Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: biggles on February 19, 2010, 06:32:10 am
-
morning wcs anyone d i only if so can you give us some info. so i have a rough idea how much i will spend on resin . what is your tds before resin how much water do you use per month how much resin do you use per month thanks for any replies ;) biggles
-
I wouldn't advise anyone to be just DI.
If your main water is above 70-80ppm then you need to be looking at RO rather than just DI as you will spend a fortune in resin
-
I am DI only.
Tap water 055ppm.
I use roughly one bag every 4 weeks costing me..
£80 per 4 weeks, £20 per week or £4 per day...
Not much really when you have Pure Water on demand and large amounts in minutes!
Why wouldn't you advise it Ian? Just because of the cost?
-
I am DI only.
Tap water 055ppm.
I use roughly one bag every 4 weeks costing me..
£80 per 4 weeks, £20 per week or £4 per day...
Not much really when you have Pure Water on demand and large amounts in minutes!
Why wouldn't you advise it Ian? Just because of the cost?
Cor blimey im glad im not DI only, glad i paid out for a 4040, £1040 a year on resin >:(
thats probs why he doesnt recommend DI only.
-
but how much water are you producing per month for a bag of resin
-
It sometimes varies, not sure why.
20,000 - 25,000 litres
-
How many vans is that filling...
-
One
-
that is good value if you ask me
-
I thought so too pal.
-
if you put it through a merlin, which has a quick flow rate, that would save DI costs?
-
DI only ppm 50-65.
2-3 bags a year. Saves having to store it.
I double DI as it saves 66% if you want advice feel free to phone. Numbers on my website.
Stuart
-
Double Di is the way forward.
I run an RO but have a double di. When your first cannister hits 5ppm then stick another cannister after that (between the one that's hit 5 and your storage)
Doing this has save me a fortune on resin. I used to get through a 5L bag every 2 months, now I'm going between every 5-6 months.
I think if your di only or ro & di that double di is the way forward
-
Tap water tds 72.
I run 2 DI Tanks in tamden, I stir the resin in both tanks when the one with the newest resin reaches 5 tds this reduces the tds to 000, I kept on doing this until the tds stay on 5 tds, I then change the resin in the oldest di tank which reads the same as my tap water and rotates the 2 di tanks around.
I only need 2 bags of resin every year which I feel is cost effective.
With a RO system you do have a lot of waste water and if you are on a meter this can be very expensive.
-
Tap water tds 72.
I run 2 DI Tanks in tamden, I stir the resin in both tanks when the one with the newest resin reaches 5 tds this reduces the tds to 000, I kept on doing this until the tds stay on 5 tds, I then change the resin in the oldest di tank which reads the same as my tap water and rotates the 2 di tanks around.
I only need 2 bags of resin every year which I feel is cost effective.
With a RO system you do have a lot of waste water and if you are on a meter this can be very expensive.
Just out of interest, how much water do you get through in a week?
I only use 400L a week, ish. I Single DI if thats an expression we use on here.
-
some great advice on this subject, gonna defo do a 2 d i set up with no ro . tap water is only 60 tds and only need 1500 litres a week should not be that expensive. no more filters no more waste water i am on a metre , plus fill my tank up in 15 mins when i need it .thanks again ;)
-
2 di set up for me as well, i bought my set up with a 4040 second hand and the waste water was silly, i couldnt justify it all especially as im on a meter as well.
-
I have been on double DI for 3.5 years now, I think I was one of the first to post on it. Tap TDS around 55.
I will have to try this stirring though, I have been a bit lazy on this one, just binning the resin in the first cylinder when it read the same tds as tap water.
Don't do what I did last week and leave the water on all night, flooded the back yard with pure water, and it was still reading zero on the tds meter.
-
Tap water tds 72.
I run 2 DI Tanks in tamden, I stir the resin in both tanks when the one with the newest resin reaches 5 tds this reduces the tds to 000, I kept on doing this until the tds stay on 5 tds, I then change the resin in the oldest di tank which reads the same as my tap water and rotates the 2 di tanks around.
I only need 2 bags of resin every year which I feel is cost effective.
With a RO system you do have a lot of waste water and if you are on a meter this can be very expensive.
Just out of interest, how much water do you get through in a week?
