Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul_Ashworth on February 07, 2010, 08:28:31 pm
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I have just been on the CCDO website and thought everybody would be intrested in this post which i have copied & pasted.
The principal aim of the C.L.E.A.N association is to raise awareness of the need for regular carpet and upholstery cleaning with the consumer.
The focus of the C.L.E.A.N association is and always will be the customer. We aim to increase the awareness on a national level via this website and our marketing plans for the future.
We will stress the need to employ a fully trained, professional cleaner and what benefits to the public and their premises regular cleaning brings. We will continue to strive and educate the customer that price is a clear indicator of the standard of work they can expect.
A huge proportion of the U.K. domestic market do not even consider cleaning their carpets and furnishings, and only a small proportion of the ones that do - have ever heard of organisations that currently represent our industry.
It is our main priority to change this.
Contrary to opinion, it will not cost vast amounts of money to start achieving these aims. We live in a digital age where information can be distributed cheaply across a massive audience. Gone are the days when fortunes had to be spent on traditional forms of advertising to get your message to the masses.
The Directors of C.L.E.A.N have many years of cleaning experience between them, together with technical expertise, marketing, sales, and internet skills; we feel that we have the ideal combination of abilities to drive the new association forward.
We feel the time is right for change.
We are not trying to replicate other current trade organisations. This is new territory and change will not happen overnight. However, if we can raise the awareness of just 1% of the public, it would make a huge difference to all cleaners and suppliers alike as we will be cleaning more carpets and ordering more products.
We invite applications for membership from interested parties. You will be expected to take and pass an entry training course, pay a membership fee and show proof of insurance, including treatment risk. Ongoing training courses will be provided, focusing on specific disciplines with the emphasis on practical teaching and real-world experience. A range of promotional items will be available to members to push awareness with your clients.
We aim to prove that this will not be just another badge for your collection. We will be actively sourcing commercial contracts on a national level, with our strength being that we can call on a network of trained, experienced, vetted, certified and trusted professionals. We have already secured one contract and we are certain more will follow.
It will not be simply a case of adding your name to a directory on a website and then waiting for the phone to ring. There is a common complaint amongst carpet cleaners that they don’t get any work from the organisations that they are members of - we aim to change this. Although we cannot make promises, we will be working hard to ensure that members benefit from their membership financially.
For an exciting opportunity to join CLEAN and become a founder member, more information can be found here: http://www.cleanassociation.org.uk/join.html
For anyone interested in this association, or if you simply wish to ask any questions then please send your enquiries here: info@cleanassociation.org.uk
Please note that any questions you have should be made via email or by phone. All of the appropriate contact details are on the C.L.E.A.N website http://www.cleanassociation.org.uk
I thank you for your interest in this announcement.
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You forgot to add its £200 for membership.
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why no dates of comming courses??
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well ive just been on there and it looks like dates will be coming soon? so we'll have to wait and see i suppose?
blimey darren, you didnt expect it for free did you? get real :D
Mark
p.s. hope this is good for the industry, it needs a bit of shake up. site looks pretty cool!
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I think most people would like to no what its gonna cost them to join whats the problem with that.
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This is what you need if you want to be a pro Item number: 330402700373 :o ;D ;D
I PREDICT A RIOT LOL
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i like the way the guy says that its a PRO machine and not like any of the hire machines - ER, it is a hire machine as its a Rug Doctor ;D ;D
Like he says, its a bargain alright but for all the wrong reasons :P
Mark
p.s. its on ebay by the way if no-one realised
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Tiny things please tiny minds but that has made my day ;D ;D ;D
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Just out of interest could some one tell me why not one word about CLEAN has ever been mentioned on Cleantalk?
cleantalk is full of professional carpet cleaner who would jump at the chance to help push forward a organisation that is trying to raise the profile of carpet cleaning, not not one word has been mentioned of it or did I miss it
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don't worry I've sorted it , just put up a post about it :)
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Can't get on Cleantalk, lost my pass word, can anyone tell me what my user name is?
Shaun
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Its Shaun Ashmore, i forget my name too sometimes Shaun,
must be that glass of red wine you had :)
Andrew
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looks like Shaun Ashmore.....................
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Fit everest ;D
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All the best with the new venture.
I like the idea and it may take several years for it to have any real effect.
No doubt give it 6 months and the outside snipers will be around with exactly the same comments I had to suffer when a new organisation was set up for window cleaners.
I'm going to give this some serious thoughts.
One thing I would add is that to get maximum interest you're going to have to go on a nationwide roadshow as Stoke isn't to easy to get to for those in Scotland, North East, North West, South East and South West.
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We could'nt agree more Neil and thats all in hand for those interested.
Pete
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They don't want me :'( well it says that it doesn't recognise my email address.
Shaun
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In an old post both your e mail addresses are present.............send an e mail to J B and he'll sort it out
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They don't want me :'( well it says that it doesn't recognise my email address.
Shaun
Same here re; email address, Your name is Sheffield Shaun on Cleantalk
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So yet another training course!!
Or can c.c just take the exam? after all many on
here have passed exams been on numerous other courses etc.
Is the course compulsary? How much more money do You want ? Ongoing training!!! more money, for who?
Alot of unanswered questions in my book.
Geoff
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Geoff, give it a go, whats the worsed that could happen is that they are as bad as the NCCA. I might wake the old fa.ts up that they need to change rather than just talk about it at their expenses paid meetings all the time.
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So have they purchased a Unit or a warehouse near the boat docks then?
Or are they just using that a a registered address?
Is that where the training courses will be heald?
Best of luck with it. I can see that its a chance that they could certainly earn from it. If it takes off.
Dave
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So yet another training course!!
Or can c.c just take the exam? after all many on
here have passed exams been on numerous other courses etc.
Is the course compulsary? How much more money do You want ? Ongoing training!!! more money, for who?
Alot of unanswered questions in my book.
Geoff
Why don't you go onto the website? A lot of your questions are answered on there ::)
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how about putting a link up for it then colin,
because try searching on google, and i get ncca, iicrc, and loads of other clean associations and c/c but not mention of CLEAN . ::)
geoff
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Heres the link to the website,
http://www.cleanassociation.org.uk/
Browse through. But still not enough answers and question yet.
Although I am interested its another way of making money for the owners, directors. Good luck to them at the end of the day its just another business trying to make a living. As I said best of luck with it.
As far as exams go if you have a couple then I see no real need to take more... but they have to get revenue in some how dont they?
Same as tshirts, brand awarness. Another revenue.
Then theres a joining fee. Its the same all over with these organisation and not just in the cleaning world.
Its the same for me with the CPSA Clay Pigeon Shooting Association they all want money. They also say they will fight your corner etc.
But I dont know how the CLEAN will be any better than any other organisation. Only difference so far is they get contracts.
I can get contracts without paying a fee.
Alot of clients have never heard of the assosiations like NCCA or IIRC or BICsc or whatever organisation.
