Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on February 25, 2010, 11:13:52 am
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Yes, yes I know we've been here before but I just need to get this rant off my chest.
Went to quote for a firm of accountants in an office block in the centre of Manchester. Did my usual charm offensive but to no effect.
Whilst I would be cleaning with HWE the winning bid works out at 78p per square metre! (General office low profile tiles with the usual array of markings in the traffic lanes and with heavy soiling in knee-wells; carpet hasn't been cleaned in at least 5 years.) Allowing for desks/filing cabinets perhaps about 100p per square metre but I bet they won't be going properly along edges and into corners!
Oh and the accountants have also decided to pay for stain protector :o at 18p per square metre :o :o although I admit that cabinets and desks will probably mean that price would go upto 27p per square metre.
I know a LM clean is cheaper than HWE but can't a firm of professional accountants see what they won't be getting? I just suppose they don't really care if the company doing the clean have gone out of business in a short while.
Ho hum.
Roger
PS On a separate note what "cutting corners" do people know of? Obviously not moving 3ps in domestic houses or not cleaning the risers on stairs. Any others?
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invest in equipment that will do a better job, quicker. thats the only "corner cutting i do.
as for losing the quote to a cheapy. come on roger, smile, you know its there loss.
and chances are, you 'll be cleaning it in 3 months. ;D
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Do people actually clean carpets without moving the 3 piece, that's lazy.
Only corner cut I do is not cleaning backs of 3 piece if it don't need it.
John
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OK, this is not the sort of market I like to be involved in, but lets analyse this if I wanted to be competitive in this sector. So I'll illustrate a fictional job based on Rogers figures.
At 78p sqM I would need 1000 sqM of office = £780
Lets deduct 25% for fixtures and fittings = 750sqM to be cleaned.
One days work for two man team.
2 man team, one tec, one assistant on weekend rate = £225ish
Materials for generic bonnet = £20
So, gross profit for business = £780 - £245 = £535.
For me at this rate (78p sqM) it would need to be at least 1000sqM, others will be less. But as you can see, a profit can be made. But for me, I would not enter this sort of price led environment anymore.
As for the quality of work achieved by the chosen contractor in this case, it's not for me to say, but high standards are achievable at this rate. I know, 'cos I used to do it at 60p sqM maintenance until quite recently (8000sqM)
On the Dry Fusion training course a few years ago, it was shown that using their system, it was possible to earn good profit on larger areas @ £0.60p sqM. This is not just for cleaning, but protecting too. OK, labour rates will have increased a little since then although material costs are actually lower (Nice work Shaun 8) )
It's easy to knock low prices, especially in the "commercial -corporate" arena, but it is a totally different place to where most of us are.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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So, gross profit for business = £780 - £245 = £535.
seems like a hell of a profit. could cut prices down still and make a decent amount of money, unless there is hidden costs not mentioned? can't wait to start carpet cleaning
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Hidden costs? Only van, fuel, advertising, insurance, repairs, investing in new equipment etc, apart from that not much ;D
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Advertising ............ No holiday pay.......... no sick pay,,,ermm expenseses for training days, shows, days out etc .......... ermmmm accountants and i dare say no end of other things leaving you probrbly better off working for tesco ;) ;D
geoff
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Advertising ............ No holiday pay.......... no sick pay,,,ermm expenseses for training days, shows, days out etc .......... ermmmm accountants and i dare say no end of other things leaving you probrbly better off working for tesco ;) ;D
geoff
except the owner isn't doing any of the work as £245 was taken for staff, unless i'm mistaken?
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You will need another car to put the buffer in too :D
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;D
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GreenCleanSolution
You say "can't wait to start carpet cleaning"
yet you website says "We are proud to say that we are Surrey's leading green carpet cleaning company".
I think Strakercleaning.co.uk may have something to say about that with all the awards he has won for being a green carpet cleaner in Surrey and other areas.
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Joe
You beat my too it (their can only be one Mr Womble) ;) ;D ;D
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yeah but straker doesn't turn up in a nissan micra, now if thats not commitment to lowering carbon emmisions then i don't know what is. ;D
anyone with a horse and cart?
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If you were to again read my fictional job above, you will note that I allowed for on site expenses of labour and a generic cleaning solution, and what was left wasn't net profit, but GROSS profit. All other business expenses would come from that. On a daily basis, it wouldn't come to much, probably less than £100, leaving a net profit for one day of >£400.
This is how many contracting companies will look at this sort of work.
