Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 02:09:46 pm

Title: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 02:09:46 pm
Our leetle old town (Frome, Somerset) has a population of 24000. On the smallish side, yet Ironics have now sold 3 van systems here. This Reach & Wash trade mark is now worth diddly squat & now these 3 chaps are gonna find it tough to get the custies. If they were trulyconcernrd for their own customers then they wouldn't have done this & I reckon if one fails he could chase ironics through the courts as they led him to beleive there were rich pickings on the back of the exclusivity of the Reach & Wash Logo.

Kevin.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: telboy on February 19, 2010, 02:19:32 pm
Rubbish ???
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: Ian Lancaster on February 19, 2010, 02:30:23 pm
Ditto ;D

Ionics do not promise any sort of exclusivity.  If they did they would have to guarantee there were no other window cleaners using any sort of similar system in the area of each sale.

Just because someone who lives in Fome bought a system doesn't restrict them to working only in Frome

GB (or UK if you prefer) is a big place ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: idealrob on February 19, 2010, 02:33:55 pm
Rubbish again. What is it the most nutters want to moan about ionics, is it jelousy, i think so. we have ionics system and are over the moon with them from start to finnish, the have really helped our business. But you get nutters, and i really mean that, nutters moaning about selling 3 systems. No one is being forced against their will to buy them.
maybe a sensible w,c saw how good a sstem it is and decided to buy the same quality product, maybe , dont know and dont care

idealrob
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: poleman on February 19, 2010, 02:43:23 pm
Rubbish again!  ::)
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: idealrob on February 19, 2010, 02:46:00 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation



http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: luther1 on February 19, 2010, 02:49:02 pm
8000 customers per Ionics system. Not a bad round imo! ;)
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: daz1977 on February 19, 2010, 03:13:40 pm
hi kevin, i hope ur right, because then i will sue gardiners and wintecs as there is an other wc in my village using wfp, do u think i would have a case, ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: sparklebright on February 19, 2010, 03:18:49 pm
I can't see that the guy could sue ionics, unless they promised he was the only one around. Which I doubt

After all before you make that sort of investment it's up to you to check around and see who else uses it. Do a bit of research.

And of course the good thing is the system is in a van, so it moves on wheels to other towns for work. ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 19, 2010, 03:20:10 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation



http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob

do Ironics have a exclusive right on every term to do with "hot" ? ? ?

THE HOTTIE

its because he uses hot water

why would they sue ? ?  ? ?
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: paul rulton on February 19, 2010, 03:55:27 pm
i dont c wot the prob is ??? as pro wc's we dont tread on other wc's toes.
there is plenty of work out 4every1. nothin wrong wiv abit of comp, would
rather b up against another wc in stead of all this poo weather we ave had. ;D
after all we r all in the same bloody boat ::)
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 03:59:02 pm
Our leetle old town (Frome, Somerset) has a population of 24000. On the smallish side, yet Ironics have now sold 3 van systems here. This Reach & Wash trade mark is now worth diddly squat & now these 3 chaps are gonna find it tough to get the custies. If they were trulyconcernrd for their own customers then they wouldn't have done this & I reckon if one fails he could chase ironics through the courts as they led him to beleive there were rich pickings on the back of the exclusivity of the Reach & Wash Logo.

Kevin.

have you ever bought a ionics system ? because i have, and they never told me this fact about aman with a pole in his hand, and i will get load of work.

I dont know where you get your information from but after a look at your home made "Hottie" system, i think the 3 guys will be happy they got a ionics system.

I dont know where this exclusivity comes from? can you explain or show me whrere ionics have said this? as i would really like to know.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 04:05:33 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation



http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob

do Ironics have a exclusive right on every term to do with "hot" ? ? ?

THE HOTTIE

its because he uses hot water

why would they sue ? ?  ? ?

