Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gaza on June 27, 2005, 05:10:05 pm
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Ive just beem informed that a new window cleaner has appeared on my patch and is 1.50p cheaper than my lowest price. Im wfp and its taking me ages to get round my round,cus havent got a trolly yet and the houses I do have long gardens so its all long hose work.
MY PROBLEM IS should I (This first option is removed by moderator as it's WRONG (it involved violence and there's no place for that on this forum)).
report him to h/s/e for working of ladders only
tell the tax office
tell social
tell anybody who will listen
(Moderator: This one also hints at violence; therefore removed)
or should I shake his hand {throat} (Moderator: dodgy - but will leave it for the humour content) for taking the food of my plate.
Im complying with all h/s issues so why should a cowboy cleaner come and steal my legal work. and dissapear in winter
Ive never grassed anyone for anything in my life but this is war or starvation.
my question is with the Goverment bringing in these new guide lines is anyone policing them cowboys.
Im sorry to say that ladder workers[ladder against the wall no safety devices guys] are beging to get up my nose.
MOST OF THEM iVE SPOKEN TO MAKING THEM AWERE OF THE NEW GUIDE LINES ,are arrogant know it alls who dont give a monkeys behind to the regs.that leaves me in the position Im facing now.
What would you do.[back to ladders v wfp again] execpt wfpolers have more clout now.
NO OFFENCE MEANT TO GENUINE LADDER USERS{COMPLYING WITH REGS.
GAZA
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no such thing as "your patch" business is business
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sorry have to agree with northern some of my rounds have three window cleaners on at any one time we all get on good as gold
ps there are more windows than there are window cleaners
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okay you two : tell me where your round is ILL be up tommorrow to take your work off you okay.
;D
I had a lad start on my area a few months ago,welcomed him
all bright and shiney ladders ,and stepladder?
Gave him tips,now dogged his squeezy for him,told him to get rid of stepladders as they are very dangerous.we get on like a house on fire. told him my lowest price to give him an idea,
CARNT BE NO FAIRER THAN THAT CAN ONE?
GAZA
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Ive just beem informed that a new window cleaner has appeared on my patch and is 1.50p cheaper than my lowest price. Im wfp and its taking me ages to get round my round,cus havent got a trolly yet and the houses I do have long gardens so its all long hose work.
MY PROBLEM IS should I knock him out.
report him to h/s/e for working of ladders only
tell the tax office
tell social
tell anybody who will listen
stand at the bottom of his ladder when Ifind him and give it a shake
or should I shake his hand {throat} for taking the food of my plate.
Im complying with all h/s issues so why should a cowboy cleaner come and steal my legal work. and dissapear in winter
Ive never grassed anyone for anything in my life but this is war or starvation.
my question is with the Goverment bringing in these new guide lines is anyone policing them cowboys.
Im sorry to say that ladder workers[ladder against the wall no safety devices guys] are beging to get up my nose.
MOST OF THEM iVE SPOKEN TO MAKING THEM AWERE OF THE NEW GUIDE LINES ,are arrogant know it alls who dont give a monkeys behind to the regs.that leaves me in the position Im facing now.
What would you do.[back to ladders v wfp again] execpt wfpolers have more clout now.
NO OFFENCE MEANT TO GENUINE LADDER USERS{COMPLYING WITH REGS.
GAZA
Well for starters I don't regard any area as my "patch" but I wouldn't be tooimpressed if someone started targetting my customers. Having said that, if you supply a good service and are reliable, it's unlikely that you will lose many if at all. If you do lose any, you're better off without them.
I lost a lot of work last year through being unreliable. Not my fault but I had a bad illness that went on a long time. Some of the customers I lost are drifting back to me now. I charge them more. In the long term, this poacher might end up doing you a favour. When he becomes ancient history (usually a few weeks after the weather turns cold) and the customers swallow their pride and ask you to return, put the price up.
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Gaza
Don't let it worry you and carry on how you are.
Just keep on trying to get more work which is paying more than this estate is, so when the other cleaner has either fallen off his ladder or done a bunk and you past customers beg for you to take them back on.
Thats when revenge is sweet.
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Everyone is free to look for work where ever, if he is actually asking your prices and then offering to do it for less then he isn't actually under cutting intentionaly, if that is the case I would have a word with him, otherwise just tell him he is under cutting himself.
As for using ladders, I am still under the impression that there is no law against using a ladder on domestic properties, I use both ladder and pole, whichever is the quicker method for the individual job.
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Shinner and William : YEAH KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYIG IS QUITE CORRECT, but trying to play by the rules isnt getting me anywhere,so many around here are either working illegal or not complying is it the same throughout the UK I ask myself ?
GAZA
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HI gaza
When this happens to me which dosnt happen often I always tell the customer that there is always somebody who will do the job cheaper. However I'm reliable and have to pay insurance to protect your property while I work on it and if I loose any customers down to a cheaper price then I never take them on again.
Tell them that if somebody is doing it cheaper than your cheapest then they wouldnt last long.
All of this I am sure you would know.
Some years ago I turn up on one of my roads and was told by most of my customers that they had a new w/c and was shocked to see me. It turns out that a w/c company had been round and told everyone that I had given up and would they like this new company to carry on. Of course when me customers found out that this had been a lie they came straight back to me.
Now how do you think that made me feel?
By the way Marc. If this new w/c asks what the price is of the current w/c and then offers it for less is undercutting. I dont know how you can see it any other way.
I am with you on the ladders though. I am going over to wfp but only on some jobs, most my work is not suitable for wfp and I am still very safe on a ladder(as safe as can be)
Steveyboy
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When money is involved and its quite easy to get then you do get the mingers who try to suckup as much of it as possible.
If they are on benefits I believe the goverment pay £100 (someone told me this was the figure though not to sure) for every reliable tip off.
You could end up making a living off this, say when its raining ;D
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Shinner and William : YEAH KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYIG IS QUITE CORRECT, but trying to play by the rules isnt getting me anywhere,so many around here are either working illegal or not complying is it the same throughout the UK I ask myself ?
GAZA
I suppose it could be said that I'm not complying either - though I'm not totally clear on what the law is as I've seen a few interpretations. I think that so long as I'm ensuring that the ladder is safe, then I am complying. I use ladder mitts for the top of the ladder and, if I judge that there may be some risk from slippage at the bottom of the ladder, then I use damp heavy duty oven cloth under it. I find that on damp patios, it works better than a ladder stopper. On certain jobs I use a 4 metre double point ladder as there is no safe way to use an ordinary ladder on certain windows.
I have experienced a couple of near-misses and I don't take safety lightly. Sometimes I will use a pole (not water-fed) on certain windows if conditions make it unsafe to use a ladder.
Because you have asked (and ONLY because you have asked) I would say DON'T grass him up. I do believe in what goes around comes around. If you grassed on him, it would probably make you feel bad at some level.
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Everyone is free to look for work where ever, if he is actually asking your prices and then offering to do it for less then he isn't actually under cutting intentionaly, if that is the case I would have a word with him, otherwise just tell him he is under cutting himself.
As for using ladders, I am still under the impression that there is no law against using a ladder on domestic properties, I use both ladder and pole, whichever is the quicker method for the individual job.
yes hes been asking my prices, 5 squid for 6 windows and 2 doors isnt a bad price up here but for3,50p for the same work is not livable on unless your on the dole as well
EVERYONE IS ABLE TO LOOK FOR WORK IN THE EEC.its because of them that Im now finding myself in this position,me using wfp them using ladders against regs.
RE domestic ladder use, the regs apply to them as well.OR ELSE THE TRADE MAGS AVE GOT IT WRONG
GAZA
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If you are providing a good service - good timekeeping - good rapport with customers and doing a decent job of cleaning, how many customers do you seriously think you are going to lose - I think you ought to give yourself a bit more credit and don't even think about the new guy :)
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Davindo : GOT ALL OF THOSE : execpt time keeping, along way behind for first time in 4 yrs on this estate change over period.TO WFP, MAYBE DOING TO GOOD A JOB,I feel as though the rug has been pulled from under my feet,cus hes also telling them hes taken over the round customer just informed me.THE HELL HE IS.
GAZA
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If he is only charging £3.50 a house, he might not do them for long then charge extra when they next ask you.
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okay you two : tell me where your round is ILL be up tommorrow to take your work off you okay.
if your customers are going with the other guy then they arnt worth having.
i clean for a company and i do it for £150.oo per month.
Another wfp user went there last week and said hed do it for £50.00 they told him where to go as "me" goes back on time,reliable,polite? so he didnt get them.
Also i clean a house for a well know media person £200.00 per month and they had the same thing happen they were told where to go by the estate manager didnt cate they said they would do it cheaper .They aint worth having if they defect to someone else and when they call you back in a few months then tripple your orriginal price.
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as long as he isnt poaching your work and undercutting you ide let him get on with it but if he steals any of your customers then 'speak to him strongly about it' (Mod changed advice slightly - you lot have been on the Carling!).
good luck
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Gaza, if he's making out that he has taken over the round, that's totally devious - makes it seem less likely that he is legit - don't think I would be too happy either :-[
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If he is actively poaching your work, and even saying that he is taking over your round, then write (or get someone to do it for you) a very profesional looking letter thats spells out what is happening. Deliver this to all of your customers, but don't name him! And be careful with the wording.
