Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ken on March 20, 2010, 07:53:59 am

Title: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 20, 2010, 07:53:59 am
I'm in the market for a 60'ish pole for occasional jobs where working up to that height is required. So, I went to Windex on Thursday to see what my choices are. Here are my thoughts, and I would welcome any comments (within reason!)

The telescopic poles seem too heavy and way too whippy when put up to 60'. Also a bit pricey.
Unger Carbontec: seems over-engineered, and in comparison with similar poles, a bit too heavy. And crazy money!
Brodex Carbonlight: Crazy light, not a bad price at £800, comes in a decent holdall, but uses velcro straps for hose securing.
Cleaning Technology Solutions: Super light, £750, clever little hose clips on each section, no storage bag (a tube supplied for top 6 sections).
Gardiners Super-Lite: Not at the show, very light, £665+vat, storage bag.

Where to put my money? If Brodex and CTS prices are ex-vat, which I guess they are, then the Gardiners pole walks it on price. I did like the hose clips on the CTS pole, and in use that sort of detail will make all the difference.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 20, 2010, 08:47:27 am
I use an emporium (now defunct) Lovely and light but the top 6 sections all broke as they were not fit for purpose!! The clips you speak about sound a good idea but if they hold the hose too tightly then it will keep coming out if you assemble with not enough slack as the pole bends!(i made my own version of this)  Whatever you do,do not rely on any of the companies suggestions regarding stopping the poles sticking.put the poles together just enough to support each other and on the "male" part wrap a few turns of electrical tape.(this will stop the sections from compacting!When mine is finally unusable i will probably go for a gardiners.What impresses me with theirs is that you can assemble 40 foot and then lift from the floor which implies that the top sections are durable.(could not do this with mine)Have you seen the gardiners video of this?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 20, 2010, 08:49:55 am
ken,just realised that the company you mention is cleantech.They have taken over the emporium poles so unless they have improved the top sections "beware"
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Smudger on March 20, 2010, 09:05:05 am
i use an SL2 - found it to be great - it also uses the velcro straps - i usd to use these but ended up taking 20 mins to put everything together!! ::)

now i leave the hose loose and have found it works really well even over conny's - just have plenty of slack and then putting it together is quick.

i have noticed some slight 'chipping' to the carbon on the leading edges of some sections - probably me being slightly heavy handed when taking apart and putting it on the ground. :(

Darran
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 20, 2010, 09:54:19 am
I'm in the market for a 60'ish pole for occasional jobs where working up to that height is required. So, I went to Windex on Thursday to see what my choices are. Here are my thoughts, and I would welcome any comments (within reason!)

The telescopic poles seem too heavy and way too whippy when put up to 60'. Also a bit pricey.
Unger Carbontec: seems over-engineered, and in comparison with similar poles, a bit too heavy. And crazy money!
Brodex Carbonlight: Crazy light, not a bad price at £800, comes in a decent holdall, but uses velcro straps for hose securing.
Cleaning Technology Solutions: Super light, £750, clever little hose clips on each section, no storage bag (a tube supplied for top 6 sections).
Gardiners Super-Lite: Not at the show, very light, £665+vat, storage bag.

Where to put my money? If Brodex and CTS prices are ex-vat, which I guess they are, then the Gardiners pole walks it on price. I did like the hose clips on the CTS pole, and in use that sort of detail will make all the difference.

Thoughts?


Those prices ARE ex-vat. ;)

I had the same choice a few weeks ago, Needed 60ft for a particular job + other high work. I opted for Gardiners.

Not used it yet though as the job is not 'till end of march.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: williamx on March 20, 2010, 10:47:52 am
You also have to look at the cost of replacements sections, I have broken 2 of the sl2 sections so far.

and the most important factor is the availability of the pole and spares if needed.

If you have to wait for a pole or section, you could end up losing the job to someone who is available to clean the windows straightaway.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 20, 2010, 10:52:39 am
You also have to look at the cost of replacements sections, I have broken 2 of the sl2 sections so far.

and the most important factor is the availability of the pole and spares if needed.

