprayed because a thin film is required.
Next batch of brass hose fittings will be bigger diameter as you suggest, and knurled.
regards
Reuben
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Reuben,
It is not the diametre thats the problem it is the width of the shoulder to be able to get a firm grip it needs to be wider so this together with a knurled finish should make the job a lot easier to perform when you have a stiff connection and your hands are wet and cold
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Gary,
I'm with you now, I'll talk to Craig about it.
regards
Reuben
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Gary,
I forgot to say, once we have the red resin thing sorted we'll be happy to re-spray your Ergo-lite poles FOC. If you have'nt heard from us by end of Feb please contact Lindsey in customer services and give us a reminder.
regards
Reuben
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Thanks for the note re respraying, and look forward to hearing from you in due course in the meantime hope you enjoy a few beers over xmas I will
Regards
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http://http://www.exelindustry.net/toolhandlesandtelescopes/index.php?sivu=products-exeluniversaltelescopicpole
for all you pure water window cleaners info on glass and carbon poles
Andy
dorset
fed member
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pole man
Do exel sell to the end user or do you have to buy a shed load of poles before they deal with you.
I went to OTT Ionic once they had crates of pole tubes it would fill my garage about 10 times over.
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This reply has been moved from another unrelated topic heading
ADMIN & ALL USERS
may I take this opportunity to apologise for any offence I may have caused any of your members with the term "cowboys". I was attempting to highlight the dangers to your members of unsecured, heavy loads being transported on a daily basis in the u.k. We routinely receive visitors who have bought 1000Litre or 650 Litre IBC containers (Intermediate Bulk Containers-generally the opaque-white plastic cubes) off 1 man operators and have them unsecure or inadequately secured in the rear of vans, usually with no bulkheads in situ.
We warn people of the dangers and to my knowledge, it is only the limited companies who manufacture these systems, who have developed their bespoke equipment with safety in mind.
I was in no way infering that a lack of "Ltd" tag means you are a cowboy operator, I was refering to the opportunist suppliers who market equipment that looks the part, but is in fact wholly unsafe for the desired application.
I feel confident that OTT, OMNIPOLE & TUCKERPOLE will concurr with that sentiment, indeed we all met recently at the NFMWGC to discuss these exact same safety issues and under the NFMWGC's wing, will be producing safety guidelines in co-operation with the Health & Safety Executive.
Sean Rimmer
UK Sales Manager
Brodex Ltd.(aka. Brodex Machine Services-BMS HIGHFLOW)
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This reply has been moved from another unrelated topic heading
Sean,
I read with interest;
I was in no way infering that a lack of "Ltd" tag means you are a cowboy operator, I was refering to the opportunist suppliers who market equipment that looks the part, but is in fact wholly unsafe for the desired application.
Tell us how does a "LTD" company prove that their equipment is any safer than one of these opportunistic suppliers that you refer to?
This was one of the unresolved questions at the NFMWGC meeting when Craig Mawlam asked: "If not by crash testing, what other mechanism should be used by manufacturers to prove that their equipment conforms to the requirements of the Road Traffic Act 1986 and Construction and Use Regulation 100"?
regards
Reuben Reynolds
Sales Director
www.ionicsystems.com
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yes please :D nice to see company wars this site should be renamed cleanitup close (new soap opera)
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Sean,
If you bring up a subject on this site then you must expect to be challenged when what you say is not true nor accurate. I applaud Peter Fogwells response to things that you have said and he is right in his reply. Peter and I have co-existed on this site for months without argument as we both respect each others position in the market. Respect is something that you show little regard for and it begs the question whether you respect your customers any better than your competitors, and I refer to their safety!
I asked you a question in response to something that you have written here, and I await your reply.
regards
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Ooooooer!!
Guys, guys, remember it's nearly Christmas - the season of goodwill to all men (and sales reps)!
The best way to sort this out like gentlemen is pistols at dawn!! ;)
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Sean,
I asked you a question nothing personal, Peter Fogwell has asked the same question too, if you don't wish to answer mine answer his.
regards
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Fez,
You're right its Christmas so its truce time.
Sean,
You placed a good informative and wise post about the use of acids for regen of resin, respect when its due.
I have no problem answering any question asked of me, I ask the same of you. This is how the forum learns about the industry.
Merry Xmas
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Well I'm glad a truce has been called!
but chappies, now i'm dying to know! IS pure20 owned by ionics or not??
Silly
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Is this the point at which Reuben offers a bottle to the first person to guess which competitors system they crash tested?
Sean / Reuben
You have both been advised to keep these discussions professional and we've deleted posts to avoid further confrontation. However, if you wish to continue then you do so at your own risk!
Forum Admin
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hi silly - i posted a comment on dec 3rd and questioned whether pure2o was a puppy (or should that have been puppet) of ott/ionics. will we ever know? get miss marple on the case.
complaints of the season to everyone - terry
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Regarding Pure 2 0 Ltd
In the same way that the Ford Motor Corporation own Land Rover, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin amongst many others. The Directors of Ionic Systems Ltd own four other companies in the UK, like Ford each of its companies offer different products or services. Take Richard Branson for example, he owns many businesses around the World and he is well respected in business, his success is an example for us all, starting as he did with one mail order record shop, a one man business, not ltd.
Over the years Ionic's Reach & Wash system has benefited from constant re-investment and quality lead improvements, so much so that a gap appeared between the price of a Reach & Wash system that represents Rolls-Royce quality and other systems on the market.