Also £200 joining fee. So a good earner if you get 20 people joining that £4000 get 40 err I am sure you get the picture. So divide that to an equal split to the directors and President. Could be easy money and for that amount I would work my backside off as well. Early retirement.
Time will tell if they will be any different to any other trade assosiation
As for this,
We will stress the need to employ a fully trained, professional cleaner and what benefits to the public and their premises regular cleaning brings. We will continue to strive and educate the customer that price is a clear indicator of the standard of work they can expect.
Maybe its just me, what are you saying here...CC who charges lower cannot give such a quality finish? If so I am not sure I agree.
Also if its to try and stop the flyby nights who have had no training... no one can stop that. It happens in every trade.
Dave
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OK.....so you pay £200 to join CLEAN What do you get in return? Do you have to pay a annual subscription to remain in CLEAN if yes how much is it? Do you have to take exams, training courses and so on. Do you have to pay more for these exams/training courses?
To be able to get people to join CLEAN wouldnt it be a common sense / good idea to let us all know on forums like this and truckmounters aswell as the CLEAN website EXACTLY what the initial costs are & the ongoing costs.
Richie.
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OK.....so you pay £200 to join CLEAN What do you get in return? Do you have to pay a annual subscription to remain in CLEAN if yes how much is it? Do you have to take exams, training courses and so on. Do you have to pay more for these exams/training courses?
To be able to get people to join CLEAN wouldnt it be a common sense / good idea to let us all know on forums like this and truckmounters aswell as the CLEAN website EXACTLY what the initial costs are & the ongoing costs.
Richie.
According to the website and the way I read it,
Cost of joining is £200 pa
You must take an entrance exam £35.00 - fail the exam you can't join - Can you retake the exam? I would assume so as its more money for them.
So even though people might have IIRC OR NCCA exams pass. You need a CLEAN exam just to make sure you are a pro. It obviously distinguishes you from the rest to show you are the best.
What you get in return for £235.00 is a photo card to prove you are a Professional. I have not seen their photocard but it might have the word "Professional" on it somewhere or "Excellence"
What more do you need. A pen would be nice as well.
Dave
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I,ve got some passport photos, somwhere, think ill get one done :)
to be honest what i would really like to know, is what distinguishes clean from any other body? what makes them supposedly the organition that makes you become a professional ?
Who will be doing the training? and what qualifications do they have?
Are they as good as or better than ncca or iicrc intructors?
and finaly( although i,m sure i could think of lots more questions) Why if the case may be , do you have to have more training and pass more exams if people already have these in their pocket?
Somebody, please enlighten me, and give me an honest answer, because i certainly cant seem to find them any where.
geoff
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Geoff, what you have said is something that i also look forward to finding out. Who will be instructing and be the instructor? What qualifications does this person have that gives that person the right to stand in front of others and say.....IM YOUR INSTRUCTOR? Whould be nice to see the qualifications of the said person.
I know it may seem like many are been abit negative regarding CLEAN but lets be honest.....we all have a right to get the answers to our questions.
Dave,
£200 pa. Bloody hell. can someone from CLEAN PLEASE confirm actual annual costs please.
Richie.
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I'm going to be a member which I've already stated but I'm not a director etc but to answer your question about instructors, how do instructors get their passes and jobs in the first place?
I don't know the answer myself.
Shaun
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Shaun
Thought you would be on the so call board of directors ::)
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I'm going to be a member which I've already stated but I'm not a director etc but to answer your question about instructors, how do instructors get their passes and jobs in the first place?
I don't know the answer myself.
Shaun
Hi Shaun,
I thought to get there instructor status they had do pass the same exams we do but also do another test.
(I dont know what the other test is) then if they pass that they then get an "Im an instructor badge" a little bit like a car driving instructor.
To become the Driving instructor you have to have had 3.5 years driving experience and have a clean licence oh and someone needs to sponsor them to be able to start teaching.
So maybe they have to have cleaned say 300 hundred carpets and 100 stains removals. Successfully and possible only 1 shrinkage allowed.
Possibly they have to own there own kit and prove its theirs. How they do that without a reciept I have know idea.
Oh and at least 5 years driving behind the wand and a sponsor.
Dave
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carpet cleaning is an unregulated industry anyone can stand up and offer training, its not as if we are doctors or dentist.
I was thinking of offering upholstery cleaning training courses. I've just got a big unit I was going to fill it full of suites (I'll buy them cheap out of the papers) and just offer a practical hands-on training course in suite cleaning. It will be like nothing offered at the moment, the chance to clean 15-20 different suites/fabrics...... I'll even give them a certificate at the end :D :D
but like CLEAN I'll offer it out, if anyone wants to come they can, if anyone wants to moan about how am I qualified to run such a course they can get stuffed, no one is forced to come.
I'f you are not convinced that the instructors CLEAN will use are up to the job..... then don't attend or join..... easy really
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Mike,
No need to buy from paper.
let me know what you want , my mother is a managress for age concern and gets offered loads, but unfortunalty has to refuse so many because of fire restrictions.
just a thought!!!
Geoff
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For those of you who are worried about where "OUR" money is being spent on the membership. You might be interested to know that the set up fee's alone have proved expensive:
It costs £1200 to get a set of ltd Co accounts done for starters. Then Insurance (EL PL and Professional Imdemnity) £800. All the van stickers etc.
Then of course there will be other costs, I'm sure they don't need to be spelt out as I believe one or two of us should know about running costs!
But rest assured, the accounts "Will" be available to be viewed by "All" members, so if they're planning on spending a fortune on Chocolate covered Hob Nobs, I'll be asking for my money back ;D
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I understand that it is a 'non profit orgainisation' so there's your answer really? doesnt seem like they are in it for themselves.
trying to change the publics perception is a tough task - but wouldnt it be great if they did?
the membership fee i think is £200 and not £235 as there is no vat to pay on such a new organisation as this.
good luck to them i say
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Mark, and others who are obviously batting for the CLEAN asc.
its ok making these statments that its a non profit making organisation, but that is not answering some of the questions I have posed.
The main one in my mind been. To be a member does a c/c have to go on a course and sit exams? even though he or she may well have sat numerous other. Simple enough question, I would have thought , but as yet still no answer.
All I am doing is asking , Not knocking CLEAN , would just like to be furnished with answers, then i will decide what I wish to do.
geoff
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Geoff.
I think it's only right that all new members should cough up the membership fee regardless of how many courses/exams they have sat previously. If I signed up for CLEAN as a relative newcomer to the industry only to find that 2000 cc'ers have jumped on board from other organisations...and paid feck all for the privilege, I would be livid.
Will I be joining? Probably. From what I have read so far this organisation is exactly what this industry needs. They seem to be addressing the biggest stumbling block for decent carpet cleaners IMO which is public awareness. They also appear to have leads regarding large contracts which also grabs my attention. At the start of the year, I helped out on a large one day job organised by one of the directors of CLEAN. This paid enough to cover two memberships if I did choose to sign up.With regular jobs such as this, and these jobs potentially being exclusive to CLEAN members, I reckon signing up could be a punt worth taking.
