Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gewindows on January 12, 2010, 07:48:31 am
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I filled my van tank up last night, and by the time I went to bed the water temp was well over 50°C, approaching 60.
Over the last day or two I have also been insulating the tank with loft insulating stuff from B+Q, that stuff which is on a roll. And then lining the tank with ply, over the insulating, to make a neat job of it and have somewhere to fix some shelves to.
Came down this morning and checked temp in tank, its still over 50°C, considering its probably floating around 0°C or slightly below outside I was impressed.
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That seems very hot, I would be worried about cracking the glass.
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By the time it gets out of the brush it will be nowhere near that temp so it will be fine. Good job Matt!
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Mat,
I may have missed a post on how you heat your water to that temp, what are you using.
It is obviosly doing a grand job.
Dennis
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I invested in a 3KW heater, just the the same as an aquarium heater but made from Titanium, so cant smash.
Most aquarium heaters only go up to 300W and will therefore only heat the water to 30°C; this thing keeps on going.
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I invested in a 3KW heater, just the the same as an aquarium heater but made from Titanium, so cant smash.
Most aquarium heaters only go up to 300W and will therefore only heat the water to 30°C; this thing keeps on going.
Where did you buy that. And how much?
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That sounds the biz mate, how long does it take to get the water to that sort of temp ? is it a drop in the tank type or do you have to pump your water through it.
Which ever it sounds the biz.
Dennis
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Any pics uncle bateman ?
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Matt do you think a controller would help in the heating process?
Cheers
Dave.
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Matt do you think a controller would help in the heating process?
Cheers
Dave.
Yes mate it would. They are expensive, £135.00 but Im going to get one, other thermostats for aquariums arent intended for a piece of kit that requires such large wattage, so they'll burn out. Which is a shame as they retail for about £15.00
Any pics uncle bateman ?
I will mate, later, hopefully.
That sounds the biz mate, how long does it take to get the water to that sort of temp ? is it a drop in the tank type or do you have to pump your water through it.
It took abotu 5 hours to heat it to that temp, possibly a little longer, I think as weather conditions improve it wont take so long as the outside temp is going to influence it slightly.
Where did you buy that. And how much?
From here http://shop.aquakoiaquatics.com/wei-pro-153-c.asp
but theyve sold out at the mo which is why there arent any on the page.
Type in 'wei-pro 3kw heater' into google.
£150.00
Just got back from job, and water hasnt dropped in temp by more than 2 degrees since this morning.
Although at the brush head it was significantly lower due to the fact that all the reel was unwound (big job to do today) and there was 3" of snow on the ground. At a guess Id say it was about 20 at the head.
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Good idea but surley it will be expensive to use the 3KW heater all the time
wouldnt it work out cheaper to run a L5 heater?
Would be interesting to see comparisons in running costs on this one
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sounds the bizzo,we were all set for work today,tank fine,hoses froze ;((
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Good idea but surley it will be expensive to use the 3KW heater all the time
wouldnt it work out cheaper to run a L5 heater?
Would be interesting to see comparisons in running costs on this one
Yes Im sure it would, but Ive heard a few stories on here about them being unreliable, flame going out etc, also theres the health and safety element of using gas in a vehicle and transporting gas.
This is Im sure more expensive than gas but its a case of swings and roundabouts.
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(http://www.oakleywindowcleaning.co.uk/DSCF0523.JPG)
(http://www.oakleywindowcleaning.co.uk/DSCF0524.JPG)
(http://www.oakleywindowcleaning.co.uk/DSCF0525.JPG)
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Is it something like this Matt? http://www.koi-fish.co.uk/acatalog/Wei_Pro_Titanium_Heaters.html
Also found the website of that equipment http://en.weipro.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/GeneralContentShow.html
Cheers
Dave.
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Just a thought Matt, would heating the water directly and all night cause problems with algae etc, as when you have a fish tank and heat it you have to put in chemicals to stop algae.
Not sure whether you would get any problem, but might be wise to keep eye on tank.
Darren
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Just a thought Matt, would heating the water directly and all night cause problems with algae etc, as when you have a fish tank and heat it you have to put in chemicals to stop algae.
Not sure whether you would get any problem, but might be wise to keep eye on tank.
Darren
Algae in fish tanks isnt caused by heat its caused by light.
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Is it something like this Matt? http://www.koi-fish.co.uk/acatalog/Wei_Pro_Titanium_Heaters.html
Cheers
Dave.
Thats the baby Dave, those prices appear to include the thermostat.
Careful which one you order, they arent all the 3KW; depends what size you want.
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heres one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-KW-STAINLESS-STEEL-PROFI-WATER-HEATER-KOI-FISH-POND_W0QQitemZ110378357711QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK?hash=item19b31013cf#ht_3058wt_939
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Thats external heater, you need to plumb that in outside your tank and then fit a pump to pump it through the heating element.
