Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Bryan_Dolby on March 21, 2010, 08:46:54 pm
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Hi
Meeting with the HSE very soon
Please tell me any problems you think we should be talking about
Balconies
Window cleaners using ladders when R/A WAHR says you should be using WFP
Ladders not been securded to the building
Incorrect use of trailing hose pipes
These issues have allready been sent in by members
Bryan
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Balconies and flat roofs are the biggest problem for me, if you read the hse website , they say short duration we can use different control measures.
It would be good if the HSE can give a real life worked example of a couple of windows being cleaned on a flat roof at maximum allowable height and what control measures should be put in place.
The same for balconies, what id=s the definitave height when we cant climb over something and when we can what are the control measures.
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Incorrect use of trailing hose pipes
What does this mean?
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Lozsing I think it regards keeping the hose on the ground and as straight and flat as possible, not looped into a "birds nest" as this would be easier for people to trip over.
Matt
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i dont think it was a members only question, he asked what people wanted to ask HSE, if he didnt we would all be moaning that the HSE doesn know what a window cleaner really does and are bringing out stupid rules, at least we have someone who can get a meeting with the HSE and get our point over, weather we are members or not
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Bryan is just asking for feedback on how the Federation can adjust and improve.
Saying the FWC is useless is an invalid point without stating how the Federation can be improved!!
Matt
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Bryan is wanting everyday window cleaners to raise any issues with regards to HSE as he will put this to them.
Sorry for previous post, I had forgotten which topic I was in.
Matt
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david @ st ives, this was not a flippant comment at all, but quite a serious one.
I do not believe that the FWC is any good, its as simple as that. From what I can gather (though bryan dolby very pointedly DID NOT answer this question when i asked it before) they have about 1000 members, and therefore are nothing but a minor group who cant claim to represent anything.
Just for the record bryan, since you are not ignoring me this time, how many members do you have? Simple question; lets see if you answer.
Bryan you said:
We do not represent you
But your website says that one of the aims of the FWC is to:
"Represent the Industry with government and municipal bodies."
It does not say "to represent members" is says to represent THE INDUSTRY. IE window cleaners as a whole. So actually you ARE trying to represent me, whether I am a member or not. This is what I object to.
You seem to know everthing about the window cleaning industry
can you tell me how long you have been window cleaning
what W/C qualifications have you got
Industry experience
Do you use ladders or WFP
You remind me of that willis fella who came on here claiming to be the king of the industry when he actually knew nothing about waterfed poles and had never ever used them before. I am a window cleaner of about 3 years or so, i dont claim to know "all about the industry " at all, but I can spot a rubbishy, old fashioned association when I see one, I've seen them before in other industries. I am not claiming to represent anybody, unlike you.
I just dont think its right that my so-called interests are represented by the FWC who I think are useless. How do I know you really will represent my interests? How do I know, for example, that you wont try to force through a law that requires all window cleaners to members of the FWC?
Nothing flippant about that.
And just so you know I havent forgotten, how many members has the FWC got? See if you answer.
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hi Matt, ru a member?
Not yet but hopefully within the next couple of weeks I will be.
Matt
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hi Matt, ru a member?
Not yet but hopefully within the next couple of weeks I will be.
Matt
matt pull your finger out then it could be this week ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P
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hi Matt, ru a member?
Not yet but hopefully within the next couple of weeks I will be.
Matt
thanks Matt ;) think im gonna leave this thread alone & talk 2Craig at POLARBRITE
n c wot he thinks ::) ;D
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lol @ Franky, I might do mate
Matt
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Drwindows
all we have established in 20 replies is that you dont want representing,
llets just see wht everyone else suggests
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lol @ Franky, I might do mate
Matt
;)
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ok here goes
can you ask if it is acceptable to use ladders when cleaning first floor windows using the safest method possible from a ladder when using wfp would mean you are soaking the non customers window down stairs
is it acceptable to clean from a ladder when the windows are poorly maintained and fragile and using wfp could result in breakages and damage to the glass
as well as the points you already have
oh one more if ladders are used is a A frame (pointer) acceptable with only three points of contact and not certified to en131 or whatever the certification is
hope you get some decent answers from the HSE good luck
ps franky stop biting ;D
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Bryan,
There seems to be a lot of different attitudes to what the work at height directive means for our industry. I don't want a HSE version of the ladders vs wfp debate,.. but perhaps some serious clarification on what the regulations mean in the real world to us.