If you have to wait for a pole or section, you could end up losing the job to someone who is available to clean the windows straightaway.

Had the pole up in the garden Hydro, see what you mean about wind!!! :o :o :o ;D
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Susan @ MB Window Cleaning on March 20, 2010, 10:56:54 am
I would have liked to have seen Gardiner at Windex, Matt is interested in the CTS pole but I'd like to see the Gardiner pole first as I'm not convinced that the CTS pole is the right one to get.  I admit the CTS pole is amazingly light! but without seeing the Gardiner 56' pole, I wouldn't like to buy the CTS pole only to wonder if the Gardiner pole would have been better

It would have been good to have compared them side by side  :D

Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 20, 2010, 11:06:18 am
You also have to look at the cost of replacements sections, I have broken 2 of the sl2 sections so far.

and the most important factor is the availability of the pole and spares if needed.

If you have to wait for a pole or section, you could end up losing the job to someone who is available to clean the windows straightaway.

Is that in heavy daily use, or occasional use, or...?

I would probably use it on 3 jobs a month at most (but they pay well enough to make it a worthwhile investment!) I am also quite "gentle" with kit, particularly kit that cost £800.

Realistically, I think it will be the Gardiner pole, although I see there is a 2 week wait for delivery at the moment so I'll have to get my order in sharpish as I'll need it the first week of May.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: williamx on March 20, 2010, 11:07:44 am
I would have liked to have seen Gardiner at Windex, Matt is interested in the CTS pole but I'd like to see the Gardiner pole first as I'm not convinced that the CTS pole is the right one to get.  I admit the CTS pole is amazingly light! but without seeing the Gardiner 56' pole, I wouldn't like to buy the CTS pole only to wonder if the Gardiner pole would have been better

It would have been good to have compared them side by side  :D



They are the same
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 20, 2010, 11:09:58 am
Susan, you could always have a holiday business trip to St. Austell to check out the Gardiners pole!
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Susan @ MB Window Cleaning on March 20, 2010, 11:15:06 am
LOL sounds like an excellent idea, it wouldn't take much to persuade Matt to go down to St Austell! Might wait a few months for the temperature to go up!

Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: williamx on March 20, 2010, 11:15:52 am
You also have to look at the cost of replacements sections, I have broken 2 of the sl2 sections so far.

and the most important factor is the availability of the pole and spares if needed.

If you have to wait for a pole or section, you could end up losing the job to someone who is available to clean the windows straightaway.

Is that in heavy daily use, or occasional use, or...?

I would probably use it on 3 jobs a month at most (but they pay well enough to make it a worthwhile investment!) I am also quite "gentle" with kit, particularly kit that cost £800.

Realistically, I think it will be the Gardiner pole, although I see there is a 2 week wait for delivery at the moment so I'll have to get my order in sharpish as I'll need it the first week of May.

The 1st one broke after I had used it about 4 times, it was the number 4 section and it snapped in half while I was cleaning some dorma windows at about 40' in height.

The second one was snapping a inch of the end on the 3rd section when I was assembling the poles together
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 20, 2010, 11:21:50 am
The 1st one broke after I had used it about 4 times, it was the number 4 section and it snapped in half while I was cleaning some dorma windows at about 40' in height.

The second one was snapping a inch of the end on the 3rd section when I was assembling the poles together

Hmmm...

Is that going to be the case whichever company you use. I imagine the poles all come from the same place, there can't be loads of companies churning them out? Do Gardiners have a warranty/replacement policy?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: williamx on March 20, 2010, 11:47:44 am
I not saying its gardiners fault they broke, it happens, but you do need to look at the replacements costs when you are buying the pole in the first place.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 20, 2010, 12:44:50 pm
I dont know why they dont just make all of the sections like the(in my case)the stronger no7 sections?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: wightsurf on March 20, 2010, 01:17:12 pm
I have had the emporium pole 45ft , and it's still going strong.
I take care of it though and no rough handling.
The main reason i wish i had bought another pole was this company has gone bust, so no sections avalible but i know that some modular fishing pole sections fit it as i think Jeff was kind enough to point out.