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I think it may well turn out to be a good thing for a number of cc's and maybe in the long term for all cc's if it takes of BUT I do think logistics will play a BIG part of who does and who doesnot profit from the new association it does have some very clued up guys working hard to make it work good luck to all.
Regards Tony
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carpet cleaning is an unregulated industry anyone can stand up and offer training, its not as if we are doctors or dentist.
I was thinking of offering upholstery cleaning training courses. I've just got a big unit I was going to fill it full of suites (I'll buy them cheap out of the papers) and just offer a practical hands-on training course in suite cleaning. It will be like nothing offered at the moment, the chance to clean 15-20 different suites/fabrics...... I'll even give them a certificate at the end :D :D
but like CLEAN I'll offer it out, if anyone wants to come they can, if anyone wants to moan about how am I qualified to run such a course they can get stuffed, no one is forced to come.
I'f you are not convinced that the instructors CLEAN will use are up to the job..... then don't attend or join..... easy really
How much mike? still not confident unless its an acrylic mix
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I understand that it is a 'non profit orgainisation' so there's your answer really? doesnt seem like they are in it for themselves.
I think that some people think that because they are saying its a non profit making organisation this means they will not be earning money from it. Just because it 'non profit making' does not mean they will not be earning from it.
I do hope that they can raise awareness to the consumer, If CLEAN does manage this then it will not just benefit people who have signed upto CLEAN but CCs outside of the organisation would also feel the benefits.
Richie.
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Do you still have to attend 45 minute talk before taking exam
Is exam under strict exam conditions, as NCCA send their one through post
Ian - I dont think NCCA do send the exam thro the post to you.
You do the 2 day course - a Fri and Sat (so doe not intrude in to the working week to much) and you sit the exam at the end of the 2 day. Its all based on what the course has covered.
I hear and dont know if its true, but if you fail they do allow you to do a retest thro the post - whether its a full paper or just a part paper on what you failed on I dont know.
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I think the NCCA is about £2oo +vat.
Clean will be £35 for the exam, then £200.
If you go to the CCDO location (Stoke) on the Saturday you get the exam free
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Seems a lot of questions are being asked when the CLEAN website answers most of them.
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Just looks like another JOLLY up for you boys in the south if you ask me.......seeing there passing about work on the south .........NOthing near the NORTH.......JUST LIKE THE NCCA....
I was told when i was a lad that the NCCA wasnt worth it....but then what do i know no Only been at this 10 years...
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Just looks like another JOLLY up for you boys in the south if you ask me.......seeing there passing about work on the south .........NOthing near the NORTH.......JUST LIKE THE NCCA....
I was told when i was a lad that the NCCA wasnt worth it....but then what do i know no Only been at this 10 years...
So join and become the ambassador for the North! Simple really, ask the organisers if you could work something out.... They're very helpful you know?
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stoke on trent southerners eh! i'll be there.
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In my book stoke on trent is southern Derick ;) ;D
whilst your on here Derick perhaps you may be able to answer one of my quetions i keep asking, some questions have been answered ,and some skirted around but,
Does somebody who has taken numerous courses and already passed exams and has a number of years experience still have to go on a course and take an exam?
Thats is all i wish to know, well for now any way :)
i understand the membership has to be paid ect.etc. i understand their are costs involved , but I have yet not seen an answer to this question, it,s simple enough isnt it ?
Geoff
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don't see why not geoff, its there organisation so to be a member you should fit there criteria, i'll be at the ccdo if they'll sell me a ticket or 2 so i guess i'll take the exam while i'm there. thats if i'm allowed without actually joining till ive made my mind up. ;)
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In my book stoke on trent is southern Derick ;) ;D
whilst your on here Derick perhaps you may be able to answer one of my quetions i keep asking, some questions have been answered ,and some skirted around but,
Does somebody who has taken numerous courses and already passed exams and has a number of years experience still have to go on a course and take an exam?
Thats is all i wish to know, well for now any way :)
i understand the membership has to be paid ect.etc. i understand their are costs involved , but I have yet not seen an answer to this question, it,s simple enough isnt it ?
Geoff
Geoff dont think you will get a straight answer to that question on here unless answered by one of the directors of clean seems a sensible question. I guess if people can prove they have attended acredited courses within a certain time frame. Within any oraganisation there needs to be a certain level of clarification of skill level and to be honest i cant see to problem with attending a course if cheap enough and sitting a simple exam. where i would have a problem iis if it involved continually dong training days within an organisation. I always paln to do some sort of course each year in something eg last year i did the LTT 4 day course i do believe in on going training but this is something i like to control myself.
Direct your question to clean i would you will have your answer i am sure.
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Ian - I dont think NCCA do send the exam thro the post to you.
You're right they don't, because I tried that avenue and they weren't having it.....their loss basically.
As for the rest of the comments coming through, why are same few banging on about what's not right for them. Fine you don't like the idea then don't join. How about some positive posts on what they are/might be doing for the industry.
As already mentioned carpet cleaning is an unregulated industry, and we're all guilty of moaning and whinging at the £8 a room outfits that are basically giving the carpet cleaning industry a bad name. These guys want to change the public perseption which will help us real pros. So give them some backing eh?
I'm not going into the details but already one job has come my way that will pay for membership, exam fees, hotel accom and one almighty pee up with change left over. Not a bad start is it?
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Ian - I dont think NCCA do send the exam thro the post to you.
You're right they don't, because I tried that avenue and they weren't having it.....their loss basically.
As for the rest of the comments coming through, why are same few banging on about what's not right for them. Fine you don't like the idea then don't join. How about some positive posts on what they are/might be doing for the industry.
As already mentioned carpet cleaning is an unregulated industry, and we're all guilty of moaning and whinging at the £8 a room outfits that are basically giving the carpet cleaning industry a bad name. These guys want to change the public perseption which will help us real pros. So give them some backing eh?
I'm not going into the details but already one job has come my way that will pay for membership, exam fees, hotel accom and one almighty pee up with change left over. Not a bad start is it?
So already you have some work from them, well done.
Have you already taken the course and sat the exam then?
I f so how you manged to do that already?
and in you assuption of people banging on about what is not right for them, was you reffering to me as one of them? because all I am doing is asking, like i have already stated "not knocking them"
geoff
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Geoff, you used to be a member of the CCDO forum. Do you not have access to it now, cause all the info and lead up to whats happening now is on there, including the link to the CLEAN website.
Add it all together and you see a clearer picture instead of others speculating and maybe getting it wrong.
But yes, no matter what quals you have or how long you been carpet cleaning you have to take the exam at £35 - but its free if you go to Stoke (in the north Midlands) on the Sat before the CCDO day on the Sunday.
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Have you already taken the course and sat the exam then?
Not yet but this offer of work was open to everyone. I'll take it along with others thanks to the guys at CLEAN.
and in you assuption of people banging on about what is not right for them, was you reffering to me as one of them?
