Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pureandclean on March 01, 2010, 08:36:33 pm
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Just wondering if one of the big boys could give us an idea of the total cost of employing a window cleaner over a year.
Including things like Holiday Pay, Nat Ins. Employers liability, etc.
I think this would help anyone considering employing in the near future.
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So is it going to be £15,000, £20,000, any idea's I haven't employed anyone for years, my guys are all self employed.
But keep getting requests for more and more commercial work, so thinking the time is coming for me to go back down the employing route.
It is not so much their salary, it is all the other costs involved.
Used to be a guy on the forums who was starting a window cleaning franchise, and he uploaded a spreadsheet of his costs, seem to have mislaid it.
Any ideas?
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Hi Graeme,
Its depends on whether they are full time or part time and ofcourse how much you are going to pay them.
Employers liabilty isn't to expensive when you weigh up the danger of not having it,
The monthly employers paye contributions can be a pain in the backside again depending on their wage,
And so can holiday pay,
But its all part and parcel of going down that route,
Hope that helps all though very brief,
Dean
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also be aware that in 2011 or 2012 there is a new law coming into force where you have to pay something to you staff pension, even if they don't want a pension.
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Maybe I should employ myself, that way, at least I would have to put something away for my pension.
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also be aware that in 2011 or 2012 there is a new law coming into force where you have to pay something to you staff pension, even if they don't want a pension.
There must be a way of opting out of this as it would put a load of small businesses at risk,
Only time will tell,
There's no way ill be doing it anyway.
Dean
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also be aware that in 2011 or 2012 there is a new law coming into force where you have to pay something to you staff pension, even if they don't want a pension.
There must be a way of opting out of this as it would put a load of small businesses at risk,
Only time will tell,
There's no way ill be doing it anyway.
Dean
There is no get out clause with this new law
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I've had a fair few clowns on my books iver the last few years,
Most of them didn't even deserve a wage nevermind a pension,
It won't happen purehydro I promise.
I'd go down graemes route first.
Dean
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also be aware that in 2011 or 2012 there is a new law coming into force where you have to pay something to you staff pension, even if they don't want a pension.
If that is true its just more bloody interfering by the nanny Labour state yet again.
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http://www.almarygreen.com/corporate/employee-benefits/automatic-enrolment-now-and-after-2012
Read and weep
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It says employees can opt out.
Sorted then.
Mine will opt out ;-)
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that totally up to you.
But with most of the employment laws in the employees favour, maybe I should work for you for a few weeks then take you to a tribunal and sue you for thousands, after I have made you bankrupt I can then move onto another employer who does not want to comply with the law.
I will soon be rich and I won't need to work at all, my pension will be full with all the backdated payments from my previous employers who are all signing on now. ;D
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It says employees can opt out.
Sorted then.
Mine will opt out ;-)
pmsl go on dean pay their pension
you tight sod ;D ;D ;D
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also be aware that in 2011 or 2012 there is a new law coming into force where you have to pay something to you staff pension, even if they don't want a pension.
sod that!!!
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what if the emplyer doesn't have a pension scheme?
plus lets face it, labour wont be in power in 2012, if you go by the polls.
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Forget pensions for the moment as the legislation isn't sorted out yet and anyway it will just be like the national minimum wage, customers will pay for it thus contributing to the continued erosion of Britain's competetiveness and ensure that even more manufacturing moves to eastern Europe ....... which of course reduces the need for service industries like ours slowly but surely.
Forget making your staff go down the self-employed route as well. Didn't you realise there is one of the biggest crackdowns started against the self employed since they decided to try and stop the 'Lump' (self employed in the building trade for those too young)
If you look at the multi-million pound case against one of the large slimming clubs (weight watchers I think) you can see that it is 'the little people' yet again who are going to be stumping up the cash to pay for a certain Mr Brown's follies.
Trying to answer the question specifically. You have to give your staff 25 days holidays. At the moment Bank Holidays can still count towards that (till stopped under European law) so essentially You are going to have to pay for four weeks holiday. This equates to 8% each week on the gross wages you pay your staff. In addition you have to pay employers national insurace tax on their earnings over approximately £97 p/w. This is currently 12.8% (the employee pays 11%) so in simple terms for every pound you pay your staff over £97 per week you should add on approximately 21%. Does that make you weep?
The best to watch out for is the weasel words ...."we are increasing employers NIC Tax by 1%" then it jumps to 13.8% for example. In my book that is a 7.8% increase!
Cynical?, who me? Phil D
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what if the emplyer doesn't have a pension scheme?
plus lets face it, labour wont be in power in 2012, if you go by the polls.
It a European Directive, but unlike the WHAD, this one has a power and punch behind it.
Also all politial parties have said that all of the workforce will have to have a private pension in place soon because the country cannot afford it anymore.