I only use 400L a week, ish. I Single DI if thats an expression we use on here.
I have a 650 litre water tank in the van and I fill it up around 3 times a week.
-
Been twin DI for 6 years now.
Tap tds= 90ppm
Use 2 bags of resin per year. So, anual cost of £145 :)
500ltr van mount.
THID IS THE IMPORTANT BIT- FLOW-RATE Vs VOLUME OF RESIN.
I would advise no less than 11ltr vessels & purify ON-DEMAND. Do not fill through vessels into tank, instead, fill tank from mains & pump through vessels to pole.
-
I fill my 650 litre tank through twin di vessels but do it slowly over a period of about 5 hours and find that the resin lasts onger by doing this as well.
-
mines lasts around 8 months, but now will last over a year, as i now use the wet scrub method, saving loads of water now, if you use resin, run it slowly, and you will get almost double the life from your resin,
-
I think everyone is getting confused with the whole DI and Resin. I think some people that have replied to this post are on about the small DI's. Mine is 25lt, takes a 25kg bag.
-
so are two smaller di vessells better than two larger ones . if you have your di after the pump does it put extra pressure on your pump ???
-
I think everyone is getting confused with the whole DI and Resin. I think some people that have replied to this post are on about the small DI's. Mine is 25lt, takes a 25kg bag.
and that only last you 4 weeks, something not right there, should last you around 4 to 6 months, the bigger the vessel, the more your resin lasts, 55ppm is reasonably low
-
Why should it last so long?
-
Joe, what's the wet scrub method? Scrubbing the glass first with the fllow off?
-
out of a sack of 25 kilos of resin you should be producing 9090 of pure water.
500000 divide by your tds tap water 55 = 9090
If I was you I would check the flow rate of the water that is going though your di tank, it might be going though too fast.
I would also check that the tap water is going though the inlet connector and not the outward one.
-
tds round my way is shockinn 28-32ppm i mean how am i to cope LOL
-
TDS ONLY 22 - 55ppm !!!!! from the tap!!!!!!!
Im in the south east and mine is a bit higher than you lot,
189ppm from the tap!!!!
any chance i can hook up a hose from your house lol!!
-
I use double d.i only
my tap water is around 300 ppm
but i only use w.f.p for 1st floor and above and i only do 3 days a week at the mo
but 1 bag of 25 L dowex resin as lasted around 6 months and i still have some left!
-
I use double d.i only
my tap water is around 300 ppm
but i only use w.f.p for 1st floor and above and i only do 3 days a week at the mo
but 1 bag of 25 L dowex resin as lasted around 6 months and i still have some left!
hi what size is your d.i are you using? my ppm is just under 300 and was looking at doing ups only aswell
-
if you go double do both containers have to be the same size
-
I'm twin 11 ltr DI bottles.
"Used" one as water goes in to my tank.
Then the 0ppm one after tank, after pump to my leaky hose .
I bought one bag last year, and one last week. My "used" DI bottle was up to and equal my house tap water 022 ppm.
So I changed it.
Whilst on site the highest I've found my way was 112ppm - I nearly passed out from the shock of it !
I like this set up coz I can fill up quickly and at most sites (where there is availability of a tap) and it's cheap.
APART from the times like last week, where I was working hard as the van filled, only for one of my connections to blow before the Shut off tap and fill my van up to the doors cill level ! :-[ not happy .
It's a van not a boat !
-
if you go double do both containers have to be the same size
Can you explain why you think this to be true?
-
pure hydro , orange is getting 20000 litres of water so that is better than your calculations of 9090 and hes only using one di cannister ?
-
if you go double do both containers have to be the same size
Can you explain why you think this to be true?
It doesn't matter if they are different sizes.
-
Joe, what's the wet scrub method? Scrubbing the glass first with the fllow off?
yes, but only on maintainance cleans, not first cleans, just wet the glass lightly, then wet scrub frames and glass, then rinse of, i use less than half of what i use to use cleaning this method, before i was over doing it, you get the same results using the wet scrub method
-
pure hydro , orange is getting 20000 litres of water so that is better than your calculations of 9090 and hes only using one di cannister ?
Those resin calculators are a waste of time.