I'll be honest and say yes.
Having been there and done the setting up of an organisation for window cleaners i know how we felt about what we wanted to create, what people said they wanted us to correct and all the hassle and sniping we had to endure. Like I've said ask questions but let's stop loading them in order to create a scenerio of 'they are benefiting' for themselves, sort of stuff.
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SO they want to to pay to take an EXAM....and they dont train you before hand???? can I get my daughters driving test thats way ??? :o :o
Isnt the point of an EXAM to be taken after a traing course has been undertaken???
it looks like its not getting off to the best start....Lots of questions......and not enough info in the web site!!!!!!!!!!!! ::) ::)
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Carpet cleaners must be a fickle lot.
One wants to join NCCA, willing to take the exam but not the training.
Another says taking an exam without training is not the right way to go.
To the latter - why not ask the questions on CCDO - I think you are a poster on there, arent you?
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NO joe am not but my brother is!!! hes looking into it as am part timer...and he runs the company
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Serving the nation - accross the UKINDUSTRY SPECIALISTS
Professional NetworkCLEAN © 2009 Design by CleanPro AboutJoinContact TrainingAssociates HomeCLEAN ASSOCIATION ENTRANCE EXAM
It is planned to have an hour introduction, followed by a 45 minute exam consisting of 30 questions. The introduction will cover all the topics in the exam.
The test is designed for established cleaner’s, with experience of real life carpet cleaning. It will be of a practical nature and based on how a cleaner would approach a carpet and upholstery cleaning job in a professional manner.
Further courses covering a much more indepth knowledge of the process of cleaning will equip members with the range of skills needed to be an expert cleaner. Attendance on courses will be reflected in the individuals membership grade and inform the public of his or hers range of expertise.
Entry
Established cleaners entry exam following one hour seminar
Further Courses (Dates Coming Soon!)
Stain removal
Advanced Stain Removal.
Rug Cleaning. Identification
Low moisture carpet cleaning. Bonnet, Tex. Dry Fusion, Charley Pads etc
Dry carpet cleaning
Upholstery Cleaning
Truckmount servicing and operation inc RX20 and other tools.
Portable servicing and operation.
Other courses planned will include;
Leather cleaning
Hard floor cleaning and restoration.
Protectors Types, Application, Selling
All courses will have a strong practical emphasis and cover real cleaning situations.Cleaning Learning Excellence Association Network (CLEAN). Registered Address: Unit 2, Old Wheldon Rd, Stoke on Trent, Staffs, ST4 4HW
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no odour control course?
tut.
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Derek ;D ;D
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As a precursor, I believe C.L.E.A.N. is a pretty good initiative.
From what I can see, the association is looking for established cleaners with real life experience in carpet & upholstery cleaning.
Those sort of cleaners will virtually all have undergone relevant training in their time and therefore I can't understand some above bitching about spending £35 to prove they know what's what. After all you can earn more than twice as much as that before breakfast on any given day.
What would concern me more was the grading levels which are subject to attendance of additional courses. Regretfully, having been around the block more times than many, I deal with what would be thrown up on these additional courses on a day to day basis.
If under a CLEAN multi operational job I was working one end of a building & another member was cleaning the other side of the building without any knowledge of Advanced Stain Removal - would I want my business' name associated with the total job.
Although there are obviously basic fundamentals for cleaning, there are also many variable approaches to cleaning different materials & surfaces.
To take rugs as an example: Some believe, where suitable, total immersion is the very best way. In other words sling them in a wash pit, brush, and then bung them in a cetrifuge. I think some behind CLEAN see it this way. Others regard total immersion only applicable for urine contamination or disaster restoration & to do otherwise does the rug no favour. Take your pick as to who is right or wrong but the course will be heavily influenced by who is holding the course.
At the end of the day, no short course or exam is going to make a 'professional' carpet cleaner noticably better. Experience & experimentation is
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With a couple of apparently BIG jobs already won a major part of the organisation has proven itself even before the official launch.
Any of you watching the programme about emmigration to Australia / New Zealand couldn't fail to have noticed that NO MATTER HOW EXPERIENCED OR APPARENTLY KNOWLEDEABLE people are, they have to prove their abilities beyond all reasonable doubt and even re train before being taken on.
It's the way it should be.....
Would any of you take someone on to service a lucrative contract without thoroughly checking their knowledge and skill ?
I've gone through this process a couple of times and although I achieved " high marks " there was still additional training to do before being let loose, so to speak, on the paying public .............AND there was the annual review to ensure standards were being maintained.
If a uniform standard is to be achieved there has to be a set of criteria.
If you're happy with your business there is no need to join anything, but there are always benefits to be had from a " group "of potential buyers, eg, insurance, phones, van discounts, etc.
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To quote Joe Hutton, the benefits of NCCA are that:
"you not only have to produce evidence of public liability insurance but also treatment risk"
Shame CLEAN don't keep such high standards.
'Dave' do you know how daft that sounds mate. It sounds like you are basing what you have just said, on no facts whatsoever ::) - or are you privvy to information that we are not? No, didnt think so.
Im no idiot but Im sure CLEAN would require this as an absolute minimum requirement.
Mark
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Sorry but please can I ask a few questions about CLEAN
A) Is it an association or a franchise
B) Will you be a member who quotes for that job and invoices the customer or a sub contractor who invoices a day rate to CLEAN.
C) Will CLEAN check with it members/sub contractors if the jobs they are quoting for belong to them and if so does the member/sub contractor do the work at a reduced rate. (e.g. possible problem if not an association, Mr B in Birmingham cleans twice a year some rooms at a hotel that belongs to a well know chain, and makes a good profit, along comes CLEAN that tenders for all the hotels in that chain and gets it, Lucky Mr B is a member of CLEAN, Mr B works just as hard!! But is it at a reduced rate??)
Do I have to wait until April and buy a ticket, to find this out.
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We will continue to strive and educate the customer that price is a clear indicator of the standard of work they can expect.
Far from it in my experience of employing other trades round the house i.e. decorators, plumbers etc
John
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have some posts gone missing??
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Yes, and rightly so in my opinion.
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This is what C.L.E.A.N require.
Comunications Director Ricky Montana
Real name Ricky Thompson
Website made by another Director ( Doug Holloway)
http://carpetcleanersuttoxeter.co.uk/
Note he say's he is a member of the NCCA. Actually he is not a member.
On the CCDO forum he say's he is a LTD company.
Again he is not LTD.
( taken from CCDO websie)
Re: Midlands
by Ricky Thompson on Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:05 am
ABILITY
cleaning & restoration Ltd Ricky Thompson
Est 1975
07932 706390 07932 706390
info@ability1975.co.uk
Areas covered regularly : the whole of Staffordshire ,Cheshire, Derbyshire
machinery : TM , 2 full porty set ups , rotarys , Leather restoration kit , pressure washing kit,
services offered but not limited to : Carpet cleaning , area rug work , upholstery (modern & antique) , Leather restoration ,tile and grout work, , property clearance , sanitising.
soon to be added for the spring of 2010 Timber flooring (parquet & mosaic etc)http://www.ability1975.co.ukRicky Thompson
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:25 pm
Location: Uttoxetter
Town/City:: Uttoxeter
Postcode: ST14 7NR
Private messageWebsiteYIM.
