Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on March 21, 2010, 07:42:43 pm
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I am getting fed up with sorting poles, vans, controllers, staff, routes, etc every evening.
I already sub out a good amount of work in Plymouth, Devon and Dorset and Somerset. I am seriously thinking of winding the staff down and subbing most of it out.
I was speaking to some guys at Windex and it works for them, maybe that is the next logical solution.
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flipping heck David :o thats a huge area you cover :o
& BEAUTIFUL part of the country ;D
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Sorry to hear you're getting cheesed off but if you do go down that route I would be interested in any work in North Devon near Bideford.My parents moved down that way last year and it would be a good excuse to go down and spend some time down there if I had a bit of work.
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sub in most of it out and keeping a little bit to give you something to do, to me this makes sense.
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How was you thinking of structuring the monthly payments etc?
Im interested in maybe subbing some of my current work out as my other business gets busy.
Cheers
Danny
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I am getting fed up with sorting poles, vans, controllers, staff, routes, etc every evening.
I already sub out a good amount of work in Plymouth, Devon and Dorset and Somerset. I am seriously thinking of winding the staff down and subbing most of it out.
I was speaking to some guys at Windex and it works for them, maybe that is the next logical solution.
Dave that is something I would strongly advise you to think hard about.
I know you would be looking at all the angles like profit margins, reliability, running costs etc.
Wouldnt it be benefitial to have one of your guys to check and sort out all the equipment, if you don't mind me asking do you run your business from your house or from a unit and office?
Matt
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Hitman We cover from the Isles of Scilly to the Isle of wight, the furthest East we have work is in Bordon, not quite national, but I am working on it
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if ur serious about subbing, i would be happy to sub/rent of you dave
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Dave
have you got a subby contract
Please email
Bryan
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Hitman We cover from the Isles of Scilly to the Isle of wight, the furthest East we have work is in Bordon, not quite national, but I am working on it
wow! :o now thats how it should be done ;) ive now got green eyes :-[
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mb
I run from home, I sub out very successfully in certain parts, works quite well for us.
I reckon after employee costs etc we wouldnt be far off the mark in terms of profit.
Bryan
No subby contracts, just gentlemens agreements, maybe something to consider though,
Daz
I will keep that in mind
hitman
We have to travel far and wide, lots of competition and not enough work in the Southwest,
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Interesting.
It's only me plus one but i find the admin a pain. I have to sort water, recharge van and reel batteries, reconcile payments, print work off etc.
I know you have to do more.
FHowever, my latest pro tank install does seem to have stopped a lot of the constant fixing i used to have to do.Your vans look pretty neat and i would expect reliability to come from robust systems.
That's why people have IONICS .(I haven't got one i'm just saying).
I do tend to buy back up pumps and reels etc, so if something goes a quick switch can be affected.This is a waste of money, but these things have been used, and turned out to be purchases i would have had to make anyway.
From comments you have made in the past, your approach is either shrewd at keeping costs down or penny pinching.I find spending more works better.
As you know i have a m/trading background, and nothing winds me up more than people having seventy grand range rovers and mercs (i'm talking about a husband and wife i know) and the biz- a catering trailer is a fifteen year old dirty heap.
That doesn't really have that much relevance, but my point is that improvements can always be made and there are still probably things that can be learned off this forum to make our lives easier.
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Hi Slumpbuster, I have 2 crash tested systems on order, for fitting in a couple of weeks.
If you seen my costs you would have an heart attack.
My staff have bets to see who can give me an heart attack first.
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I cant advise on whether its good to sub out or employ Dave, as I have very little experience with employing and I have never subbed work out, sorry.
What I would say is get as much info as possible and weigh up the pro's and con's.
Also I would get the subbies on a formal agreement too.
Thats just my opinion Dave
Matt
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Matt
we already do some subbing so nothing new there, employing is ok too.
