Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul-J on March 29, 2010, 10:02:13 pm
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After 6 years as a trad window cleaner I've reluctantly called it a day!
I've found over the last few years the amount of window cleaners in the area has majorly increased, trad and WFP. I've gradually been losing customers to the WFP guys which encouraged me to invest in my business and take the plunge and get myself a system. However before I bought the system I thought I'd do a little market research and find out just how much compition there is.
What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
So that's pretty much it for me, far to much compition out there to warrant investing £££ and and losing to many customers to continue on as a trad.
Another one bites the dust
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sorry 2 hear that m8 :( no chance u could build it up again? may b worth a try :-\
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have u lost a lot to wfp,
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If it really is the end,why not sell your round off to one of your rivals,after 6 years you must have a fair few customers?
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sorry to hear that paul,if there is no pursuading you to stay on then i would be interested in taking your remaing customers off your hands for a decent price
Cheers
trippy
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I suppose I could sell off my round but I really don't think I would get much for it.
I was speaking to one on my customers on Friday and she was telling me about how many leaflets and people banging on her door since christmas is just stupid!
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how an earth are you losing custys?you must be crap then!ive NEVER lost a custy to another newbie starting up in 16 years of trad cleaning.ive had guys canvass parts of my round twice this year and never lost one!!
1.you must do a crap job and be unreliable AND/OR
2.your way too expensive!
there is always competition everywhere in all businesses.most WCs are pretty crap round here so i always pick up new work.
i enjoy wc and no way am i giving up!in fact quite the opposite!change your attitude matey and get more professional in your business and itll start growing again!
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chopsie he said hes lost them all! ::)
sorry to hear that mate, hope you fair better soon
same down here i see a few newbies every month, we'll be working for peanuts b4 long
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Paul im still building up my round, im in Bristol mate, heres my mobile number, im sure we can work something out as regards money
07887691058
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Paul
Don't be so defeatist, there is loads you can do to gain new work, there is tons of work in Bristol, you just have to go about a strategy to find it
Dont just count the wfp guys, how many are still trad ? probably not as many as you think, a 3 sq mile in Bristol is huge.
Dave
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chopsie he said hes lost them all! ::)
sorry to hear that mate, hope you fair better soon
same down here i see a few newbies every month, we'll be working for peanuts b4 long
Think you need to brush up on your reading skills mate.He said he has been gradually losing customers to wfp.NOT that he has lost all his customers ::) ::)
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my custys just put the leaflets in the bin!why would a custy jump ship paul if your doing a good job at a fair price? ::) ::)
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Lol thanks daz! I've never had a single complaint about my work in the whole 6 years I've been doing this. I'm losing customers because of cleaver marketing, nice shiney leaflets and vans filled with flashy expensive looking equipment. I'm not saying I've lost all my customers but I've lost enough to notice
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how many did you have and how many have you lost?
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What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
29 window cleaners in my area Chester / Wirral / North Wales ... ive picked up 4 customers with under 2 hours of door knocking .... loads of oppertunity ... my area no where as near populated as Bristol .. keep going mate !!!
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Lol thanks daz! I've never had a single complaint about my work in the whole 6 years I've been doing this. I'm losing customers because of cleaver marketing, nice shiney leaflets and vans filled with flashy expensive looking equipment. I'm not saying I've lost all my customers but I've lost enough to notice
Why not compete instead of giving up? I drew a line in the sand at 260 customers sep 08 when the credit crunch was in full swing. I said that if I slipped 1 customer below 260 I would go out that very night and knock until I had 260 again. I now have 350.
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What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
29 window cleaners in my area Chester / Wirral / North Wales ... ive picked up 4 customers with under 2 hours of door knocking .... loads of oppertunity ... my area no where as near populated as Bristol .. keep going mate !!!
is that all the 'legit' ones then ian? loads of people probably not registered as well !