Don't let any anger show in what you put on paper, be factual, point out the pitfalls of this type of unprofesional conduct.
Point out your prices are competitive and fair, that you are regular and have been going for a long time (however long that may be)
You are highly unlikely to lose more than a handful of accounts.
Also; Don't have any qualms about informing the DHSS, if he's a dole cheat he deserves to be shopped.
If you actually catch him working then have a word with him, point out that you don't mind competition and tell in no uncertain fashion that you will be an unhappy bunny if he aproaches your customers again and tells them that he is taking over your round >:(
Leave out the violence, that can backfire on you, a brawling window cleaner is not going to enamour to any customers you have who get to hear of it :-\
Regards,
Ian
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IAN; I now know why they call this forum cleanitup,the mods cleanup everything put on here ;D aving a lauff
IAN something wrong with you font everything is in red ;D
IT MUST BE NICE TO BE AT PEACE WITH ONES SELF ALL THE TIME
WATCH OUT:a guy like this could be coming to a place near you shortly.
Ive not sacrificed 4 yrs of not aving a holiday for some clampit to bounce of me.
will you send a food parcel to the needy and desperate?
GAZA :D
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Sorry, Gaza, it's me that does the 'red stuff'.
I'm a failed school teacher. Honest. Just one exam let me down!
My eleven plus!
But seriously, there might be younger, more impressionable guys here who, from your lead might think this is the proper way to do business.
Don't make me show that photo of you again, and at 50 years old, your fisticuff days should be put well behind you; because you're older and more mature now!
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Gaza When this happened to me I did not lose a single customer. I tell the customers about a wc friend of mine .He had a couple of lads appear in the area that he worked. They said they would do the work for half the price. When my friend made some enquiries he found that one of these lads had just come out after doing 18 months for burglary.
Now this lad may well have seen the error of his ways and be trying to make a new start, but would you want him looking through your windows?
If this guy said that you had packed in your round, your customers already know he's a liar. What else do they need to know about him.
Explain to your customers that you are trying to comply with new regs, the difficulty of coming to grips with a new system, and that you value their custom.
If you are really worried post leaflets to the customers that you are behind with explaining your situation. Good luck mate, Dai
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Hi Gaza
I've had issues like this in the past. Had a couple of guys tell my customers that I've quit, few trying to undercut etc. Truth is that I've never lost any significant amount of work in ten years. Best thing is to carry on as usual offering the best reliable and quality service you can and they'll all stick with you. It's true about needing to know your enemy and when they try and pull a fast one and you've just got to keep ahead of them. If they are really devious and say that you've quit etc knock up a letter as Ian suggested and always keep your customer informed about the nasty tricks these guys are up to.
The unproffessional guys will just help you in the end cos their tricks make you look great, honest and reliable so let them get on with it. If they undercut you just tell customer that these guys only ever last a few cleans before they get bored with getting crap money and you charge a decent price because you are so reliable and turn up all year round.
I know how you probably feel cos you can really feel worried that your going to lose everything. That's how I felt the first few times it happened to me anyway. Now I just let them get on with it and they normally dig their own hole.
Cheers
Dom
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:-[ GAZZA ,
SORRY IVE HAD TO UNDERCUT YOU BUT IN ALL THIS HOT WEATHER 8) 8) I NEED SOME EXTRA BEER MONEY :o
SO PLEASE FORGIVE ME >:( ONLY JOKING ;D ;D ;D
GAZZA IS A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, FROM EXPIERENCE HE WOULD HELP ANYONE OUT HE HAS GIVEN ME SOME GOOD ADVICE AND HE PUT 100% IN TO HIS WORK .
GAZZA READING THE REPLIES YOU HAVE HAD FROM THIS FORUM YOU CANT GO WRONG YOUVE GOT NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, EVERY WINDOW CLEANER COMES ACROSS OTHER WINDOW CLEANERS FROM TIME TO TIME LOOKING FOR BUSINESS, AS LONG AS YOU DO YOUR JOB AS YOUVE ALWAYS DONT IT YOU'LL BE OK. YOU COULD ALWAYS BE ON HAND FOR YOUR RIVAL JUST INCASE HIS LADDER SLIPS :P OOOPS ;D
GOOD LUCK MATE
BRETT.
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Gaza
You say that its taking you longer the clean windows using wfp than it was when you where on the ladders.
If you describe how you go about cleaning you customers houses then maybe some of us fellow wfp guys could give tips on how to speed you up without losing the quality of the clean.
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WILLIAMX; 1ST these council estates have gardens 30 + ft long X by1x2x 3 houses down .I realiase my downfall [not enough hose] no seriously Im lacking a trolley system.
hoses snagging you know the normal stuff, William I thankyou for you offer of help,but seriously think Im well enough tuned in to wfp after 2x3 yrs at it [commercial] but its private thats doing me head in as well as BRETT WALKER [hi buddy]
my problem is with robert head formally known as D... H... or whats his name.
as you know Brett weve spoke about this in NOTTM before 8)
yesterday Iwas boasting on this forum 1squid each customer =100 squid pay rise on average for everyone. well now Im worrying about my buiss going downward[THE HELL IT IS, AT 50 STILL CAN SORT IT OUT. BUT NOW i HAVE TO THINK WHICH WAY
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IAN; I now know why they call this forum cleanitup,the mods cleanup everything put on here ;D aving a lauff
;D - we're laughing at you m8.
graham Im not laughing at your boring 1 liners . (Modified: by Windows Chepstow - you know why Gaza)
GAZA AVING A LAUFF [AT YOUR EXPENCE]
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Gaza,
If you got to bed at a reasonable time and wern't posting at 2 AM you might calm down a bit and see life as others do.
He who is of calm and happy nature will hardly feel the pressure of age, but to him who is of an opposite disposition youth and age are equally a burden.
Plato (427 BC - 347 BC), The Republic
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Gaza,
I wouldn't worry either. Recently a company called PM Window Cleaning leafleted one of 'my' areas.
They claim to be the biggest and cheapest window cleaning company in South Wales. They even have a big ad in the Yellow Pages (or is the Local Pages?) saying they're the cheapest because they clean thousands of residential properties throughout South Wales.
I've not lost ONE customer to them; even though I've told my customers I've heard nothing of an adverse nature about them.
If you do a good job; your customers won't want to replace you.
Even your most intellectually challenged customer should realise; The Devil they know is better than the Devil they don't.
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BEAR BEEN UP OVER AN HR ,DONT NEED MUCH SLEEP,just making sure the young one gets of to school,Mrs been at work since 6am,my turn at 8,45am
if you carnt sleep get up and do something,instead of lying there and worrying,
its the worry that gets you not the lack of sleep.
Baltasar Gracian
IVE GOT PLENTY OF TIME TO SLEEP WHEN IM DEAD
gaza 2005
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A month ago I carded a development of 3 storey townhouses/apartments and had calls immediately from a number of residents who all told me they had not seen their window cleaner for over 3 months. I agreed a price of £6-£10 (some are quite small and some a bit bigger) The previous cleaner was charging £3.50 and wouldn`t do the top floor windows which I can pole easily.
I`m due back there this week (so another month has passed) but yesterday had a call from the window cleaner who has decided to return...possibly because the weather is fine at the moment...he tells me he has been on holiday and has done all the windows in that area today, so I don`t have to go back. He got my card off a resident.
"that must be 4 months since you have last been then...and in that time, at least 6 people have contacted me to clean their windows...i`ll ask them first what they want to do."
He was reasonably polite about it but I intend asking my customers if indeed they have gone back to him.
If they have...more fool them...when it`s another 4 months and they ask me back..prices will have gone right up...
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I'm a failed school teacher. Honest. Just one exam let me down!
My eleven plus!
Chepstow you make me laugh
Steveyboy
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Dont worry mate.....
ive had cowboys trying to get in on my round.......
what tends to happen is 3 things.....
1.... they are never regular and the customer gets peed off...
2.... they make such a mess of windows that customers get peed off
3.... they realise they are doing the job for to little money and never come back
i lost 5 houses in 1 street because of flyboys .. 3 months later the customers were begging me to do their windows again as he wasnt regular then never came back..... needless to say each customer is more than grateful when i arrive ...(on time) .... and clean their windows properly..
one even makes me a bacon roll and cup of tea LOL ;)
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Gazza
I understand the problems you have I started out on the type of houses you decribed yet I had to travel sometimes 100 yards down by 8-10 along and go over the local rubbish dump too. As it happens that the one I got for today, anyway I found that using a backpack saved me.
I use one from Cleantech but I have since found the same machine on a gardening website for £55 cheaper sorry mike, all you have to do is connect the wfp hose to it, which is a doddle.
http://www.spraytech.uk.com/acatalog/Knapsack_Sprayers.html
I have also fitted a hose to the lid which I connect to a pump to fill up with, saves taking it off all the time.
Don't worry about dick he soon move on, I had the same problem a while back he even went into shops where I have got advertisments, told them I gone out of business and took these down >:( anyway I can't talked about what happened next ;D
Anyway hopes this helps
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I cant believe what i'm reading HERE!!