I think you have got a bit confused here matt, I dont think robert is on about the term "hot" but more that kevin is slandering ionics, with information that "could" be untrue,

Ionics could happly ask kevin where the idea of the exclusivity is about there logo.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: sgibsoncleaning on February 19, 2010, 04:21:03 pm
Ionics is not a franchise deal. the sell wfp units. its not in their interest to limit the number of people who buy. do you turn down a customer because you have the alocated ammount per window cleaner per area. its dog eat dog out there sorry folks its a business and everyones out to make a quid.
good luck to anyone who has spent a large ammount  on a wfp set up without getting the customers they need to survive. i see a lot of people lately who have started and invested a huge sum of money into a business then start to panic when they cant work because its snowing.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: drwindows on February 19, 2010, 04:30:36 pm
I think your getting confused with franchising.  If you buy a franchise usually the comapny agrees not to sell another franchise in your given area.  Ionics dont sell a franchise, just reach and wash machines.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 04:42:56 pm
I think your getting confused with franchising.  If you buy a franchise usually the comapny agrees not to sell another franchise in your given area.  Ionics dont sell a franchise, just reach and wash machines.

100% right, ionics dont franchise, they just water fed pole supplies
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy) on February 19, 2010, 04:55:14 pm
i am selling harris pole adaptors now on my shop site (five quid each).......i gaurantee that whoever buys one will have an exclusivity agreement....no one else in any town will have the exact adaptor as each other........and thats a promise......they may look the same, but they are not the exact same (i have got all the angles covered by consulting my lawyers on that one 8))

so no fighting over who has the only harris pole adaptor from wfpshop (.com)  ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: ftp on February 19, 2010, 04:56:03 pm
New start ups Kevin or existing windy's?

I've seen a couple of big units in your town - can't remember which systems they have. One hardly ever seems to move  ???
If they are new then I wouldn't worry too much about competition 'cos they won't be able to undercut due to the high expense.
There's one ionics in my town and two others a couple of miles down the road and another two big van systems at least in my town.
Two more Ionics sytems in Radstock or over that way.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 19, 2010, 05:13:26 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation  


http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob

... sues you for defarmation? What's that idealrob; I know kevin comes from carrotcruncher land but he doesn't go round stealing farms! ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 05:20:33 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation  


http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob

... sues you for defarmation? What's that idealrob; I know kevin comes from carrotcruncher land but he doesn't go round stealing farms! ;D

Have a look here
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: ftp on February 19, 2010, 05:22:00 pm
No it's Defarmation
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 19, 2010, 05:22:24 pm
I know James Turnbull - but look at his spelling!  ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 05:24:29 pm
ahh right matey, did catch ya there lol
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 19, 2010, 05:37:51 pm
Our leetle old town (Frome, Somerset) has a population of 24000. On the smallish side, yet Ironics have now sold 3 van systems here. This Reach & Wash trade mark is now worth diddly squat & now these 3 chaps are gonna find it tough to get the custies. If they were trulyconcernrd for their own customers then they wouldn't have done this & I reckon if one fails he could chase ironics through the courts as they led him to beleive there were rich pickings on the back of the exclusivity of the Reach & Wash Logo.

Kevin.
















24,000 eh    well surely they cant all be as dim witted as you  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 19, 2010, 05:42:07 pm
Of course stephen s if the ionics guys let their custies cancel a clean at the drop of a hat that will erode their base too!  ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 05:47:51 pm
Ditto ;D

Ionics do not promise any sort of exclusivity.  If they did they would have to guarantee there were no other window cleaners using any sort of similar system in the area of each sale.

Just because someone who lives in Fome bought a system doesn't restrict them to working only in Frome
 ;D

if ironics send out solicitors letters to anyone using this logo who hasn't their gear & so are prepared to spend money in the courts defending this logo, then surely they place a high value on it? Thus value will only be maintained if there us some scacity value. If areas are flooded with the gear then a pricewar ensues & everyone loses Inc ironics.  If you're seriously in business then you follow a business plan. They ain't following no plan & in fact are shooting themselves in the foot.
My littlle hobo system will outlast & outquote these vans & I feel for the poor dupes who will end ip in fleabay.

Kevin
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: ftp on February 19, 2010, 05:49:53 pm
POPCORN MOTHER!
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 19, 2010, 05:52:11 pm
Ditto ;D

Ionics do not promise any sort of exclusivity.  If they did they would have to guarantee there were no other window cleaners using any sort of similar system in the area of each sale.

Just because someone who lives in Fome bought a system doesn't restrict them to working only in Frome
 ;D

if ironics send out solicitors letters to anyone using this logo who hasn't their gear & so are prepared to spend money in the courts defending this logo, then surely they place a high value on it? Thus value will only be maintained if there us some scacity value. If areas are flooded with the gear then a pricewar ensues & everyone loses Inc ironics.  If you're seriously in business then you follow a business plan. They ain't following no plan & in fact are shooting themselves in the foot.
My littlle hobo system will outlast & outquote these vans & I feel for the poor dupes who will end ip in fleabay.