The gardinas pole i think also uses velcro straps for the hose. don't think this would matter to me as i twist the pole as i add sections , so the hose goes round the pole.

The main issue with poles at hieght is wind. Anything over F4 and i use more engery fighting the wind than cleaning the windows. I think a pole a bit heavyer
May be of use to me. The winter is worst , on the sea front it .
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 20, 2010, 06:17:53 pm
Wightsurf.cleantech have taken over the emporium poles and i understand from previous posts that they are exactly the same spec,so are direct replacements.I dont bother with anything less than section no7 to get me back to 60 foot.( i have scourced these from other emporium ex users)
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: wightsurf on March 20, 2010, 06:25:54 pm
Thanks stevieg for that info.
I did wonder when i read they had taken over if it was the same spec.
Any idea of prices on no7 section ?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 21, 2010, 09:33:31 am
Hi I can only give a price for the no7 section as that was the only one i wanted and they are about £85 plus delivery!
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: thermoclean on March 21, 2010, 03:37:15 pm
hi all just to let you know that cts at the windex show is not cleantech they were working along with them on
a few projects but have now went there seperate ways.

as regards the pole many changes have been made to strengthen the pole and with the hose clips we believe
it is the best pole to use at 40 plus feet at the moment. however i agree with wrightsurf that a slightly heavier
pole may be better as i to have used both the cts pole and sl2 on sea front hotels and it can be hard work in
the wind ( not as hard work as a carbon facelift mind).

stevieg the section 7 is the most expensive to make and is £70 plus vat at the moment

as regards the price cts will price match to gardiners or brodex prices on a like for like basis and spare sections are
readily available.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 21, 2010, 05:34:35 pm
Hi Thermoclean i would be interested how you have improved the top 3or 4 sections.In my opinion as i have previously stated the old ones were" unfit for purpose"Until i get a satisfactory answer there is no way that i am going to shell out for replacements as i have gone down that route before!Ps. is there a technical reason(apart from the cost)why the total pole could not just be made up of no 7 sections?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: dai on March 21, 2010, 06:06:40 pm
Thermoclean, Can you tell us the wall thickness on the number 3 section please.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Dennis Taylor on March 21, 2010, 07:47:58 pm
Hi chaps,
I've bought one of these poles ( 42' ) and i am very impressed, i have never fancied a modular pole but having tried a friends out, i decided it was the way to go.
The pole is very well made, very stiff and above all very light.
It came with 2 carbon fibre goosenecks ( one to get over deep sills ) and a 4 jet lightweight brush.
My only gripe was that a couple of sections became stuck together and were a real pig to get apart, this has been solved by assembling the pole normally and then wrapping 3 turns of electrical tape under each joint.
This stops them compacting and becoming stuck together.
I have used it about 8 times in the last month and have found that it saves several minutes per house so i either get finished earlier or do an extra job or 2 over the whole day.
These are just my thoughts and i can't comment on any other pole as i haven't tried them, except for a Facelift, which, whilst it is a solid well made pole, it certainly makes you tired by the end of the day.

Dennis
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 22, 2010, 07:34:44 am
I'm definitely going to get one of these poles, time to email the three companies (that I know of) who supply them and see what deals are being done.