Iv'e just started W/C--i'm canvassing in my local area, got quite a few customers but one local cleaner is slagging me off to other cleaners he reckons i'm taking his work!
Am i supposed to know every house he or any other cleaner cleans, it seems this bloke used to clean some of these houses & they wasn't happy with him ( for one reason or another) & i can guarantee i charge more than he did.
The times i've read on this forum--on a rainy day i go canvassing--what do you do put an ad in the paper & ask --window cleaners please phone me if you clean this certain area as i'm going to canvass it!!!
Sounds pathetic dose'nt it.
I canvass fairly if they say they have a cleaner i say thanks anyway & move on.
This certain bloke keeps glaring at me & he's really winding me up.
I suppose i'm feeling like Gaza--not nice whichever side of the fence your on.
Regards Ray.
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Ray,
I too had a few difficulties when I first started from two local window cleaners (on seperate occassions). Both times threats were made towards me. (I will admit I did wind one of them up first - but that's just my sense of humour).
Stuff 'em, Mate. If you're canvassing fairly; then that's fine. Most people who're happy with their window cleaner won't change.
Why not try smiling at the 'other window cleaner' introduce yourself to him and explain what you're about. Tell him your canvassing method and re-assure him that you're not looking to 'nick' his work.
Network with other window cleaners. I've been given some quality work from window cleaners who didn't want a particular job or two and done the same favour to others.
There's not one window cleaner in Chepstow/Caldicot area who I've bumped into and not introduced myself too. Some are friendlier than others; but on the whole they're a good bunch of lads round here. With the exception of the two that threatend me! But they're both druggies; so no worries.
Window cleaning should be stress-free; there's no need for any animosity.
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Hi
My veiw is simply 'don't worry'. The way I see the competition is that it will always be there and sometimes it can appear unfair. That's how it goes.
Also, if I do loose business then so what?
In the same way that I got business to start with I can always get more business now or tomorrow.
Anyway, my experience is that most worries regarding losing work to someone else usually don't happen.
Cheers
Ross
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To all on this forum who gave me advice on this subject,this is the first time it has happenned to me,and quite a shock it was to,
The second customer Iwent to today cancelled because they had got themselves another window cleaner,I thanked them for being a customer,warned them about using ladders only without safety devices,and my parting words was see you in the winter.
Carried on and never lost another one everyone has been brand new on my round.
Then bumped into a customer going to pickup their child from school she informed me he had been on their close today, so I will know were he should be tommorrow ,guess were Im going to be tommorrow.
gaza
you guessed taking the valueable advice offered on here and just carry on regaurdless, can do with pruning my round ,spotted some big leaded houses not far away from my round , wfp fodder
can cope with one loss a day.
gaza
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my patch, my area,
from what some of you are saying it would seem that you clean every window in "your area" i doubt that.
secondly every new starter is a cowboy with no longevity "unfair" thank god that the other window cleaners in "my area" are not like that in fact one gives me at least one job per week. This site is usefull but also insulting to aspiring businessmen like me who want to earn a living off our own back.
I must be a cowboy then' because i am trying to build a customer base high price not low good quality work though, how many of you take 30mins on a ten pound house, i do
and i use ladders, i must be crap then.
i have leafleted a lot lately where there must be other cleaners, no way do they do all the houses or i would not be getting any , but i am and i am probably more expensive.
losing customers , get some more, plenty left
simb0
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Hi,
Not been on the forum for a while, just had a read through this thread and I cannot see what the problem is!
Healthy competition is good for everyone, it makes sure we are all doing a good timely job for our customers and supplying them with quality at the correct price and if our customers are unhappy with us then they have the option of trying someone else.
Nobody should think they have a monopoly in their area, we have a good, large established business, but I never take it for granted that it will be guaranteed for ever, many things change and customers will only tolerate so much, whether it is regarding quality of service or price.
Gaza, do your job and do it to the best of your ability, charge a consistent price throughout your round and you will have little to worry about, you may lose some who do not like the idea of WFP, but you will gain a lot bigger fish by advertising that you are WFP
Regards
Ian
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if you carnt sleep get up and do something,instead of lying there and worrying,
its the worry that gets you not the lack of sleep.
Baltasar Gracian
gaza 2005
Excelent quote.
Sorry if i was a bit off :-[ just keep going, the cowboys wont last.
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I`d be more disappointed in the customer for cancelling rather than the new WC`er. Then you realise that you`re better off without customers like that.
Gerry.
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Hey Gaza...
I can understand your frustration. If this WC is giving prices a lot lower than yours so he can get the customers, he really isn't much of a threat. We all know what we make and what we need in order to get by. These guys who come around with such tactics rarely succeed.
I think the best advice given was from Ian Giles. Within that letter, you can provide your credentials for being on the up and up of things. Like, ladder safety; insurance; business licence and the like. Also, if he is cheating the system (no insurance, licence, etc...) I would report it too.
No offense to anyone, but if I knew someone was intentionally poaching my customers and he isn't straight with the laws, I would have the authorities involved. Most of us have worked too hard to build a legitimate, successful business, just to have it undermined by someone who cheats the system.
On the other hand, I encourage good relations with other WC's who have a straight, legal business. There are a couple I know in my area who I have given work to because it was in an area that I don't work in. When we see each other in areas we both compete in, we have some laughs and move on.
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Hey Gaza...
I can understand your frustration. If this WC is giving prices a lot lower than yours so he can get the customers, he really isn't much of a threat. We all know what we make and what we need in order to get by. These guys who come around with such tactics rarely succeed.
I think the best advice given was from Ian Giles. Within that letter, you can provide your credentials for being on the up and up of things. Like, ladder safety; insurance; business licence and the like. Also, if he is cheating the system (no insurance, licence, etc...) I would report it too.
No offense to anyone, but if I knew someone was intentionally poaching my customers and he isn't straight with the laws, I would have the authorities involved. Most of us have worked too hard to build a legitimate, successful business, just to have it undermined by someone who cheats the system.
On the other hand, I encourage good relations with other WC's who have a straight, legal business. There are a couple I know in my area who I have given work to because it was in an area that I don't work in. When we see each other in areas we both compete in, we have some laughs and move on.
I was just wondering how you can tell if someone is cheating the system or not though. The price they charge may be an indicator but not necessarily so. When someone first starts, they are often not aware of the full costs of being self-employed and quote accordingly. That was so wiith me. I had very low outgoings in those days. I still find it hard to believe what I used to charge back in 1991/92. Those charges were not made through cheating the system. They were made out of ignorance.
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no such thing as "your patch" business is business
sorry to say - but the above is true >:( it's the customer's that decides who cleanes their windows . If you do a good job and they like you you have no worries I think .
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In Stirlingshire the council have a good system in place, all window cleaners
need to carry a licence. To obtain this you are checked to see if you have
no criminal record and also require insurance.
This works a treat as when you show this to new customers who think your
prices are too high I just show my ID and they then they change their mind.
I then explain that anyone who comes knocking at their door trying to
undercharge me they must request their ID. If the guy has no ID then
he must have some criminal recored ( maybe ).
Works a treat as I know there are cleaners on my patch that do not have
this, but my customers have often told me even though I am pricy they
prefer someone who they can trust. Too a point my name is passed around
which is good to know that my customers value me.
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Don't worry, most customers are loyal, and as someone else has said, the few that drop off probably ain't worth it, or will come back "to the fold", eventually.
How many times have you tried a new pub, club, shop or whatever, just because they have what appears to be a wonderful introductory offer, only to go back to the "devil you know"?
As a relative newbie, with only 5/6 months or so of service, I must say that I've found most customers are very loyal to their window cleaner.
And, may I say, reading some of the things on this forum, more loyal than some window cleaners are to them!
Don't worry about what might happen - sort it out when it does, if it does!
Baldeagle in Staffordshire
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In Stirlingshire the council have a good system in place, all window cleaners
need to carry a licence. To obtain this you are checked to see if you have
no criminal record and also require insurance.
This works a treat as when you show this to new customers who think your
prices are too high I just show my ID and they then they change their mind.
I then explain that anyone who comes knocking at their door trying to
undercharge me they must request their ID. If the guy has no ID then
he must have some criminal recored ( maybe ).
Works a treat as I know there are cleaners on my patch that do not have
this, but my customers have often told me even though I am pricy they
prefer someone who they can trust. Too a point my name is passed around
which is good to know that my customers value me.
Sounds great <sarcasm>. I would lose all the business I've built up over the years because of a couple of silly things I got caught for nearly 30 years ago as a teenager. Wow. Terrific.
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In Stirlingshire the council have a good system in place, all window cleaners
need to carry a licence. To obtain this you are checked to see if you have
no criminal record and also require insurance.
This works a treat as when you show this to new customers who think your
prices are too high I just show my ID and they then they change their mind.
I then explain that anyone who comes knocking at their door trying to
undercharge me they must request their ID. If the guy has no ID then
he must have some criminal recored ( maybe ).
Works a treat as I know there are cleaners on my patch that do not have
this, but my customers have often told me even though I am pricy they
prefer someone who they can trust. Too a point my name is passed around
which is good to know that my customers value me.