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Lol thanks daz! I've never had a single complaint about my work in the whole 6 years I've been doing this. I'm losing customers because of cleaver marketing, nice shiney leaflets and vans filled with flashy expensive looking equipment. I'm not saying I've lost all my customers but I've lost enough to notice
Why not compete instead of giving up? I drew a line in the sand at 260 customers sep 08 when the credit crunch was in full swing. I said that if I slipped 1 customer below 260 I would go out that very night and knock until I had 260 again. I now have 350.
now thats just being greedy ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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custys are not interested in shiny new vans etc.they just want clean windows at a fair price!at least they are like that where i work!i have been doing a lot of them for years though!
ok say you lost 10 custys.its hardly the end of the world!get out and leaflet and canvass in different areas!!
i cant stand defeatists!maybe you ve not got the interest to turn your business around?
ok if its not for you anymore sell it!but what are you gonna do instead?
regards
dazmond
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Flashy leaflets and shiny vans dont get you the work, it is you that does that, Hold your head up, believe in yourelf and go and get them
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as dave says, if anything all that could put people off as customers think they will charge the earth, attitude and a good service is paramount in our game
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custys are not interested in shiny new vans etc.they just want clean windows at a fair price!at least they are like that where i work!i have been doing a lot of them for years though!
ok say you lost 10 custys.its hardly the end of the world!get out and leaflet and canvass in different areas!!
i cant stand defeatists!maybe you ve not got the interest to turn your business around?
ok if its not for you anymore sell it!but what are you gonna do instead?
regards
dazmond
That's it Daz, you tell 'im....
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Paul J, dont throw the towel in just yet fella :( there is plenty of work out there 4 every1 ;D
if ur good at wot u do u will get through this ;D just keep going m8.
all the best ;)
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yeah dont throw in the towel .
whenever i think its getting tuff in my working life i start thinking of lithuania
i once had a lithu g/f and been over to lithuania myself and you think lifes tough here , lifes a doddle here compared to that place. saw a train that used to ship locals to Siberia
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Paul J, dont throw the towel in just yet fella :( there is plenty of work out there 4 every1 ;D
if ur good at wot u do u will get through this ;D just keep going m8.
all the best ;)
There's more customers than all the window cleaners can cope with. thats a fact Paul.
just need a little motivation, I have lost customers in the past and yes it gets dis-heartening, but dust yourself down fella and move on to getting more customers.
You will get them.
Matt
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sorry 2 hear that m8 :( no chance u could build it up again? may b worth a try :-\
i live in a small town population 25000.there is at least 25 windows working area and im still picking up work . stop moaning and get on with it plenty of work out there if u look for it.
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Paul-J, If I started losing customers, I would be asking myself why. Do I do a thorough, high quality job, that my customers are happy with? Am I reliable? Am I charging a fair price for my services? Does my attitude reflect a professional approach to my work? Do I give my customers the personal touch? Am I polite and
have a good rapport with my customers? Do I take the time to have a chat (if only briefly) with them if they have the need or am I too busy to give them any time?
Ask yourself these questions and be honest with yourself about them. If you can answer 'yes' to all these, you really shouldn't be losing any customers unless they have a genuine reason for having to let you go. If the answer to any are 'no', then you have identified an issue which may require some adjustment. You can still save your business and even improve it beyond what it was before with a little forethought and a few (minor) changes. Don't give up, keep going.
Best wishes,
John.
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Paul yourself together man!! ;D
If you are only losing work to wfp operators and not trad, then the only reason can be that you don't / can't clean all the windows. Above conny roofs etc.
Don't you like the job anymore or is it just the time of the month? :D
Get yourself a backpack, small ro and 25ft pole and reinvent yourself. Every window above the conservatory is worth an extra pound.
Offer gutter and fascia cleaning. Open up your options.
Paul-J, If I started losing customers, I would be asking myself why. Do I do a thorough, high quality job, that my customers are happy with? Am I reliable? Am I charging a fair price for my services? Does my attitude reflect a professional approach to my work? Do I give my customers the personal touch? Am I polite and
have a good rapport with my customers? Do I take the time to have a chat (if only briefly) with them if they have the need or am I too busy to give them any time?