What is "reasonably practicable" with regards to ladder use. Is "wfp costs too much" something that would make ladders a "reasonably practicable" option?
What is "Short duration" work on a ladder,.. eg a window might only take 2 minutes to clean, but if you're up and down the ladder 6 hours of the day repeating the same task, how is it viewed?
Real clarification, real answers, no excused & no loopholes,... and all with a good dash of common sense,... if you can do that I'll buy you a pint at the next Windex!
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Industry comparisons, it feels to me as if the wc industry is being very heavily regulated by the hse, not in comparison to say construction but if it is compared to painting and decorating there seems to be a major imbalance.
Perhaps this is just my perception and that if I was a painting contractor I would feel different, but I would be interested if there is a different approach being taken by the HSE to different industries and the levels of enforcment.
Oh and I would be interested to know how many members the fwc has ;D
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Nat
I will try
Bryan
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i would like to know regarding tanks in vans if they have any plans to stop diy sets up and make you have a crash tested system, as if this happens this might have a bigger impact than the use of ladders reg
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I have deleted a lot of posts, I want the answers to be relevent, not tit for tat,
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bryan
i got pulled up the other week,by the highways agency.
working a way in a cud de suc.where you dont see anybody.van parked on the road,hose lying on road then crosses over the path to the house.where i was working.cones on paths warning people.
he said i was breaking hs laws and to move the hose.
now to mr average,is this h&s gone mad.
how would you deal with this.
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Ladders not been securded, is a major issue for me, thousands of w,c use unsecured ladders every day and break the law and HSE have prosecuted no w/c for this
Not getting involved in ladder/WFP, just why wont they secure them, even JW who view life as sacred and hundreds dont secure
idealrob
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Ladders not been securded, is a major issue for me, thousands of w,c use unsecured ladders every day and break the law and HSE have prosecuted no w/c for this
Not getting involved in ladder/WFP, just why wont they secure them, even JW who view life as sacred and hundreds dont secure
idealrob
Is this accurate?
What I understand is that ladders extended to 6 metres and over are required to be secured to the building or scaffold.
6 metres is approximately the height of the guttering on a standard 3 bed semi.
Matt
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No height rule, all ladders must be secure. When we used to use ladders, we used a Rojac stopper and a ladder limpit, felt safe & secure.
most trad guys complain about cost of WFP , when for under a grand you can get a good system, bur still wont spend £40 on a ladder stopper that complies with securing ladders
idealrob
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No height rule, all ladders must be secure. When we used to use ladders, we used a Rojac stopper and a ladder limpit, felt safe & secure.
most trad guys complain about cost of WFP , when for under a grand you can get a good system, bur still wont spend £40 on a ladder stopper that complies with securing ladders
idealrob
there is a height rule and its 6 meters
thers another one to clear up then
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So wheres the proof of height rule, what section is it in please of the WAHR
idealrob
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one major issue i have is the use of ladders for internal windows ie in staircases and foyers etc, due to the way the WAHR are written some sites i clean automatically think that the use of ladder for these tasks is unaceptable and that i should be using so called safer access equipment like scaffolding but the risks of carrying scaffold through buildings erecting them and using them far outweighs the risk of using a secured ladder for a 20 minute job, i do use poles with microfibre pads and also use the ionics pro 10 for some internal work but for most jobs these just arent good enough as frames and sills are still left dirty.
other issues have already been asked ie balconies and flat roofs.
i think in the whole this is a good constructive topic and i would like to thank bryan for trying to get some answers at his next meeting.
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Thank you for the information
Will collate ever thing and get back to you after the meeting
Will lock topic now
Bryan