Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on March 11, 2010, 06:08:33 pm
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im getting my custys used to the idea of wfp as i will be changing over around august time!
ive just said it does i more thorough job and you ll get ur frames/doors cleaned every time and that its safer with all the health and safety malarky getting tighter etc.
i said ladders and bucket are now turning into "the horse and cart of window cleaning!!" ;D ;D
they seem to be getting "sold " on the idea now!!! :P ;D ;D
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go get em daz mond
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yes - trad w/cing is Soooooooooooooooooooooo old fashioned and 18th century ;D ;D ;D
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Good way of selling wfp to your custys but can't see you getting many enquiring about you doing insides wit it lol
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i had a good day on the ladders today!all my cream were due today(tommorrow/sat and monday as well!).im sure i would be faster wfp after a few months of getting used to it!
i was "in the zone" tradding today though!! ;D ;D
regards
dazmond
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yeah it is getting a bit old fashioned now, and unnesscessarily (did i spell that right ;D) dangerous when you can use poles. saw a guy trading today with 3 employees, and boasting of 25yrs experience. why dont people embrace new safer technology? especially for their staff! ive only been doing it 2 1/2 yrs and started straight on wfp. each to their own i spose ;)
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The time WILL come, because of the powers that be, when EVERY window cleaner will have to invest in WFP; using ladders will simply be so much hassle due to red tape and health and safety :-\
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a lot look at it and think there will be less profit in it, with all the cost of water and resin etc
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prob... but they gotta find them 1st lol ;D. if i didnt ave my back prob no one would of stopped me
from doin trad, dont care who they r!
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I like trad. I go away knowing it's a job well done 8) rather walking away hoping the pure water will dry ok :P
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I like trad. I go away knowing it's a job well done 8) rather walking away hoping the pure water will dry ok :P
This kind of post makes me give a wry smile! A trad operator should go back and look at his "perfect" trad job from the insides when the sun is out and low in the sky. It is in precisely those situations where a good wfp operator knows he has made the right choice.
If you do a bad job your custy will soon let you know!
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I like trad. I go away knowing it's a job well done 8) rather walking away hoping the pure water will dry ok :P
This kind of post makes me give a wry smile! A trad operator should go back and look at his "perfect" trad job from the insides when the sun is out and low in the sky. It is in precisely those situations where a good wfp operator knows he has made the right choice.
If you do a bad job your custy will soon let you know!
But Malc, all the "I've got a custy complaining" posts come from wfp merchants...ain't read too many "I've got custies complaining" posts from trad guys.
Can't speak for others but my work looks good at any sun level. 5 years and can count complaints on less than 2 hands 8)
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i never had 1 complaint when i was trad ;D.... untill i started takin people on that is ::)
wfp leaves a fantastic finish with out a doubt ;D.
its just im not getting the satisfaction i used 2get from trad :-\
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yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. welcome to todays wfp vs trad topic
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yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. welcome to todays wfp vs trad topic
Yeah you're right. I'm not going to post any more on this thread.
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how can u join in then.... moan about it ??? ??? ??? ??? haha
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so you don't clean insides then! or do you just pole them anyway? don't forget our swimmig costume. ;D not been here for a while and there are still silly threads like this one.
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it seems very much each to their own on this (im trad but tried wfp, once , about 10 yr ago when it started ,didnt like it) lets stop slaggin each other off and get on with the job in hand. if it works for u happy days if no get the ladders out like me
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I'm not moaning (for a change ::) ) Been away from the forum for a couple of weeks or so. The trad Vs WFP thing is standard on here. Some of the threads are a great laugh, some not so. The point I always wanted to hear was, Why do some WFP guys seem to try to nudge trad blokes over to WFP? What difference would it make to the WFP guys if everyone was WFP?
Surely, if someone is WFP and can't fall off a ladder then that's good. But why would it benefit a WFP bloke if ladders were banned? He is WFP and doesn't have to worry about it. What reason do some WFP guys think that trad blokes aren't WFP, because they are stupid, or because they can't scrape a couple of thou together?
Always made me wonder.
