Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: geefree on February 22, 2010, 06:48:27 pm
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Hi,
i have a friend due to be made redundant, and he wants to come into partnership with me. its at discussion stage only.
The plan woud be for both of us to canvass excessively from now, ... (we both have canvassing/sales experience)
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build a round for both of us, ...i clean as we go along, and he helps saturday , we then split it two ways until he finishes his present job.... as he woud have got half the customers.
then he buys a van, and equipment.... then buys into my existing round.
How does this sound?
Does anyone else work as a partnership?
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I wouldn't.
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most friend partnerships fail or yr friendship
fails i wouidnt
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Gazzasp8
can you guarantee it will be dry every saturday!
You will then have to fit this day into your working week with no help!
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the problem is you have 2 business minds and you are goin to get friction between you like where shall we clean toay and i have got those customers and i will go it alone but if you get on you should get a partnership agreement which is a legal letter stating if it goes bad then the other party cannnot target your custies an so on
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nothing ventured nothing gained, 2talk it over ie: the pros n cons like adults :P
& it will b fine. as long as ur on the same level m8 its all good, if not walk away.
im just about 2do the same, worked 2gether quite a few times now.... rite laugh ;D
but we know we want the same things. good luck m8. i wish u both all the best
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Hi
I'm Jenny - the other half of A & J Owen. I used to do HR/legal type stuff - prior to doing this!
You need to make it totally legal and above board with a Partnership agreement. You might be able to get some templates off the internet to avoid solicitors costs. You would also need to record which clients you'd got and which clients he'd got so there could be no dispute later as to who 'owned' which clients.
Just make sure you're both equally committed to it also
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Hi,
i have a friend due to be made redundant, and he wants to come into partnership with me. its at discussion stage only.
The plan woud be for both of us to canvass excessively from now, ... (we both have canvassing/sales experience)
..
build a round for both of us, ...i clean as we go along, and he helps saturday , we then split it two ways until he finishes his present job.... as he woud have got half the customers.
then he buys a van, and equipment.... then buys into my existing round.
How does this sound?
Does anyone else work as a partnership?
sound strange to me at the minute you have a full round i persume , you are now going canvass with a friend until
you have another full round therefore if added togather you would own 3/4 of the round he would own a 1/4 so if he buys the other quater to split it in half you are back were you are now with a few quid in your pocket
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your the one with the know how and at the moment he has no idea. if i was you id get your mate to give you the cash injection at the beginning,not at the end. that way even if it doesnt pan out and he decides to goes it alone, you havnt wasted your energy for nowt .
<a friend of mine ran a small yet profitable sandblasting biz for many years and then a fella wanted in and they got a proper legal agreement but then the new guy found he couldnt hack sandblasting and wouldnt pay his instalments and in the end it all folded and my friend ended up packing bread in a factory / if only my mate had got the money up front
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Growth is a problem, you'll hit the vat threshold in no time and this will be a 10% brake on earnings.
Admin on a large round is quite heavy.No money is earned for this.
You must already know the work i horrible. If you have the excuse will you slope off from tool work in favour of swanning around being a boss?
I have a helper but if i stop so does he.Even if i want to sort the list out while he does one house resentment creeps in.I have to work twice as hard as him to earn only half as much again as i could on my own.
You go on holiday for two weeks will you have a business to come back to?
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Thanks for the replies so far,
most seem to be negative, but very helpful,..
just wanting your valued opinions on this, please keep them coming.
At the moment i dont think there is anyone on here who work this way.
apart from man and wife teams.,
he is also my brother in law as well as a friend.
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Hi,
i have a friend due to be made redundant, and he wants to come into partnership with me. its at discussion stage only.
The plan woud be for both of us to canvass excessively from now, ... (we both have canvassing/sales experience)
..
build a round for both of us, ...i clean as we go along, and he helps saturday , we then split it two ways until he finishes his present job.... as he woud have got half the customers.
then he buys a van, and equipment.... then buys into my existing round.
How does this sound?
Does anyone else work as a partnership?
sound strange to me at the minute you have a full round i persume , you are now going canvass with a friend until
you have another full round therefore if added togather you would own 3/4 of the round he would own a 1/4 so if he buys the other quater to split it in half you are back were you are now with a few quid in your pocket
The round will be vast, and i will end up with more than a few quid,... plus the fact that it will be much easier to build and move forward with two hard working blokes, and we would push each other. ??
its my way of looking on the positive side, i may be kidding myself, thanks for the reply.
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he is also my brother in law as well as a friend
Don`t mean a thing gazzasp8 i worked with my brother inlaw i he wanted to change things around he was constantly saying would it not be better if we did this and that in the end we could not work together but nothing to stop you trying to see how it works for you!
