Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 07:14:33 am

Title: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 07:14:33 am
I have been window cleaning for a few years now, and have never had anyone official ask me whether or not I had a licence let alone talk to me about how to use a ladder.

Its seems that there is allot of focus on correct use and do's and dont's of using a ladder with regards to legislation. But has it ever really affected you in your day to day lives.

Now I wouldn't want anyone to be lacksydasical when using a ladder. Our policy is not above second floor or 20 feet, properly levelled and on a good grip-able surface, ladder mats used on marble floors etc and never for instance on ice or wet decking. Three points of contact at all times.

So just a quick yes/no if you have or haven't had anyone speak to you about proper use of a ladder, who was an official e.g. Health and safety officer or from the council.

Now I mean just walked up to you on the street, not meeting with HS after an accident or fall from a ladder, as its pretty much given if an employee had an accident they would do a little digging.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Ian W on February 23, 2010, 07:21:42 am
Never seen anyone. I am surprised that they don't do more spot checks.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: actualcleaning on February 23, 2010, 07:25:24 am
No
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 07:28:33 am
thanks for your reply actualcleaning but also vote as well if you dont mind, thanks  ::)
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Londoner on February 23, 2010, 07:41:22 am
No, never been spoken to but then I am WFP now anyway. I do however know of two cases where people have been nicked for using ladders. The first one was some painters painting some flats in Gayton Road Harrow and the second one was a couple of blokes fixing new guttering to a house in South Oxhey. The two cases are only a couple of miles apart but different councils so I would imagine different H&S departments.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 07:55:31 am
ah but not window cleaning though. I have seen a guy going up to a second floor window on a ladder here to fix sealant on the window in the worst weather I have seen in maybe two years. I mean gale force winds torrential rain, parked cars and vans rattling with the gusts. This guy did have someone footing the ladder, but it wouldn't do a sodding bit of good if it blew, 12/13 stone guy ontop of a 20/25 feet ladder in heavy gales, I would bet big arn'y in his hay day wouldn't hold that.

I do think there will be one or two who will say yes and would be interested to here the outcome, but most I think like me wouldn't have seen a pen pusher out of there office they wrote the legislation.

The absolutly stunning thing was I told one of my customers about this and there reply was yeah but if someone has water coming in there window it has to be done. My jaw nearly hit the floor, someone has to risk there life because water is coming in someone's window.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: actualcleaning on February 23, 2010, 07:59:35 am
thanks for your reply actualcleaning but also vote as well if you dont mind, thanks  ::)

Come on it is early....lol ;D
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on February 23, 2010, 08:06:10 am
With the number of Window Cleaners/Painters/Gutter Repairers etc to H&S officials most interaction will be reactive and not proactive.

In other words it will only be after the accident that H&S get involved.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gewindows on February 23, 2010, 08:08:23 am
There was a documentary about H &S on the box about a year or so ago. The number of inspectors that are out on the road was mentioned, cant remember it now, but it was ludicrous, something like 400 throughout England.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: daz1977 on February 23, 2010, 08:16:32 am
i think that the h and s will crackdown more on commercial and public building (council, schools etc) wc using ladders rather that joe blogs cleaning a house
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: jonnyald on February 23, 2010, 08:22:19 am
i think that the h and s will crackdown more on commercial and public building (council, schools etc) wc using ladders rather that joe blogs cleaning a house

agree, if i was a H&/S bloke i would want to focus on the big stuff, catch out a big firm and later get a feather in my cap from the top floor boys  and shimmy my way up the promotion ladder
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Phild on February 23, 2010, 08:33:07 am
Reading the thread it's obvious no-one is doing Builders Initial cleans as using a ladder on a construction site these days is like being a pensioner on a Club 18 -30 holiday.

Our staff have to use podium steps if they are working only a couple of feet off the floor, stepladders have to have handrails then there is PASMA certification if you erect a mobile tower plus some sites dictate the use of scafftags so only your staff can use them then if you need to get higher than a tower and need a cherry-picker you need IPAF certification....

I know it's 'Elf 'nd Safety but sometimes you feel as if the world has gone mad.

Phil D

Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on February 23, 2010, 08:47:04 am
No, and I doubt anyone would.
I've chatted to someone from H&S whilst up a ladder above a shop in the high street an the middle of the day.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 23, 2010, 09:24:57 am
all of our commercial insist WFP, and No ladders to be used.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 11:10:02 am
23% is higher than I thought it would be, anyone care to tell us more. What happened, did you get a fine, verbal ear bashing, licences revoked, nicked?
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Jeff Brimble on February 23, 2010, 12:19:27 pm
My CC dont have time to check before an accident, but god help you after you have had one.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 12:44:28 pm
My CC dont have time to check before an accident, but god help you after you have had one.