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i do a chip shop inside trad and out side wfp and i think wfp stays cleaner longer and gives a better result, i notice marks after a few weeks when the sunshine on the inside
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Daz, chip shops are full of steam and fat, could have something to do with that. So if a trad bloke stays trad, how is that a bad thing for WFP guys? That's what I was asking mate
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i have a lot of commercial work that is one story that i wouldnt dream of using wfp on inc shops etc as it would be well to slow and use far too much water when all would need is half a bucket and a cloth and squegee
trad isnt horse and cart its another method...
however wfp is safer in some situations and/or faster so use both when necessary but you might not find it is loads quicker daz, just safer
if its faster then thats a bonus
i have an employee who cleans downstairs and i do upstairs and the only way we are going to make more money with wfp is the fact that he will be doing a house as i will rather than up/down, speed wise i doubt it very much!
plus its safer and less tiring (hopefuly) for me...
i have been meaning to change for ages but kept putting it off as im growing the business still my energies have been elsewhere i suppose and i know the quickest way for me will be a van mount but that is gonna cost a few quid and need to save it up as i cant get into debt as ive already done that for rounds, and been moving house alot recently but hopefully asap i will have a van mount instead of the backpack!
Yuo getting a van daz??
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You know the very worst thing about wfp is the mess. It's messy, looks messy, unfinished, job not completed and this from a guy that uses it daily,water dripping everywhere and glass looking drookit.
I do most of my domestic work traditional on the ground floor stuff and wfp for everything else. Love doing the ground floor stuff, looks braw, finished, shiny, dry and complete, professional job even.
I often think that if I were not a window cleaner but a custy, then I would be a wee bit peeved off at the job I left.
Wont be giving the pole up any time soon though, sod them pesky custies.
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Yeah Sean, I know what you are saying, but I womder why some WFP guys seem to want trad blokes to change. I'm in no doubt of the benefits of WFP. But why do some try to push trad blokes over to it?
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My only concern is how long before small domestic systems are available at a cheap enough price for home owners> lets face it the water production can be done with resin alone especially in areas of soft water. Just so you know I use wfp almost all the time
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it seems very much each to their own on this (im trad but tried wfp, once , about 10 yr ago when it started ,didnt like it) lets stop slaggin each other off and get on with the job in hand. if it works for u happy days if no get the ladders out like me
hey where you based dazthegar im in stirling cmon the gers on course for the treble ;D
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windys can not defiy gravety but WFP dus ;D ;D ;D ;D & thats why im water fed
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Some sensible posts now, I am mainly commercial and clean for the local council, I use both methods trad and WFP and find it works well. I find guys that slag off trad can't use the trad gear properly and others have just come into the business using WFP from the off and that's fine, but don't slag off something you have never used or don't know how to use.
Seen this many times on here and I have been on cleanitup for a long time now and nothing seems to change. Everyone has a choice to work the way they want to and every job is different. LETS ALL GET ON GUYS!! and stop making stupid comments. Regards
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you lot crack me up trad will never be dead try taking a wfp inside some ones home :P the fact is anyone can use a wfp a call themselfs a window cleaner :-X hardly skill is it a broom on a pole that squirts water :P not knocking it but you dont need an o level ::) where as you could not give a squeegee to any one from newby a go a commercial job,a wfp you can no skill needed,a broom in the air ;DLOL
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you lot crack me up trad will never be dead try taking a wfp inside some ones home :P the fact is anyone can use a wfp a call themselfs a window cleaner :-X hardly skill is it a broom on a pole that squirts water :P not knocking it but you dont need an o level ::) where as you could not give a squeegee to any one from newby a go a commercial job,a wfp you can no skill needed,a broom in the air ;DLOL
well said terry ;) im now wfp but its just not the same 4me any more :( was trad 4 abou20years n loved it ;D the job was more enjoyable doin trad & not as easy as people thought :P
now any1 can do wfp if they buy the kit :( :( :(
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;D like I said not knocking but if there where no wfp every one would be using trad end of ;D and people slag it off as if it were dinosaur the fact is its tools of our trade and they will never go away ;D
;D be careful window cleaners dont start getting called window sweepers ;D
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you lot crack me up trad will never be dead try taking a wfp inside some ones home :P the fact is anyone can use a wfp a call themselfs a window cleaner :-X hardly skill is it a broom on a pole that squirts water :P not knocking it but you dont need an o level ::) where as you could not give a squeegee to any one from newby a go a commercial job,a wfp you can no skill needed,a broom in the air ;DLOL
not exactly true about wfp is it really ::) or you wouldnt have as many posts
on method of use on here all the time.it takes time to be able to use the
system properly like any method or job.
after cleaning many thousands of windows wfp i can instinctively now
tell which windows will give trouble and which wont i never walk
away from any job hoping it will be good i always know it will be plus
dealing with the many problems that come with maintaining your system
correctly and dealing with the winter,i lost only two days due to weather
this is all a skill in its self and is due to the time served and the effort
you put into the job.
no direspect to trad methods because i use them for inside cleaning
my self but my 12 yr old can squeegee he may not use any speed
techniques but he can clean the glass to a good standard even if
he only uses straight lines.