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Perhaps start out by employing him.
Then you will see how well you work together. And weather or not it would be a wise decision to "partner up"
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your the one with the know how and at the moment he has no idea. if i was you id get your mate to give you the cash injection at the beginning,not at the end. that way even if it doesnt pan out and he decides to goes it alone, you havnt wasted your energy for nowt .
The trouble with him giving me the money up front, is i would have to give him half of my existing earnings immediately... and i cannot afford to stand that....and his money would not be in the pot anyway, at this stage...... it only comes into play, when the new round is complete.....and i have to merge it all together.
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can anyone see any positives,?
~growth,
~ makes you work harder earn more (incentive)
~ company.
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Old saying in business...NEVER WORK WITH FRIENDS OR FAMILY....it will all end in tears :'( :'( :'(
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Ive been working with my best pal for years now, he has his own round and i have mine, we do a day about, one day on his round then one day on mine.
At the end of the week we add up the total and lets say if ive done a hundred quid more on my work i give him £50 or vice versa, he still collects all his own round and i still collect mine.
On some streets we both have houses in there but still only do the ones that are each others run, we never mix the rounds up just incase of any argueing as we can just go our seperate ways.
We have worked like this for years and we wouldnt change it always happy in our work so i must be lucky to have such a good pal.
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You will grow, and have holiday cover.
The other downside is he will know all your biz and any fiddles, so if you do fall out you better be clean as a whistle.
Growth is hard work, but there are better ways than you suggest, such as money on branding and advertising.
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can anyone see any positives,?
~growth,
~ makes you work harder earn more (incentive)
~ company.
i started a few years back working for my dad , after he passed away i was left with the round and one of my brothers gave me a hand part time where i was employing him . it was a lot of pressure and worry trying to please such a large customer base near enough single handedly eventually he stepped aside and let one of my other brothers come in and work with me full time , i made him an equal partner he was my brother after all. i have no regrets we both get on well together and also keep each other wright its nice to know if im sick or go on holiday he there to keep things ticking over. i was making more money employing the other bro part time and would be making more now if i was solo especially now im wfp but im happy and enjoy my work so really thats all that matters also if i was ever diagnosed with any long term illness i would have the choice of employing someone with my brother there to watch over him still bringing me in a wage so like i said earlier no regrets
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I am in a partnership and it works fine 100% no probs ever, well i threw my dummy out once as i did 1 very messy upstairs window when my mate was in the van having a tea! We have been in a partnership for 3 years, and infact we have even let a friend of mine buy in and now we are 3 partners, 2 vans and 1 other employee!
A few things to consider:-
decision making - What are you going to do if you cant agree???
Sounds silly but we have had this discussion originally as a 2 man team and we decided the only way was to flick a coin, sounds stupid but how do you decide who knocks on awkward doors or who has to chase monies owed up etc etc, not major decisions but trivial day to day stuff
Buying in
We agreed an initial amount and i bought into the round from day 1, you want to be singing from the same hymn sheet from the start, if he has financial investment he will give 110% all the time like you!
Partnership agreement
We have done this to cover our selves, even silly stuff is on it but get it out in the open from day 1, not 3 months down the line. Even silly stuff like days off, working hours, who looks after the books, how much £ if one partner wants out, etc etc
It sounds trivial but we didn’t want to have a falling out about anything so have it all in black and white signed by all 3 of us.
Personally for us it was the best thing we could have done, going to a 3 partnership team means we now have 2 vans and the employee is always “looked after” by one of us :-) Plus all the costs are now 1/3rd and yes profits are also 1/3rd but we are now earning more for less days work as we can get round all our customers on time, we have gone from over 20 days to 12/13 days work a month, leaving loads more room for growth!
So I say if you can have an honest discussion about where you want the business to go and can get it all agreed go for it!
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can anyone see any positives,?
~growth,
~ makes you work harder earn more (incentive)
~ company.
Yes i an see all these positives in the short term. It is once everything / info starts geetting known by all that i belive would be the most vulnerable part of a partnership.
ANything he cam bring to the company can be achieved as an employee, with incentives. It is handing over the reins to the horse that resntment and conflict is most likely to keep in.
You don't need to give half of all you've woked for, to make use of those skills. You have down ALL of the hard work by getting this far.
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mgba- impressed
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me2 8)
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One thing worth bearing in mind: in a partnership if one (or more) partner(s) disappear, the Inland Revenue will come after the remaining partner for the absconding partner's share of the tax/NI owing.
It's one business in the eyes of the HMRC and each partner is 'jointly and severally' responsible for paying any tax due.