Ask yourself these questions and be honest with yourself about them. If you can answer 'yes' to all these, you really shouldn't be losing any customers unless they have a genuine reason for having to let you go. If the answer to any are 'no', then you have identified an issue which may require some adjustment. You can still save your business and even improve it beyond what it was before with a little forethought and a few (minor) changes. Don't give up, keep going.
Best wishes,
John.
Good advice. Be objective and if you are happy with the answers and clean every window, consider it a blip. And go out canvassing yourself.
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Flashy leaflets and shiny vans dont get you the work, it is you that does that, Hold your head up, believe in yourelf and go and get them
I would listen to them words, and say them to yourself whilst looking in a mirror, brush yourself down and get out there and don't let them win.
Quitters never win, and winners never quit.
Ian
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Having re-read the original post, it sounds as though a reluctance to go wfp is his biggest problem.
No complaints about his work trad but losing work to wfp guys suggests some issues with ladder use. Is it missing inaccessible windows, walking on slates, damage to gutters, dirty frames? Find out and offer a solution rather than jack it in.
A lot of trad WC`s are full of trepidation when making the switch but your customers seem to prefer it! Take advantage. And you could still offer a trad service.
But if you don`t want to fork the cash out, can`t be bothered to learn a new skill and just want to get a job (or try something else) then I can understand that.
Good luck anyway.
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If you are packing it in then I also might be interested here's my email spooky678@hotmail.com
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This is a prime example of how things have changed over the last few years.
When I started you could pick your area and gradually built a round, competition was not something that was often a problem.
Now things are different, new guys are coming into this business but are doing it in a different way. They market, they look professional and they keep pushing for new work.
There is only one answer to this. Retaliate! Either accept the fact that this industry has changed and move with the times, or sit back, carry on as before and watch things get away from you.
Losing customers is part of the job, they come and go for lots of reasons, (mostly legit ones) so you need to replace them. However all the people looking for a wc will naturally go for the first option they come across, ie. The ones doing the marketing.
Window cleaning is now a business. You don’t work for someone else so they wont keep you employed. You need to do it for yourself.
Either that or someone with ambition will move in and take over. Business Fact!
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I`d want to know why I was losing customers. I can probably guess why he`s not expanding (reasons already mentioned) but residential tend to be fairly loyal. And with no complaints ???.
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When I started up over 7 years with wfp, I was of the first in my area, now they are everywere.
Last week there was 5 different cleaners working on the same road, I also counted another 7 cleaners in the same day.
I do not advertise anymore apart from networking and direct mail shots to targeted companies, yet every week I get phone calls from new clients.
Mind you I do have a new shiny van with fantastic logos. ;D
If you are losing business to the compertition, then they are doing or offering something that you are not.
I would look at your business and find out what is missing and then fix it.
The majority of customers do not move from one window cleaner to another unless there is a good reason, the normal reason will be price or quality of service.
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After 6 years as a trad window cleaner I've reluctantly called it a day!
I've found over the last few years the amount of window cleaners in the area has majorly increased, trad and WFP. I've gradually been losing customers to the WFP guys which encouraged me to invest in my business and take the plunge and get myself a system. However before I bought the system I thought I'd do a little market research and find out just how much compition there is.
What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
So that's pretty much it for me, far to much compition out there to warrant investing £££ and and losing to many customers to continue on as a trad.
Another one bites the dust
A whole 12??
In my area (Sittingbourne) within the 3 mile radius there are about 10-15 window cleaners, without the 7 of us! (and soon to be 8 - looking for 7th franchisee now)
There will always be competition, if you can't compete you aren't cut out for self employment. After 6 years I would have thought your business was worth fighting for. Every time you lose a customer, get out there and get two more. Two is not that hard to find, and instead of your business fading away it will go from strength to strength. All you need is a bit of motivation, the market may be well serviced, but it's almost unlimited.