what im saying really is anybody can clean a window to a good
standard within a few hours if only using a basic method.takes
a lot more so called skill and judgement to get it right with
wfp ;) ;D
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Yeah Sean, I know what you are saying, but I womder why some WFP guys seem to want trad blokes to change. I'm in no doubt of the benefits of WFP. But why do some try to push trad blokes over to it?
maybe its to justify to themselves the many thousands some have
spent on systems same as many on here push over priced poles
maybe its self justification ;D
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what im saying really is anybody can clean a window to a good
standard within a few hours if only using a basic method.takes
a lot more so called skill and judgement to get it right with
wfp ;) ;D
sorry gary999, i think ur way off ::) there is a hell of alot more 2trad than wfp.
just a quick example.... trad on plain glass, leaded & georgen all diff ways of cleaning.
wfp is the same on all types. any1 can wfp. the only thing that i dont know wiv wfp
is at high up windys, thats gotta b hard ???
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All you wfp will becme fat lazy -------s going at a snail pace ,not like trade up and down keping you fit,and carrying a ladder all day,you will all turn into Super Slob. ;D :P
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i already have bumper ::) so it 2 late 4me :-[ is it lunch time yet lol :P
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i think were going a bit off topic now, i think the real issue isnt blade vs pole, its ladders vs pole. as theres nothing wrong with using blades, as someone said in town centres or certain shops, its a nightmare to cart your wfp stuff around,..
im sure most wfp's like myself have learned how to use a blade, even basically to do insides.
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what im saying really is anybody can clean a window to a good
standard within a few hours if only using a basic method.takes
a lot more so called skill and judgement to get it right with
wfp ;) ;D
sorry gary999, i think ur way off ::) there is a hell of alot more 2trad than wfp.
just a quick example.... trad on plain glass, leaded & georgen all diff ways of cleaning.
wfp is the same on all types. any1 can wfp. the only thing that i dont know wiv wfp
is at high up windys, thats gotta b hard ???
sorry wrong again its the same with wfp, different types of glass and frames
mean just as much with wfp and if you dont use the method correctly
you will do a poor job. ;) :)
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They're both crap. Get yourself a nice bucket of dirty water and a chamois. ;)
Oh, and don't forget a nice pair of dungarees, and to dangle a roll-up from your bottom lip.
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you lot crack me up trad will never be dead try taking a wfp inside some ones home :P the fact is anyone can use a wfp a call themselfs a window cleaner :-X hardly skill is it a broom on a pole that squirts water :P not knocking it but you dont need an o level ::) where as you could not give a squeegee to any one from newby a go a commercial job,a wfp you can no skill needed,a broom in the air ;DLOL
i know what youre saying . but again im sure it takes just as long to get used to cleaning and doing a good job at 60 foot with a pole as it does cleaning efficiently with a squegee , both methods and more have to be something that all decent window cleaners are competent with
its where you use it that matters - ie the right tool for the right job
with all the time devoted to this subject in the past im surprised at some of the comments from the cleaners who i would of thought were more knowledgeable ??
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;D like I said not knocking but if there where no wfp every one would be using trad end of ;D and people slag it off as if it were dinosaur the fact is its tools of our trade and they will never go away ;D
;D be careful window cleaners dont start getting called window sweepers ;D
The problem is Terry you're the fastest trad man and proud of it - it takes amazing skill to get to your level. Great but follow my analogy.
It's like running a steam locomotive - it takes great skill to get the best from a steam locomotive and when that skill is reached you can get good performances and run expresses at 60 mph averages on high days and holidays.
But the diesel and electric locos start at the push of a button, will run at 125/175 mph all day long and commercially have eclipsed steam.
You still get steam in it's place - skilfully driven, shone and burnished and looking fantastic - but it's now a tourist attraction or fills a niche market.
Of course trad has it's uses but on outside work commercially (not to mention health and safety) not to have and use wfp where you can makes little sense.
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u got ur opions n ive got mine ;D guess we should leave it there m8, dont u ;D ;)
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u got ur opions n ive got mine ;D guess we should leave it there m8, dont u ;D ;)
If that's not addressed to me then my apologies - if it is:-
I will continue to try to tell fellow window cleaners on here that using wfp will transform their business and if used properly then their customers will have an excellent job done and recommend them.
If this reduces maiming and death from falls as well then that's a good result too.
Like you I was trad and still do it for insides and occasional situations but these now make up less than 5% of my work.
I have a dozen fellow jw's that I know pretty well who window clean - nine of them are now wfp and three aren't.
Seven of the nine (star trek anyone? ;D) earn full time income from p/t work which suits their lifestyle.
Two of the nine have employees and do not feel it morally right to force employees up ladders when there is an alternative.