Make sure you consult a solicitor before doing anything else: you wouldn't want the Revenue repossessing your house to pay your friend/brother's tax bill would you?
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Thanks for your advice, the more i read , and learn opinions... the more i feel that,
i may keep my existing round to myself, and build a round with him, and keep mine seperate,...
otherwise i am building a round splitting it in two, merging it with mine......and not earning much more than now...in other words creating work for someone, and having a partner to worry about., with little more benefit.
i would like a way round this..... , and i will get it all written up legally, i dont fiddle my books, so nothing to worry about there.
any more partnerships out there?
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By far the simplest (and safest) way is to have two completely separate rounds - different name, separate bank accounts, different trading addresses. If you want to work together that's fine, just keep your own customers on your own separate books.
It's all about keeping proper records - you must be able to show that there are two genuine separate businesses with complete and accurate records for each one.
Working side by side is fine, but it would be better if you only worked 'one man per house' that way you're not sharing the work - you would also get more done as two men on one house can't do it half the time it takes one man on his own.
All the benefits of having someone to work alongside with none of the hassle of a partnership.
Also if two of you are in partnership you will reach the VAT limit twice as quickly!!
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Thanks for your advice, the more i read , and learn opinions... the more i feel that,
i may keep my existing round to myself, and build a round with him, and keep mine seperate,...
otherwise i am building a round splitting it in two, merging it with mine......and not earning much more than now...in other words creating work for someone, and having a partner to worry about., with little more benefit.
i would like a way round this..... , and i will get it all written up legally, i dont fiddle my books, so nothing to worry about there.
any more partnerships out there?
good idea gazza, if it works out you can throw your round in too and let him buy in or have in writing it still is yours if you split but for now do that and keep it seperate!
i started in partnership and didnt fall out greatly but was awkward he was experienced and i was new but i was good at bringing in customers, i tried to get things in writing but it didnt happen so it was awkward settling up at the end, i paid back what hed put in but he still felt done so not been so friednly since
i wouldnt do it again
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my mate is a partnetr in an plstering business, and hates it, if one has time off the other ahs to work harder yet they still get half the money, my mate wanted to insure his car throught the business, so had to insure his mates dads car to make it even, other wise one was geting more than the other. might seem like petty things but where do u draw the line at what can one have more than the other
the partner is in that much debt that he wants to go bankrupt, but my mate will be stuck with loads of business debt, why we walks away
i would just employe him, get a van gear and build a round for him, then if he wants to buy it off you then fair enough
working wth family can cause lots of problems, espicaly if it goes sour
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Well i am glad i asked, because apart from a couple of pluses, there does not seem to be many positives to be taken out of this,
i cant afford to employ him, not until an other round is built.... and i am now turning off the idea of partnership.....
Thanks for your help
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good luck with wot ever u deside m8 ;)
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mgba- impressed
Thanks :)
I must admit, i do think the way we work is an exception to the rule. And w/c as a whole doesnt need to be run as partnerships to make decent money, you can earn very very good money on your own so why add the pressure and potential mess of involving someone else.
For us we want a fleet of vans with our name on but we want to take a little time to achieve this as we dont want it to crumble as soon as we make it, so for us the next step is another van and we have a partner and an employee in each van.
Gazzasp8, for me a partnership is all about everything 50/50 anything less or more either way will always end up being resented by the partner who is the lesser %
You need to work out how or if you will be better off in a partnership or not, financially and work wise, as after all if your not going to make that much more ££££ out of it why do it? You could just help your mate set up and help each otherand if needed or even he pays youto help him canvass???
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I think i would go down the route of helping eachother out with canvassing to build two good rounds and then both go your seperate ways you can then help eachother out as and when but full partnership a wide birth me thinks
just my opinion
andy
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I started a business a couple of years after leaving school and then went into partnership with my best mate from school for over 20 years. Total trust and a successful business between us throughout those years. I always thought that was going to be it until retirement.
He then married late into a 'business' family. Twelve months later I was out on my ear. It was more or less a case of - leave or lose your house. At the disolvement meeting, I was given £5 to make it legal after all those years. The business has continued to thrive until it was sold recently.
My solicitor couldn't find any way of getting me out of the situation.
Much longer story than that but be warned. I've never really fully recovered from that experience.
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Hi mate
i am starting a partnership with a good friend of mine and i have thought about the effect it might have between us but to honest, i think if you both want the same thing and are willing to put 100% in then you should not have to many problems. Dont get wrong i am under no elusions that at some time or another that there will be disagreement and we will both spit our dummies out at some piont but as long as you are both adult about it and talk i through i cant see why i would not work.
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well said m8 ;D