I reckon you will be employing a lot sooner than you think
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why dont u sub out area, sort of franchising, that way u still get paid for the contract and just cream the top of and then pay the franchers, even put them on 30 day accounts
i bought a tank of a bloke the other week, who said he use to sub out a job it was grand every 3 months for a weeks work and the bloke didnt want it any more as he had to wait 30 days to get paid
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Why not take a back seat from wfp and sort out paper work out in the day along with doing quotes and checking quality of work?
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Steve
that is what i already do, have you seen the size of my belly ?
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how many vans you got running?
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we got 3 running at the moment
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why not franchise it like ian lancaster?
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And what's going to happen to your current employees?
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Franchising isnt for me, not enough profits to earnings ratio
Current employees just wouldnt be replaced as they leave
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so what would be ur plan, sub out contracts or areas
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daz
early days, just airing my thoughts on a Sunday evening, preparing this weeks work and the vans for tomorrow
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like you said, you might be better off just subbying out, getting contracts, and just slowly wind ur wc side down as and when the lads leave, some times the stress isnt worth the money
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Do you send your guys to residential custys, i could see that being a bit of a headache,
do your guys take the vans home?
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Yes the guys do about 20% residential,
the vans stay on my street annoying the neighbours, should send them off with the staff, but they dont want to take them home
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so your guys pull up at your at the end of the day and you refill the vans with water and fuel & repair any equipment then do a work sheet for the next day and book in jobs?
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Hi Dave
I'm still available for work in Hants ;D
Rich
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Hi Rich, still waiting for the nod on the work
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so your guys pull up at your at the end of the day and you refill the vans with water and fuel & repair any equipment then do a work sheet for the next day and book in jobs?
Yes, i assume the answer is yes, but a bit more detail would be good. I wonder about this.
Presumably each van must be jockeyed as transfer hose only comes in thirty metre lengths. Mine just gets from my shed at the back to van at the front.
How many clipboards and how many work lists.Who decides the order?
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Steve, Slump
end of day, guys come back, hand in worksheets and dockets, half of them left in the van, half unsigned, money never adds up, jobs which arent done are unexplained, have to spend 1 hour running around finding out whats gone wrong etc, finally get everything together and mark off worksheets, money still doesnt add up, some days £50 over ? some days £3.17 under, total mystery sometimes.
Now the interesting bit, guys drive to garage to fill up vans from 3000l holding tanks if they remember, I go out to check everything ok, drive to petrol station if any vans are empty, rearrange poles for next day, put dockets and appropiate worksheets for the next day in the right vans, this is after I have had a good look at the work and have decided which is the best route. certain drivers can only drive certain vans (insurance purposes) some cant drive, so just sorting this bit is hair pulling time.
All above is the simplified version, this is without any broken equipment i am told about at 10.30 in the evening.
Need to know anymore just ask
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i would say it could be organised better, i have simalar problems and this would be my solution.
Get a unit yes a cost but you have said you get about 60 % gross profit i think, this would give you a home life and a business life helping you to switch off.
Now the work sheets if done are done on say WCP so almost do them selves, i try to keep everyday the same so the rounds are already in order so no need to do routes. i would have Teams that stay the same and drive the same van so no need to arrange drives what.
with the money its as simple has this you give them float they sign they then take on the responsibity to make sure money is correct work sheets are filled in correctly slip are postd ect ect if not done they are warned.
this is part of there job description and must be done correctly(i have the non driver dong this from job to job)
repairs can be done by the staff generally your not there to wipe there ass, and finally geta fuel card and let them fill up them selves.
i employ to make life easier once that stops its time for new employees.
If that fails get a contarcts manager to do all that for you and also be hands on and help get more work im sure profit leaves you enough to dothis and making your life easier is which is more important than a littl extra profit??
staff wil always push and test you though!
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sack the lot and sub it out
all that hassle is doing you no good
mess there wages up on purpose and watch how much grief you get
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To me it just seems like you are having a moan at your staff! :)
If what you say is true then it is totally unacceptable in any trade that employees can conduct themselves so casually.
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WiseOwl
It is not the staffs fault they are trying 100%, sometimes they cant help it, even after a rollocking and the fear of the sack, some are good at somethings and bad at others, some are good all rounders but people are people.
not having a moan, just got asked to elaborate, the end of day tasks
Ronnie
I am with you all the way, the theory is fantastic.