Sounds great <sarcasm>. I would lose all the business I've built up over the years because of a couple of silly things I got caught for nearly 30 years ago as a teenager. Wow. Terrific.
Shiner, I don't think that would be the case. Most convictions are 'spent' after five years and 'removed from file'. It comes under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act which is meant to protect people, like yourself, who may have gotten into trouble in the exhuberance of their youth.
How do you think I know a little about it. ;)
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hi forum: it gets even worse,lost 31 customers today only 3 weeks behind in w/c ,spoke to the guy whos taken my work.
How KEPT MY HANDS OF HIM I will never know 1-0 to the forum
you were all right who told me to smile and be polite.at least Im going home to my family tonight instead of them coming to visit me
This guy seems an allright guy,wfpoler,although he has used ladders, 4 lads working together. hes been wfp for quite a while
by the sound of it,and is trying to expand his round [carnt fault]
reconds he can make a living at 3.50p for 6/7 windows and 2 doors that less than 50p a window..I was making 60p a window when I decided to increase the price. 50p 3 year rise + 50p for materials, about 65p a window.
SOME OF THESE CUSTOMERS HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM DAY ONE
old people included [ who I did little extras for [no more Mr nice guy for me]
Then I found out he doesnt have to pay for his water gets it from a large drug company for a few squid for 1000 litres,so he has no further cost unlike myself [resin]
Hes been canvasing for a few days so havent been able to work out how much damage hes done.
When I told him he has done even more damage than the damage he had all ready done, because Ididnt know where he had canvassed,and that I would be doing windows were he had been so to his credit he gave me the nos he had picked up[just to rub salt into the wounds] I had done these two weeks ago with wfp,and after spending time explaining wfp to them [double whammy] so its price,not my work thats doing it for me[some of these owe me money so should be able to put the customers on a guilt trip] BOY GOING TO LOVE SEING THEIR FACES
[2 FACED] GAZA ;DING AGAIN WICKED THOUGHTS RUNNING TROUGH MY HEAD.
THERES MORE:had a full HS CHECK TODAY:
I was working at the back of a house,when a kitchen fitter decided to bring out his transformer and me not seeing what he was doing [cus he was behind me] plugged it in.just then his forman came around saw me working away.the guy had gone back inside to turn it on[apparently] so water was dripping on to the cable atleast.the forman went ape at me. I smiled at him, christ me smile twice in one day THE DAY IM HAVING MUST BE GOING SOFT FORUM 2 GAZA 0
The guy blamed me as well,he asked if I had a buiss card to which I gave him ,nowing this may go further I later got their buiss address as well of my customer.
Saw this guy later when working across the street and youve guessed it hs was with him. Must have passed my test cus they never asked me any questions [found out later by this jobs worth] they had been to their site office on an inspection.[PHEW]
KEEP YOU INFORMED ON THIS EPIC
quote to the h s e : if all the power went to the powerfull
and nothing was left to the poor
then surley
this world would be upside down for sure.
QUOTE GAZA JUNE 2005
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In Stirlingshire the council have a good system in place, all window cleaners
need to carry a licence. To obtain this you are checked to see if you have
no criminal record and also require insurance.
This works a treat as when you show this to new customers who think your
prices are too high I just show my ID and they then they change their mind.
I then explain that anyone who comes knocking at their door trying to
undercharge me they must request their ID. If the guy has no ID then
he must have some criminal recored ( maybe ).
Works a treat as I know there are cleaners on my patch that do not have
this, but my customers have often told me even though I am pricy they
prefer someone who they can trust. Too a point my name is passed around
which is good to know that my customers value me.
Sounds great <sarcasm>. I would lose all the business I've built up over the years because of a couple of silly things I got caught for nearly 30 years ago as a teenager. Wow. Terrific.
Shiner, I don't think that would be the case. Most convictions are 'spent' after five years and 'removed from file'. It comes under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act which is meant to protect people, like yourself, who may have gotten into trouble in the exhuberance of their youth.
How do you think I know a little about it. ;)
Sure thing. I would probably not be obliged to declare them under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. However, many jobs involving working with people are usually exempt from the Act. It depends which view was taken. It could be argued that I might be working inside peoples' homes and therefore the act would not apply.
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regarding peoples concerns about a police record.
You do not have to declare any convictions considered spent under the rehabilitation of offenders act unless you intend working in an environment where your past offence(s) are deemed to make you a risk to vulnerable people(care workers/doctors etc) or where there is access to drugs(doctors/vets/pharmacists etc) et or large amounts of other peoples cash...in these cases you would have to declare all offences whether spent or not. You do not have a choice. They will come up on your CRB certificate.
Also, certain offences are NEVER considered spent and anyone who has committed these offences would have them detailed on the copy of the CRB certificate sent to them and the copy sent to applying employer/authority.
All checks in England are carried out by the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and the employer/authority asking you to complete such a form has to make it clear to the applicant if they need to declare ALL offences and the reason why ie: nature of employment- or if they are allowed to not declare offences which are spent.
I was responsible in my last position for countersigning CRB applications for social workers - an occupation where no offence is considered spent and has to be declared- and quite a few applicants who had committed petty misdemeanours in their youth or substantial time past, were surprised to see that the offences were not listed on their CRB certificate.
The local police force of the area in which the crime was committed has responsibility for deciding if the offence is relevant to the post applied for, taking into account the relevance of the offence, the age of the person when offence was committed and if any repeat patterns of offending are obvious.
If there was a scenario introduced in the UK where window cleaners had to apply for a CRB (exactly the same as taxi drivers incidentally) then I could imagine a person with a recent conviction(s) for burglary, theft, violence would not be granted a licence until a certain period of conviction free rehabilitation time had taken place.
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I would say no because you are not being offered a job by NFMWGC and I don't think that they can do a records check.
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Hi Gaza
I was working at the back of a house,when a kitchen fitter decided to bring out his transformer and me not seeing what he was doing [cus he was behind me] plugged it in.just then his forman came around saw me working away.the guy had gone back inside to turn it on[apparently] so water was dripping on to the cable atleast
Pure water does not conduct electricity and the reason for the transformer is so that the voltage is 110 volts which is a lot lot safer than 240 anyway. On top of that, those 110V transformers are made to a specification that takes into account splashes of water and the worker should have been trained to look out for potential hazards.
As for blame and all that stuff, I'd have told the foreman to go and do something unpleasant to himself. Nothing will come of it. What's he or his company likely to do? Cause an enquiry to be set up just for that incident when no injury or otherwise has happened? All that will happen is it will get logged in a safety report somewhere to be used as a statistic. Providing of course, that the foreman reports to the proper authorities and then his part and his workers part in it will also get looked into.
Also, with regards the bloke taking your customers, do you only have this blokes word that you've lost 31 customers or have you been and called on them yourself? Is it possible that the list he showed you was simply to a way for him to find out who your customers were under the pretext of being considerate?
It all sounds a bit unlikely as most customers tend to be loyal to their existing window cleaner.
Cheers
Ross
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Ross just been around some of them and yes hes taken them,he gave me a list of his new customers and sure enough 31 were mine and some I didnt do anyway[and some Ihad got rid off because bad payers, got maybe 4/5 back.
Found out he told one customer at least THE OLD MAN HAS PACKED UP [OLD MAN AT 50] STILL CAN DO WHAT HE CAN DO IN ALL DEPARTMENTS IF NOT BETTER IN SOME DEPARTMENTS
WOULDNT LIKE TO TIMESHARE HIS MRS WITH ME ;D
I used to work on building sites years ago so totally agree with what you saying about transformer,but the foreman was quite obnoxious,so to pacifie him and nothing to hide I gave him my card. AFTER MY VISIT BY H/S POLICE Ive been assured that Im complying [phew] unless get a letter in the post in the morning.
GAZA
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So if a conviction is spent under the rehabilitation act, does it HAVE to be declared to the NFMWGC on application to join?
Graham,
Why are you going on about the NFMWGC? As far as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you could be a murdering-burglaring bigamist; but when you sign on your NFMWGC application form to say your have no convictions; it's just a matter of 'self-certifying' your 'clean record'.
For a CRB check you have to sign a form agreeing for the check to be carried out.
Anyway, well done to Steve K for clarifying the process. I only know about the 'spent period' because I spent 21 days in detention for going AWOL from the army to join the French Foriegn Legion; fuelled by alcohol, youth and high spirits!
I also attempted to join the RUC a few years back and had to declare any time spent in civil or military custody; even though I was 19 years old when I went AWOL.
If I had to get a 'licence' to clean windows, there's no way stuff like this would hold you back.
Anyway, where were we? What thread is this? Where's my nurse?
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I would tell them about embezzlement though ;D.
Gerry.
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As far as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you could be a murdering-burglaring bigamist;
dont think the NFMW&GC understand words like that
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Hi Graham G
Something got at you then................. oooooh...... touchy......
You have a secret or two I bet and yes, you are going on about it and I may as well join in.
Anyway, I have convictions from when I was a teenager, some minor but one or two a bit serious, (nothing nasty but good old trying to get something for free) and I was a train driver on the railways where the then system, under BR, was so thorough and those things from my murky past didn't matter.