For instance what brand of resin was used? We all know purolite is a very poor resin while dowex or tulsion will outlast it by far, even more so when utilising 2 DI's.
-
i cant see how 2 resin vessel can save me on resin, does anyone have real proof of this, the real idea of 2 di resin vessels, came about years ago, it was for folk with high tds readings, who mainly do commercial work, and this method was to fill up on site, saving them running back to refill, if they had a tds of say 400 or more, one vessel was not enough to bring that hardness down, so the 2 vessels where born, i think over the years the whole thing has been misinterpreted, 2 vessel will still give the same results as one vessel, i think it will still come to the same calculations when the resin is spent, prove me wrong, becouse i just dont believe it
-
my tap water tds is 26 in my house....my custies average around 25...with a tds that low i recommend DI only......however i would not suggest you DI only if your tap water tds is above 45...i need to replace my resin.....bought TWO years ago.....i also use the double DI method....ie swap round when the reading goes up.
-
i cant see how 2 resin vessel can save me on resin, does anyone have real proof of this, the real idea of 2 di resin vessels, came about years ago, it was for folk with high tds readings, who mainly do commercial work, and this method was to fill up on site, saving them running back to refill, if they had a tds of say 400 or more, one vessel was not enough to bring that hardness down, so the 2 vessels where born, i think over the years the whole thing has been misinterpreted, 2 vessel will still give the same results as one vessel, i think it will still come to the same calculations when the resin is spent, prove me wrong, becouse i just dont believe it
Jouk mate it does work, think about it.
My tap TDS is 55, if I'm using a single vessel I have to bin the resin when it gets to 6ppm.
If I leave the resin in that vessel and connect to another, then the water going into the new one is 6ppm, not 55 ppm as it would be from the tap.
I am continuing to save on resin until the TDS from the first vessel is 55ppm same as the tap.
If you don't check the TDS of that first vessel it will continue to rise, I have neglected this a couple of times and ended up with water of 90 TDS going into the second vessel when it would only have been 55 from the tap.
But it does work Jouk, believe me, you can save loads if your DI only..
-
yes dai, i am di only, the way i see it is if you use 2 vessel, yes it will bring the tds down much quicker, but the end result wil be the same, when my resin hits 01 i just shake the vessel well and you get an extra week or so,
-
yes dai, i am di only, the way i see it is if you use 2 vessel, yes it will bring the tds down much quicker, but the end result wil be the same, when my resin hits 01 i just shake the vessel well and you get an extra week or so,
The point is Jouk, the resin in the single vessel that produced 006 water would have been in the bin doing nothing, it's now taking my tap water from 55ppm down to 006, so my new vessel has only 006 to cope with instead of 55 from the tap, it's nothing to do with speed, I'm saving money until the old resin is producing water at 55ppm.
-
JOUK
I'm gobsmacked you can't understand the twin DI set up!
Your idea of how it came about is wrong though. It's just common sense.
Tulsion & dowex resin will remain at very low tds levels for longer than other brands hence why they are even more economical when used this way. I was sold a single DI system 6 years ago, soon got fed up of throwing good resin away & added a second very soon after.
-
i have never used twin di vessels, i have always thought it as a false economy, i have a tds at the moment of 40ppm usualy around 30ppm a bag last me around 6 months or longer, and cheap as chips, it works out pennys for me, the key is to run the di very slowly, i mean slow, if you use it at full tap water pressure, of course it will drain the resin fast, only fill the vessel to the shoulder, not filled to the top, which many have done, the bigger the vessel the longer your resin will last, not 2 of them linked,
-
i have never used twin di vessels, i have always thought it as a false economy, i have a tds at the moment of 40ppm usualy around 30ppm a bag last me around 6 months or longer, and cheap as chips, it works out pennys for me, the key is to run the di very slowly, i mean slow, if you use it at full tap water pressure, of course it will drain the resin fast, only fill the vessel to the shoulder, not filled to the top, which many have done, the bigger the vessel the longer your resin will last, not 2 of them linked,
No mate.
A bigger vessel will last longer ONLY because there is more resin in it.
Resin will last longer with 2 vessels because one is pre-filtering the other, like using an RO, though not as effective.