When I first started I had no competition, I could walk down any street and get every third house or more. Now it's totally different, but the work is still there, you just have to put in a bit more effort. All these new starts will be in a worse position than you, they need to build enough work from scratch to make a living, and with no previous experience most of them will get disheartened and give up.
You have the advantage of a solid established customer base. Why throw it away? Build on it and grow.
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Paul
Don't be so defeatist, there is loads you can do to gain new work, there is tons of work in Bristol, you just have to go about a strategy to find it
Dont just count the wfp guys, how many are still trad ? probably not as many as you think, a 3 sq mile in Bristol is huge.
Dave
3 mile radius is 28.278 sq miles :o
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Paul
Don't be so defeatist, there is loads you can do to gain new work, there is tons of work in Bristol, you just have to go about a strategy to find it
Dont just count the wfp guys, how many are still trad ? probably not as many as you think, a 3 sq mile in Bristol is huge.
Dave
3 mile radius is 28.278 sq miles :o
And how many houses would there be in that area! Plus further a field. Goodness me dont give up! The summer brigade will die out soon enough. You need to be there strong to show them whos boss. Or maybe your just part of the summer brigade yourself.
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I travel over 200 miles for some of my work
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There is always the problem of the newbie pricing well below the job's value. The original poster might trad a house for £10, new guy, with his new equipment comes along & thinks (especially if he's been given all the wfp hype) Hmmm, I can do that in 5 minutes, that'll be £5 mrs.!!
So that's half price to the customer! A few things can happen here, he might not do as good a job but he's half the price, the price of work gets ruined & can take some time to recover, he must get the work to pay for his investment & so (at this stage) is happy to work for the price he sets as he could always gradually increase it once he's netted so many customers.
If you still have the "want" to go forward you could-
1. Stay trad & market trad. Turn the tide on your competition & promote trad whilst also informing all the negatives of wfp, even if some are "white lies" Be aggressive, it's your business at stake!
2. Invest in wfp, even if it's a backpack & a DI vessel. Promote yourself with wfp & do the same as in option 1 but the other way round. Go after your competitions work while maintaining what you've already got.
In all cases- Be professional, look professional & be friendly & polite to all customers. ;)
Been a good thread this, keep us informed.
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Paul J - in my little corner of Bristol (Between Avonmouth and The Downs) there are living the following that I know personally:-
Wfp Filton - 08 Shiny Scudo
Wfp/trad Filton - clapped out Pug 405 estate
In Sea Mills 3 wfp windies - 06 shiny Scudo/56 shiny doblo - me! /08 4x4 mitsubishi thingy
In Stoke Bishop 2 wfp windie with mitsubishi 4 x 4 and Escort 75 van respectively.
In Lawrence Weston 2 wfp windies (02 scudo/05 partner)
In Severn beach 1 wfp windy (05 doblo)
In Avonmouth 1 Husband and wife team (Big ducato/boxer thingy)
In Shirehampton 1 Father/son wfp - Vivaro 55 plate
In Southmead 1 trad windy
In Westbury on Trym 1 wfp/trad - mondeo estate
In Brentry 2 wfp - 1 in a van. 1 car and trailer
Plus a couple of old boy tradders in their motors.
Besides these there is a franchiser and I see their vans going around (4 I think but they also go into the centre of town)
So thats 15/20 windies! And yes my custies tell me that loads of canvassing is going on but I've not lost one to another windy.
However I do feel that there are enough w/c's in the area and that it isn't as easy as it was to get new biz. And Avonmouth commercials are cutting back - and that is a filthy environment.
So I wouldn't give up - maybe you're losing to wfp because unlike OOP NORTH, in N.W. Bristol wfp is now the norm and custies "know" they can get their awkward windows and frames cleaned and won't have health and safety issues if a guy falls on their property.
If you are really giving up I will give you good rates for any decent work my side of the River round to the A38. e - mail me on mgwc1@hotmail.com
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I go to Bristol most weekends; and there's a ruddy lot of glass in that large city.