We do have fuel cards etc, but life is never that smooth,
the reality is another matter.
All in all the staff are good, just the same old problems everyday.
Routes, You will realize as you grow the route planning gets more complicated, we do over 500 stores a month as well as about 1000 other jobs, all varying times and frequencies. some twice weekly some weekly, fortnightly , monthly, four weekly, 6 weekly, 8 weekly, 2 monthly, quarterly, 6 monthly, yearly, no 2 days or 2 routes ar ever the same.
To maximise profits each day is planned meticulously the evening before, I could leave it to the software, but if i can make an extra £20 by swapping rounds around i will.
You are right about being better organised though.
One thing i have learnt in business, is to concentrate on the bigger picture and ignore the trivial, I suppose the day to day items are the trivial.
In simple terms, My time is better spent chasing bigger contracts than sorting the trivial.
Solution -- Slow down sort the trivial, put in measures to control the trivial, then resume where I was.
I like it here, it helps me think, cheers guys for the input
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think about it being a good problem to have..............but seriously why not get a contracts manager whos sole life is to make your life easier.
you can then go out and get the bigger contracts.
I will say ts easy to give advice but haveall the problems you have but on a smaller scale.
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Ronnie
Was only talking tonight about giving one of my lads that role.
already got a full time office admin lady.
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Sounds as tho the men are working flat out and sounds as if you should work out a fixed round route so nobody gets ran ragged,including you
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so have you worked out the going sub rate and compare it with employing
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pole man guy looking for work
down yr way if yr not fixd up ova section
frequently askd questions
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only my opinion but you seem a bit stressed, why are you filling up the vans and sorting the poles??? you employ people who should be able to put petrol in the van and water in the tank as for sorting the poles!!!! what are you going to do next clean the windows for them?
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sometimes we have the 60 ft work, i only trust certain guys at that height, poles do need swapping around quite a lot.
Sometimes the guys are good at filling the vans sometimes they work long distance and low water, i might switch that around in the planning, and put them on something different. as for the juice if they have only got a 5th of a tank and i am sending them 100 miles at 6.00am and the jet garages arent open till about 7.00 in Cornwall, then we go and fill them up.
It takes time to implement procedures, you can only address things as they arise, so far didnt see it coming, now need to put in control measures.
These are things you have to think about and deal with when you expand rapiddly
Its not as easy as some of you make it sound.
Yes I am very stressed at times.
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sometimes we have the 60 ft work, i only trust certain guys at that height, poles do need swapping around quite a lot.
Sometimes the guys are good at filling the vans sometimes they work long distance and low water, i might switch that around in the planning, and put them on something different. as for the juice if they have only got a 5th of a tank and i am sending them 100 miles at 6.00am and the jet garages arent open till about 7.00 in Cornwall, then we go and fill them up.
It takes time to implement procedures, you can only address things as they arise, so far didnt see it coming, now need to put in control measures.
These are things you have to think about and deal with when you expand rapiddly
Its not as easy as some of you make it sound.
Yes I am very stressed at times.
Get the guys to fill there vans when they have finished there manual work dave, I am suprised you reley on others for water I could see that as an added headache
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good thing dave is to add to defect books to there vans.
1 for defect to equiment.
2 for defect to vans.
these most be filled out every day.by each crew.then all you need todo is look in book,find defect if any then fix defect.if not reported and they get to the job and ie pole still broke,then well that up to up what you do.
this is a most that it filled out each day and handed into who ever in the office at the end of there day.
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sometimes we have the 60 ft work, i only trust certain guys at that height, poles do need swapping around quite a lot.
Sometimes the guys are good at filling the vans sometimes they work long distance and low water, i might switch that around in the planning, and put them on something different. as for the juice if they have only got a 5th of a tank and i am sending them 100 miles at 6.00am and the jet garages arent open till about 7.00 in Cornwall, then we go and fill them up.