As I said, I, and many of us specialist carpet and upholstery cleaners, would not contemplate this sort of pricing structure, but this is the sort of competition we are up against when we enter the world of large office carpet cleaning.
This post is nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the business side of quoting.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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in fact green cleans logo looks very familiar to straker cleaning?/
www.strakercleaning.co.uk (http://www.strakercleaning.co.uk)
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£535 gross.
Less 28% tax and ni.
£385 now.
Still not bad for a days work though.
The assistant wouldn't get that much though either.
John
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This post is nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the business side of quoting.
As always Ken you are right.
I did a job today which I won by quoting really low even by my standards. Now I wouldn't normally do that but as in my eyes it has become personal between myself and another carpet cleaner, I was determined to get the job, particulary when I saw him leaving the place as I turned up!
Sadly times are hard, yes even in this area and £154 (£1/sqm) in my pocket is better than nothing at all.
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Hi Ken
Thanks for your input. As ever sound thinking...as far as it goes. you are of course right about many things and it was only because I thought I had it in the bag. Some you win and some you lose and yes I would have made a good profit. But...I still think it's wrong of who ever got it to be pushing stain protector and I can't help wondering at that price wether it will be properly applied. And if not it'll only cause to give those who apply it correctly a bad name.
Now the killer: You made an assumption of 1000m2. That wasn't wrong and to base your answer on your own assumption is certainly valid and was good because it provokes debate. However There was only about 400m2. Now on that basis the o/heads won't be much less but now I think we can all see that it really can't be profitable. Turnover £312, direct costs say £170=£142 gross profit. Not much to cover all the costs discussed earlier plus the time involved in going to do the quote and send it in.
I'm fortunate to not have to rely on jobs like this-they are the icing on the cake-but only when I get them.
Any further thoughts anybody?
Doc
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i wouldn't be surprised if there using something like catalyst or dry fusion which has built in protecter, therefore theyve sold protecter at 18p per sq meter with the knowledge that it would of been applied anyway, 400 sq meters with dry fusion including protector, i'd say 3 hours max.
sounds like it needs a deep clean first though, time will tell
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After reading Roger's opening post, I'm not at all surprised. Firm of accountants :) - Men in grey suits by their very profession don't know how to look for quality - only the bottom line
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Exactly, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing. ::)
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I was thinking along the same lines Derek and Frans I totally agree, figures first product/service later and then they'll moan and hold back payment or have you coming back to see to poxy spots that you have pre qualified them on.
Shaun
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My father in law's a retired accountant and he does "everything" on the cheap.... It really gets me down to be honest, we stayed at his house last week and he was snapping at my kids because they'd used the hot water and too much toilet roll (At the same time ???).... Honestly, when he dies my wife will never need to work again! He's loaded... I've earmarked a Titan and a Range Rover Sport ;D ;D ;D
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colin
4 words
mike halliday, ninja assasin ;D
don't wait mate, lifes to short. ;D
only joking but seriously mike halliday.
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The award for best post of the night goes to DEREK WEST for the above post
You bring something to this forum on a cold wet evening ;D ;D
priceless
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in fact green cleans logo looks very familiar to straker cleaning?/
www.strakercleaning.co.uk (http://www.strakercleaning.co.uk)
oh yes very similar, they're both round and have a part of them the colour green.
GreenCleanSolution
You say "can't wait to start carpet cleaning"
yet you website says "We are proud to say that we are Surrey's leading green carpet cleaning company".
I think Strakercleaning.co.uk may have something to say about that with all the awards he has won for being a green carpet cleaner in Surrey and other areas.
atm we use a green carpet cleaner and have done since august. it's far easier to say that it's our service as the customer pays us then we pay him, and it's also future proof
awards don't mean he's the greenest :) of course he may be the greenest, it's just awards prove nothing. i'm a fairly new company so haven't had time to get noticed, does that mean i'm not worthy of one?
Advertising ............ No holiday pay.......... no sick pay,,,ermm expenseses for training days, shows, days out etc .......... ermmmm accountants and i dare say no end of other things leaving you probrbly better off working for tesco ;) ;D
geoff
Hidden costs? Only van, fuel, advertising, insurance, repairs, investing in new equipment etc, apart from that not much ;D
but a domestic/commercial cleaning company also has these costs, with i suppose a few missing like the expensive equipment, but still a lot of other costs. the mentioned £500 or so profit to me sounds excellent and something i'd be extremely happy with :D