If you used your spent resin to pre-filter a new vessel you'd see how it works instead of throwing it away. ;)
-
i would love to see an accurate reading over a 6 month period, one with single di vessel, the other twin, i still think it will be the same outcome thats if the record is accurate, sorry i am not being ignorant, no one has shown a real record as proof of this, :P
-
jouk45, you are not listening to people who know,
i have a 2 di system and it works fine with me,
my tds out of tap is 96 so i can wait until my second di is reading 001 and then change round the vessels and add new resin to the one with the max tds ,dont ask for facts ,listen to people who know.
-
hi joe i just read your post.....i use the twin DI setup as follows:
1st one has a tds reading of 000.....i use that at my customers until the reading goes up to around 002 ( i have used it at 004 before) the new DI has new resin in......i filter the 002-4 water through the 000 and the 000 last a lot longer than filtering through 26 or whatever your tap water is......i know that the readings in the 1st one will creep up steadily but it will not go higher than the tap tds....so when DI number 2 starts to creep up thats when i swap them round (new resin of course)
hey, i should have got a job teaching......in a mad house.....i aint got a clue wot i just said ;D
-
so your saying if i run 2 di vessels, my resin will last longer than 6 months using my single di vessel that i use now, :o
-
scrimmy whats your tds
-
so your saying if i run 2 di vessels, my resin will last longer than 6 months using my single di vessel that i use now, :o
Yes Jouk of course it will. when your tds starts going up and you have shaken the vessel a few times, the time will come to bin that resin.
If instead of binning it, you put it in front of another vessel it's still working for you until the TDS coming out of it is the same as your tap water.
You have to keep a check on the TDs coming from that first vessel because it's continually rising, AND IF LEFT, WILL CONTINUE RISING WAY PAST YOUR TAP TDS AND TO THE POINT WERE IT'S CONTAMINATING YOUR NEW VESSEL.
-
so your saying if i run 2 di vessels, my resin will last longer than 6 months using my single di vessel that i use now, :o
i think i see wot the problem is.......you are thinking that its 2 vessels filled at the same time with new resin.
in that case they will last exactly the same time as 1 big vessel (give or take for volume of course)
my method is based on just using one vessel out on the jobs to begin with (my tds is 26 joe) then when the tds of THAT vessel goes up to around 2-4 then i attach another 4.6 litre vessel to the trolley and filter the customers tap water through vessel number 1 first THEN through vessel number 2.......the tds will continue to rise but it will take a good few weeks for it to rise to 26 tds.
-
Hi Jouk
You want some facts to prove the 2 di tank system works.
The only facts I have are as follows.
Before I started using the 2 di tank setup, I would go though a bag of resin (Dolwex or Tulsion) evry 3 to 5 months.
I last purchased a bag of resin in the 1st week of October 2009 and I still have 1/2 of it left and my water is still showing 000.
Now the only things that have changed in this time is that my workload has gone up by at least 40%.
So at the moment I am cleaning 40% more work with resin thats is lasting over double the amount of time that it use to do.
-
My calculations are not from using the Resin Usage Calculator but from my own readings.
It just shows that the Resin Calculator doesn't work. IE: 20,000 ltrs divided by 55ppm Tap water = 9090 ltrs of Pure, I am producing more than double that.
Each and everyday I take note of how much water has been used, how much is left and then how much I get from my 25kg of Tulison Resin.
Over a 4 week period I use anywhere in between 20,000 and 25,000 litres of Pure Water using only one 25ltr DI Vessel. Then my reading starts rising, I only ever go to around 010ppm before changing the resin.
I am not sure how much pressure or flow rate goes into my DI Vessel but I do use the same number of turns when opening the tap, IE: Three full turns on.
-
Try turning the tap water flow rate down, instead of 3 full turns try 2 then 1
-
ahh i see what you mean now dai & scrimmy ;D that makes a lot of sence now, i just could not understand why everyone was banging on about twin vessels, you explained that perfectly dai, so instead of throwing it away at 06 or whatever, put it to the back of the new di vessel until the resin rises to my water tds, completley spending up all the resin, and the cycle restarts again when the new vesels tds rises, put that to the back and so on, i am going to try this out, thanks guys, sorry for being so thick ;D ;D
-
yep thats what i do 2 vessals
-
Just like to thank the posters for excellent advice that will save me a lot of money ;D