Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Perfect Windows on March 28, 2010, 10:42:13 am
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I spent a lot of time researching and creating a post on cold selling regulations and their effect on us. I spent half an hour reading the law and translating it, then posted. The thread then descended into farce as people basically told the original poster and me that we didn't know what we were talking about, and that they had "expert" friends who had read the thread sometime between midnight and 9am (what a Saturday night that must have been!) and knew we were wrong.
I'm pretty new here. I gained a lot of good information from this forum and I thought I could add to it. I also thought I could escape the "shoot the messenger" approach of many of the people on here. Obviously not. It's no wonder people leave this place so regularly.
I'm not going to leave (my ego's not that big), but I certainly won't be investing time like that again. Result!
V
V,
You have learnt a leasson on ciu, that not everything to do will be taken in by some people, others will take the P, others will help add to it.
There are more people on here that do not post, these are the people that would read your post with interest, I read it and found it interesting.
My Ego is massive and i'm still here :D
I invest my time a lot on here helping others, I would not let a minority put you off, from what I read your better than that, dust down and carry on helping others it is a thankless task most of the time but some of us like to do it.
Enjoy your sunday.
Ian
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I spent a lot of time researching and creating a post on cold selling regulations and their effect on us. I spent half an hour reading the law and translating it, then posted. The thread then descended into farce as people basically told the original poster and me that we didn't know what we were talking about, and that they had "expert" friends who had read the thread sometime between midnight and 9am (what a Saturday night that must have been!) and knew we were wrong.
I'm pretty new here. I gained a lot of good information from this forum and I thought I could add to it. I also thought I could escape the "shoot the messenger" approach of many of the people on here. Obviously not. It's no wonder people leave this place so regularly.
I'm not going to leave (my ego's not that big), but I certainly won't be investing time like that again. Result!
V
I decided to lock the thread in the end. I hope it didn't prevent anyone posting who wanted to provide decent input rather than just focus on making personal digs. I've taken several breaks from this forum and deleted accounts. These days - in line with the new forum rules - I prefer to use my real name. I won't be deleting my account but I will probably take more breaks now that I am needing to focus more on my work.
Although I would agee that it is unlikely, my post may have helped someone to stay within the law on doorstep selling.
I, for one, appreciated your post. I also appreciated the posts of people who didn't like what I wrote. However, I was only a messenger and felt that if someone had a grievance about the law, it should have been directed at the legislators rather than having a personal, childish dig.
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Paul, you should of kept your thread going. As i said the law is a mind field and a grey area in some cases and for someone to spend 1/2 an hour reading up on law then to slate someone reading the post in 12 hours who has a partner who has spent years studying this sort of law cannot be put down.
Dave made a great point in your thread, and gives talk for a great debate, and should not be taken personally. We all cant know everything about anything, buy as a group, we share a wide area knowledge.
This can only be a good thing just to see how people see things, and then to see how others see it who maybe in a better position to do so.
Paul, it is without doubt a good post to have put out, even if it is to battle it out. But as a debate only. We need to be more thick skinned.
Dave - Like your cool head approach. Keep it up.
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Perfect Windows.
Oh dear, looks like you are the one that takes it personally. Try reading it properly.
It is my partner that is in the law game, and was with me when I picked up the thread. And as I have done door knocking before I know how it works.
Take a chill pill, relax and enjoy the debate. No point knocking others people down
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If as C & B said this is the thread(below)
I imagine that most people aren't aware of this but there is a particular regulation that applies to jobs of £35 or more. It applies even if the customer contacts you.
Jobs of £35 or more are subject, by law, to a 7 day cooling off period. This means that if you quote £35 or more for a job and do the job within 7 days of striking the deal, the customer can legally refuse to pay just by saying that they have changed their mind and didn't want it done after all. This has applied since 1/10/2008.
Also, this info has to be supplied in writing even if the job has no written contract.
That's informative, that's the sort of thing you would expect on a forum for w/cleaners... It makes you think!