Stay tuned!
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: cleantech.co.uk on March 22, 2010, 11:24:09 am
Cleantech are doing replacement No 7 sections at £76.50
This pole has been re-worked since the demise of Emporium.
No1 section has been beefed up
Look at info on the pole to see other improvements
Despite rumours on other forums, Cleantech are the only distributor,
and this pole is not made for anyone else, it is exclusive to ourselves.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 22, 2010, 04:23:26 pm
Only the No 1 section!!!!!!!!!!!Oh dear.Go for the Gardiners if i were you.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: wightsurf on March 22, 2010, 04:52:13 pm
Stevig
Did you have the earlier pole or one of the last made, as i have not had any issues with it. I treat it with care but use it as i would use most poles and have had no probs with it.
It gets used on 40 /45ft work not gone any higher with it.
I don't use it everyday on the domestics, it only comes out on larger jobs a couple times a month although one job it gets work solid all day.
Must be coming up for 2 yrs old now, have to check on that mind.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 22, 2010, 06:13:42 pm
I presume it was a later one as they stopped trading just after i got it!!!!!!!
because no advice came re:sticking sections i had trouble from the off and getting the sections apart started all the problems with breakages!
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: wightsurf on March 22, 2010, 07:33:45 pm
to be honest i don't think it matters what modular you got when it comes to sticky sections . I use Jeffs tape idea.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: stevieg on March 22, 2010, 07:38:04 pm
I do now,but that was after all different suggestions came to nothing!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Jeff Brimble on March 22, 2010, 07:50:29 pm
All makes of modular tips can suffer from tiny chips that can then form cracks, I have some pics on camera but cannot post them until my normal Laptop is repaired.The butt rings help prevent dammage to the bases.There is a simple way to strengthen all Modular tips that would cost you about £30 and as soon as I am able to I will post details.

Meanwhile my simple  tape trick works to prevent compression lock up.

ps.  Would somebody mind beating my World Record of 88ft-2" with the Emporium as I am almost ready to go for 100ft  with it, ....as soon as  8)
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: wightsurf on March 22, 2010, 08:02:23 pm
I think you should youtube it.
I would like to see that in action. I bet you want do that on a windy day  ;D
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Jeff Brimble on March 22, 2010, 08:10:28 pm
No not utubes ...helium balloons  ;D  ;D ...joking !
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Jeff Brimble on March 23, 2010, 05:05:15 am
This is from the topic over on Matts excellent  diy forum bit old March 2008 but has the basics of how to strengthen the tips of any mod pole. As I mentioned will update it later. Its called "Modular pole wear"

I call this "How to lifeproof your pole" You can see that in the top picture that after 4 years of daily use and abuse the F16 is looking a bit worn on the joints, cracks, chips, splits. The constant making and removing the joints has a pencil sharpener effect and wears the outside face of the pole really thin. What to do ? well my answer is to put a reinforcing washer on the inside of the section which will reinforce the tips. I have been using this for a year now and it works ! Its difficult to write up but a lot easier to do. Basically just cut some new tips from thw spare sections of your unwanted glass fibre Zensorflex sections and slide down inside to the tips so that they protude. Should have done it from new but 4 years ago didnt have the insight that experience can only give you. More later.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/DSCF1902.jpg)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/DSCF1905.jpg)
Having cut your inserts simply slide them down to the tip and stick them in place, I used model airoplane glue, the blue one and the one to the left of it has been done and is easier to see, inside the pole is approx 2-2 1/2" of the new washer or whatever you want to call it.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/DSCF0958.jpg)
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy) on March 23, 2010, 07:09:48 am
Cleantech are doing replacement No 7 sections at £76.50
This pole has been re-worked since the demise of Emporium.
No1 section has been beefed up
Look at info on the pole to see other improvements
Despite rumours on other forums, Cleantech are the only distributor,
and this pole is not made for anyone else, it is exclusive to ourselves.

having used the cleantech ultra lite now for a month now i can honestly say that it is a brilliant bit of kit......the fact that you can clip the hose on and off very quickly is a great design feature in my opinion.....i know alex has the velcro tapes and they are good but takes a bit longer to dismantle the poles......so for time saving and ease of use i reckon the cleantech is just ahead of gardiners.....although gardiners have been around a lot longer and have built up a solid reputation in the industry..........both alex and the guys at cleantech have an after sales service that is second to none so i wouldnt worry about comparing the two on that basis.

but for ease of use i reckon you should at least give cleantech a shot. 8)
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 23, 2010, 07:41:44 am
At the moment, Gardiners have it on price, at £781, Cleantech are £810 and Brodex are asking £1050!
I like the little protector rings on the Gardiners pole, but I also like the hose clips on Cleantech's offering, although simply wrapping the hose round the pole as you assemble it won't be too much of an issue, I reckon.