I think the convictions things when young make no difference unless you are still young.
What is NFMW&GC anyway?
Cheers
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Hi Graham G
Something got at you then................. oooooh...... touchy......
You have a secret or two I bet and yes, you are going on about it and I may as well join in.
Anyway, I have convictions from when I was a teenager, some minor but one or two a bit serious, (nothing nasty but good old trying to get something for free) and I was a train driver on the railways where the then system, under BR, was so thorough and those things from my murky past didn't matter.
I think the convictions things when young make no difference unless you are still young.
Cheers
Hopefully you are right about it not mattering any more. I don't suppose a bit of personal wacky baccy in 1972 or an "obstructing the old bill" rap in 1974 would count too much against a guy who's pushing 50 now (me). It would still be enough to force me into applying for a visa if I ever decide to visit the USA though so I think I will just visit other parts of the world instead.
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mate play it cool for a little while , see how things go . i had simalar happen to me on my round and this company said they were cheaper did a wholesales speel and i was away on holiday in south africa for 3 weeks when i got back i had lost about 40 customers since then they have all come back now i charge them £5 more per clean than the other customers ,
shawn ;D ;D
hang in there they aint worth it if they are that quick to drop you ..
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Wow, sorry if I have reminded people of their past. Past is past , we have
all been lads in the past. Does any other council request that window
cleaners require a licence to operate. I think this is handy as it stops the
guy on the dole pinching your round just for a couple of months work.
In the council next to me there window cleaners undercutting each other
who are legit. Problem is they are giving window cleaners a bad name.
Gaza don't worry they will come running back, so bump up the prices to see
how loyal they are.
Shawn which part of SA, got any bultong!!!
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Thanks SHAWN: a local window cleaner came up with a wicked idea,to go around with a super soaker at night,I politly told him no thanks but loved his sentiment.
GAZA
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HI GAZZA
60 ODD REPLIES CANT BE WRONG. THE W-C IN QUESTION THATS BEEN TAKING YOUR CUSTOMERS HE MUST STILL BE LIVING IN THE EARLY 90'S TO BE CHARGING 3.50 PER HOUSE. SOMETHING SMELLS FISHY ABOUT THIS GEEZER I DONT THINK ANYONE ON THIS FORUM WOULD BE CHARGING 3.50 PER HOUSE STICK TO YOUR PRICES YOUR WORTH MORE THAN 3.50 ...... 3.75 AT LEAST MATE (JOKING) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. I WOULD SOONER MOVE ON TO DIFFERENT WORK WHERE THE CUSTOMERS APPRECIATE THEIR W-C. AT THE END OF THE DAY ITS EASIER FOR YOU TO REPLACE THEM AT THIS STAGE THEY DONT KNOW WHO THEYVE TAKEN ON I THINK SOMEONES ALREADY MENTIONED ITS BETTER THE DEVIL YOU KNOW BRETT
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windows Chepstow,
I was in the Army(3Para) 1984-1988 and spent 28 days in guardroom detention-NOT Military jail- and I can assure you, this does not and never has come up on my CRB and I have had to apply several times for a certificate. The screening I had to go through to become a signatory for the CRB was intense and it still never showed up.
Graham G, if you are not being asked to and provided with a CRB application form, you should not be disclosing any offences to any body/authority.
The fed are wrong here I can assure you. If they wish to know about convictions of applicants, they have to be a registered body with the CRB and have you fill in appropriate forms.
They also have to abide with the Data Protection Act and I would ask where this information is going to and where it is held.
The CRB operates very strict guidelines which are issued to registered bodies determining the steps to be taken when an applicant has convictions and how to arrive at a decision as to whether the conviction merits a rejection of employment or membership. An ex.offender can not be discriminated against because of offences merely because he has an offence on his CRB certificate. A lot of variable have to be considered before such a decision is made.
Windows Chepstow...nearly did the same at one point...a couple of us were on the way to 2REP ( french foreign Legion Parachute Regiment)
I would probably still be there had I gone but decided to stay in Aldershot and had a great time for 4 and a half years.
Cheers
Steve
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IAN: MY NEW TOPIC HAS VANISHED, DISSAP , VAMOUS ,
GON ,BITS EEP ISAP EARIN INCE STOPPED PMS
G ZA
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Gaza,
Which 'new topic' ???
Sometimes it can be easier to do a search, or go to your profile and view your last posts.
I've found 'topics' of my own that seemed to have got lost that way.
I've not deleted any of your posts dude.....windows_chepstow always beats me to it ;D
Regards,
Ian
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I was in the Army(3Para) 1984-1988 and spent 28 days in guardroom detention-NOT Military jail
Steve
Steve,
On a hair-splitting excercise; there's no such thing as 'military jail'. Even MCTC Collchester stands for 'Military Corrective Training Centre'; not jail. If you do something really naughty, you move directly to civil jail; do not pass go.
Anyway, are you sure you were a Para? You can type and spell and stuff!
Gazza,
I've not deleted any of your threads recently, Mate!
Are you clicking the correct icons for posting new threads?
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windupers chepstow and IAN: Might be my mistake in the end,not thinking strait at the mo.
Heads spinning never thought get caught with my pants down,
My main problem is no trolley system,all strait from the van with hoses,sometimes Ive over 50 meters of hose out around hedges etc.
GETTING IT SORTED SHORTLY
GAZA
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Gazza
Kept your eyes peeled.
I am building a complete trolley system which should be able to carry enough water for 10 house cleans will go over most terrains and down most alleyways it will also have enough hose to reach any house that is 330 feet away from you, for them hard to reach areas.
It will be on ebay shortly
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William THANKS FOR THE TIP,WILL LOOK AT IT,when youve built it , but only a week or two from finishing mine.My pockets empty at mo but plans are ahead.
William thought a trolley was suppose to cut down on hose use,only plan to have 5/10 metres of hose.
GAZA
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Chepstow
I used the term Jail for non military readers...but also to distinguish between guardroom detention which both you and I served and time in Colchester which is deemed imprisonment and is recorded as such on a CRB certificate.
Colchester is a jail to all intents and legal purposes, but is primarily used to accommodate military offenders who have a chance of returning to their units.
Like most of my 3 Para colleagues, I went to school...!!?? ;D
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Gazza
I've got 4 systems
1 A van one where I just pull up open side door out with hose and off I go.
2 A backpack which is ok for them hard to reach areas or you have to go though houses.
3 A trolley system which is ok but you are limit on how many houses you can clean before you run out of water and if you do terraced houses, going down back alley can be sometimes impossible, this is where a 100m hose reel attached to the trolley will come in very useful.
4 A garden trolley which carrys 8 x 25 litres barrels and the trolley, comes in useful when you have a lot of cleans on one road.
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Gazza
Have you thought about pricing this guy off your round.
If it was me I would tell this window cleaner that because he is undercutting you and telling some of your customers porky pies that you will now be charging your customers £1.00 per house per clean.
Before you think I've gone completly round the bend listen to these reasons why I think it would work.
1 He works with 2 other people so they are going to have to clean 3 houses to every one you clean just to make the same amount of money that you do.
2 If he is a legal window cleaner and he employs these people then he has to pay them the minimum wage plus national insurance contubutions which would work out at £6.00 per hour per man so at £1.00 per house he is going to have to clean 12 houses per hour to break even without making a penny for himself ;D
3 If he is not legal and you tell him you intend to inform the local DSS and Tax office to check him out. He will leave your area very quickly. I would also do this because if he is illegal its your business going down the drain.
4 If he is legal then it comes down to who can last the longer, but you have the advantage.
Ideally you should also be working in other areas of town where this problem does not exist and you can earn a decent amount of money.
I have done this in the past and its worked for me.
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William your spot on :my plan of action is to write a formal letter to all my customers ,its 5 squid from now on 4.50 to pensioners still make about17 20 squid an hr more when done round first clean,only used pole on my commercial work before because of length of gardens.
They must ring my mobile, if they want me to do their windows at this price, if they dont ring its bye bye see you in the winter were the price is 6 squid. up front each month.
WILLIAM IVE THANKED THE ONES WHO SAID NO TO MOVING OVER ,BY OFFERING THEM SOME OF MY OTHER BUISS ADD ONS, LIKE PATIO CLEANS AND GUTTER CLEANING,AT A LOT LOWER PRICE THAN I DO CHARGE NORMALLY.
Going down the route you said you did have a canvasser [think it was you anyway] know the right person a loverly women on my round whose a kiss o gram [never kissed me though] should be interesting.
THOUGHT OF THE DAY :If I dont change direction soon
Ill end up were Im going.
gaza
William souds as though youve a proper Mrs set up
.
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I'm always looking to make my job faster and more profitable thats why I am making a new type of trolley thats not on the market at present., that will do ever kind of clean possible in the fastest and safest way.
Because at the end of the day time = MONEY and if I can do more houses per day then I'm going to be a rich S.O.B.
Anyway the new trolley will be on ebay soon price will including free delivery England only. I will also set it up and spend the day showing how it works and how to clean windows. Including any tips that I have come across which makes it more user friendly.