Andy Foster
Posts: 132
Join date: 2009-08-15
Location: Stafford
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Point being?
Shaun
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Not sure what you are trying to do with this information Dave- it's all on CCDO forum for everyone to see, nothing to hide as far as i can see - Ricky posts on here also
lots of poison being posted on here at moment re clean - if people don't like clean just don't join simplez really
People turn up cause trouble & then are not heard from again - we've had a few regarding clean - strange that
i've put my name down that i my be interested in clean - i haven't made my mind up yet i just don't see the need to cause trouble - maybe i just like an easy life
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Is it me or have some people got far too much time on their hands
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The point being Shaun is, and I am generalising here what is true.
Its like people on the forums who try to hide who they are - its been discussed many times hasnt it, we would much rather know who we are dealing with.
In whatever walk of life, I would much rather deal with someone who is truthful. Why? Because if they not truthful in all things how am I going to know when I can trust them.
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Jon,
I don't think it's quite as simple as, 'People turn up cause trouble & then are not heard from again - we've had a few regarding clean - strange that' As it has turned out CLEAN has turned out to be quite a controversial subject, not least because of the way it has been cobbled together in smoke filled rooms by people who think they know better than the rest of us what the carpet cleaning industry needs in order to move forward to a brighter tomorrow. There has been no 'conversation with the carpet cleaning fraternity' just an association (that is in all but name a franchise operation) that will be served up to us in April on a take it or leave it basis. It will be deeply divisive and in my view a step in the wrong direction, not, because the people who have put it together are corrupt or idiots, but because they have not a grain of respect for the people they hope will populate their new Association. If they had, they would have consulted the industry first and built what WE wanted not what they want to foist on us having first shrouded the whole thing in a thick veil of secrecy. Why is something that is supposed to represent the is industry shrouded in secrecy? Ask yourself that. The only information that has come out of clean is what has been forced from them. It's almost as if they don't want you to know what your signing up to until you've signed up. So why can't they just come CLEAN about CLEAN? And why will they only come clean about it if you go to the CCDO (£35 per ticket)
Jon, I think you are confusing the word trouble with the word passion. There are people in this industry who care passionately about this business, people like me who have been in it for over thirty years and have reaped many benefits from it and have seen all of these schemes come and go many times in the past and this scheme will be no different because it's just a money making scheme shrouded in the guise of an association. At least that is how it looks because CLEAN won't tell us what it is about and that is why everyone should flat refuse to join it until they produce a full prospectus explaining exactly how it will work and answer in detail the many perfectly valid questions put forward by people like Karen Waterworth and others. And if they are not prepared to give us that level of detail and you're desperate to join an association then join the NCCA, at least you know what you're getting for your money.
Simon
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pains me to say this but gotta agree with big G. ahem! sorry, i mean mr gerrard. secrecy casts doubts. when you don't know much about something or someone your bound to be sceptical.
paying to join an association is one thing, paying to find out what an association is, is absurd.
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Derek,
Well said, Sir.
You don't have to be Einstein to work out that if they are trying to charge you £35 to get a ticket to go to the CCDO just to find out what CLEAN is all about then it's a fair bet you'll encounter other TILLs at other convenient points along the road to emptypocketville.
Simon
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£35 Will hardly break the bank or make the organisers rich .
Personally I think it would be easier to stage a coup on the NCCA and use the existing database to change and grow.
I believe the CLEAN people are acting altruisticly and not for self gain , it is a thankless task for them.
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Simon
You have made your feelings about CLEAN quite clear on numerous occasions on this forum and your own.
I think most people are intelligent enough to take the trouble to pick the phone up to find out more information, indeed a great many people have. If they then decide it's not for them, then fine, at least they have made an informed decision.
The only person being "deeply divisive" here is you because CLEAN is of no benefit to you in the short term, therefore you have nothing to lose by constantly berating us and trying to gain support for your views.
Ask the guys that worked on the ship yesterday what they think of CLEAN.
You dont have to pay to attend CCDO to find out more about CLEAN, all you have to do is pick up the phone, instead of demanding answers to questions on here.
You were wrong about the big job and you apologised, which was good of you, but now 24 hours later here you are again trying to discredit us under the guise of "veil of secrecy" - it's not a secret, pick up the phone and ask your questions.
Steve
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Simon,
That's a reasonable answer from Steve, so as they say the balls in your court. Phone the man and ask the questions, then you can post the answers.
If your not willing to do that then it's hardly fair to continue trying to discredit them. Maybe that's not your intention but that's how i'm reading your posts.
Arthur
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.
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This is what C.L.E.A.N require.
etc etc
First and only post under a alias and you go off on one.
Doesn't give you much credibility yourself does it?
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It doesnt bother me that CLEAN are not releasing all the detail until a launch date. Car manufacturers for one are an industry that does just that - they launch a vehicle even though some details of it MAY have been in the public domain beforehand. I have rarely attended a vehicle launch but all the full details were available to all and sundry shortly afterwards.
So it is with CLEAN - no one has to attend the CCDO - and dont forget most of the proceeds of the tickets (face value less the buffet I believe) is going to John Gregorys family. If one chooses not to go then it will all be revealed within hours I am sure, so no panic.
As for consulting with every forum user (and more no doubt) whilst formulating an association - probably will have not got as far as it has today if they had. Thats why you have committees and such like - to take information into account but formulate policies to put to work. More then likely those who have formulated the plan for CLEAN so far have taken into account the feelings of carpet cleaners, tossed things around and formulated some policy. It may not please everybody (cant please all the people all the time) but they are having a go.
Having said all that - I am not for CLEAN, neither am I against it. I am neutral at the moment but interested as to how it pans out.
As for Dave Blue (whoever) - he has said something there that Ricky needs to sort.
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Is it me or have some people got far too much time on their hands
I agree...... while you lot arguing and fighting in the playground would you like us to go and service your customers?? ;D ;D
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valid questions put forward by people like Karen Waterworth
And whilst on the subject of hiding things......who exactly is Karen Waterworth?
No details under the profile and 7 posts of which 6 have been anti CLEAN and the other isn't exactly un-related either.
See, the thing is Simon, that whilst I was keeping an open mind on the CLEAN set-up I have edged a lot more closer to them thanks to a small group who (may or may not be a small group amongst themselves) who seem hell bent on doing everything possible to stop this organisation.
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Glynn's wife who along with Simon runs Truckmount forum.
Tony
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Steve,
Hang on a second here, you're setting out to start a new association and expecting people to part with quite a lot of hard earned money and join it and yet you only want to answer the questions that you want to answer and duck all the really difficult questions which you clearly want to avoid.