The Directors wanted to offer all window cleaners regardless of their budget the opportunity to own safe, crash tested equipment. The only way that this could be achieved was to establish Pure 2 O Ltd to offer a safe, crash tested product that features the same quality of components fitted on other machines in the market place with the same level of back-up.
Like Ford owned companies, their cars all get you from A to B, each one does it in a different way and at a different price, but at least they all do it safely!
The directors of all ltd companies are listed at Companies house, its quite transparant. If a company wished to hide something about its self, it would never incorporate.
What this means for customers is that they can buy from Pure 2 O with confidence knowing that it is backed by the industry leader.
May I take this opportunity to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
Let us know if anyone recieves Sean's bottle of Whiskey tomorrow!
Regards
Reuben
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Regarding Poles:
Sean is almost correct in what he has said except:
1) Ionic Systems is the only authorised assembler of Exel Universal poles in the UK. What this means is that we import the raw materials, cut the tubes to size and assemble them to our own specification. The unique benefit of our Universal pole is that the overlap in the sections has been fine tuned to ensure that our poles bend the least. Also because we assemble the poles ourselves we are able to offer the widest range of sizes, as Sean says the best pole will be the one that adequately reaches the window rather than a one size fits all approach. All other importers of Exel poles buy them in ready assembled.
2) The Ergo-lite pole that we produce is unique to Ionic Systems, the tubes are made by exel to our specification and are not available to anyone else. The principle benefit of these poles is that they are 30% lighter than the Universal poles. They are also made from eight sections instead of six, this means that they are easier to extend vertically and take up less pace in the van. The handle section is just 50mm instead of almost 60mm on the Universal poles which makes them easier to grip.
Last year a report was commissioned by the HSE regarding the effects of waterfed poles on the human body. The new Ergo-lite pole represents our proactive response to resolving the issues raised regarding weight, and grip problems that may lead to repetitive strain or back injuries.
Its not just the tubes that are unique to Ionic, £160k was invested by Ionic in the design and tooling for the new clamps and other weight saving plastic parts. The Ergo-lite pole is the first waterfed pole since the Tucker pole to have been designed specifically for high-level window cleaning.
In the new year Ergo-lite poles will be available in Glass fibre as well as carbon fibre. Though only reaching to 35ft the glass fibre Ergo-lite will be very cost competitve and 35% lighter that the Univeral Glass Fibre Poles.
regards
Reuben
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Others asked about Pure 2 0 LTD and I did promise to answer any questions.
regards
Reuben
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Sean,
Your post about poles was not strictly accurate, I just added my comment because your post suggested that all composite poles were the same except for the fittings. Not true.
regards
Reuben
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PURE2O
Thank you Reuban for your forthright answer. I don't think we should knock ionic for setting up a seperate company to serve the lower end of the market. This is standard practice in most industries.
As long as it doesnt mean Ionic is using its size to force competitors out of the market. This would be anti-competitve, and the consumer would lose out.
Silly
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Numerous replies and not one mention of winspray which is taking America by storm...Contact me in your email not private message forum .I never really check that...I will have info for you...
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I've heard of winspray, the belt thing is apparently v comfortable,
but the "winspray gun" seems to be a bit of an oddity. I dont quite get it. It seems to be intended for pole use (with the brushes) but winspray doesnt seem to supply a resin or RO system?
Also, the tools look like they could slip off the little bar of the gun, as it is just a "push-fit" arrangement.
Maybe its meant only for cleaning signs
Silly
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Hi Silly,
I seem to remember that i saw a ro unit that winspray made (Maybe their website) Or maybe i am just loosing my marbles ::) :-[ :'(
Steve
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Hi Silly,
I seem to remember that i saw a ro unit that winspray made (Maybe their website) Or maybe i am just loosing my marbles ::) :-[ :'(
Steve
Steve, the Winspray PDIS is DI not RO, it consists of a couple of pre filters then DI.
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
I wasnt to sure what i saw or where i saw it but i thought i had seen something somewhere :-[
Steve
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Numerous replies and not one mention of winspray which is taking America by storm...Contact me in your email not private message forum .I never really check that...I will have info for you...
The Winspray will be quite popular in the USA as they are more into home made set ups over there, they mostly use DI tanks to purify their water, and the brush on the Winspray is fed by the pressure from a nearby tap. They have far more outside taps than we have here so one is never far away. It seems to me that much of the USA also enjoys softer water than most of the UK, so DI is quite cost effective.
I honestly don't think it will make it over here.
Peter
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different subject,if you have a pole system installed in your van do you have to inform dvla and your insurance company.ifso what requirements are needed
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Not so far, the only thing you are bound by at present is "Code of Practice for the Safety of Loads on Vehicles", (3rd Edition) Available from the Stationery Office (previously HMSO ISBN0115525475 Priced at £10.50), which contains details of current legislation and advice.
If Crash Testing does become the means to measure Van Mounted WFP machines by, then Insurance Companies will have some sort of requirement in the future, some are certainly aware of Crash Testing at the moment.
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Dom,
Darwin Clayton certainly are, I also have my system insured with them. I have heard of one other through the grape-vine, I have a feeling it was Eagle Star but I may be mistaken.
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Hi Dom
Can you give us a web address for Brodex please ???
Steve
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Steve
They have a full page add in the fed mag , but its
www.brodexbms.co.uk 8)
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Thanks John and Dom,
I will go and take a look ;)
Steve
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We've come a long way since this was first posted. Its funny how things change isnt it!!
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It is interesting, thanks for that. And still some of the same questions floating around remaining unanswered.