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is it a drop in the tank type
Thats the one! Just lob it in through the lid hole.
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Just a thought Matt, would heating the water directly and all night cause problems with algae etc, as when you have a fish tank and heat it you have to put in chemicals to stop algae.
Not sure whether you would get any problem, but might be wise to keep eye on tank.
Darren
Algae in fish tanks isnt caused by heat its caused by light.
Matt, I know light is one cause but algae builds up quicker when water is heated,
Only trying to help and make suggestions, which is what this site is about.
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Thats really good work you've been doing this cold snap...well done Matt!!!
I have also been looking at heating my new static ro cabinate and have been looking at pulse proportional thermostats to be used inconjunction with infra-red heat lamps like they use for keeping poultry warm....
Here is some blurb from http://www.habistat.net/
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Sophisticated pulse proportional thermostat, ideal for controlling higher power ceramic heaters. The function of this thermostat is far more sophisticated than the simpler on/off switching devices. It will very accurately control heaters and has a maximum load of 600 watts. A normal thermostat switches a heater on full power until the set temperature is achieved. It then switches the heater off completely until the temperature drops below the set value, when the cycle starts over again. The gap between the heater being switched on and then off is called hysteresis. It is between these points that the accuracy of the controller is assessed. The pulse proportional thermostat pulses electricity to the heater.
The sequence of events are as follows: The temperature is set on the dial. The cage and heater are cold so the heater is on full power.As the temperature in the cage nears the set temperature the unit cuts the power down to pulses.The degree of pulse (i.e. the ammount of time the heater is on and the ammount of time it is off) is dependent on the cage temperature. In the early stages of approaching the set temperature the 'on' pulses will be long and the 'off' time will be short. In a correctly set up cage, as the desired temperature is neared, the 'on' pulses become shorter until the cycle levels at approximately 50% on and 50% off. In a cage where the heater is of the correct capacity, the cycle should remain at this point. The heater is only powered enough to maintain the temperature set. It does not have to continually start the heater from cold. This vastly improves heater element life and is far safer for the animals as the heater rarely, if ever, needs to run at full power.
Cheers
Dave
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Just a thought Matt, would heating the water directly and all night cause problems with algae etc, as when you have a fish tank and heat it you have to put in chemicals to stop algae.
Not sure whether you would get any problem, but might be wise to keep eye on tank.
Darren
Algae in fish tanks isnt caused by heat its caused by light.
Matt, I know light is one cause but algae builds up quicker when water is heated,
Only trying to help and make suggestions, which is what this site is about.
Yes, sorry, I hope my answer didnt come across as being short, I didnt mean to offend.
My IBC outside is spray painted black and also the van tank is not going to get light in it as its ply-lined, my understanding of algae growth is that its primary food source comes from light, in just the same way as corals receive their nutrition.
My little experiment may prove me wrong!
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I really like the look of this.
It's a low cost investment and should be quite cheap to run.
Brain power, not Pound Power. That's what I really like to see.
The only thing that springs to my little mind is that it relies on good insulation. In the morning when the tank is full, it should stay very warm. But, as the day progresses the water will cool down much faster as the tank empties and there's more tank than water!
But what the heck! As long as it's warm enough in the morning, you aren't actually losing anything in the afternoon, are you? It's just a regular system that still works perfectly well.
This is brilliant and you can tune it to the seasons. You can decide what temperature is more suitable to winter weather, summer weather etc.
Written with a glow of admiration!!!
ATB Wally
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Thats really good work you've been doing this cold snap...well done Matt!!!
I have also been looking at heating my new static ro cabinate and have been looking at pulse proportional thermostats to be used inconjunction with infra-red heat lamps like they use for keeping poultry warm....
Here is some blurb from http://www.habistat.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sophisticated pulse proportional thermostat, ideal for controlling higher power ceramic heaters. The function of this thermostat is far more sophisticated than the simpler on/off switching devices. It will very accurately control heaters and has a maximum load of 600 watts. A normal thermostat switches a heater on full power until the set temperature is achieved. It then switches the heater off completely until the temperature drops below the set value, when the cycle starts over again. The gap between the heater being switched on and then off is called hysteresis. It is between these points that the accuracy of the controller is assessed. The pulse proportional thermostat pulses electricity to the heater.
The sequence of events are as follows: The temperature is set on the dial. The cage and heater are cold so the heater is on full power.As the temperature in the cage nears the set temperature the unit cuts the power down to pulses.The degree of pulse (i.e. the ammount of time the heater is on and the ammount of time it is off) is dependent on the cage temperature. In the early stages of approaching the set temperature the 'on' pulses will be long and the 'off' time will be short. In a correctly set up cage, as the desired temperature is neared, the 'on' pulses become shorter until the cycle levels at approximately 50% on and 50% off. In a cage where the heater is of the correct capacity, the cycle should remain at this point. The heater is only powered enough to maintain the temperature set. It does not have to continually start the heater from cold. This vastly improves heater element life and is far safer for the animals as the heater rarely, if ever, needs to run at full power.