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http://www.ftadviser.com/FTAdviser/Pensions/News/article/20100112/afbbca04-ff81-11de-a148-00144f2af8e8/Final-rules-on-pension-reform-put-before-Parliament.jsp
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regarding self employed, i am sure i read some where that if people are self employed but only get there work from one place, ie wc working for you, then he is classed as employed, because he has to prove he gts his work from different places, that means he might have to work for two different wc just to be self employed
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phild if you employee you need to be carful the min holidays is 28 days it went up from 24 1st april 2009
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also get it in the contract from the start what sick pay they are entitled to, as a lot dont then get screwed
my sis in law use her full entitlment of sick days every year, just takes time off in the hols, when she goes back in and they ask her about she then goes on the sick with stress, so gets more time off, i have know her for years and i dont think i have ever seen her work a kids holidays yet,
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I have looked at employing staff, even to the point of spending £600 with a HR company who have drafted me all the contracts and paperwork I will need.
I have compleated a business plan and have worked out that the total cost of employing is
38% of all domestic work they do and 30% of commercial work.
Their minimum hourly rate would be £10 rising to £15 with bonuses.
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I just try to keep it simply and pay them a salery as I dont think an employee will stick with you if you turn around a give them less one month because you had allot of bad weather and couldnt get round all the work.
Yes, NI contributions are a pain but its a must. Also yes its 28 days but that depends on the days and hours you work. I think the 28 days is for 5 days.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10034642
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what if the emplyer doesn't have a pension scheme?
plus lets face it, labour wont be in power in 2012, if you go by the polls.
It a European Directive, but unlike the WHAD, this one has a power and punch behind it.
Also all politial parties have said that all of the workforce will have to have a private pension in place soon because the country cannot afford it anymore.
there has been an opt out for 12-13 years ago with regards to pensions.
I have opted out of the state pension, and the percentage of my NI which would of gone towards the state pension is now going to a private pension.
Matt
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Who is worried about pensions, when we can sell our work for 10x the monthly value. I might just start round building and sell the work on ebay, for my retirement fund ;D
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what if the emplyer doesn't have a pension scheme?
plus lets face it, labour wont be in power in 2012, if you go by the polls.
It a European Directive, but unlike the WHAD, this one has a power and punch behind it.
Also all politial parties have said that all of the workforce will have to have a private pension in place soon because the country cannot afford it anymore.
there has been an opt out for 12-13 years ago with regards to pensions.
I have opted out of the state pension, and the percentage of my NI which would of gone towards the state pension is now going to a private pension.
Matt
When the nanny state was set up over 60 years ago, it was mean't that all of us would be looked after from the cradle to the grave.
Well like any fairy story you come down to earth with a crash when you find that the fox is now using a bulldozer to knock the house down.
Well now they have added their pennies together and they have found that in 20 years time, there will not be a penny left, and the pension fund will be bankrupt.
So their next "baldrick, I have a plan" is that every worker in the UK has to have a private pension plan in place, and this new idea starts with the 2012 pension plan.
This plan has support across all the political partys, so it does not matter who is elected, come 5 April 2012, employers and employees will find that they have 1 more tax to pay.
Power to the People ;D
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whats the chance that a national pension will be means tested and ur private pension will just be too much to get any thing of the gov
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that totally up to you.
But with most of the employment laws in the employees favour, maybe I should work for you for a few weeks then take you to a tribunal and sue you for thousands, after I have made you bankrupt I can then move onto another employer who does not want to comply with the law.
I will soon be rich and I won't need to work at all, my pension will be full with all the backdated payments from my previous employers who are all signing on now. ;D
What im getting at is the whole idea of employing is to make you business more profit and supposedly make you life easier,
The moment this doesnt happen then I will no longer employ,
If its not worth doing then I wont do it.
Thats why the new law wont affect me.
;) ;)
Dean
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Thats why I have changed my mind and I won't be employing, too much hassle and stress
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gotta admitt..... it does seem like a lot of hassell. y would u want it ::) i like my life 2b simples :P
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Oh and my lads will opt out too ;D ;D
Its in their best interests ;)
Dean
ps,
Do they have to pay anything into the "fund" themselves? ie. a % of their wage weekly/monthly?
Also what about my pension?
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Your right about the holidays Ronnie. My apologies. The sad thing is when you read through the thread how small businesses are put off taking employees on and who (besides the government) is the group that employs the most people? That's right, small businesses.
God I am (have?) turned into my grumpy Old Dad ;-)
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Oh and my lads will opt out too ;D ;D
Its in their best interests ;)
Dean
ps,
Do they have to pay anything into the "fund" themselves? ie. a % of their wage weekly/monthly?
Also what about my pension?
I go to a networking meeting every 2 weeks and one of the guys whos turns up is into pensions, that how I know about this, but from what he has said, there are no opt outs, if you employ then you have to pay and yes the employee also has to pay as well.
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Oh and my lads will opt out too ;D ;D
Its in their best interests ;)
Dean
ps,
Do they have to pay anything into the "fund" themselves? ie. a % of their wage weekly/monthly?
