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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 16, 2010, 11:36:30 pm

Title: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 16, 2010, 11:36:30 pm
If you think more regulation is required with our industry or not please vote.
Just interested in the response from fellow window cleaners.





Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: drwindows on March 16, 2010, 11:42:49 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: daz1977 on March 16, 2010, 11:49:54 pm
to be honest, i can see the day that u will need a licence in england, and to get that u will need ur NVQ,  insurance etc
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: paul rulton on March 16, 2010, 11:52:20 pm
as long as it dont cost anything & u aint gotta sit on a crap course ;D
if u ave then they can poke it :-X
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: paul rulton on March 16, 2010, 11:57:12 pm
to be honest, i can see the day that u will need a licence in england, and to get that u will need ur NVQ,  insurance etc
they can shove that rite where the sun dont shine ;)
i tell u now i 4 1 will never do it >:( so i will b elegal hehe ;D oh i can live wiv that ;D
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: ian1972 on March 17, 2010, 07:15:31 am
Its not going to happen guys they might bring a licence in but it just b to get more money out of the working class and not to stop cowboys as for banning ladders they are supposed to b for access not working off.but as a shiner is up and down quicker than some birds knickers I can see it happening
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: lee09 on March 17, 2010, 07:25:38 am
Morning.
What makes you think or how will regulation stop the dole cheats or cowboys.
There will alway be people who turn a blind eye and employ these people.

I lost one the other day because their son had lost his job and he has a family to support, so they were going to pay him. Is he a cowboy or dole cheat?

All I know is while I am paying to be regulated, there will always be these people.

Lee
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 17, 2010, 08:08:38 am
Instead of saying "it wont be regulated" why not give some suggestions of HOW it could or should be regulated.





Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: ian1972 on March 17, 2010, 08:20:56 am
That's a hard 1 to b honest as I can't see how it would b done and enforced propprely and fairly.and reading some of the posts about licencing in Scotland it doesn't seem to work.I really don't mean to b negative about just can't see how except on commercial work
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Nathanael Jones on March 17, 2010, 08:21:35 am
Dole cheats should be regulated without a doubt, but I wouldn't want any new regulations costing existing/established/honest cleaners any time, money or paperwork related stress.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: AuRavelling79 on March 17, 2010, 08:26:36 am
Council officers have got more important things to worry about - you know the sort of thing - how to support a focus group to encompass transvestite care in the community and how to set up a steering group to discuss child development on St. Helena.

The Police can't even stop a disabled woman and her child being bullied to death so they aren't gonna be interested.

Regulation for windies is a complete waste of time. We're cleaners for goodness sake!
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 17, 2010, 09:03:40 am
Steveo I still use trad on some windows, I am not starting a Trad/WFP war.
All I am looking at is what percentage of Window cleaners on here want or dont want more regulation within the trade.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for guys starting up within the industry and fully understand that they can only afford Trad gear and use their own cars.
Thats how I started out, but when you have guys on benefits coming out when the sunshines and only charging £3-4 for a 3 bed semi and they have no PL insurance and have no respect for customers or their property it gives us all a very bad name.



Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: steveo22 on March 17, 2010, 09:07:58 am
Those people won't last, if they mess around at customers houses and do a bad job then its only a matter of time before they get the boot. If every window cleaner was as professional and dedicated as ourselves then that would be the time to worry!!
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Central Window Cleaners on March 17, 2010, 09:17:12 am
I think our industry should be regulated or licensed but I do not think it would be policed well enough.

Scotland have a licensing system already and from what i understand this does not stop the cowboys as it is not policed properly.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: michael papworth on March 17, 2010, 09:45:11 am
Council officers have got more important things to worry about - you know the sort of thing - how to support a focus group to encompass transvestite care in the community and how to set up a steering group to discuss child development on St. Helena.

The Police can't even stop a disabled woman and her child being bullied to death so they aren't gonna be interested.

Regulation for windies is a complete waste of time. We're cleaners for goodness sake!

Thank you for that. A bit of perspective is useful now and again.

The problem is that the government might just see that regulating window cleaners sits well with parking enforcement, smoking in public buildings regulation enforcement and closing care homes - those other vital council responsibilities.