Text changed by moderator, sorry William, you aren't allowed to put prices on here :-\
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There is no such thing as "my round". At the end of the day it is natural for people to seek the lowest price, however if you provide an excellent service then you have nothing to fear because in our experience customers will tend to remain with the same window cleaner even if their prices are more expensive as long as they provide an excellent service.
Regards
R & A Home Services
Residential / Commercial Window & General Cleaners
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Why is there no such thing as my round? Of course there is, your work is your round, you may lose some of it and may add to it but it is still a round and if you do it then it's your round and if it is not your round, then who's round is it?
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MIKE G : So your car is your car even though you worked hard to achieve it,your mrs isnt your mrs cus you work hard to to keep her and the family
What would you say if someone came and sneakly took them away. deprived you of the enjoyment OF THE SAID
I know it is a bit of a weird way of looking at it but what Ive worked hard to achieve I believe Ive every right to call it my round .
Look at this way how many times have you told people my job is blah blah,point being its not your job if you dont own a job,so in reality your unemployed. ;D THIS ALL SWINGS ON THE WORD MY.
GAZA
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Gaza I am on your side mate, I think the guy is bang out of order he should only target houses that have no present window cleaner and if someone approaches him and says there are not happy with their present window cleaner then I guess that fair enough. There is enough work out there without stepping on anyones toes. My previous post was directed at the guy who thinks there is no such thing as "MY ROUND"
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Mike reading it again SORRY GOT THE WRONG BLOKE SCROLLING BACK SOZ SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED TO RAH,WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER IF PMS WERE STILL ON ;D
SOZ AGAIN MIKE
GAZA
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Gaza,
I'm on your side too. If he's actively targetting your customers by offering them window cleaning at lower prices; he's a mug.
Not only that, he's damaging your business by being one.
Personally, I wouldn't get involved in a price war. Don't lower your prices either, mate. Come up with another stategy.
What's the damage so far?
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Gaza, you really need to get a grip of yourself and stop moaning about this chap who has taken some of your customers, really, if you were any good in the first place would these customers have gone elsewhere? NO a doubt it.
And as for w/c using ladders, the new HSE law states that as long as you are working safely at a safe hight, (in basic terms for you gaza) there is no problem, also how am i able to get insurance for working up a ladder if it is banned.
At the end of the day gaza, just smile and remember that the longer you use your wfp without a trolly the more customers you will lose.
Happy cleaning buddy :-*
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THREE MONTHS - just starting work base increasing, i aint had any crossed word with any other window cleaner............ this is the most discouraging thread i have read on this forum.
DENNIS----- I dont undervut anyone yet pick work up from established companies, whom there customers think they had gone sloppy. i am insured and using ladders. am i a COWBOY ?
DENNIS
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PAUL P: Have an accident were h/s are involved and you havent got stabilizer system in place,see the insurance you have, aint worth the paper its written on .
see h/s schedule 6 working from temp platforms
see pro window cleaners second issue brilliant write up.
go throw ur dummy at someone else.
Complaints: none for 8 months ;D bird crapped on it after cleaned.
SPENT 4,500 ON SYSTEM MAYBE NO COMPARISON. TO A 55 QUID PAIR OF LADDERS FROM BQ THOUGH. + LONG WHEELED TRANNY VAN TO PUT IT ALL IN, SEE IM SERIOUS ABOUT MY BUISS,
iWOULD HAVE GONE WITH DIY SYSTEM BUT 3 YRS AGO NONE OF THIS WAS ABOUT, WE WERE THE PIONEERS,
GAZA
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graham : met a guy who looked like you,spoke like you, didnt like him either ;D
gaza
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Keep the replies sensible guys, if it descends to pettiness you know what will happen.
If the best you can do is trade insults, your posts will be deleted.
Ian
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IAN; HUMOUR IS A SENCE OF ENDEARMENT,EVERYONE LAUGHED WHEN MY MRS MARRIED ME ::)
GAZA
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Ian
You are right we don't want this topic desending into a slanging match.
But it would be nice if we could lay down a code of conduct on the way a Professional Window Cleaner Should Behave.
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Sorry, but is this the longest topic ever or what? ???
Someone start something new!!!!
Roger.
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ok how about a new topic on 'what else Gaza could do for a living'
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ok how about a new topic on 'what else Gaza could do for a living'
How about a typist? ;)
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ok how about a new topic on 'what else Gaza could do for a living'
How about a typist? ;)
I think he would make a great typist and actually might have to take it up, if this other w/c who is showing initiative and who is obviously better than him takes more of his customers.
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PAULP;yOU ARE SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH,,I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A CHAT WITH YOU ON PMS BUT THERE NOT HERE ANYMORE,WHERE DO YOU LIVE IF NOT FAR FROM NOTTM MAYBE POP OVER TO SEE YOU TO SHOW YOU HOW WRONG YOU ARE.
Someone of this forum came to my house today,took him to see my wfp system,let him ave a go,and hes seen the results that I achieved on windows that was cleaned by a trad w/c.
GAZA
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YES GAZZA THANKS FOR YESTERDAY A VERY GOOD DEMO ON HOW YOUR SYSTEM WORKS . YOU GOT SOME MONEYS WORTH OF EQUIPMENT THERE . RICHEST MAN IN NOTTM . I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM BEFORE WHERE PEOPLE DOUBT OTHERS BUT THEN ARE PROVED WRONG. LETS ALL HELP EACH OTHER ON THIS FORUM INSTEAD OF CRITISING .
GAZZA YOUR A 1ST ABC WFP YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
THANKS
BRETT.
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GAZZA
YESTERDAY YOU'VE PROVED YOU KNOW YOUR STUFF ABOUT WFP BUT ITS BEEN PRETTY QUIET WITHOUT YOU ON THE FORUM TODAY HAVE YOU BEEN TO CHURCH MATE ( PUB)
COULD YOU GIVE US ANY IDEA WHEN YOUR RELEASING -WINDOW CLEANER ON MY ROUND - THE SEQUAL
REGARDS
BRETT
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Yup
Gaza rocks also.
To think he was high up in the world of being a professional footballer.
Now he's a WFP'r.
Cheers
ps I never did believe those newspaper stories about you being violent ;D
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IM NOWallergic to violence,as I tend to come out in cuts and bruises
GAZA
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I can see that more of us could be in Gazza's shoes before long.
The WFP may be the latest and greatest bit of kit, the problem is anyone can learn to use it. Now the one big advantage we had as traditonal wc's was, we were not afraid of ladders. Most middle age guys are not happy on a ladder.
Now any guy or girl whoes knees would knock standing on a chair can learn WFP. I single out middle age guys for this reason. They can take early retirement
With say a 10 grand pension, they me maybe looking for a little job to top up this pension. Mortgage allready paid off, just need a few quid extra for holidays etc. Well window cleaning is a good option, no need to confine themselves to grass cutting and a bit of gardening. Buy a WFP system out of their lump sum and away they go. Pick the right jobs, no ladders to climb.
I can see this happening. If he earns £8 per hour he is well happy.
I dread a customer telling me they don't want their windows done anymore because their old mate from down the road is going to do them. "Just lost his job you know, needs the money". Dai
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It is, as we all know, just not that simple to build a round which justifies the expense such a person would have to make.
He would have to go round on the marketing merry go round to find those areas where a customer base existed who either had no window cleaner or no loyalty to their existing cleaner.
You have to have a high level of commitment and spending courage as well as a thoroughly researched plan of income levels to invest in a WFP system and then market it to the extent that you have a round of satisfied customers and an income.
Have faith in your marketing methods, working techniques and professional practices/image and your business should at the very least remain bouyant if someone else in your area decides that window cleaning is easy and they can do it much cheaper than you...they will not last...guaranteed!!
Also keep in regular contact with this forum for regular injections of enthusiasm when your head is a little bit down. ;D ;)
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DAI : EXACTLY THE SAMES JUST HAPPENNED TO ME.
So all you critics watch your back [hes coming to a place near you soon] and for you micky mousers who thought you knew it all if you can match me for equipment lets have a show off.
FIRST OF ALL MY WEBSITE ADDRESS IS WORTH AS MUCH AS YOUR HOUSE, ARE YOU READY FOR THIS
1ST-ABC.CO.UK
ITS BEEN RE WRITTEN AT THE MO BUT THATS MY DOMAIN LOCK STOCK AND BARREL,SO WERE EVER YOU ARE ill be on top of you ;D stupid I ANT
THANKS BRETT FOR PUTTING SOME OF THESE DONALD MOUSERS RIGHT ON HERE.it was a pleasure to meet you and show you how things work,do it again sometime,anyone who wants educating on wfp I would be available to show you if you were prepared to come to NOTTM AND BUY ME A FEW BEERS AFTER.
To all of you who have given me insperation during a difficult time may you prosper with your bizz,and to all others.
:P
GAZA
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Gaza
who or what are you referring to when you say "mickey Mousers" - "Donald Mousers"...??? ???
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Steve:just a few on here who have placed negative responces,ABOUT BEING UNDER EQUIPED,and I dont think that includes yourself Steve in that list.