Kevin
















you have a business plan ? WOW that changes the whole complaction of this topic,     I must subscribe to your mailing lists
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 19, 2010, 06:00:32 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation  


http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob

... sues you for defarmation? What's that idealrob; I know kevin comes from carrotcruncher land but he doesn't go round stealing farms! ;D

 ;D ;D ;D

its all the rage, a good earner to store caravans on by all accounts

Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 19, 2010, 06:18:54 pm
Of course stephen s if the ionics guys let their custies cancel a clean at the drop of a hat that will erode their base too!  ;D















they don't need to drop hats mate, they just tell me on the phone saves me a journey and I can just book something else in,   a little communication can make all the differnce.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 19, 2010, 06:20:44 pm
I dont know you kevin and bear no grudge, but to say thet Ionics in legal danger ? id a joke after your you wfp system, have a look at the h & safety issues on that thing, the list is too long to say what you could sue for and I hope ionics sues you for defarmation



http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=90078.0#msg804543


Definetly a nutte*

idealrob

do Ironics have a exclusive right on every term to do with "hot" ? ? ?

THE HOTTIE

its because he uses hot water

why would they sue ? ?  ? ?

I think you have got a bit confused here matt, I dont think robert is on about the term "hot" but more that kevin is slandering ionics, with information that "could" be untrue,

Ionics could happly ask kevin where the idea of the exclusivity is about there logo.

i am not sure, as why did he include the link to the "Hottie" ? ??

Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 07:01:53 pm
Ditto ;D

Ionics do not promise any sort of exclusivity.  If they did they would have to guarantee there were no other window cleaners using any sort of similar system in the area of each sale.

Just because someone who lives in Fome bought a system doesn't restrict them to working only in Frome
 ;D

if ironics send out solicitors letters to anyone using this logo who hasn't their gear & so are prepared to spend money in the courts defending this logo, then surely they place a high value on it? Thus value will only be maintained if there us some scacity value. If areas are flooded with the gear then a pricewar ensues & everyone loses Inc ironics.  If you're seriously in business then you follow a business plan. They ain't following no plan & in fact are shooting themselves in the foot.
My littlle hobo system will outlast & outquote these vans & I feel for the poor dupes who will end ip in fleabay.

Kevin



Ionics have a right to stop people using there logo, if they dont have a ionics system, Regardless of this you should starting knocking companys for selling there products, Does it matter if 3 people have a certain type of make of WFP system, how many people have a pure freedom or brodex system, or a i dont see you telling us that fig?,
Ionics is not a franchise, anyone can buy one for their system, same as purefreedom and brodex, Its in there best interest to sell as many as pos.
Ionics never tell there customer that there logo makes them money. I don’t understand where you got that from?????
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: Count Phil on February 19, 2010, 07:05:17 pm
Given a choice between the hottie at a few hundred quid and an ionics at 8k i'm afraid it has to be the ionics. And i'm a diyer.

Sorry. Why not take a look at their brochure?
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 19, 2010, 07:06:59 pm
Ditto ;D

Ionics do not promise any sort of exclusivity.  If they did they would have to guarantee there were no other window cleaners using any sort of similar system in the area of each sale.

Just because someone who lives in Fome bought a system doesn't restrict them to working only in Frome
 ;D

if ironics send out solicitors letters to anyone using this logo who hasn't their gear & so are prepared to spend money in the courts defending this logo, then surely they place a high value on it? Thus value will only be maintained if there us some scacity value. If areas are flooded with the gear then a pricewar ensues & everyone loses Inc ironics.  If you're seriously in business then you follow a business plan. They ain't following no plan & in fact are shooting themselves in the foot.
My littlle hobo system will outlast & outquote these vans & I feel for the poor dupes who will end ip in fleabay.