The three that aren't wfp work from old cars, tell me that they don't want to be running up and down ladders in their fifties but don't want to go to wfp because their customers wouldn't like it.
It is no skin off my nose if they don't but as they are pretty pleasant guys I would like them to reap the benefits of wfp. In fact one of them is doing no window cleaning at all as he fell from his ladder two months ago and he is still dithering about what to do when he is able to walk properly again. ::)
You can lead a horse to water ...
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you lot crack me up trad will never be dead try taking a wfp inside some ones home :P the fact is anyone can use a wfp a call themselfs a window cleaner :-X hardly skill is it a broom on a pole that squirts water :P not knocking it but you dont need an o level ::) where as you could not give a squeegee to any one from newby a go a commercial job,a wfp you can no skill needed,a broom in the air ;DLOL
LOL. Bet you'd soon moan if someone tried WFP on the fastest window cleaner contest at Windex ;D .
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All you wfp will becme fat lazy -------s going at a snail pace ,not like trade up and down keping you fit,and carrying a ladder all day,you will all turn into Super Slob. ;D :P
What do you mean by "WILL turn into super slob".
I'm ahead of you Bumper ;D
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;D no gold not u m8 ;) it was gettin a bit silly between me n gary999 :(
but we is cool now ;D dont worry about it gold ;D i didnt even read the thead ;)
its all good m8 ;D happy days
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;D I think what we all must remember is that all tools of the trade wfp or not are our trade simples ;D :-*
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hi ya all :) as a trad man for the past 25 yrs there is work out there that no way you could do with a wfp,posibly with a troley system but then you would have to keep refilling it , no way would you get a truck near enough to make it viable, trad is favourit,getting pipes wrapped around rose bushes and dragged through dog poop is not for me.........petemg
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the amount of people not connected to window cleaning i come across while working , builders ,decorators , gardeners etc . they always stop and ask about the wfp and usually end up saying its a doddle or that saves going up and down ladders all day thats made the job a lot easier for you . and most of them end up saying something like youve still got idiots with ladders when you can clean that easy . always makes me smile ;D
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;D It will always be a mixed bag of opinions :-\ ;D its what works for you and your contracts simples ;D the answer is simply both ;D
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I am going to start off trad, & see how I get on, & may even transfer over to WFP myself at a later date.
I don`t really think it`s fair though when I read users of one method running down users of another, ie WFP`s running down trad.
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;D no gold not u m8 ;) it was gettin a bit silly between me n gary999 :(
but we is cool now ;D dont worry about it gold ;D i didnt even read the thead ;)
its all good m8 ;D happy days
sorry if offended you was just passing an opinion as i didnt
agree with what your were saying.
but if it makes your day trad is best ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D no gold not u m8 ;) it was gettin a bit silly between me n gary999 :(
but we is cool now ;D dont worry about it gold ;D i didnt even read the thead ;)
its all good m8 ;D happy days
sorry if offended you was just passing an opinion as i didnt
agree with what your were saying.
but if it makes your day trad is best ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
LOL ;D glad we r ok ;)
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;D you know whats so funny over the years people have said window cleaners are a breed ::)like of the same and in a funny way they are right :) whats funny is that any one gets our backs up its like yer you want a peace of me or what ;D
or is it that has changed and I am going back to far :-\ I would like to think so a pro like wc is or has come along :-\ you still hear of the odd thing though :)you have to remember guys there is nothing your going to tell me new ::) with the greatest respect to all on this forum :-*I really am interestested to know :)
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i want to transform my business and i believe some of you wfp guys!16 yrs trad and im ready to get off the ladders for 80-90% of my round.
wfp is the way forward for me with a bit of trad thrown in on downstairs windows in very cold weather/bungalows and windows that arent suitable just for old times sake!! :P
onward and upward!!
regards
dazmond
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WOW this really has go of topic ;D remeber how it started about some one selling WFP to there custamers
OK this is my thoughts
First this trad VS WFP can never be addressed
thats because it depends on what you think is better, if you ask what saves the most water then trad will win, if you ask what way is the cheapest and easiest to replace equipment then trad will win, If you ask which way can clean above conservatories and roofs when its to dangerous to work on then WFP will win and so..
It has been said horses for courses both are excellent tools....
But I do understand why people try to push WFP and when I hear things like there is not much trad threats or why does wintex concentrate on WFP more than trad,
Thats because WFP is definitly the future of window cleaning ,,, don't get me wrong trad will live side by side with it and all WFP operaters use trad
But if you have not yet got a WFP system then listen to Gold he is right, A WFP system will complete any window cleaners setup
ADDERS :)