You'd then be getting letters from your local "Senior Fenestration Maintenance Operators Regulation Administrative Assistant" urging you to pay your licensing fees by direct debit monthly to avoid fines for late payment.


Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 09:51:24 am
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 17, 2010, 10:00:26 am
I think it will too formb, but we have to have it on a national license not a county one.


Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 10:14:29 am
to be honest, i can see the day that u will need a licence in england, and to get that u will need ur NVQ,  insurance etc

We don't need NVQs etc. But we do need insurance + a police check.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 10:17:24 am
as long as it dont cost anything & u aint gotta sit on a crap course ;D
if u ave then they can poke it :-X

We pay £150 for 5 years. It is almost a good idea as it puts off wannabes especially this time of year but, you only have to prove you are insured at the start of the term. I personally send a copy of my insurance in every year.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 10:21:38 am
I think our industry should be regulated or licensed but I do not think it would be policed well enough.

Scotland have a licensing system already and from what i understand this does not stop the cowboys as it is not policed properly.

If some f***er undercuts you and nicks your customer without a license you can report the slimey little dole cheat.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: amayze on March 17, 2010, 12:59:23 pm
Perhaps one answer, would be to look at other sectors, such as Gassafe, which took over from Corgi. Everyone knew that a gas engineer, should be corgi registered. If you didn't ask the question, then more fool you.

Part of the problem is that has an industry we don't have a truly registered trade association. A body that promotes the industry in a positiive light, aims to reduce poor practice and raises public awareness, for all suppliers, providers and customers.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 01:04:49 pm
Perhaps one answer, would be to look at other sectors, such as Gassafe, which took over from Corgi. Everyone knew that a gas engineer, should be corgi registered. If you didn't ask the question, then more fool you.

Part of the problem is that has an industry we don't have a truly registered trade association. A body that promotes the industry in a positiive light, aims to reduce poor practice and raises public awareness, for all suppliers, providers and customers.

Thats not really the issue for me. Generally if someone is unhappy with their windows they just won't pay. Corgi & Gassafe is more for safety Someone could fit your boiler leave and then months later you find out he ballsed it up when you wake up dead.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: StanA on March 17, 2010, 01:15:26 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 02:45:14 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.


The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Ian Mason on March 17, 2010, 03:26:47 pm
I agree with you 100% Matt with your post on the other thread regarding a national licence, as opposed to local council run thing.

I think it would deter many a cowboy dole cheat, if they had to show say a record of trading, or face a hefty fine.

I think it would be beneficial to all who trade legit, whatever their method of working.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: michael papworth on March 17, 2010, 04:21:34 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.


The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

And you approve of something that is entirely down to police discretion? How can you be so naive?

And do you really believe that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

No. Anything administered by unaccountable jobsworths is going to cause trouble. It's in the nature of policemen, council officials (and primary headteachers) to make utterly stupid decisions based on their own wrong-headed interpretation of regulations.

Don't believe me?

* Police using terrorism legislation on pensioners. Police wanting to ban the Bulldog Bash on the chief constable's whim.

* Councils using RIPA powers to chase pushy parents. Prosecuting a couple for having noisy sex.

(* Headteachers banning conkers, home-made cakes and sports days.)

Licences will just be another layer of power given to another bunch of council idiots to drive up the public sector wage bill to no good effect.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: StanA on March 17, 2010, 05:58:18 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.


The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

It does make sense but I still believe that licensing across the board is overkill.  Living on the borders of three counties, I am very unwilling to pay three license fees.  If I am deemed a fit person to clean windows in one county then I am fit to clean them in another.  Just consider whether every door to door salesperson needs a license.  Or every canvasser (for ANY trade).  Or the guy who delivers fish from door to door.  Or all the milkmen (there are still some left).
IMO the only reason window cleaners have been singled out is because many dodgy characters pretend to be window cleaners when they are up to no good.  Sometimes they pretend to be water company officials but they tend to be employees anyway so don't incur any cost.  There are other reasons I'm anti but I'm not going into all that right now.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: StanA on March 17, 2010, 06:00:04 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.