Kevin



Ionics never tell there customer that there logo makes them money. I don’t understand where you got that from?????


salesmen will tell the customer what they think they want to hear, that can not be disputed

i have sat in on a sales demo van presentation, the salesman was coming out will all great things, some of it was laughable to be honest and the guy who was having the demo rolled his eyes a few times

Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 07:18:35 pm
That never happend to me when i got my system,

I just looked around the market, thought ionics was a little bit more money than every else, so when to brodex, the guy took to long to get back to me, so when to ionce and they jsut quote me a price, no fancy sales pitchs and none of this "this system will make me £50 for a council house" stuff.

The thing is, im happy for DIY people, it shows a lot when you can build a system up for a lot cheaper and make it to your own spec, but it doesnt give certain people the right to knock system that they absolutely know nothing about.

We should start a thread to knock DIY system and see how they like it, i know a certain system that i would like to start with, i think it has "hot" in it some where.

Ionics make good system for people who want to buy them, they dont force people to have there systems.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 07:34:18 pm
Aaaghh James,

I wasn't knocking the ionics system at all. It's very good quality.
My halfpenny worth was over the fact that they seem to lack integrity.
We have youngsters round here who, due to their age, are naive enough to buy lovely systems without good business plans.
A responsible firm, I would hope, would help them succeed and I doubt whether that's happening from the evidence round here. I had a business failure many moons ago & it ain't pretty. Why can't business have a heart? I dont go for dog eat dog.

Kevin.   
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: SimonMoore on February 19, 2010, 08:45:42 pm
lol
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 19, 2010, 08:48:58 pm
lol i may be young but no way am i naive,

lol

those vans are mine im doing fine thanks dont think there end up on ebay any time soon pmsl.

 I think theres more like than 4 or 5 ionics vans  in frome

i was never under any faulse impression that having them would get me more work.

I was never sold a territory, i dont need anyone to tell me where im allowed to clean windows as i am my own boss.

Anyone buying an ionics van or diy, can fail at this, but having professional tools has paid off in my case anyway.
Ive built my customer base in a matter of months tbh not many people care how you clean the windows resi as long as you do a good job, but for commercial the system is impressive to look at and really sells it self .
it looks good for them to have us parked outside cleaning their windows.
I was recently in a car crash and if i had an unsecured ton of water hurling at me i would be finished.I very nearly was anyway. I paid the extra for the crash testing alone i am happy to do so.
i hate all this ionics bashing

















well said mate.

sadly this forum has quite a few so called w/cs who dislike anyone spending money on a well made system and fitted safely with your safety in mind.         when their not knocking Ionics they are usually knocking their own customers for wanting to leave a clean for a month    same old moaning people over and over

never mind its the weekend        and I'm working saturday with my Ionics pro 5 thermapure  and that has picked me work up  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: ftp on February 19, 2010, 08:50:33 pm
I can't keep up with all this deleting  ???
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: ftp on February 19, 2010, 08:52:00 pm
................................................................. so the conclusion of all this is Frome is the windowcleaning hub of the world at the moment.  ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: JamesTurnbull on February 19, 2010, 09:14:56 pm
lol i may be young but no way am i naive,

lol

those vans are mine im doing fine thanks dont think there end up on ebay any time soon pmsl.

 I think theres more like than 4 or 5 ionics vans  in frome

i was never under any faulse impression that having them would get me more work.

I was never sold a territory, i dont need anyone to tell me where im allowed to clean windows as i am my own boss.

Anyone buying an ionics van or diy, can fail at this, but having professional tools has paid off in my case anyway.
Ive built my customer base in a matter of months tbh not many people care how you clean the windows resi as long as you do a good job, but for commercial the system is impressive to look at and really sells it self .
it looks good for them to have us parked outside cleaning their windows.
I was recently in a car crash and if i had an unsecured ton of water hurling at me i would be finished.I very nearly was anyway. I paid the extra for the crash testing alone i am happy to do so.
i hate all this ionics bashing

















well said mate.

sadly this forum has quite a few so called w/cs who dislike anyone spending money on a well made system and fitted safely with your safety in mind.         when their not knocking Ionics they are usually knocking their own customers for wanting to leave a clean for a month    same ols moaning people over and over

never mind its the weekend        and I'm working saturday with my Ionics pro 5 thermapure  and that has picked me work up  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/color]

I bet it was your logo mate, like my ionics one, people jsut look at it and want me to clean there window, do you find the same??? lol  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: bluez on February 19, 2010, 09:15:17 pm
Im thinking of sueing Toyota as my next door neighbour has just bought one and at least 5 others on my street have them as well. Have Toyota no shame? Where is their integrity?