It was also helpful, I never read the whole thread, but I did like David Morris @ St Ives comment (my here's been around and still here, thick skinned or what... well done!)
Thanks for the info V
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this is rediculous, do you really think the government would put into law the option for people to refuse to pay for services recieved for no reason, as long as they are within a 7 day cooling off period?
example, i clean a building in 6 days and charge £5,000. the person decides no i dont want to pay, im cancelling the contract.
i can go to court and start a civil action against that person! that is the law!
now im not saying someone cant cancel your services, but they have to pay for services recieved.
speak to your solicitor if your confused.
and another thing, if it was true, why would you tell your customers they have a legal right to refuse to pay if they dont want to? im sorry if youve wasted hours of your time researching this subject but, if this was true the whole economy would collapse as people wouldnt pay for anything!
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hehe Well said Mogsy
I just got back form a from a trip to town this morning. Decided to get a taxi home. Taxi man said "£35 please" I said "I want to cancel our agreement, so no money for you, but thanks for the free ride.", he said "ok then, thats the law, see ya, have a nice day"
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I can't see what the big deal is really. If someone wants to run their business without complying with certain legislation then fine - go for it.
I can see why Mr Willis from a few weeks ago got peed off now though and deleted his account.
I sometimes read complaints that nothing new ever gets put on here. Then something new (to most people presumably) does get put on here and look what happens.
If someone on here dislikes the legislation, write to your MP. It's what they're paid for.
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I think people are just getting there point across Paul. Try not to get to hung up on it. We all have our own ideas, and I for one like to see what others think of subjects, and then respect them for it.
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Speaking of regulations, always remember Rule 62!
But 42 is the real daddy of all of life's rules.
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Speaking of regulations, always remember Rule 62!
OK Tosh. Out with it. What's rule 62? :)
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Paul, you should know this one! ;D
Rule 62: Don't take yourself too seriously!
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And the meaning of life is 42.
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Paul, you should know this one! ;D
Rule 62: Don't take yourself too seriously!
Yeah. Too true mate.
I needed reminding of that one I think. :)
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And the meaning of life is 42.
It sounds like we may have read some of the same books Malc :)
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And the meaning of life is 42.
It sounds like we may have read some of the same books Malc :)
Yes but at least you didn't have to sit through Freddy's Grand Nightmare (err ... "Revelation and it's Grand anti-anti-anti-typical modern meaning" three and a half times every Tuesday evening! ;D)
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>Perfect Windows
Take a step back, friend while you may feel you are "casting pearls before swine" to quote the good book ;D there are some of us here who appreciate your posts.
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my god perfect windows dont you go on and on and on. Oh and on.
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Hmmm this is getting daft PW!
Are you an expert in the subject? I know I am not.
Would be good to have this looked into properly see where we stand without jumping to conclusions. But interesting reading anyway.
Thats it from me on this subject, happy days!
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Perfect Windows you sound like an old boss of mine. ::)
He was the manager of the company & organised the workings, & not always in the most logical of ways, but if anyone had a better/quicker or more efficient idea on doing things, he would dismiss this & say you have an attitude problem, lol.
I think you are going to have to accept that people are allowed to have opinions.
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Perfect
Dont be too despondent, It can happen from time to time, you are dealing with humans, and humans are sometimes a bit cranky or tired, argumentative, hungover, just had an arguement with there wife, so are sometimes not on top form.
Maybe they just want a row.
On another day them very same people might not affect you at all are more pleasant to speak to, the trouble is out of the thousands of members you will always encounter people who you clash with
The best thing to do is just ;D smile
Paul
If you leave again, can you at least email me first
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Perfect
Dont be too despondent, It can happen from time to time, you are dealing with humans, and humans are sometimes a bit cranky or tired, argumentative, hungover, just had an arguement with there wife, so are sometimes not on top form.
Maybe they just want a row.