Cheers
Dave
Dave have you ever thought about using a heat mat to keep ro warm ?
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I really like the look of this.
It's a low cost investment and should be quite cheap to run.
Brain power, not Pound Power. That's what I really like to see.
The only thing that springs to my little mind is that it relies on good insulation. In the morning when the tank is full, it should stay very warm. But, as the day progresses the water will cool down much faster as the tank empties and there's more tank than water!
But what the heck! As long as it's warm enough in the morning, you aren't actually losing anything in the afternoon, are you? It's just a regular system that still works perfectly well.
This is brilliant and you can tune it to the seasons. You can decide what temperature is more suitable to winter weather, summer weather etc.
Written with a glow of admiration!!!
ATB Wally
Throughout the course of the day the water lost 4°C tops, probably 3.
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I have thought about those heat mats but thought the higher watt outputs of the infra-read bulbs or those ceramic heat emitter bulbs might be the way to go...
Again like Matt has done...insulate the cabinate and then thought about having that foiled bubble wrap on the inside also to reflect heat and a additional 'barrier'.
The Plan for the next freeze is not to have to worry about on of it..just let the equipment take care of it's self.
Cheers
Dave.
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I really like the look of this.
It's a low cost investment and should be quite cheap to run.
Brain power, not Pound Power. That's what I really like to see.
The only thing that springs to my little mind is that it relies on good insulation. In the morning when the tank is full, it should stay very warm. But, as the day progresses the water will cool down much faster as the tank empties and there's more tank than water!
But what the heck! As long as it's warm enough in the morning, you aren't actually losing anything in the afternoon, are you? It's just a regular system that still works perfectly well.
This is brilliant and you can tune it to the seasons. You can decide what temperature is more suitable to winter weather, summer weather etc.
Written with a glow of admiration!!!
ATB Wally
Throughout the course of the day the water lost 4°C tops, probably 3.
Brilliant. An ounce of experience outweighs a ton of ideas.
You's da man!
Still full of admiration.
Wally
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I have thought about those heat mats but thought the higher watt outputs of the infra-read bulbs or those ceramic heat emitter bulbs might be the way to go...
Again like Matt has done...insulate the cabinate and then thought about having that foiled bubble wrap on the inside also to reflect heat and a additional 'barrier'.
The Plan for the next freeze is not to have to worry about on of it..just let the equipment take care of it's self.
Cheers
Dave.
Only reason I was thinking this is heat rises it does not fall a mat at bottom would use the heat wisely, well that was my thoughts...
Mattss idea about fish tanks heater has got to be a winner, now a supplier should do one for an ibc or van mount and we would all be on a winner,
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Give it a week and there will be an onmiaquaheater, patented of course ;D
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Give it a week and there will be an onmiaquaheater, patented of course ;D
And don't forget the OmniInsulation Cab
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Andrews water treatment were selling them about 4 years ago, haven't checked there web-site lately, but probably still on.
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Mattss idea about fish tanks heater has got to be a winner, now a supplier should do one for an ibc or van mount and we would all be on a winner,
but as soon as a supplier gets involved the price doubles, look at 100 gpd RO's, fish keeping ( 65 quid delivered ) suppliers 140 quid delivered
this was the whole point of the heaters, i have spoken to a electronics mate of mine and when my 500 W heaters arrive ( next week by al accounts ), he is going to have 1 and strip it down and look at what needs to be done to override the thermostat, the idea for me is that 2 X 500 W heaters without the thermostat will bang out enough heat to get nice temps over night
30 quid for 2 of them, upto 50 - 60 C, nice
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Give it a week and there will be an onmiaquaheater, patented of course ;D
;D ;D i miss glyn, he would have bitten at that
here is my guess at his reply
" yes they come in the came box, yes they are the same heaters, BUT my workshop guy has looked over them and made sure they work "
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You have to admit that Matt has done really good work this silly season so he must be top of the list for an appreciation award from CIU/WC...
Given that I am as tight as ''well you know what' he can just get a very grateful thanks...
Cheers
Dave.
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Maybe it just means Father Christmas will visit me next Christmas ;D
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nice job :) matt whats the warm water like through the pump, not too hot does it work ok?
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No probs today with it.
I think its a bit of a case of having to play around with things, temp etc. Do you heat it in the IBC or van tank? Heat it to 20° C above what you want it at the brush head or not quite so much? Maybe adjust that figure in the summer. Of course it'll take less time to heat to required temp in the summer too.