The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

And you approve of something that is entirely down to police discretion? How can you be so naive?

And do you really believe that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

No. Anything administered by unaccountable jobsworths is going to cause trouble. It's in the nature of policemen, council officials (and primary headteachers) to make utterly stupid decisions based on their own wrong-headed interpretation of regulations.

Don't believe me?

* Police using terrorism legislation on pensioners. Police wanting to ban the Bulldog Bash on the chief constable's whim.

* Councils using RIPA powers to chase pushy parents. Prosecuting a couple for having noisy sex.

(* Headteachers banning conkers, home-made cakes and sports days.)

Licences will just be another layer of power given to another bunch of council idiots to drive up the public sector wage bill to no good effect.

I could add to what Wally has written but he says it better than I  :)
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: williamx on March 17, 2010, 06:06:10 pm
I do not think that a licencing scheme will work, the way that the dog licence was dropped by the goverment this week.

The main reason is that the people who the licence is targeted at will not give a damm and that then makes the licence useless.

BUT if you insist on a licence then make one which has some power to it, for example.

There is only one licence that covers the whole of the UK.

The licence fee should be set at the rate it costs to regulate it, it should not be used to generate cash as a tax.

There should be a minimum charge that all uk window cleaners should charge, this I would reccomend at £8 to £10.

All cleaners must have Insurance.

All cleaners must undertake a heath and safety awareness course.

All ladder uses must hold a seperate licence which is renewed every 5 years, the same way that cleaners who use cherry pickers must be Ipac licenced.

All ladders must undergo a mot every year.

All wfp water tanks must be secured in the back of their vans, they also must be baffled.

Landline telephone numbers must be used on all stationary and vechicles.

You licence must be displayed so anyone can see that it is current.

Your licence can be suspended or cancelled if you bully either you customers or other cleaners who move onto "Your Patch".

These are just a few thing that I would like to see, there are properly many others rules that other cleaners have in mind as well.


 
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 06:07:24 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.


The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

It does make sense but I still believe that licensing across the board is overkill.  Living on the borders of three counties, I am very unwilling to pay three license fees.  If I am deemed a fit person to clean windows in one county then I am fit to clean them in another.  Just consider whether every door to door salesperson needs a license.  Or every canvasser (for ANY trade).  Or the guy who delivers fish from door to door.  Or all the milkmen (there are still some left).
IMO the only reason window cleaners have been singled out is because many dodgy characters pretend to be window cleaners when they are up to no good.  Sometimes they pretend to be water company officials but they tend to be employees anyway so don't incur any cost.  There are other reasons I'm anti but I'm not going into all that right now.

Everything you mention there is a minority. I am no angel and have a police record. I also employ a few lads who have been in trouble in the past. The police see it as a good thing that they are working and help us where they can.

I admit it is not perfect and is open to abuse from the police.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 06:09:30 pm
Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.


The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

It does make sense but I still believe that licensing across the board is overkill.  Living on the borders of three counties, I am very unwilling to pay three license fees.  If I am deemed a fit person to clean windows in one county then I am fit to clean them in another.  Just consider whether every door to door salesperson needs a license.  Or every canvasser (for ANY trade).  Or the guy who delivers fish from door to door.  Or all the milkmen (there are still some left).
IMO the only reason window cleaners have been singled out is because many dodgy characters pretend to be window cleaners when they are up to no good.  Sometimes they pretend to be water company officials but they tend to be employees anyway so don't incur any cost.  There are other reasons I'm anti but I'm not going into all that right now.

I work in 2 counties on 1 license without any problem
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: daz1977 on March 17, 2010, 06:10:54 pm
good points hydro

like hydros says, it wont stop the ones it is meant to,  if they every bring in a licence, they will probably only enforce it on big commercial jobs, in the public sector,  as i dont think mr chip shop owner will care less if you was licensed or not, as long as you where


Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 06:13:16 pm

Quote

And you approve of something that is entirely down to police discretion? How can you be so naive?