On another day them very same people might not affect you at all are more pleasant to speak to, the trouble is out of the thousands of members you will always encounter people who you clash with
The best thing to do is just ;D smile
Paul
If you leave again, can you at least email me first
Dave. I'm not going anywhere but I won't be using this forum as much in the coming months. That has nothing to do with stuff that's posted on here. There are just other things in my business and my life that need taking care of so I will be more occupied elsewhere.
I find it quite ridiculous really that you can do your best to supply info and end up with threads like this (and the other one). If I encounter something that is relevant to window cleaning and I feel that some may find it useful, I won't let threads like this stop me posting it. It may not always seems so but I do have a thicker hide than some might realise (does my bum look big in this? :) ).
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I can`t reply to the other "locked" thread, so can someone please clear this up?
Are you saying that the customer has the right to cancel the order within 7 days after the work has been done on jobs over £35.00,
OR
Are you saying that the customer has the right to cancel the order within 7 days of the contract being made on jobs over £35.00? So you should in effect not carry this work out for atleast 8 days from the date the agreement was made?
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You've gone off topic, the guy felt cheated because he'd researched a good post and got handbagged by someone claiming his wifes a barrister and therefore quoting actual regs was pointless in the face of a superior education and intellect.
This debate implies two sides, very similar to wfp and trad. Depending on which method suits you, or whether you are flogging safety courses, this decides whether it is legal or not.
In this case the two options come as follows.
We don't like £5000 fines for cold calling because we do it and it gets us customers.
And
We do like it because it protects us from poachers who don't advertise and like to disturb the well deserved peace of our customers.
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Hi Slumps,
I see what you mean, & will start a new post on this. :)
I just thought that as Perfect Windows was combining this & the locked post, then it was on topic, & might clear this matter up.
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I spent time on something and didn't even get a hit.I will bump it by way of illustration.
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It's always tempting to bump posts, and probably against the rules.I 'll just bump one more then.....(not this one)
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sorry paul and the other guy if i came across as rude to your post,
but i cant understand where im going wrong in this part of the law
9 (2) Where the consumer cancels a specified contract in accordance with regulation 8 he shall be under a duty to pay in accordance with the reasonable requirements of the cancelled contract for goods or services that were supplied before the cancellation.
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sorry paul and the other guy if i came across as rude to your post,
but i cant understand where im going wrong in this part of the law
9 (2) Where the consumer cancels a specified contract in accordance with regulation 8 he shall be under a duty to pay in accordance with the reasonable requirements of the cancelled contract for goods or services that were supplied before the cancellation.
I linked to the relevant website before (not the one you've quoted I think). Whatever individual interpretations are, it appeared to state that to not inform people, in writing, of their cancellation rights (if a job is over £35), is an infringement of law. I think that if more detailed explanation is necessary, I'm not the one to do it as I'm not a lawyer.
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Hi Paul,
I have had a good read through the links on the other post, & it does make sense to me now, & thank you for making us aware of this!
I think much of the problems occured when another individual posted their own interpretation of this & added their own bits that were a bit different to the original, lol.
:)
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Ive been away this weekend
what have i missed ? ? ?
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Ive been away this weekend
what have i missed ? ? ?
Ohhhhhh, dude, it's been the best weekend ever!!! fights, fallouts, gossip, handbags, b*tching like never before. It's been like 400 window cleaners locked in a room all on heat!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just the usual matt, nothing to get too exited about! ;)
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Ive been away this weekend
what have i missed ? ? ?
Ohhhhhh, dude, it's been the best weekend ever!!! fights, fallouts, gossip, handbags, b*tching like never before. It's been like 400 window cleaners locked in a room all on heat!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just the usual matt, nothing to get too exited about! ;)
and to think i missed it all with a weekend away to see peppa pig live
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I think everyone should learn some Buddhist philosophy/psychology so they can learn how to be serene and spread loving-kindness to everyone. ;D
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I think everyone should learn some Buddhist philosophy/psychology so they can learn how to be serene and spread loving-kindness to everyone. ;D
Is that before or after they thump them? ;D