Moreover, you and others involved in CLEAN have systematically used these forums to promote CLEAN in any which way you can, so I think it is a bit rich that you and your fellow cohorts are doing their utmost to shut me up because you don't want someone like me asking awkward questions. The reality is, I'm doing you a favour, I'm saving you from taking all of those phone calls because in one foul swoop you can explain to the entire CIU audience what CLEAN is all about and answer some of the questions put to you, like the ones from Karen Waterworth which I'm sure are questions on the lips of many.
Don't you see, it is absolutely incredulous that the only way a prospective member can get his or her questions / concerns about CLEAN answered is either by paying £35 to attend the CCDO, or in a phone call, aren't you going to produce a written prospectus, don't you think the people who you want to speculate £235 on what is a new association that can promise them nothing by way of a return are entitled to know exactly what they are signing up to? IF the CLEAN project is so well thought out and so full of virtue, then why are you running scared of the questions. You should be welcoming the questions, not ducking them.
Believe it or not, Steve, I wish I could support you because I believe passionately in this business which has given me so much. You and others may find it convenient to label me an 'upstart' or 'troublemaker' or any one of innumerable expletives because that is the quick and easy. But let me ask you this, why I am spending so much of my time on this? I'm not making money out of it, clearly not earning any new friends or admirers by doing it, clearly the opposite, or maybe I'm just a bitter twisted old man that's a screw or two lose who aspires to be the most hated man in carpet cleaning, or just maybe... (well, I'll let you make you're own mind up about that.)
Simon
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Simon,
A fellow cohort i'm not and i don't want to shut you up.
I'm merely curious to find out your motives for all the negative posts.
It doesn't look like your interested in joining CLEAN, so what's the real reasons for the probing?
I have no intention of joining clean myself, but the guys involved imo are all decent people.
Arthur
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Simon
I haven't labelled you as anything, I respect you and I believe you respect me, so we all know where we stand.
To repeat myself, we issued a statement on this forum and others inviting people to phone or e-mail for more information - what could be simpler than that and as I said before we have had many enquiries from interested parties.
As for parting with a lot of hard-earned money it's £ 200 no vat, people waste more than that every month on advertising and to repeat myself you don't have to pay to attend CCDO to find out more information - what is so incredulous about making a phone call ?
I'm not trying to shut you up at all, you are entitled to your opinion, in fact you are doing me a favour because all publicity is good publicity, no matter how negative.
You have to pay £ 200 + vat to join the NCCA and you get no promise of anything in return for that either.
You're not the only person that is passionate about this industry, we are too, which is why we are trying to do something positive to support it. I would have thought you would be pleased, instead you label us as "cohorts" and suggest that we have dreamed this up in 5 minutes in "smoke-filled rooms".
I've invited you to phone us on more than one occasion but you still keep coming back at me with another post telling me what you think I should and shouldn't be doing.
CLEAN is pushing ahead with or without your support and trust me when I tell you that I wish it was with your support.
Steve
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What am I hiding???
Karen Waterworth is 5 ft 3" born in Leyland, married to Glynn Waterworth, two children one grandchild, company name Leyland Cleaning Services Ltd, I have been working with Glynn for 21 years.
I have asked 3 questions because i would like to know the answer.
The way i have read the posts on the board, leads me to think that maybe CLEAN is likely to be more of a company that will get big jobs under the company name of CLEAN and then ask for independent companies to do the work for them (sub contacting). I think that is a business relationship.
My idea of an association within the cc world, is that your business has agreed to a set of standards and exams, which the public will trust and if you are a member you can advertise that logo you will then quote and do the work under your own name and the payment is made to you.
Either way both are a good idea because CLEAN can have a data base of cleaning companies that are willing and able to do the work for them and the companies will make money on jobs that they did not think they could do. I think to go on list like that it should be free but you should have to prove to CLEAN that you do work to set standards.
If it's a association again its a good idea because the more the public know about carpet cleaning and the benefits the better, that you should pay a membership for because your paying for advertising, knowledge training etc.
I am not against CLEAN i just would like to know what it is and yes i know i will have to wait until April or ring up but i have put my question on here sorry for that if it has upset some people forgive me...............
Anyway good luck to all cc'c out there what ever you are doing.
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Steve,
If you want my support then come clean about CLEAN. Don't you see what is so damaging here is your obvious reluctance to answer some pretty basic questions about the way CLEAN will operate. Karen Waterworth has asked you some very direct and very prevalent questions about how CLEAN originated jobs are handled between the Association and the member. If you don't know the answer to those questions then who in your organisation does?
You seem to object to anyone asking you anything, yet all you are offering people is the promise of some as yet unstated goal and expect them to blindly sign up willy nilly.
You are asking for £235 membership fee on a brand new association with no track record and are therefore in no position to promise anyone anything other than that they may be throwing their hard earned down the gutter because you cannot even tell them that idea of yours will actually work, so don't you think the people willing to hedge their bets and go with you are entitled to some sort of open and honest disclosure of what CLEAN is all about? Why will you only disclose that information via phone or email, surely this is an opportunity to tell the carpet cleaning world what a great idea this is and have people tripping over themselves trying to join. I just can't see the logic in secrecy, it doesn't make any form of sense. You and your followers claim that it is me that is trying to discredit your organisation when in fact all I and others have done is ask perfectly legitimate questions which you then sidestep, and I'm doing the discrediting????
Simon
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Hi Karen
Firstly, I must apologise for not replying sooner, I must have missed your original question.
Your assessment of CLEAN is a fair one. In the first instance our priority is to raise awareness for the need of carpet cleaning with the public and on that basis the name CLEAN will become linked with that aim. It won't be an easy task and it won't happen overnight, but one of the repeated criticisms of other trade associations is that no-one has heard of them. We aim to change that, so yes a prospective member can use the CLEAN logo to promote their business and win work independantly when they are contacted by a client from their free listing on our website.
In addition to that we are actively seeking contracts as CLEAN which we will then call upon the network of members to service, depending on where in the country it is.
As I've said before, if this means we are not an association in the traditional meaning, then so be it - we are deliberately trying to do something different.
I am sure the guys that worked on the ship yesterday will confirm that it was hard work but well paid.
Again apologies that I didn't reply sooner.
Steve
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Simon
I have just answered Karen, I posted it before seeing your last post.
For the umpteenth time it's not a secret !
Come to think of it Simon I don't remember you ever asking me a question on here, you just keep barking at me !
Steve
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steve
so does CLEAN set the pay rate?, take it or leave it kind of thing on these contracts. if so i would find that quite unfair if working along side a portable. not because i think i'm better than a portable but because they get free electric where as i pay for my fuel.
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Derek
Yes we set the rate, the point you raise didn't arise yesterday because everyone used portables.
As for having to pay for your own fuel - well I don't see much difference between that and the fact that some guys yesterday drove 10 miles to the job while others drove 75 miles - we all have expenses that we incur when working.