And do you really believe that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

No. Anything administered by unaccountable jobsworths is going to cause trouble. It's in the nature of policemen, council officials (and primary headteachers) to make utterly stupid decisions based on their own wrong-headed interpretation of regulations.

Don't believe me?

* Police using terrorism legislation on pensioners. Police wanting to ban the Bulldog Bash on the chief constable's whim.

* Councils using RIPA powers to chase pushy parents. Prosecuting a couple for having noisy sex.

(* Headteachers banning conkers, home-made cakes and sports days.)

Licences will just be another layer of power given to another bunch of council idiots to drive up the public sector wage bill to no good effect.
Quote

Naive?

I have been licensed for 10 years. There are many subjects which I may well be naive about.

This is not one of them
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 17, 2010, 06:17:34 pm
I do not think that a licencing scheme will work, the way that the dog licence was dropped by the goverment this week.

The main reason is that the people who the licence is targeted at will not give a damm and that then makes the licence useless.

BUT if you insist on a licence then make one which has some power to it, for example.

There is only one licence that covers the whole of the UK.

The licence fee should be set at the rate it costs to regulate it, it should not be used to generate cash as a tax.

There should be a minimum charge that all uk window cleaners should charge, this I would reccomend at £8 to £10.

All cleaners must have Insurance.

All cleaners must undertake a heath and safety awareness course.

All ladder uses must hold a seperate licence which is renewed every 5 years, the same way that cleaners who use cherry pickers must be Ipac licenced.

All ladders must undergo a mot every year.

All wfp water tanks must be secured in the back of their vans, they also must be baffled.

Landline telephone numbers must be used on all stationary and vechicles.

You licence must be displayed so anyone can see that it is current.

Your licence can be suspended or cancelled if you bully either you customers or other cleaners who move onto "Your Patch".

These are just a few thing that I would like to see, there are properly many others rules that other cleaners have in mind as well.

I agree with most of your points.

We have used licenses to our advantage though.

I have seen it enforced, first hand.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: martinsadie on March 17, 2010, 07:40:15 pm
theres nothing wrong with how things are now,i cant believe how upset people get about dole cheats just report them ,a lot of people dont agree with the patch system but we dont have a problem with dole cheats
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: rg1 on March 17, 2010, 08:33:59 pm
Why should we be licensed and have to pay a yearly subscription when the root of the problem is with guys cheating the dole system?

They are the ones that need monitoring..not us!
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: windowswashed on March 17, 2010, 10:11:05 pm
There's a benefit cheat hotline for dole w/c's. It doesn't stop them earning fAgs and booze money so where's the point in us paying extra hidden charges being regulated as it won't give us any new advantages in practice over dole cheats.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 18, 2010, 10:07:54 pm
I do not think that a licencing scheme will work, the way that the dog licence was dropped by the goverment this week.

The main reason is that the people who the licence is targeted at will not give a damm and that then makes the licence useless.

BUT if you insist on a licence then make one which has some power to it, for example.

There is only one licence that covers the whole of the UK.

The licence fee should be set at the rate it costs to regulate it, it should not be used to generate cash as a tax.

There should be a minimum charge that all uk window cleaners should charge, this I would reccomend at £8 to £10.

All cleaners must have Insurance.

All cleaners must undertake a heath and safety awareness course.

All ladder uses must hold a seperate licence which is renewed every 5 years, the same way that cleaners who use cherry pickers must be Ipac licenced.

All ladders must undergo a mot every year.

All wfp water tanks must be secured in the back of their vans, they also must be baffled.

Landline telephone numbers must be used on all stationary and vechicles.

You licence must be displayed so anyone can see that it is current.

Your licence can be suspended or cancelled if you bully either you customers or other cleaners who move onto "Your Patch".

These are just a few thing that I would like to see, there are properly many others rules that other cleaners have in mind as well.


 


Great response, giving ideas on how we can approch this matter is very helpful.




Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Steve_c on March 19, 2010, 12:21:08 pm
Funny thing Matt we had a very long chat with Craig about this yesterday, i for one would welcome regulation and a strict licensing scheme. It can only benefit the genuine trader. Your looking not so ugly today Matt..lol
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 19, 2010, 12:25:33 pm
Funny thing Matt we had a very long chat with Craig about this yesterday, i for one would welcome regulation and a strict licensing scheme. It can only benefit the genuine trader. Your looking not so ugly today Matt..lol

Here in Scotland it is not very strict. I have been asked to produce my license only once in over 10 years but, if you see someone operating without one you can grass the f***er up and he will get arrested.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: rg1 on March 19, 2010, 02:47:51 pm
Funny thing Matt we had a very long chat with Craig about this yesterday, i for one would welcome regulation and a strict licensing scheme. It can only benefit the genuine trader. Your looking not so ugly today Matt..lol

Here in Scotland it is not very strict. I have been asked to produce my license only once in over 10 years but, if you see someone operating without one you can grass the f***er up and he will get arrested.


You can grass on dole cheats but usually there is very little or no response from the authorities
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: rg1 on March 19, 2010, 02:51:15 pm
I dont see the point of being regulated. Who will monitor those without a license?

If someone wants to break the law, they will whether we are regulated or not.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 19, 2010, 05:15:26 pm
I dont see the point of being regulated. Who will monitor those without a license?

If someone wants to break the law, they will whether we are regulated or not.

What's to stop you doing it? I know you can grass up dole cheats, fire men, oil workers for not paying tax or having insurance but that is not really a police issue.

If they are cleaning windows without a license they are directly breaking a written law no arguments. They will be arrested. Simples  :)
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: sparklebright on March 19, 2010, 05:45:02 pm
Sadly I think it wouldn't make any difference.
Some people will care that their windy is licenced, many will not as long as he is cheap.

Look at how many people use someone who they KNOW is a dole cheat, or who will almost wink at you when they pay cash assuming you are not going to declare it.

It won't stop the cheats, it won't stop the dodgy people because as in Scotland it will not be enforced properly.

I could be wrong, how many people have been prosecuted under the Scottish rules, does anyone know? If its loads then I am wrong, but I bet it's not.
End of rant
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 19, 2010, 05:47:43 pm
Sadly I think it wouldn't make any difference.
Some people will care that their windy is licenced, many will not as long as he is cheap.

Look at how many people use someone who they KNOW is a dole cheat, or who will almost wink at you when they pay cash assuming you are not going to declare it.

It won't stop the cheats, it won't stop the dodgy people because as in Scotland it will not be enforced properly.

I could be wrong, how many people have been prosecuted under the Scottish rules, does anyone know? If its loads then I am wrong, but I bet it's not.
End of rant

I personally know 3 people who have been arrested for cleaning windows without a license.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: sparklebright on March 19, 2010, 05:51:00 pm
Sadly I think it wouldn't make any difference.
Some people will care that their windy is licenced, many will not as long as he is cheap.

Look at how many people use someone who they KNOW is a dole cheat, or who will almost wink at you when they pay cash assuming you are not going to declare it.

It won't stop the cheats, it won't stop the dodgy people because as in Scotland it will not be enforced properly.

I could be wrong, how many people have been prosecuted under the Scottish rules, does anyone know? If its loads then I am wrong, but I bet it's not.
End of rant

I personally know 3 people who have been arrested for cleaning windows without a license.
Really? That is interesting. If it is enforced then a licence might work, but if someone is willing to be a benefit cheat it wouldn't stop them. I don't know I am all conflicted now  ;D
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 19, 2010, 06:05:08 pm
Sadly I think it wouldn't make any difference.
Some people will care that their windy is licenced, many will not as long as he is cheap.

Look at how many people use someone who they KNOW is a dole cheat, or who will almost wink at you when they pay cash assuming you are not going to declare it.

It won't stop the cheats, it won't stop the dodgy people because as in Scotland it will not be enforced properly.