Come on lad get a grip!!
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 19, 2010, 09:41:05 pm
lol i may be young but no way am i naive,

lol

those vans are mine im doing fine thanks dont think there end up on ebay any time soon pmsl.

 I think theres more like than 4 or 5 ionics vans  in frome

i was never under any faulse impression that having them would get me more work.

I was never sold a territory, i dont need anyone to tell me where im allowed to clean windows as i am my own boss.

Anyone buying an ionics van or diy, can fail at this, but having professional tools has paid off in my case anyway.
Ive built my customer base in a matter of months tbh not many people care how you clean the windows resi as long as you do a good job, but for commercial the system is impressive to look at and really sells it self .
it looks good for them to have us parked outside cleaning their windows.
I was recently in a car crash and if i had an unsecured ton of water hurling at me i would be finished.I very nearly was anyway. I paid the extra for the crash testing alone i am happy to do so.
i hate all this ionics bashing

















well said mate.

sadly this forum has quite a few so called w/cs who dislike anyone spending money on a well made system and fitted safely with your safety in mind.         when their not knocking Ionics they are usually knocking their own customers for wanting to leave a clean for a month    same ols moaning people over and over

never mind its the weekend        and I'm working saturday with my Ionics pro 5 thermapure  and that has picked me work up  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/color]

I bet it was your logo mate, like my ionics one, people jsut look at it and want me to clean there window, do you find the same??? lol  ;D ;D ;D














Ive actually been asked to open a new supermarket because of my Ionics system and I'm finding women are starting to throw their knickers at me  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 09:48:03 pm
Im thinking of sueing Toyota as my next door neighbour has just bought one and at least 5 others on my street have them as well. Have Toyota no shame? Where is their integrity?


Come on lad get a grip!!

are all these toyotas being used as taxi's?
Then the case is comparable.

Else you're drivelling.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: Clive McDonald on February 19, 2010, 09:57:02 pm
The guys obviously built this up in his own mind, the idea firstly that it is some kind of franchise, and secondly that people in it have been suckered.

The ionics people i have seen all do well.The difference is only a few thousand.

The same goes for his quad system, he's built it up in his own mind that people like myself (square signwritten white van people) lack the imagination or bravery to do what he has done.I think a van is easier, and i would be wary of customers perceptions of me.

I have never really 'got' the quad bike, or Matt's vw van, but felt a little mean saying so.Without being cruel if ionics wanted a humourous poster depicting DIY efforts in a negative compare and contrast way with one of their pro systems they needn't look much further than the hottie.

 
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 10:15:45 pm
Well, the only way to tell which business models are succesful is the passage of time.

The recession is not over yet, unemployment levels are said to peak this year. This means more folks trying to support their families anyway they can. Window cleaning is one of the easiest ways & ladders are not illegal. Any system which requires charging a custie way more than the ladder guys doesn't make economic sense for new entrants, without a good customer base. My point is it's irresponsible to sell, sell, sell without helping the newbie see all the diffuculities ahead. Such as too many businesses with the same marketing tool.

You may not see the point of the quad but 800 custies around here do. And there's nothing to beat it fir parking in Bath.

Kevin   
 
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 19, 2010, 10:36:34 pm


I have never really 'got' the quad bike, or Matt's vw van, but felt a little mean saying so.
 

my VW van is a campervan ( a caravan with its own engine ), whats not to get  ?? ? ? ? its a van that gets me from a - b - c and i can camp in it, forget the fact that its over 50 years old, forget the fact thats it's Iconic ( yes i spelt it right ;) )

whats not to get ? ? ? , take a drive in spring time, 1 out of 10 vehicles on the road seem to be a caravan or campervan, seriously, you must have added my name to get me drawn into this discussion

Kevins hottie looks like a fun vehicle, i am sure people around frome know him as the quad window cleaner, Slumpy, you have been an about building a brand name and getting known, Kevin has done this, he is the quad window cleaner
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 19, 2010, 10:41:15 pm
Slumps - on another post you complimented me on my writing style - your last post has succinctly and superbly put the case for the way you have done things wfp. I'm genuinely impressed.

Kevin - you have just as succinctly put the case for your way of doing things too. And I'm just as impressed with that too.