Thats kind of a point as well, is it because they are now working in McD's. Then again if you have an accident how do they find out afterwards if you don't tell them? Different if someone puts it in the paper, but if you though health and safety was going to come down on you while your in hospital with the broken leg, wouldn't you just say you were painting house or something, or fell down some stairs.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Jeff Brimble on February 23, 2010, 01:02:05 pm
They dont give a monkeys about you, its the dammage you cause to someone else that they will prosecute you for, even if you have PL Insurance.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: weetot on February 23, 2010, 01:41:40 pm
Someone walked into my ladder at 6.15am one morning, and i nearly fell off the bleeder.  Coned off and everything and they still managed to walk into it.  :P

Sorry back to original post, i vote no, but was thrown off a site by their own H&S people for having 2nd rung missing on a wooden ladder.  Does that count?
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on February 23, 2010, 05:06:26 pm
No, and I doubt anyone would.
I've chatted to someone from H&S whilst up a ladder above a shop in the high street an the middle of the day.


What were you doing up a ladder in the high street in the middle of the day?

What would have happened if a drunk bashed into you?  Or that blind bloke who walks about with a cane (I've reversed over his cane once  :-[) bumped into you, or someone was absent minded and in a hurry?

Shouldn't you plan you work so you don't have to be up a ladder in the high street during the middle of the day; say do it early in the morning where there's not many people about about?
I was working Tosh, remember that?
A few people did bash into me, I shouted at them usually.

I do remember some old biddy in an invalid car got her mirror stuck around my ladder, then when I said "hang on love!" she started trying to reverse...it was a bit sketchy for a minute... ;D

Everyone worked in the middle of the day a few years ago, before we all became poofs.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: elite mike on February 23, 2010, 05:08:50 pm
speak for your  self roger :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Richard Holt on February 23, 2010, 05:14:45 pm
Yes

But it was whilst doing a builders clean on a building site, didn't have the ladders fixed or footed, so it was just a polite but stern word in our ears.
Had to do the rest of the site with someone footing the ladders, took ages!!!
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on February 23, 2010, 05:36:29 pm
speak for your  self roger :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just didn't want Tosh to feel "different" ;D
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: elite mike on February 23, 2010, 05:41:59 pm
speak for your  self roger :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just didn't want Tosh to feel "different" ;D

no more tea at tosh,s for you rog ;) ;D
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on February 23, 2010, 05:55:13 pm
Always tasted of Rohypnol anyway...
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: bad trippy on February 23, 2010, 05:55:46 pm
Only on site work when i was plumbing
On site the health and safety officer is a right pain in the backside, very often making your work even more dangereous.
As regards cleaning windows never seen anybody
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 23, 2010, 05:58:02 pm
back on the topic, a few voted that they had officials jar them, so what was the outcome how did things go? I was on a ladder, on a high-street today doing flats above shops, no probs at all.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: elite mike on February 23, 2010, 06:04:25 pm
Always tasted of Rohypnol anyway...

No, that was the 'man fat'  ;)

ive got to log off before i wet myself  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

back on topic , i do a bit for avon council, and the new boss of the place i clean

advised me to go over to the pole system or lose the job :o

 
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: adixon on February 23, 2010, 11:04:40 pm
I read on here a whle ago that someone was cleaning property wfp had his signs out and a H & S inspectoer said that was good but he needed signs stating that he had signs out ::) wind up or not i dont know made me laugh
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: JSMC on February 24, 2010, 01:16:54 pm
I read on here a whle ago that someone was cleaning property wfp had his signs out and a H & S inspectoer said that was good but he needed signs stating that he had signs out ::) wind up or not i dont know made me laugh

wind up. sure we done something at college rwagrding this one night on my nebosh course. we were discussing if someone fell over  warning cones or soemthing. Was interesting and funny
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: formb on February 25, 2010, 10:37:53 am


So just a quick yes/no if you have or haven't had anyone speak to you about proper use of a ladder, who was an official e.g. Health and safety officer or from the council.

Now I mean just walked up to you on the street, not meeting with HS after an accident or fall from a ladder, as its pretty much given if an employee had an accident they would do a little digging.
Quote

YES

Last year I was cleaning a shop front and the flat above with wfp. A council numpty in a hi viz jacket told me I has to stop as my hoses were creating a trip hazard. Not a problem I said I'll just get my ladder.... No he tells me I cannot use a ladder as first I would have to apply to the council for a licence to erect a ladder in the street, first submitting my risk assessment (which I do have, but it says to use wfp, much safer).

The final outcome was I told him to **** off and he did. Cleaned them every month since, not a peep from the high viz hero.

Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: gerard mcmanus on February 25, 2010, 12:38:26 pm
Thats kind of the answer I was looking for, and think allot the people that posted yes would have had a similar situation. No fine or action taken just a guy being a nusence quoting rules with no intention of taking in further because of the larger implications of it. One window cleaner gets told he cant use a larder on a street and is fined for it, legally they would have just demolished the industry with one poke to far, and inevitably less tax being paid to the government, and allot more on the dole. Then guess what, no windies to whined up no more need for the check box guys either.
Title: Re: Excuse me, I am a H+S official...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on February 25, 2010, 03:14:51 pm
One window cleaner gets told he cant use a larder on a street and is fined for it,
I sometimes take lunch with me, but that's excessive. ;D

I agree with the post though, they won't do much. There's no "law"