Steve
PS: glad to hear you got your pump sorted
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Steve,
OK, here is a question. Now that you have finally opened up and admitted that CLEAN is far more of a franchise operation that it is an Association can you please answer these questions which I am sure will be of interest to others:
So, you negotiate these contracts:
1) Does clean make a profit on each and every job?
2) How is CLEAN going to ensure that all members, regardless of where they are in the country get a share of the work and therefore a return on their investment, please be specific?
3) If some members get work and others don't, will you refund the losers membership fees or is that just tough?
4) If you are trading your services, or your members services on the open market, aren't you in actual fact either a franchise or a network and if so why don't you set yourself up as that in the first place?
5) And if you are in actual fact a franchise or network why are you charging £235 for people to join when all you are doing is selling their services and making a profit from them?
6) I have sub-contractors working for me but I don't charge them to be on my database, why are you?
7) What hourly rate will your members be getting?
I hope you will be honest and open with your replies then finally we can all get to grips with what CLEAN is, or is NOT.
Simon
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Simon
First of all, I haven't admitted that CLEAN is a franchise operation, they are your words not mine.
Let me answer the rest of your questions as honestly as I can, but please bear in mind that despite nearly 18 months of planning we have only been launched for 2 weeks - nothing is set in stone and any companies procedures need some tweaking in the early stages.
1. CLEAN is a non-profit making organisation. The job price yesterday was shared evenly among the workers less the cost of pre-spray, rinse solution, plug adaptors etc which we provided.
2. We do not and cannot guarantee that every member will benefit from working on CLEAN jobs, it depends where they are in the country and where the project is. However, at least we are trying to get contracts which is more than other associations do (not that they have ever claimed to offer this to their members)
3. No we won't refund membership fees, just as the NCCA don't if you don't get any enquiries from their website. Do Yellow Pages give you a refund if you don't get any work from your advert with them ?
4. You can call us any name you like Simon, I don't see the relevancy of the question. We are certainly not a franchise, if you prefer to call us a network then that's your choice.
5. We are charging £ 200 membership plus £ 35 entrance exam fee. We are not making a profit from anyone. Any business or association has running costs. The prospective member gets free promotional items and a free listing on the members page of our website, which I think I am right in saying costs £ 75 + vat with the NCCA (but I stand to be corrected)
6. I've just answered that.
7. Thats really none of your business Simon.
I presume now that I have answered the questions that you posed Simon you will give us all a break from your relentless badgering and criticism - or is that just wishful thinking on my part ?
Thats all from me for one day, I've got my own business to look after and a family, I will check in tomorrow to see what else you are going to accuse of us.
Steve
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cheers for the answer steve, appreciate it. don't agree with it, but thats my prob not yours.
must admit, very impressive getting the big job you guys got.
trouble for me is, i don't want people getting me work and telling me how much to earn, i want my organisation to generate me leads through education and "in your face" marketting. that way i can carry on being self employed which is what we all truly want.
personally i think clean are overcomplicating a simple solution by trying to do too much, i actually heard you were thinking of providing your own brand of chems too, now that really can't be good for the industry.
when someone sets up a simple organisation that simply advertises a "standard" of cleaning to the public, with a contact website where they find a qualified cleaner then i'm in.
anyway, thats what i want. and therefore CLEAN is not for me, but that doesn't stop me from wishing you well and if you can get jobs like the last one then i'm sure you guys will be fine. all the best.
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the replies.
I have to totally disagree that question 7 (what hourly rate will members be getting) is none of my business. I like many others am a prospective member and how much I might earn per hour is upper most in my mind when deciding whether or not I would want to take on CLEAN work anf therefore shell out £235 to become a member and I would imagine there would be many others wanting to know the answer to that question.
Simon
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(1) i don't want people getting me work and telling me how much to earn,
(2) i actually heard you were thinking of providing your own brand of chems too,
(1) So if I go out and price up let's say a Premier Inn at £1600 and they want it all done in one day, is it so wrong to put it around that I need four carpet cleaners for 5 hours and I'll give them £400 each. It would be totally impracticable and suicidal to invite the '4' carpet cleaners to all go and have a look and submit prices of £250 £350 £400 and £600. What's going to happen when each finds out what the other got for doing the same amount of work.
(2) Same as above because someone has to make a decision on continuity, not having one using MS another Double Clean and some smart allic with Ultrapac Renovate.
I really think some are trying to find fault just for the sake of finding fault.
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I think its ludricous to expect an association to advertise prices anywhere - especially on an open forum. Each job has its own merits/costs and would differ everytime anyway. How bizzarre. So I would re-inforce what has been said - it has nothing to do with you.
Also like has been stated many many times already, the fee is £200 - perhaps you have a problem with understanding this Simon?
Fishing for prices (pardon the pun) is so obvious too, as we all know that you work on ships and would value this info very much.
Also, why state that you are a prospective member of CLEAN when you have made it very clear that you dont want anything to do with it - apart from run it down...I wonder why.
Mark
Guys - good luck with CLEAN!
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Simon if you think CLEAN is a franchise then you don't know what a franchise is.
CLEAN is not an association more an 'organisation' if you insist on labeling it.
there is no promise of work! you got to get your own, if your offered its a bonus and thats more than NCCA offers.
I know these things becaused I asked, there was no secrets, pick up the phone an ask.
PS. I went on the ship job it went very well, and was well organised, the pay was good.
I did not have to join and have not been asked to, maybe in the future members will get first shout, thats fair enough. Dont know if I'l join or not.
I understand theres other bigger ships in the offing.
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(1) i don't want people getting me work and telling me how much to earn,
(2) i actually heard you were thinking of providing your own brand of chems too,
(1) So if I go out and price up let's say a Premier Inn at £1600 and they want it all done in one day, is it so wrong to put it around that I need four carpet cleaners for 5 hours and I'll give them £400 each. It would be totally impracticable and suicidal to invite the '4' carpet cleaners to all go and have a look and submit prices of £250 £350 £400 and £600. What's going to happen when each finds out what the other got for doing the same amount of work.
(2) Same as above because someone has to make a decision on continuity, not having one using MS another Double Clean and some smart allic with Ultrapac Renovate.
I really think some are trying to find fault just for the sake of finding fault.
So if i went to price up lets say a holiday inn @ £1600 and they want it all done in one day, is it so wrong to put it around that I need four carpet cleaners for 5 hours and I'll give them £200 each that leave me with £800 (cos i am a Ltd company and i pay myself a wage of £800 per day that week and (omg no profit in the job) oh thats a good thing no corp tax
No i can find no fault with this, i think it's a good business to be in. What should i call myself??
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What are you on about?
Other than trying to re-worrd what I wrote to justify.....let me guess
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Simon is CORRECT the cost of joining CLEAN is £235.
It's simple to work out
1st annual charge £200
Entrance exam £35
TOTAL £235
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Nothing wrong with a set of poor, stinking, retched carpet cleaning mugs trying to claw a living for themselves. Your all desperate and deprived anyhow.