It takes time to implement procedures, you can only address things as they arise, so far didnt see it coming, now need to put in control measures.
These are things you have to think about and deal with when you expand rapiddly
Its not as easy as some of you make it sound.
Yes I am very stressed at times.
Which is one good reason why I've never tried it. I don't do stress very well.
I hope you find solutions Dave because stress will usually kill someone much sooner than physical work.
Why not try selling it and just keep the cream for yourself? You may even find that your current employees will want to buy it.
So less stress and probably a turnover of £50k+ a year (more if your wife is happy on the tools still). Maybe more demanding physically but a hell of a lot easier on the head - and with a tidy lump sum in the bank too.
Another way might be to accept a reduced profit and pay a manager a wage from it while taking more of a back seat yourself - possibly even with a profit sharing scheme as an incentive. It's finding the right person though. Most people with the ability will be running their own businesses. Is your business up to taking say a £30k per annum hit. It only need be temporary as you could use your time in obtaining more work and leisure pursuits.
I once heard it said that we should all have someone else's problems because we can all solve them - but never our own ;D
That's £5k for the business advice please. Cash, cheques or bank transfer all accepted :)
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I love all this advice, keep it coming
Ian
We do make our own water, the garage is located some distance from the house.
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Hi Rich, still waiting for the nod on the work
Ok mate, still got a spare week in every month, so just keep me posted.
Back to topic.
You stated that you have 3 vans on the road, which I should imagine has a crew of 2 in each?
Why not have a supervisor in each van? Pay them a bit more, and deligate some of the lesser jobs to them, and make it their job to ensure all the paperwork is signed and in order, van sorted, tidied, filled and fueled for the next day.
It might work? And it might lighten the load a bit for you??
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Dave, what happened with the Bournemouth/Poole jobs?
Cheers Dave
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Sorry to here you are stressed with things at the moment Dave.
I have been in various businesses for nearly 40 years and also have spent time studying this subject. Your problems are a classis of rapid growth when a busy move through stages of upward movement. One just has not developed they skills to cope with this growth. The growth from a small business to a middle size to large is quite common. The biggest problem is delegating reasonability and one has always dependent on yourself.
Your role from window clean and been hands on to managing people is a great jump with a different set of skills.
I would not at this point farm out to much work as you could loose control of things and will find it more difficult to set a standards practice. Rather farm out responsibility to your more experanced staff. The manager idea is a good one. The next think to see to is that this person shears your business goals and understands how you would want things, communication is all important.
Sorry mate |I am getting a little to passionate but I am sure you get the idea.
If this is of help do ash and I will see were I can help. Relax more and do some expercise, meditate ( do something you enjoy that gets your mind of work) and get some deep reading on the subject as matter of fact its always good to expand your mind quicker that one business. Easer said than n dun as things sometime happen, when you are working hard.
Just hang in there you had the ability to grow at this rate and have the ability to achieve a lot more. Good luck Richard
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Hi Wizard
wise words, you have nit the nail on the head, my wife keeps telling me to go to the docs because i keep going purple.
We have just added on a totally new arm to our business, so got stress with that too.
Will be in touch soon
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I nearly phoned him lol
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Hi dave I will take on all the work for you on sub contract basis, I would be very interested short term on the retail as need to build it in that area to keep my guys busy.
With regards to stress I cope by having the weekends to my self and working as much as needed the rest of the week, it has really helped with my stress
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Business growing pains Dave, as has already been said, you need a good manager, he/she must be,
A] polite and assertive.
B] be respected by your existing staff
C] Keep a cool head in a crises
D] be able to communicate on all levels
E] Be a good organiser
F] know your area like the back of their hand
G] Be able to see what wants doing and get it done.
If you think finding such a person is a tall order, your right, but I would start at your local police HQ, a lot of bobbies look for a job to top up their pension when they retire. An ex bobby would have most of the above attributes, and I'm sure that there must be a way of getting in contact with those near retirement age.
Just a though mate, but an ex bobby would fit the bill. [no pun intended].