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Another thing you could try -
If you're feeling a bit low put ITV3 on at 1.30pm, a double Jeremy Kyle! After that you should feel quite normal & quite happy at being just that! 8)
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After 6 years as a trad window cleaner I've reluctantly called it a day!
I've found over the last few years the amount of window cleaners in the area has majorly increased, trad and WFP. I've gradually been losing customers to the WFP guys which encouraged me to invest in my business and take the plunge and get myself a system. However before I bought the system I thought I'd do a little market research and find out just how much compition there is.
What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
So that's pretty much it for me, far to much compition out there to warrant investing £££ and and losing to many customers to continue on as a trad.
Another one bites the dust
Sorry to hear that, I have them days too, there is a lot of competition everywhere and with things as tough as they are it's no wonder people are calling it a day!
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Another thing you could try -
If you're feeling a bit low put ITV3 on at 1.30pm, a double Jeremy Kyle! After that you should feel quite normal & quite happy at being just that! 8)
HAHA ;D good 1 m8 :D
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Paul J - in my little corner of Bristol (Between Avonmouth and The Downs) there are living the following that I know personally:-
Wfp Filton - 08 Shiny Scudo
Wfp/trad Filton - clapped out Pug 405 estate
In Sea Mills 3 wfp windies - 06 shiny Scudo/56 shiny doblo - me! /08 4x4 mitsubishi thingy
In Stoke Bishop 2 wfp windie with mitsubishi 4 x 4 and Escort 75 van respectively.
In Lawrence Weston 2 wfp windies (02 scudo/05 partner)
In Severn beach 1 wfp windy (05 doblo)
In Avonmouth 1 Husband and wife team (Big ducato/boxer thingy)
In Shirehampton 1 Father/son wfp - Vivaro 55 plate
In Southmead 1 trad windy
In Westbury on Trym 1 wfp/trad - mondeo estate
In Brentry 2 wfp - 1 in a van. 1 car and trailer
Plus a couple of old boy tradders in their motors.
Besides these there is a franchiser and I see their vans going around (4 I think but they also go into the centre of town)
So thats 15/20 windies! And yes my custies tell me that loads of canvassing is going on but I've not lost one to another windy.
However I do feel that there are enough w/c's in the area and that it isn't as easy as it was to get new biz. And Avonmouth commercials are cutting back - and that is a filthy environment.
So I wouldn't give up - maybe you're losing to wfp because unlike OOP NORTH, in N.W. Bristol wfp is now the norm and custies "know" they can get their awkward windows and frames cleaned and won't have health and safety issues if a guy falls on their property.
If you are really giving up I will give you good rates for any decent work my side of the River round to the A38. e - mail me on mgwc1@hotmail.com
and if it in the posh side of bristol ie keynsham/brislington then email me @ rich-frank@hotmail.co.uk ;D ;D ;D ;D
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i used to drive through keysham its not posh ::) well maybe for bristol it is :-*
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we are all seeing new starters, a few of my customers have told me they have had a few leafelts etc etc
as you start off, you are desperate for work, thus you will do it cheaper, it will in the long run drive down prices, but then again most of us have been earning a very nice wage doing window cleaning, i have said it for a while, the bubble was allways going to burst
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we are all seeing new starters, a few of my customers have told me they have had a few leafelts etc etc
as you start off, you are desperate for work, thus you will do it cheaper, it will in the long run drive down prices, but then again most of us have been earning a very nice wage doing window cleaning, i have said it for a while, the bubble was allways going to burst
Might end up being centre parks this year then matt? ;D ;D
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we are all seeing new starters, a few of my customers have told me they have had a few leafelts etc etc
as you start off, you are desperate for work, thus you will do it cheaper, it will in the long run drive down prices, but then again most of us have been earning a very nice wage doing window cleaning, i have said it for a while, the bubble was allways going to burst
Might end up being centre parks this year then matt? ;D ;D
;D ;D
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After 6 years as a trad window cleaner I've reluctantly called it a day!