FOR A START IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN PRODUCE PURE WATER AS THEY DRIVE AROUND IN THEIR VAN
I CARRY 1000 LITRES OF TAP WATER AND PRODUCE IT INTO A 250 LITRE TANK AT THE PUSH OF A BUTTON WHILE IM DRIVTNG ;D
GAZA
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Gazz
I drink a lot and seem to produce a fair amount of water ;D ;D ;D
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WILLIAM: PMSL :D
gaza
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Steve:just a few on here who have placed negative responces,ABOUT BEING UNDER EQUIPED,and I dont think that includes yourself Steve in that list.
FOR A START IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN PRODUCE PURE WATER AS THEY DRIVE AROUND IN THEIR VAN
I CARRY 1000 LITRES OF TAP WATER AND PRODUCE IT INTO A 250 LITRE TANK AT THE PUSH OF A BUTTON WHILE IM DRIVTNG ;D
GAZA
Yeah. Wouldn't that be nice. Would save a load of hassle.
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SHINER: ALL YOU NEED IS TWO TANKS.1 x 1000 litres tank 1 x250 litre tank
Fill the largest tank 1000 litres with tap water put a hose on it to feed at gravity level,place an inline whale pump,run a hose to your di vessel and run it into your storage tank,the next di vessel will polish it before sending up the pole[ or better still use a submersed pump,but then you carnt draw water of when you need it to make a cuppa char[ see even got a kettle in my van]
gaza
ps short of nothing Ive got
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SHINER: ALL YOU NEED IS TWO TANKS.1 x 1000 litres tank 1 x250 litre tank
Fill the largest tank 1000 litres with tap water put a hose on it to feed at gravity level,place an inline whale pump,run a hose to your di vessel and run it into your storage tank,the next di vessel will polish it before sending up the pole[ or better still use a submersed pump,but then you carnt draw water of when you need it to make a cuppa char[ see even got a kettle in my van]
gaza
ps short of nothing Ive got
Gaza. I've been looking at a water map. Are you in a hard water area or a semi-hard? It looks like you are borderline if you are around Nottingham. If it's possible to do that in a hard water area, it may be worthwhile me looking at something similar.
Paul
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The Shiner
If you are in a hard water area and you have not got a RO unit then you can run the tap water though several Di tanks and the resin will last longer and therefore becomes economical, I would recommend 3 DI tanks for very hard areas.
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The Shiner
If you are in a hard water area and you have not got a RO unit then you can run the tap water though several Di tanks and the resin will last longer and therefore becomes economical, I would recommend 3 DI tanks for very hard areas.
I don't even have a WFP system yet ;D but I am looking at the feasability of it, what's available, and how I can adapt things around my living circumstances.
What Gaza wrote has interested me for several reasons.
I live in an upstairs flat so installing a holding tank indoors would be impractical due to concerns about leakage into the flat below and the difficulties transferring purified water from tank to van (my flat is a long way from the road).
The difficulties with having an RO van mount would be that the filling up would have to take place quite slowly overnight. The difficulties with this are the lack of access to a tap (particularly for a long period) and also the drainage issues. This would also deprive me of the use of my vehicle if needed.
However, having a van mounted holding tank that could be fast filled with the filtering taking place into a second, smaller van mounted could solve my problems. I could fast fill from a borrowed tap then the filtering could take place overnight within the van. I guess that the smaller tank could have an RO unit as that would not need to fill so quickly. A 250 litre tank could probably supply my daily needs if it is purifying water "on the fly" and if there is a fair bit of pure water in it at the start of the day.
Gaza says he has a 1,000 litre + 250 litre system. I imagine that 750 litre + 250 litre would be enough for me. It would require a hefty payload though and a van upgrade (I only have an Escort 55 currently). I suppose the payload situation could be assisted if you ensure that the larger tank isn't filled unless the pure water tank is empty.
I'm not sure about your suggestion of 3 DI tanks. For the reasons stated above, the holding tank and the pure water tank would all need to be on board. I have considered the possibility of a 375 litre trailer system but I would need to figure out a secure place to leave it overnight while doing the slow fill.
All I know about these issues is what I;ve read on here in the past few weeks. It may be that I've got totally the wrong end of the stick but I would be interested in looking further.
It's unlikely I will be financially able to lay out (borrow) the money to set this up until next Spring but no harm in discussing my options well ahead of time.
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The Shiner
You would not need any of the equipment that you mentioned, I also live in a flat and what I do is run a hose from my kitchen tap to my DI bottle which is located in my van I can then get as much pure water as I need, because I live in a soft water area with tds reading of 70 I only need 1 DI bottle, but I will be getting another one soon to run in tamden and so making my resin last longer.
Because you live in a hard water area, if you had 3 DI bottles and set them uo so the tap water goes into the first bottle it then transfers it to the second bottle which then does the same to the third bottles, from this bottle you fill up your water containers and off to work you go.
You can also fill up this way while you are at you customers houses, most will agree unless they are on water meters.
If you set up you water needs this way you would not need to upgrade you van.
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The Shiner
You would not need any of the equipment that you mentioned, I also live in a flat and what I do is run a hose from my kitchen tap to my DI bottle which is located in my van I can then get as much pure water as I need, because I live in a soft water area with tds reading of 70 I only need 1 DI bottle, but I will be getting another one soon to run in tamden and so making my resin last longer.
Because you live in a hard water area, if you had 3 DI bottles and set them uo so the tap water goes into the first bottle it then transfers it to the second bottle which then does the same to the third bottles, from this bottle you fill up your water containers and off to work you go.
You can also fill up this way while you are at you customers houses, most will agree unless they are on water meters.
If you set up you water needs this way you would not need to upgrade you van.
Thanks for the tip. However, my flat is a long way from the road and my neighbours are the sort of people who would probably grass me up for using the flat for commercial purposes. There are disabled people around here who are wheelchair users. They would complain if a hose ran across the footpath for even a short period of time. If I was unable to work they would complain about me being a "sponger" too. There is a seriously bad attitude in this area with plenty of people who know their rights, want to know everyone elses business, yet know little about personal responsibilities. I can't afford to move though.
I'm taking the view that if I need to change the way I work, then I would want to be quoting for jobs that are currently beyond me.
It is a tough call for me to make and knowing that 3 lots of DI filtering is sufficient could well prove to be useful to me one day - even if a direct line from home to van is not practical.
Tell me William. Is fast filling possible when only DI filtering is required then? Having a fast fill is important to me I think.
Paul
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A dI method is the most cheapest and fastest method to get pure water, I think that the best ro unit on the market takes longer, I also think that a ro unit needs 240v for it to work.
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A dI method is the most cheapest and fastest method to get pure water, I think that the best ro unit on the market takes longer, I also think that a ro unit needs 240v for it to work.
Yes I do understand that an RO unit is a slower fill. Needing a 240V electricity supply is a new one on me though. That could mess things up. It could be quite a hassle sorting out water supply and drainage (if required) but needing electricity too could be a bit awkward.
All I want to do is earn a decent living without too much hassle and have a bit of relative freedom at the same time.
Paul
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Shiner,
Have you considered renting, [or buying], a lock-up garage that has a water supply?
One with an electricity supply would be nice, but that might be asking for too much.
Baldeagle, in a very wet Staffordshire
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Shiner,
Have you considered renting, [or buying], a lock-up garage that has a water supply?
One with an electricity supply would be nice, but that might be asking for too much.
Baldeagle, in a very wet Staffordshire
Yes I have considered it. I do already rent one that does not have a supply. However, garages with a supply are hard to come by around here. Needing drainage would be an issue too. Also, getting to and from such a garage could be awkward as my van would be tied up to a water supply if using RO filtering. I seem to be going around in circles with this. I will find a way around it though. I won't be leaping into WFP cleaning until next spring so I've plenty of time to figure something out.
Paul
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WILLIAM:DI IS THE CHEPO METHOD ONLY IF YOU LIVE IN A SOFT WATER AREA. it seems expensive to me with a tds reading of 264+ =
SHINER
YOU NEED TO TEST YOUR WATER FOR HARDNESS 1ST BEFORE YOU MAKE A DECISION DI OR RO.
Your local water board will tell you if you live in a hard water or soft water area . Or send a test sample of your water Andrews Water WHO WILL TEST IT FREE OF CHARGE and give you a report
GAZA
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Gaza, iam in Eastwood just outside Notts, i would love to see your wfp and also you could make me laugh by HAVING A WORD WITH ME,
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Shiner - I am in exact position and with hight TDS - the only answer I could get was to site the tank at a relatives - nearest is 20 miles - but at least it will get me started - ultimately it's a case of finding more suitable premises - good luck
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i run two reels from a 700ltr tank every day and i use 3 x 25ltr resin cylinders every three weeks. i bought a merlin which fills my tank from empty within 5 hours.even now my water bill has gone up by 200 pounds per 6 months my resin costs have gone down by 2,598 per 6 months so i am saving a lot of money by doing it with merlin. also you dont need a garage or electric to run a merlin ro and worth the investment.
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OK... This thread is nearly an official chat room. Gotta start a new thread or something, eh.
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Yeah, that must be it.
Gaza,
What is the status on your new buddy?
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Hi Graham
I think your'e missing the point.
What point was that?