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Everyone thinks meditation is sitting with your legs crossed going Hmmmmmmm
Its mental escapism!!!! The ability to removing one self mentally from the reality of day to day life. This is why kids do not stress and they fantasize and play, not just the crazy things people think up.
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By the way Dave your wife is properly rite might have a bit of blood pressure the purple face is a give away. They say one can look as if you drink to much. Check it out asap. I pill a day and al is well or drink a aspirin every morning it does help.
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Giving advice- I love this.
Well the fact is from the little i know you have a ten out of ten, and you should be advising us, but turning puce, or purple as you put it is not good.
Yes, it's growing pains, and also trying to do all that networking and show attending.
As regards the business model, if you have two vans (i assume van three is basically you) pretty much full with your own work that has to be healthy.The further away stuff, sub away. This is pretty much how you do it already, so carry on.
I like the idea that you are getting better and better kit, try and relax about how much money you are spending.In your shoes i would note that Charlie, after three generations of high end and high volume w'cleaning is still stressed.It's never going to go away.I would want to at least look at copying the spec of his vans and find out why scalability has worked so well for him.
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i think you look and sound like you are doing great dave
Just keep at it, im sure its hard at times but all work is, just tell yourself you can only do our best and as jv price says allocate time to yourself and keep it, have time for family and exercise/hobbies that work does not encroach upon
theres more to life than work at the end of the day
work to live
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To tell you the truth my life is prety damn easy, i do very litttle,
i now work with my mind now and not with my hands, for my crust, i shouldnt have to ever lift a squeegee again if i dont want to.
It's all the head tennis which drives you crazy, i think i was having the Sunday night blues ( reminder to self get drunk on Sundays)
Lifes easy, but hard at the same time.
Thanks for everyones support, you lot are brill.
Love to chat to you all some time
Dave
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Get a secretary and get on the pole !! ;)
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It's all the head tennis which drives you crazy, i think i was having the Sunday night blues ( reminder to self get drunk on Sundays)
When you have staff, Sunday evening can be the worst time of the week...will they all turn up on Monday?, will we have to re-schedule because one hasn't etc etc, then those thoughts lead to all the little things that have gone wrong in the past couple of weeks. Little things that at the time you never really noticed have now grown out of proportion and become major issues in your mind(head tennis). When we used to employ we felt like this, so we stopped scheduling work for ourselves on Mondays and made it an admin day. There was no worry about someone not turning in, in the morning, as we had cover and if they all turned up (which was a miracle if that happened) we had the admin day and marketing to do at ease, or start to do the custies for that week who didn't need phoning before. Little problems then became laughing items, which is a much nicer way to spend your Sunday evenings. I think you have hit a block Dave and in a few weeks it will all be ok, but if not why not consider a franchise like Ian Lancaster with the first offer to your existing staff, you have the basis of it already! You can then increase the franchisees you take on.
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Another thing to consider is a bigger house, with an in and an out drive, that can park a few vans and produce water etc.
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And if you do want advice on what the new systems should have as standard ask away. If you think you have all the knowledge you need on this then don't.But i would ask you to bear in mind that a guy who normally works out of a car might not know everything.
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Another thing to consider is a bigger house, with an in and an out drive, that can park a few vans and produce water etc.
That'd a good option, We are lucky to have driveway parking for 5 , but this is then a case of moving because your business said so and somewhere you have to draw the line between personal life and business. You should control your business, not let it control you. A unit may be the answer for Dave. Would suggest looking at farms that may have converted barns into industrial usage.
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Hi Helen
Getting back on track with everything, you are right about a unit, we have just about run out of space, garage full, dining room full, garden full, started encroaching on the rest of the house.
Time for a change of address
Dave
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yeah the sunday night blues, im glad im not the only one with them, as helen says, try and do the easy ones who dont need calling the night b4.
maybe you could give your staff a copy of george and let them sort their own work out?
maybe offer them a bonus for it?
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maybe you could give your staff a copy of george and let them sort their own work out?
??? jees he wants it to get better not 10 times worse ::)
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unless their absolute retards then i doubt it would the situation worse.