Matt
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Can i open a book and take bets this gets locked or taken down in the next day or so!!! ::) ::)
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Is it me or have some people got far too much time on their hands
I been trawling through all this crap but what a great post Richard :D
i have no opinion one way or the other but i am always sceptical,first looking at whos making out of it,sorry to offend as i dont mean to maybe its kind hearted generosity and the good of the industry but at the moment i am trying to get my business started and i will let all this in fighting settle down before i decide which side of the fence i am on ::) oh and by the way "i hate tests" i did the NCCA one and dont consider myself thick but put a pen in my hand with a set of questions and you might as well say your trousers are on fire the results are the same :-[
Anyway i have hundreds of years experience, if i dont know i come on here of contact the NCCA.
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(1) i don't want people getting me work and telling me how much to earn,
(2) i actually heard you were thinking of providing your own brand of chems too,
(1) So if I go out and price up let's say a Premier Inn at £1600 and they want it all done in one day, is it so wrong to put it around that I need four carpet cleaners for 5 hours and I'll give them £400 each. It would be totally impracticable and suicidal to invite the '4' carpet cleaners to all go and have a look and submit prices of £250 £350 £400 and £600. What's going to happen when each finds out what the other got for doing the same amount of work.
(2) Same as above because someone has to make a decision on continuity, not having one using MS another Double Clean and some smart allic with Ultrapac Renovate.
I really think some are trying to find fault just for the sake of finding fault.
neil
what on earth are you getting at with all this premier inn £1600 quid 4 carpet cleaner
i don't want someone getting me work and telling me what i have to do it for, thats it. nothing else, i can get my own work and i do it very well. . if i did quote for a job and they said we want it doing in a day, i'd call simon and glyn and go thirds on it. ;D
i'm airing my views on an open forum, nothing nasty or derogatory, just giving my two penneth worth, stop getting all defensive and dat. chill winston ;D
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question
are the guys on here that don't think clean is for them or disagree with a few of its ideas, not actually allowed to comment on it and give there reasons why?
surely these comments should be welcomed for future reference. not saying CLEAN should change just because of our disagreements but at least take them on board.
if i was starting an association i'd take more notice of the posters that said they didn't want to join and would welcome there reasons why, rather than berate them at every opportunity.
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I'm really pleased that CLEAN have now opened up a little and let us know what it is all about and from what we have now been told about how they will operate we can all make a far more informed decision as to whether or not we would won't to join a scheme like that.
I don't want to prolong the debate but I would just like to plead with the leadership of CLEAN to think about what they are doing and recognise that they are not in a position to offer anyone anything other than the hope that from a seedling CLEAN may in time grow into something that represents value for money for the people willing to speculate on it in it's start up state and make it clear that any benefit that make come to the members is a very long way off. I think the leadership need to be honest and open about that and it is that lack of honesty and openness coupled to the secrecy about what is proposed that is the source of my vehement opposition to it.
I wish the project well.
Simon
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I don't want to prolong the debate
Funniest thing I've ever read on this forum!!!!!!
(and that is my only contribution to this ridiculous topic)
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I wish the project well.
Simon
This ones pretty funny too! ;D ;D
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it is that lack of honesty...
Simon
This ones hilarious too ;D ....where does he get these lines? Certainly not from any facts :D :D
Mark
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"any benefit that make come to the members is a very long way off."
Tell that to the 46 from monday
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"any benefit that make come to the members is a very long way off."
Tell that to the 46 from monday
were you on the mon job jason
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No I am a dirt swirler
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valid questions put forward by people like Karen Waterworth
And whilst on the subject of hiding things......who exactly is Karen Waterworth?
This post has got to me, what was I hiding, unsure, the question I asked was straight forward, and for that you put my honesty and character into question??
and the second post I put on was about you, why would you do a job for a hotel and do the work and not make a profit, you divided the cost of the job by 4 and not 5?? what about your cut??
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This post has got to me, what was I hiding, unsure, the question I asked was straight forward, and for that you put my honesty and character into question??
and the second post I put on was about you, why would you do a job for a hotel and do the work and not make a profit, you divided the cost of the job by 4 and not 5?? what about your cut??
I know I should just ignore anymore comments but somehow some people just need telling.
Karen, at the time of my comment you had made a grand total of 7 posts on Clean it Up, 6 of those were anti CLEAN and the other wasn't unconnected either.
I thought I'd see who you were as I didn't have a clue how someone new to the forum could have such outspoken comments about the subject. Looked at your profile and there was nothing in there. When others do this the alarm bells start ringing because there are many who use false names.
Clearly some people know who you are, I didn't. Hopefully that clears it up for you now.
Quick amendment to post: To answer your 2nd part I was making a point about how you share out the value of a job equally. Please tell me you understand that or else I'm wasting valuable time when I could be doing something else. You can't have one operator getting paid £250 another £400 for exactly the same thing etc etc. Please tell me that makes sense?
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Thanks Neil for clearing that up for me, I am sorry if it looks like i am anti CLEAN, I dont mean to be, I was just trying to find info about what CLEAN is, now I know it is a business opportunity or co op, I think it is a good idea what these guys have done. But i still think you should not pay for the honor. Again I wish them luck.
Neil like you said "there are many who use false names", I do not, but again I understand what you mean because false address get used also.
PS I will go and put my web address on my profile straight away, is there a place on the profile for my DNA and fingerprints, sorry only joking ;)
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Nothing wrong with a set of poor, stinking, retched carpet cleaning mugs trying to claw a living for themselves. Your all desperate and deprived anyhow.
Matt
Cheeky git!
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Nothing wrong with a set of poor, stinking, retched carpet cleaning mugs trying to claw a living for themselves. Your all desperate and deprived anyhow.
Matt
Cheeky git!
So funny , I know of several carpet cleaners scraping by in 500k plus houses , some of them posting on here every day ,, none work long hours , all drive fancy cars and have fancy holidays, I personally take 8-10 weeks a year off on holiday .
Its a hard life .
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Well said jason ;D
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Just booked to go to Ingoldmells so does that mean me?
Fantasy Island can't beat it ;D
Shaun
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Just booked to go to Ingoldmells so does that mean me?
Fantasy Island can't beat it ;D
Shaun
Thank goodness for The Sun tokens eh Shaun or we would never get a holiday.
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On a purely practical and selfish point, I paid my £35.00 online on february 10th and have heard nothing back, should I have done?
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On a purely practical and selfish point, I paid my £35.00 online on february 10th and have heard nothing back, should I have done?
I've paid too, they'll have a record of who's paid so I presume we just turn up! Perhaps we should take a copy of the transaction, just to be on the safe side!
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Trying to think, last year you just purchased, turned up and get your name tag.
Simple enough, keeps costs down.
As Colin says take your transaction, bit like carpex.
Andrew
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Hi Phil
Thats a good point. The transaction reciept is your invoice and we have a list. Sorry, I realise it's not particularly sophisticated but anything that is costs and (despite the dribble you hear sometimes) we want all, bar the buffet cost, income to make it John's family.
Pete