And matt's contribution ticks those boxes too.

There are several ways to skin a cat I believe and while I have a leaning towards the DiY approach I also run my system  from what was 3 years ago a new van with an SLX at the sharp end.

I am at present wary of DiY'ing hot water as I don't want to do a "Casey Jones"  ;D - but I'd certainly employ a qualified plumber to oversee an adaption of what I've got.

Going back to the original question - Are Ionics in legal danger? No, I don't think so.

Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 19, 2010, 10:45:15 pm
lol i may be young but no way am i naive,

lol

those vans are mine im doing fine thanks dont think there end up on ebay any time soon pmsl.

 I think theres more like than 4 or 5 ionics vans  in frome

i was never under any faulse impression that having them would get me more work.

I was never sold a territory, i dont need anyone to tell me where im allowed to clean windows as i am my own boss.

Anyone buying an ionics van or diy, can fail at this, but having professional tools has paid off in my case anyway.
Ive built my customer base in a matter of months tbh not many people care how you clean the windows resi as long as you do a good job, but for commercial the system is impressive to look at and really sells it self .
it looks good for them to have us parked outside cleaning their windows.
I was recently in a car crash and if i had an unsecured ton of water hurling at me i would be finished.I very nearly was anyway. I paid the extra for the crash testing alone i am happy to do so.
i hate all this ionics bashing

















well said mate.

sadly this forum has quite a few so called w/cs who dislike anyone spending money on a well made system and fitted safely with your safety in mind.         when their not knocking Ionics they are usually knocking their own customers for wanting to leave a clean for a month    same ols moaning people over and over


so if you dont spend money on a well made system, your just a "so called w/cs "  ::) ::)

it might be news to you, but you can clean windows with a 30 quid ladder and a sqeegee and mop ( total spend 50 quid ), infact many do

but they cannot be real window cleaners as they havent spent alot of money  ::) ::)

you seem to think because you have spent money you are a real window cleaner and others are not , it doesnt work like that i am afraid
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: Clive McDonald on February 19, 2010, 10:50:40 pm
800 custies is good, that's more than me, you have a degree of individuality and imagination that your customers must find okay.I'm sure that many of them reading this would side entirely with you.

The cost of the system for a business like yours is not a significant factor.You could afford ionics if you wanted to.

Like you I am worried about start ups and the poor economic outlook too.You've taken and stick with the cheapo route and it's paid off for you. i like to invest more and work less hard, but for all i know you may well out earn me and the ionics boys (i don't have an ionics).

Matt agree with you.But does that mean ionics lads are mugs still?

Yes i do go on about building a brand and he has done that very well as you point out, the quad window cleaner is good.The cheapo, crack pot jackpot inventor side is bad.- in brand terms that is.

Agree with Malc too.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 11:01:28 pm
Slumps,

wot do you think to the website?

Lifeonaledge.co.uk?

Kevin.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 19, 2010, 11:13:49 pm
Slumps,

wot do you think to the website?

Lifeonaledge.co.uk?

Kevin.

I love it!

I think the picture of the Bristol Assembly Hall under commercial is stretching a point! How about "We'll clean your church for you!" - err perhaps not!  ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 11:20:09 pm
Aaahhg,

but malc, only a few of us would know it was the assembly hall!
 
Sides it's a good picture of our youngest elder (25)

kevin
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: Clive McDonald on February 19, 2010, 11:26:08 pm
Ahhh, that was a bit of a surprise.It wasn't what i was expecting at all.Yes i was impressed by all aspects of this.

You've taken the wind out of my sails a bit because you've pretty much ace'd every area where i might have put you right.

My own website compared to this is far more of a white van website and my website is the weakest part of my business.

I have to admitt this is branding at a very high level- it never occurred to me that it could be done so well.I have a few ideas too, but i don't like to share them on here.

I still think you are wrong about ionics but other that very well thought through.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 19, 2010, 11:28:40 pm
Thanks slumps.

 Respect.

Kevin.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 19, 2010, 11:32:56 pm
Aaahhg,

but malc, only a few of us would know it was the assembly hall!
 
Sides it's a good picture of our youngest elder (25)

kevin

Busted!  ;D

25! Good grief! I've got older mayonnaise in my fridge!  ;D

Was his appointment due to:-

A) David Hudson's parthian shot to raise the numbers?