I've found over the last few years the amount of window cleaners in the area has majorly increased, trad and WFP. I've gradually been losing customers to the WFP guys which encouraged me to invest in my business and take the plunge and get myself a system. However before I bought the system I thought I'd do a little market research and find out just how much compition there is.
What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
So that's pretty much it for me, far to much compition out there to warrant investing £££ and and losing to many customers to continue on as a trad.
Another one bites the dust
A whole 12??
In my area (Sittingbourne) within the 3 mile radius there are about 10-15 window cleaners, without the 7 of us! (and soon to be 8 - looking for 7th franchisee now)
There will always be competition, if you can't compete you aren't cut out for self employment. After 6 years I would have thought your business was worth fighting for. Every time you lose a customer, get out there and get two more. Two is not that hard to find, and instead of your business fading away it will go from strength to strength. All you need is a bit of motivation, the market may be well serviced, but it's almost unlimited.
When I first started I had no competition, I could walk down any street and get every third house or more. Now it's totally different, but the work is still there, you just have to put in a bit more effort. All these new starts will be in a worse position than you, they need to build enough work from scratch to make a living, and with no previous experience most of them will get disheartened and give up.
You have the advantage of a solid established customer base. Why throw it away? Build on it and grow.
Ian
I have been thinking about how to move forward my company, and franchising is one of the ways I am looking at.
Can you give me some details on the best way to do this.
Cheers william
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You need to sell yourself aswell as what you do,get customers to like you aswell as you just being the window cleaner.Trust is the no1 thing in this game and 99.9% will pay a little bit more for that.
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After 6 years as a trad window cleaner I've reluctantly called it a day!
I've found over the last few years the amount of window cleaners in the area has majorly increased, trad and WFP. I've gradually been losing customers to the WFP guys which encouraged me to invest in my business and take the plunge and get myself a system. However before I bought the system I thought I'd do a little market research and find out just how much compition there is.
What can I say, I was stunned to see so many WFP window cleaners in my area.....12! And that was in a 3 mile radius of where I live! God knows how many there are in the whole city (Bristol)?!
So that's pretty much it for me, far to much compition out there to warrant investing £££ and and losing to many customers to continue on as a trad.
Another one bites the dust
A whole 12??
In my area (Sittingbourne) within the 3 mile radius there are about 10-15 window cleaners, without the 7 of us! (and soon to be 8 - looking for 7th franchisee now)
There will always be competition, if you can't compete you aren't cut out for self employment. After 6 years I would have thought your business was worth fighting for. Every time you lose a customer, get out there and get two more. Two is not that hard to find, and instead of your business fading away it will go from strength to strength. All you need is a bit of motivation, the market may be well serviced, but it's almost unlimited.
When I first started I had no competition, I could walk down any street and get every third house or more. Now it's totally different, but the work is still there, you just have to put in a bit more effort. All these new starts will be in a worse position than you, they need to build enough work from scratch to make a living, and with no previous experience most of them will get disheartened and give up.
You have the advantage of a solid established customer base. Why throw it away? Build on it and grow.
Ian
I have been thinking about how to move forward my company, and franchising is one of the ways I am looking at.
Can you give me some details on the best way to do this.
Cheers william
Sure. e-mail me: ianlancaster@blueyonder.co.uk
Had loads of people ask me this, but only one followed up, so far ;)
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Email sent
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after 6 yrs u must have a good round .since i went 90% wfp i have lost a few regulers only because they dont like the water left on windows ( even though it drys off clean .) but i have taken more on than i lost due to word n mouth .yes we have all noticed a increase of new windies this yr .but keep going it cant b as bad as unemployment .unless u have something else lined up .whatever u couse best of luck mate .
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Paul
Just to take a slightly differnt tack to some of the other posters, there are lots of new start ups out there, lots of them give up after only a very short time, they dont like the weather or the hard work.
If you shop around you can get set up cheaply with 2nd hand gear, wfp will speed up your work so you will have extra time to work on some marketing. The investment levels dont need to be big to give the impression of flashy.
Stick at it, what are your alternatives. Different if you have an option of another career choice waiting then it might make sense.