I could be wrong, how many people have been prosecuted under the Scottish rules, does anyone know? If its loads then I am wrong, but I bet it's not.
End of rant

I personally know 3 people who have been arrested for cleaning windows without a license.
Really? That is interesting. If it is enforced then a licence might work, but if someone is willing to be a benefit cheat it wouldn't stop them. I don't know I am all conflicted now  ;D

The police don't go following window cleaners harassing them to produce a license but, if they recieve a complaint they will follow it up.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: rg1 on March 19, 2010, 07:35:23 pm
That maybe the case in Scotland, but in England, I doubt that the police would 'Have Time' to respond to illegal window cleaners.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: martinsadie on March 19, 2010, 08:39:51 pm
last thing on the polices list would be window cleaners
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 19, 2010, 11:37:06 pm
That maybe the case in Scotland, but in England, I doubt that the police would 'Have Time' to respond to illegal window cleaners.


They wont need the time, they will just pass that case on to the benefit office and revenue and customs. It will be these guys who press charges.




Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: geoffreyspecht on March 19, 2010, 11:45:06 pm
no
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: martinsadie on March 20, 2010, 01:11:29 pm
That maybe the case in Scotland, but in England, I doubt that the police would 'Have Time' to respond to illegal window cleaners.
why should we pay a fee so they can be screwed rather leave things as they are


They wont need the time, they will just pass that case on to the benefit office and revenue and customs. It will be these guys who press charges.




Matt

Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: formb on March 20, 2010, 01:22:58 pm
That maybe the case in Scotland, but in England, I doubt that the police would 'Have Time' to respond to illegal window cleaners.

What you think we have less crime up here in Bonnie Scotland?
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: keith b on March 23, 2010, 10:29:51 am

Why don`t the window cleaners on this forum think about contacting your local councils to introduce a reliable trading company scheme.

Associate members could all agree to carry public liability insurance and a CRB checks.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: daz1977 on March 23, 2010, 10:36:48 am
its ok bringing in all these regs,  but how do u stop the cowboys, most will risk it till they get court

they already have FWC BWCA etc and people moan about joining them, saying i dont need to be a member to be professional

its like corgi/gas safe scheme,  they reacon there is 2 million jobs done a year by people who arnt gas safe,  and that is well advertised scheme,
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: N'tro on March 27, 2010, 11:00:07 am
it would remove the stigma surround being a windi, and thin out the scally dole jiro sc** . so people would  recognise the possitive proggression of proffesional windi's. :)
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on March 27, 2010, 11:04:53 am
Well said N'tro




Matt
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: dai on March 27, 2010, 05:22:55 pm
We are far too highly regulated as it is, increase regulation= diminished rights.
Anyone has the right to clean windows for money, or cut hedges, dig gardens or anything else that's legal.
In the old days women would take in washing to earn a few extra pennies.
How can we deny the right of anyone, to work and earn at any job he likes?
I don't like it when someone canvasses my customers and undercuts my prices, none of us do, but I will always stick up for his right to do it.
In order to protect our rights, we have to be prepared to fight for the rights of others.
People have given their lives to protect our freedoms, and I see it a duty to protect every single one of them.
I think that sometimes we are too quick to brand people as dole cheats, especially when they seem to be working for peanuts, but most under pricing is carried out by newbies, that compare the minimum basic wage with what they can earn window cleaning.
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: mikeyfaerosyth on March 27, 2010, 06:38:52 pm
been cleaning windows scotland 18 years.never been asked to see licence. :(not boverd with one last 5/6 years.see more and more windys most days.doubt any have licence.have quite a few  police customers.(nice people)did 1 today.had a chat.they've more important things to do i think than check if u on brew or not.would like to see more social/council checks to crack down on dole cheats doing work (usually crap) cheap ,no overheads.gonae apply for one next week thou,just went wfp :)totally amazed at results  ;D
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: telboy on March 28, 2010, 11:35:46 am
Regulated by who  ???
Title: Re: Window cleaning regulation
Post by: lcwalker on March 28, 2010, 01:00:44 pm
There not much job wise you can just start up and do nearly everything has regs just let W/C be one that is kept how it has always been.Also the one that have voted yes are probably the bigger companies who dont even want to give the little man a chance.I cleaned some windows the other day quoted she said the price was fine then she asked do i do the frames and sill i said course i do the complete window, she said she a a company do them last 4 ment turned up did them in about 10 minutes and after she had to clean the sills and frames there i think the company were the cowboys.