B) Kevin Franklin's in a "bring on the youngsters cuz Shakespeare was only 18 when he got married" frame of mind.

 ;D

Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: darren73 on February 19, 2010, 11:51:04 pm
good website kevin,nice bike as well-do you get much work doing greenhouses/polytunnels-seems like a good add-on
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: bluez on February 20, 2010, 12:10:18 am
Kevin,
Neither Ionics or toyota sell money making schemes they sell wc equipment / cars and they are businesses that is their job.

You started this post under the heading Ionics in legal Danger, and then you outlined that by selling to multiple customers in the one area that they were damaging their brand. They dont care about the end users ability to drive or clean windows they care about selling their product.

My analogy is a fair reflection of your misguided assumption.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: idealrob on February 20, 2010, 12:25:23 am
Kevin, you go on about ionics etc, the fact of the matter is your quad & trailer doesnt look like a profesional company, looks amaturish imo. I think that its a risk to the public and a health & safety danger, ionics are thatcham crash tested and and as JW we know life is sacred, thats why we bought ionics one, and as other quoted you put Bristol assembly hall on your website as a commercial, if its the lad in a cardigan, it looks very professional. lol

what do you think of the safety of the public and others how may hurt themselves close by,  by your decking boards, any warning of the hot pipes etc. i could go on.

idealrob
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 20, 2010, 05:19:27 am
Well, the only way to tell which business models are succesful is the passage of time.

The recession is not over yet, unemployment levels are said to peak this year. This means more folks trying to support their families anyway they can. Window cleaning is one of the easiest ways & ladders are not illegal. Any system which requires charging a custie way more than the ladder guys doesn't make economic sense for new entrants, without a good customer base. My point is it's irresponsible to sell, sell, sell without helping the newbie see all the diffuculities ahead. Such as too many businesses with the same marketing tool.

You may not see the point of the quad but 800 custies around here do. And there's nothing to beat it fir parking in Bath.

Kevin   
























your funny  ;D ;D
 

Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 20, 2010, 05:41:41 am
lol i may be young but no way am i naive,

lol

those vans are mine im doing fine thanks dont think there end up on ebay any time soon pmsl.

 I think theres more like than 4 or 5 ionics vans  in frome

i was never under any faulse impression that having them would get me more work.

I was never sold a territory, i dont need anyone to tell me where im allowed to clean windows as i am my own boss.

Anyone buying an ionics van or diy, can fail at this, but having professional tools has paid off in my case anyway.
Ive built my customer base in a matter of months tbh not many people care how you clean the windows resi as long as you do a good job, but for commercial the system is impressive to look at and really sells it self .
it looks good for them to have us parked outside cleaning their windows.
I was recently in a car crash and if i had an unsecured ton of water hurling at me i would be finished.I very nearly was anyway. I paid the extra for the crash testing alone i am happy to do so.
i hate all this ionics bashing

















well said mate.

sadly this forum has quite a few so called w/cs who dislike anyone spending money on a well made system and fitted safely with your safety in mind.         when their not knocking Ionics they are usually knocking their own customers for wanting to leave a clean for a month    same ols moaning people over and over


so if you dont spend money on a well made system, your just a "so called w/cs "  ::) ::)

it might be news to you, but you can clean windows with a 30 quid ladder and a sqeegee and mop ( total spend 50 quid ), infact many do

but they cannot be real window cleaners as they havent spent alot of money  ::) ::)

you seem to think because you have spent money you are a real window cleaner and others are not , it doesnt work like that i am afraid

















I disagree.

but there's no need to be afraid unless it was you who killed Archie Mitchel ?       what was it ? did he ask you not to clean the windows on Xmas day ?    I would drop him if I were you     oh you did do  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 20, 2010, 07:23:09 am
Kevin,
Neither Ionics or toyota sell money making schemes they sell wc equipment / cars and they are businesses that is their job.

You started this post under the heading Ionics in legal Danger, and then you outlined that by selling to multiple customers in the one area that they were damaging their brand. They dont care about the end users ability to drive or clean windows they care about selling their product.

My analogy is a fair reflection of your misguided assumption.