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MARC: PLAN C: KEEP IT CLOSE TO MY CHEST,COULD BE LISTENING IN ,LET YOU KNOW WHEN ITS DONE.
iTS NOT OVER TILL TILL ITS OVER,
I also think Ive sussed someone else whos been on my patch on here If you do painting etc you know who you are,why not say HI? Nice shinny ladders you had,nice to see youve got them dirty at last[GOOD LUCK PAL FOR YOUR NEW FUTURE IN W/C]
Paul from Eastwood WELCOME ABOARD YOU WANT A MEETING dont know if your w/f/p or ladders? thatS 4 from NOTTS ON HERE but ONE wont own up to it will you ROY
Paul if your not wfp and would like to have a look at what it involves Iwill give you a chance as Eastwood isnt a stones throw from here YOUR PLACE OR MINE. have a word better still a beer.
how about the Wellington?
gaza
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EASY:Im afraid SHINER will need elec,how is SHINER to pump water from his storage tank from his flat to his van ?
SHINER stated he was quite a distance from the road dont think a 100 psi punp will pump that far,but dont know the distance.UNLESS HE INVESTED IN A TRANSFER PUMP.
ANYWAY SHINER will still need electric to charge his batteries up ;D
SHINER if you went ro way , I would check your beams out, might get your water down to the bottom floor quicker than you think ;D
GAZA
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I'm gonna have to put the moderator hat on fella's, nothing wrong with the thread as such...except it is now on a totally different subject :o Time to lock it unless it gets back to the original line of the thread.
Regards,
Ian
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Gaza.
I'm from Notts--i've got shiney new ladders--i've never been involved with painting, but i am a new window cleaner, as for working on your patch-- i'm not sure where my patch is yet,(if you mean me) i don't know who this Roy is my names Ray.
If you think it might be me taking your work lets have a meet & hopefully sort it out nice & friendly.
Regards Ray.
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ROY,I THINK WE MAY HAVE ALREADY MET, HAVE YOU JUST BOUGHT A VAN?
just trying to wind u up abit, TO GET YOU TO SHOW YOUR SELF ON HERE COULD NEVER FIND YOU ON HERE BUT KNEW YOU WERE FROM NOTTM AREA [SCARRY IN IT] no its not u on my patch but think your name is familier do you do some work in toton or sawley area?
ROY GIVE ME A RING ON 078859916999
gaza
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Hi Gaza.
The number you gave me has not been recognised.
I think you trying to wind me up (& it's working) why do you keep calling me Roy.
Ray.
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RAY: SORRY FOR WINDING YOU UP [NOT INTENDED I CAN ASSURE YOU}that is my no,just put it on charge though give me a ring or put your mob no on here give you a ring .
gaza
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RAY: SEE YOU TOMMORROW AS I SAID WORKING ON YOUR STREET[CANNY AINT IT]MENTION SOMEWHERE 5 MILES AWAY AND YOU LIVE ON IT,
LOOK FORWARD TO SORTING YOU OUT[with some work]
AT LEAST YOULL HAVE MORE PENNIES GOING THROUGH YOU BEER ACCOUNT.
gaza
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ROY,I THINK WE MAY HAVE ALREADY MET, HAVE YOU JUST BOUGHT A VAN?
just trying to wind u up abit, TO GET YOU TO SHOW YOUR SELF ON HERE COULD NEVER FIND YOU ON HERE BUT KNEW YOU WERE FROM NOTTM AREA [SCARRY IN IT] no its not u on my patch but think your name is familier do you do some work in toton or sawley area?
ROY GIVE ME A RING ON 078859916999
gaza
Gaza.
Is it OK if I phone you sometime please? It sounds like the type of van mounting system you have (or similar) may be the way for me to go when I start WFP next Spring. You have responded on here but I think some of the other responses have clouded the issue about what I'm trying to ask.
Apologies to the mods for the thread drifting like this but it can be awkward without a personal message system and it is important to me to start off with the equipment that's right for me and my circumstances.
Paul
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SHINER////; GIVE ME A RING BY ALMEANS: MY NO IS [07859916999]
GAZA
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IM back with plan C ;D
8) HIT MAN :o
gaza
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What goes around comes around.
Guaranteed. Remain of good character and honesty and do not sell yourself short.
And enjoy your work! I promise you that you will be fine. I used to get ticked off also when someone wants to work for peanuts. Sooner or later it all comes back to you.
Never sink low to do what is not right.
Hugs, :-*
Texas Girl
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IM back with plan C ;D
8) HIT MAN :o
gaza
Gaza. I once lost a few (a very few) customers to a guy who was undercutting me. I got his number from a customer and phoned him up. He sounded very wary at first over the phone. Anyway, the following transpired: I offered to give him, free of charge, a bit of work that I no longer wanted (awkward access etc). Once he realised I wasn't about to chew his nuts off, he told me about a supplier of window cleaning equipment that saved me quite a bit of money. We did eventually meet while out working. It turned out he was a fireman who was window cleaning part-time. Turned out he was a really nice guy.
I think that the worst thing this other guy has done to you was the bit when he told your customers that you had quit. That was seriously wrong of him.
I hope to ring you later on today if that's OK. I've left it until Saturday because I can phone mobiles fairly cheaply at the weekend (3p a minute). It's pretty expensive during the week.
Best of luck,
Paul
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SHINER PAUL: ENJOYED THE CHAT PAL,NICE TO BE OF SERVICE. ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED TO KNOW DONT HESITATE TO PHONE ME UP.
it seems a mire with ro/di systems[dont loose sleep over it]
phone these big companies up and get a free demo,as coming from south to Nottingham your more than welcome to have a day with me [cheap labour] ;D
TALK again shortly I hope you problem with getting water has been put to rest now with using two tanks [limited disturbance ]
you know what I mean. even cleaning warehouse liked the idea[told them its copyrighted to me] wouldnt be suprised if I dont see this system being made comercial shortly.
IF only it was copyrighted to me like winning the lottery .
looking at cheap copyrighting at the moment. so dont mention it to anyone please Paul
GAZA
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BACKwith this old nutmeg: COUNTING LOSS OF NEARLY 800 SQUID FROM WORK POACHED BY THIS LYING CHEATING SWINDLING WINDOW CLEANER, GETTING FUNNY PHONE CALLS ,HE TELLS CUSTOMERS uses w/f/p/ .No he doesnt , just a pair of ladders propped against the wall,told my ex customers that you can work like this. AND THAT iM JUST TRYING TO RIP THEM OFF.
MYSELF MAYBE SPENT NOW 6/7 THOUSAND POUND TO CONFORM FULLY WITH H/S NEW REGS van wfps +building a trolley system, for this upstart to come and undercut me by 1.50p ,by the way before any of you say my work is substandard thats why Ive lost them,think again pal.
JUST PHONED HSE AND ASKED THEM TO READ OUT THE NEW REGS.
THIS BEING DONE,HES BREAKING EVERY CODE OF CONDUCT.
also A YOUNG LAD WORKING FOR HIM.HES GOT TO PAY HIM+STAMP +EMPLOYEES INSURANCE +PUBLIC LIABILITY AT3.50 for 7/8 windows and two doors,hes got to be fiddling somewhere?
MY QUESTION IS DO I GRASS HIM TO SOCIAL AND H/S OR WOULD THIS LOWER MY STANDARD.AS THERE IS ANOTHER WAY OF DEALING WITH IT AND IT WONT PREETY.[BUT TO YOU PACIFICISTS ON HERE PUT YOURSELF IN MY PLACE WHAT WOULD YOU DO.
GAZA
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Gaza... from one PROFESSIONAL business man to another: If anyone uses such underhanded tactics to take away business that I have developed (this man's strategy is dishonest and unethical, and apparently the way he works, illegal), then I would DEFINTELY get any authority involved that I could.
I really don't mind rehashing some of the debate. When I started my window cleaning business, I got a business licence, insurance, paid taxes, did everything on the up and up. From all views, I have a legal and upstanding practice. No one should try to run a small business otherwise.
Gaza, I would not hesitate one more second! Nail the guy!! Do it in a legal, professional way. Get the HS involved. No way anyone should get such an advantage or hurt your business through lies and illegal business practice. NO WAY!!
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Thanks Marc : FOR YOUR VOTE,TO PROCEED the way I thought I should,having learnt off this forum the error of my ways for the last 40 yrs, hit 1st, then tell them after, why you did it ,as you stand over them.I WILL WAIT TO SEE WHAT OTHERS SAYS 1ST MARC.but at least were winning 2_0 at the moment Marc ;D
gaza
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Gaza,
This thread is getting to big to follow. Could you please start another, titled similar, give us all an update on what's happening and let me lock this one?
I'm just losing the plot here; so I guess other members are too.
Cheers.
Tosh.
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ageed... just start it anew :)
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I stopped reading it ages ago.
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QUITE AGREE WITH YOU: LOCK IT PLEASE IM VENTING MY ANGER SOMEWHERE ELSE.WOULD LIKE TO THANKYOU ALL FOR YOUR POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE RESPONSES,THEY HAVE HELPED ME KEEP SAIN THROUGH THIS DIFFICULT TIME
GAZA
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Locked; but I/we would like an update on what's been happening and your 'action plan'.
Regards,
Tosh.