Also what about my pension?
I go to a networking meeting every 2 weeks and one of the guys whos turns up is into pensions, that how I know about this, but from what he has said, there are no opt outs, if you employ then you have to pay and yes the employee also has to pay as well.
On a serious note,
They wont be happy about that,
Rules are rules though,
It wont affect them though anyway as ive said before,
Whats the meeting that you go to?
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I'm a member of the BoB clubs, they meet every 2 weeks over breakfast and they network for each other.
I normally get a few thousands worth of business every year
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How much does it cost you?
Is there a website?
Sounds interesting.
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http://www.bobclubs.com/
there is a yearly membership fee plus the cost of the breakfast which is normally £10.
They only have 1 trade in each club as members so you wll be the only window cleaner at your club.
Unlike some other networking clubs, you are not pressured to supply refferals.
Also at the meetings you have a couple of minutes to say who you are and what you do and what you are looking for.
On this note you should be more to the point, instead of saying you want window cleaning work, narrow it down to I want introductions into such and such firms, or I want indrodctions into hotel work etc etc or I am looking at certains areas to move into and so on.
The more details you give on your wants the more refferals you will recieve, also by passing on refferals also helps with what you can get.
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Cheers mate,
Ill take a look,
Dean
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Been reading this thread with interest,
And i have always envisaged building until i am bursting at the seams, and i am nearly there,
Now, i am having second thoughts about employing, it sounds far two costly ...that very first step ...
like one step forward and 3 back.... i want to hear the success stories,
how to do it properly, how to deal with them in bad weather,.. how can a one man band pay an employee if it rains all week with no work... if the money is not coming in??
so in actual fact i would need a few grand in the bank just to cover them weeks....
so if that happens in the first few weeks, then i would be well and truly stuffed....even if i had a massive round?
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First of all you would need a good selection of domestic and commercial work, with commercial you can still work in the rain.
Next you have to look at your working week, try to make the round so that it can be cleaned by working 10 hours a day over a 4 day week, which is what you work in the winter.
So if you workers are rained off in these 4 days then they will have to work on the 3 other days instead.
Good staff is a must and good rates of pay with bonuses and working conditions will help, ideally you want a worker who is happy with working for someone rather than himself.
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I have looked at employing staff, even to the point of spending £600 with a HR company who have drafted me all the contracts and paperwork I will need.
I have compleated a business plan and have worked out that the total cost of employing is
38% of all domestic work they do and 30% of commercial work.
Their minimum hourly rate would be £10 rising to £15 with bonuses.
how can u afford to pay £15 per hour
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You need to charge your customers the correct rates, over they last 5 years years I have been charging high, but my service and quality is even higher.
Without getting into agurment with others who say it can't be done in my area, most of my domestic customers either live on council estates or are normal workers like us.
I do not target the high end market, because I have found out over the last 30 years that they are normally living beyond their means.
With commercial work the same applies, I do not target big companies, rather I would perfer small businesses who understand about quality and service and the price that comes with it.
You also have to think about the major problems that businesses have when they start to employ people, and the 2 biggest is working conditions and pay, I also believe that you should not pay someone what you are not willing to work for yourself.
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I usually get comments like'con' 'rip-off' etc, but my system works. My organisation comprises myself, my wife and six (soon to be seven) operatives, all out there grafting away and earning us money.
We don't con them, they know exactly what they're getting and are happy to pay us every week.
They are all genuinely self employed, owning and operating their own businesses. It's legal, easy to run and COSTS US NOTHING AT ALL
They are all franchisees.
What I can never understand is why would anyone want to employ in this business when it is the ideal business to franchise?
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You need to charge your customers the correct rates, over they last 5 years years I have been charging high, but my service and quality is even higher.
Without getting into agurment with others who say it can't be done in my area, most of my domestic customers either live on council estates or are normal workers like us.
I do not target the high end market, because I have found out over the last 30 years that they are normally living beyond their means.
With commercial work the same applies, I do not target big companies, rather I would perfer small businesses who understand about quality and service and the price that comes with it.
You also have to think about the major problems that businesses have when they start to employ people, and the 2 biggest is working conditions and pay, I also believe that you should not pay someone what you are not willing to work for yourself.
what do u charge for a 3 bedroom house then
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£10 per 4 weekly clean with double on the 1st clean, if its 6 weekly then price goes up and anything over 12 weeks is classed as a 1st clean.
But there are also other factors like access, if I have to go though a house to do the back then I charge extra.
I also charge extra if it takes longer than normal houses as well
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£10 per 4 weekly clean with double on the 1st clean, if its 6 weekly then price goes up and anything over 12 weeks is classed as a 1st clean.
But there are also other factors like access, if I have to go though a house to do the back then I charge extra.
I also charge extra if it takes longer than normal houses as well
staff,r they employees or r they self employed
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they would be employed