This is the difference between large businesses & small businesses.:
small ones care about the end user, it ensures repeat business & builds close relationships. ( I enjoy my phone calls to Gardiners)
Large ones end up losing their respect for the customer. All smiled during the sale but don't ask  the right questions.
Toyota is a good case in point. They used to sell cars of genuine quality. Their rapid expansion has caused them to take their eye of the important basic things & boy are they in trouble!

If ionics, or any firm fir that matter, don't think if the benefits to their customer base then long term, they're in fir grief.
And ionics do sell money making machines, why else buy one?

Kevin.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 20, 2010, 07:34:48 am

what do you think of the safety of the public and others how may hurt themselves close by,  by your decking boards, any warning of the hot pipes etc. i could go on.

idealrob

if a small child runs into the road, you will have trouble stopping because of the heavy load you're carrying.
I carry 120 litres, enough to last me 4 hours. This has hardly any effect on my stopping distance. And boy does this machine have brakes!

I have excellent all round visibility, can you see the kiddie crouched behind your van during half term?

If you are in a pile up, yes you won't be crushed by the tank but your momentum ( mass x velocity) will crush the family car in front.

I could go on.

I have no exsposed hot pipes. The heater shield remains just warm.
The only risk to the public is a puncture to the hose. But then my flowrate is so low that scalding wouldn't be an issue.

Did you think the website amateurish?

Kevin. 
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: Count Phil on February 20, 2010, 08:55:08 am
What's with the bottle of wine?
How does the free clean go down?
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: kevin James on February 20, 2010, 08:59:33 am
Morning Phil,

the bottle of wine started out as overcoming peep's not being too keen on Fruday night collecting. It's a tenner a week & adds something differnt. Some round here offer free coffees at local establishments.

The free clean doesn't get much take up. Maybe 1 every 2 months. But it does seem to relax folks when they see the site.

Kevin.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 20, 2010, 09:11:27 am
Good answers Kevin - I hate sanctimony whatever it's source - and I think your website is how I would like to portray my business if I had one (website, that is) - competent, friendly and personal.
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: ftp on February 20, 2010, 09:14:04 am
Kev, I quoted one of your free cleans the other day. Don't know what you did wrong but they didn't like it.
Needless to say they didn't get back to me either. Think you frightened them with science.  ;D
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: matt on February 20, 2010, 09:27:20 am
lol i may be young but no way am i naive,

lol

those vans are mine im doing fine thanks dont think there end up on ebay any time soon pmsl.

 I think theres more like than 4 or 5 ionics vans  in frome

i was never under any faulse impression that having them would get me more work.

I was never sold a territory, i dont need anyone to tell me where im allowed to clean windows as i am my own boss.

Anyone buying an ionics van or diy, can fail at this, but having professional tools has paid off in my case anyway.
Ive built my customer base in a matter of months tbh not many people care how you clean the windows resi as long as you do a good job, but for commercial the system is impressive to look at and really sells it self .
it looks good for them to have us parked outside cleaning their windows.
I was recently in a car crash and if i had an unsecured ton of water hurling at me i would be finished.I very nearly was anyway. I paid the extra for the crash testing alone i am happy to do so.
i hate all this ionics bashing

















well said mate.

sadly this forum has quite a few so called w/cs who dislike anyone spending money on a well made system and fitted safely with your safety in mind.         when their not knocking Ionics they are usually knocking their own customers for wanting to leave a clean for a month    same ols moaning people over and over


so if you dont spend money on a well made system, your just a "so called w/cs "  ::) ::)

it might be news to you, but you can clean windows with a 30 quid ladder and a sqeegee and mop ( total spend 50 quid ), infact many do

but they cannot be real window cleaners as they havent spent alot of money  ::) ::)

you seem to think because you have spent money you are a real window cleaner and others are not , it doesnt work like that i am afraid

















I disagree.



serously  ?? ??

so alll the old boys who are cleaning windows the trad way, they are "so called w/cs "

its this attitude that troubles people
Title: Re: Ionics In Legal Danger?
Post by: stephen s on February 20, 2010, 10:12:10 am
dont be silly sweety.

me thinks your trying to twist things some what.

when refering to so called w/c  I was refering to people like yourself who don't like other w/c investing in their business and using quality suppliers like Ionics so you like to have a pop at them,  but thats fine as we can all have a pop at people as I know I do cos I'm doing it now.

also all those moaners who come on here time after time moaning about customers and how bad life is for them,  those so calledf w/c  as I like to put it