Further mulling to follow!
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: cleantech.co.uk on March 24, 2010, 09:15:23 am
Please check prices again, the 62ft cleantech is £770
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: ian1972 on March 24, 2010, 01:03:17 pm
is that £770 plus vat so thats £904?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Ken on March 24, 2010, 03:17:38 pm
Hi there Cleantech, I had an email from Scott quoting me £690+vat, which I calculate to be £810, although your warranty is for 12 months and not 6 like Gardiners...
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy) on March 25, 2010, 07:38:01 pm
def go for cleantech guys.....why?.....i did my very 1st 75 foot job today with the cleantechs....i had to add 30 odd feet of course using my mavers (alex's) but at 75 feet the fragile end of the pole is the top 20-30 feet and i promise you i had no problems with the cleantech ultralite.....brilliant. 8)
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Jeff Brimble on March 25, 2010, 08:14:45 pm
As you know Scrimmy , Alan had it designed originally to be a 100ft pole, its just misuse that causes breakages as with any thin wall mod pole.
Well done.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: simon w on March 26, 2010, 07:00:34 pm
def go for cleantech guys.....why?.....i did my very 1st 75 foot job today with the cleantechs....i had to add 30 odd feet of course using my mavers (alex's) but at 75 feet the fragile end of the pole is the top 20-30 feet and i promise you i had no problems with the cleantech ultralite.....brilliant. 8)
Hi Scrimmy.

I'm just trying to decide on which modular pole to buy and it's been narrowed down to Gardiners SL2 62 footer or Cleantechs Ultralite 62 footer.

Did you get yours supplied with Cleantechs new 12" brush if so are they any good and how do they compare to Gardiners super light brushes? have you had any problems with sections getting stuck? Think I might go with the 62FT Ultralight and fit it with  one of Gardiners superlight brush heads.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 26, 2010, 07:39:03 pm
Used my sl2 for the first time on tuesday. Very light & rigid. Much stronger than it appears too. No trouble lifting it up from the ground at 35 & 40ft.

Will be using it at 60ft next week. ;)
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Topclean on March 26, 2010, 07:41:36 pm
ive had my cleantech ultra light to 75ft today a lot more manageable than i thought,
however iv only had it a couple of months and already broken section 4 and 5. ive now fixed both sections with a glass fibre kit, and also strenthened all overlaps from 1 -6. hope this helps

also ive not had any problems with sections sticking although it can be a two man job sometimes.

my opinion, now iv strenthened the joints is its a really good pole.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 26, 2010, 07:45:36 pm
Does the cleantech pole have base protection on each section like the sl2?

Topclean- how did you break the sections?
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Topclean on March 26, 2010, 08:22:07 pm
yes were the hose clips on, there is a rubber base protecter, its good saves the ends from getting bashed about.

as for braking the sections, number 5 section broke whilst lifting off the window from an angle, in my opinion not a breaking angle. makes me wonder if there may have been a slight crack in it prior.

as for section 4 my own fault, whilst putting the pole up i was rushing and didnt slot it in fully, lifting off i heard and crack and that was that, however as stated i repaired this by stuffing loads of glass fibre inside the top join. This has sorted the problem as today was using the pole at height all day and it was fine.

dont let this put you off, it is a really good pole and so light.
Title: Re: Modular Carbon poles
Post by: Jeff Brimble on March 26, 2010, 08:22:58 pm
ive had my cleantech ultra light to 75ft today a lot more manageable than i thought,
however iv only had it a couple of months and already broken section 4 and 5. ive now fixed both sections with a glass fibre kit, and also strenthened all overlaps from 1 -6. hope this helps

also ive not had any problems with sections sticking although it can be a two man job sometimes.

my opinion, now iv strenthened the joints is its a really good pole.
How did you break 4 and 5 ? Yes it does have  base protectors and it still stacks neatly within itself .