So its a works in progress thing really at the mo.
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Just a thought Matt, would heating the water directly and all night cause problems with algae etc, as when you have a fish tank and heat it you have to put in chemicals to stop algae.
Not sure whether you would get any problem, but might be wise to keep eye on tank.
Darren
Algae in fish tanks isnt caused by heat its caused by light.
Matt, I know light is one cause but algae builds up quicker when water is heated,
Only trying to help and make suggestions, which is what this site is about.
Yes, sorry, I hope my answer didnt come across as being short, I didnt mean to offend.
My IBC outside is spray painted black and also the van tank is not going to get light in it as its ply-lined, my understanding of algae growth is that its primary food source comes from light, in just the same way as corals receive their nutrition.
My little experiment may prove me wrong!
Matt, I hope it works, only time will tell.
I am sure more will follow you with this solution as even the cost of running the heater is nothing if you can get a days work in. My swimming pool heater is 12 kw and that is turned on about easter time and turned off around mid September for 24 hours a day. That puts about £60 extra a month on Electric bill, for months it used.
Your heater is 3kw, so its a quarter ofthe power of mine, so surely only quarter of cost to run £15 per month, if thats right the cost ofrunning your heater should be bargain.
All the best with it
Darren
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No probs today with it.
I think its a bit of a case of having to play around with things, temp etc. Do you heat it in the IBC or van tank? Heat it to 20° C above what you want it at the brush head or not quite so much? Maybe adjust that figure in the summer. Of course it'll take less time to heat to required temp in the summer too.
So its a works in progress thing really at the mo.
yes a friend told me its ok as long as the water is not scolding hot , he said just enough to put your hands in , he sells the pumps for boats , they are flowjets .
im going to do that with mine ive got to get some money in, ill be ready for next time that i am sure of.
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think ill get what you got to heat the water up , i did buy a emmersiom but not sure about fitting it yet , cost of running it and what size cable to get and things like that.
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No probs today with it.
I think its a bit of a case of having to play around with things, temp etc. Do you heat it in the IBC or van tank? Heat it to 20° C above what you want it at the brush head or not quite so much? Maybe adjust that figure in the summer. Of course it'll take less time to heat to required temp in the summer too.
So its a works in progress thing really at the mo.
yes a friend told me its ok as long as the water is not scolding hot , he said just enough to put your hands in ,
you had better ask dr windows about that, he is the hot water expert ::) ::) ::) or so he says
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the bloke i know knows what hes on about he recons its ok as long as its not boiling hot, you dont need it that hot anyway to clean windows
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Hi this is Glin just wanting to let you CIP members know, I have registered the name "OMNI quack "so you can copy it but do memtion that name or I will have to sort you out
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Matt would it be possible to keep a diary or something like that about your experiances with your new set-up re: heat etc over the next couple of weeks...it's very, very intresting.
I'm in the process of rebuilding my static system and have just bought 2x pulse proportional thermostats and then getting a couple of ibcs etc, etc...but the time to find out this information is now..i.e the winter conditions.
Hope you'll be able to help.
Cheers
Dave.
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I can do if you like, let me know what figures you want recorded and I'll try to.
I think its only fair to consider recording anything once this snow has gone as it is in all honesty extreme weather that we dont have to work in most of the time.
My 6mm pipe to pole was unwound for most of the day to its entire length lying in 4 inches of snow, its gonna skew a fair reflection of its effectiveness.
Im hoping next week would be more likely to give a fairer view.
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matt will you leave that like it is through the summer now you have done it?
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I am looking that the same wei-pro item as yourself the 3kw jobbie...but I would be intrested in heat up times...and loss temps and time...
Which size tank do you have?
Cheers
Dave.
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Yea, if Im feeling lazy I may not heat the water every day, but I like the thought of being able to have hot water for bird strikes and also them damn snail trails and spiders webs in the autumn.
Hot is meant to be good for algae etc on gutters and conservatory roofs and new cleans so it'll all be there and used most of the time.
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Which size tank do you have?
Cheers
Dave.
380 litres mate
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Thanks I look forward to you observations over the coming weeks.
Cheers
Dave.
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Dave, just clarify what it is you would prefer to know.
How hot? How long it stays hot for? How long does it take to heat up? That kind of thing? Or what?
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Thats the kiddie...outside temps would be a boon also...cheers Dave...
I'll owe you a pint ;D
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8)
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heres one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-KW-STAINLESS-STEEL-PROFI-WATER-HEATER-KOI-FISH-POND_W0QQitemZ110378357711QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK?hash=item19b31013cf#ht_3058wt_939
I use this type of heater to heat my koi pond, keeps all my koi nice and warm.
it would work with a pump. but that would another cost.