Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dominic on June 12, 2005, 04:46:43 pm
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Hi
Got my system on Friday so thought I'd practice on my own windows first. I was prepared for the first clean probably taking two or three goes but I've tried to clean my double glazing downstairs about ten times and they are still covered in a greasy film. They are upvc, typical style, with one main section of glass and two openers and the other one has just the one opener. I've been a long user of fairy the trad way so I'm prepared for the worst on my round. I've done a day course and followed all the instructions for first time cleans. I was told that I wouldn't need to use any detergent or other products to cut through the old residues. Is this true or do I need to use something else. If so should I get this on my brush or do I need to use a seperate brush so that I don't contaminate my rinsing brush. Any info would be much appreciated as it's looking like I will need to get the ladders out for Monday morn.
cheers
Dom
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Do the windows come up clean? Not all windows sheet perfectly, it is a bit unnerving to start with when the water beads rather than sheets, but as long as you rinse well on the first cleans you should be fairly well ok. Just explain to the customers that there may be some spots or maybe the odd slight streak the first time or 2, offer to re-clean if they think that the spotting is excessively bad and unacceptable.
Go and try on a neighbours windows tonight, you may restore your faith.
Marc
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Hi Marc,
The windows are covered in a layer of white sort of film or grease. They are really bad. It doesn't matter how many times I try I just can't get it of with just pure water.
Cheers Dom
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when i got my system i tried them on my own windows 1st and they came out ok with just 1 or 2 small spots but nothing to be concerned about, maybe as marc says try a neighbours or friends 1st maybe there is a problem with your windows? whatever happens don't be disheartened once you get going you will never look back.............
good luck
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Cheers guy's. I feel a bit disheartened today but will attack a relatives windows tomorrow.
Do you have to keep your brushes clean between cleans and do you use a product to do this? I'm using ionics brushes? They told me they were self cleaning and that I could rinse window whilst leaving brush on the glass but surely if there is loads of residue on glass the brush will get messed up.
I know these are basic questions but I've been searching the forum for hours.
Cheers for the support.
Dom
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hi dom, i leave my brush soaked in a small container mixed with pure water and g3, not between every job though just now and then seems to work ok for me
jay
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Cheers Jay,
I'll try that but is it true that I'd have to use GG4 as I'm in a hard water area ?
Cheers
Dom
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Cheers Jay,
I'll try that but is it true that I'd have to use GG4 as I'm in a hard water area ?
Cheers
Dom
correct me anybody if i'm wrong, even though you are in a hard water area the water you are washing your brush out with is pure so therfore it's soft, g3 will do
jay
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Good point Jay, I see it's going to take me a while to get my head round the whole wfp thing. I'll order some gg3 then.
I cleaned a relatives conservatory windows today and they are double glazed upvc similar to mine. I took my time cleaned top frames thoroughly and then side frames, waited for them to dry then went back and cleaned glass up and down starting in bottom left corners and then rinsed from left to right, top to bottom, then sills. Once dried I checked out all the windows and they were an improvement on my home ones but there were still greasy patches in the corners and a few white spots. Am I doing something wrong with my technique still?
I did clean a conservatory roof today and that went great but no-one can see through that can they. ;D I still don't feel confident that I could clean a customers windows to a good enough standard yet so I'll have to keep practicing.
Thanks for the advice so far.
Cheers Dom
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Just a thought. Were your containers new when you bought them or recycled. Have you tried taking a tds reading on the water as it leaves the pole?
Maybe something in the containers if they were recycled. Dai
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Hi dai
that's an interesting point. My tds meter is fixed to the machine and gives a reading of 000 but maybe I should get one of those hand held meters to check reading of water after it has left pole to see if there is any thing going on as the water comes through the system and up through pole. By the way, I think everything is new and not recycled but you never know.
cheers
Dom
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By the way do you know the best place to get one of these pocket meters
cheers
Dom
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Dominic
I will put the cat amongst the pigeons here regards cleaning brushes. I use Ionics brushes and am probably the most careless person you will ever meet as regards cleaning them, ie I don't! I pull the odd cobweb out of them that gets stuck, other than that they sometimes get a quick rinse, it is true that they don't seem to hold the dirt in as they are single filament.
marc
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By the way do you know the best place to get one of these pocket meters
cheers
Dom
hi put in a search for tds metre on ebay the cheapest i've seen! :o
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it might be the soap from the fairy if you use it fairly strong
try and clean with GG4 and water using the old fashioned way
i use 20ml to 5L of water in a bucket, this normally removes the old soap from the windows
worth a try ;)
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Good point Jay, I see it's going to take me a while to get my head round the whole wfp thing. I'll order some gg3 then.
I cleaned a relatives conservatory windows today and they are double glazed upvc similar to mine. I took my time cleaned top frames thoroughly and then side frames, waited for them to dry then went back and cleaned glass up and down starting in bottom left corners and then rinsed from left to right, top to bottom, then sills. Once dried I checked out all the windows and they were an improvement on my home ones but there were still greasy patches in the corners and a few white spots. Am I doing something wrong with my technique still?
I did clean a conservatory roof today and that went great but no-one can see through that can they. ;D I still don't feel confident that I could clean a customers windows to a good enough standard yet so I'll have to keep practicing.
Thanks for the advice so far.
Cheers Dom
hi dom, try rinsing frames and windows well first then a good scrub with the brush finally a jolly good rinse that might help
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Thanks for all the great feedback guys. I'm going to try everything you've suggested today and will tell you how I get on. I'm determined to get this nailed.
If it is the Fairy that we've used in the past do you think I should do our whole round the trad way using the gg4 method and then attempt the wfp or is that taking things a bit far? Has anyone else done this?
Thanks again
Dom
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I had similar problems to you mate. What i did was thoroughly wash the frames, with scrubbing them. Then heavily rinse, then wash the windows, and repeat it once more. Second clean will only need a brief rub on frames, but still rinse well.
Steve
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Hi UBA1
Are you saying that you would get the ladder to the window and scrub the frame before using the wfp?
If this is the case then I could do that prior to starting the wfp.
Steveyboy
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Hi UBA1
Are you saying that you would get the ladder to the window and scrub the frame before using the wfp?
If this is the case then I could do that prior to starting the wfp.
Steveyboy
Nah! LOL!! Scrub it with the brush head, obvioulsy wet it, then scrub.
Definately not getting me ladders out. ;)
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for a good quality tds meter at very reasonable price go
to www.ro-man.com at £ 17-50 i think is fair
keith
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I'm thinking of cleaning all the frames of the ones I will be using wfp on. I will clean them the month before and when I start using the wfp then it would be a bit easier.
Steveyboy
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OK four months experience for you! (Look at my early pole posts and see how much bailing out I needed!)
My method for first cleans
Set water flow low and thoroughly wash the top frame first.
Now do the side frames and and then any transom bars.
Switch off water flow and scrub all the glass thoroughly.
Switch on water flow to low again and do glass at very top but avoid the top frame.
Clean all upper panes above transom bar and with brush lightly resting at top of glass but not on frame let water run down thru brush to rinse.
Clean all glass beneath transom bar.
Go back up below any transom bar and rest brush lightly just beneath and let water flow and gently but thoroughly rinse.
Run brush along cill and job done.
Next time will be twice as fast.
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If it is the Fairy that we've used in the past do you think I should do our whole round the trad way using the gg4 method and then attempt the wfp or is that taking things a bit far? Has anyone else done this?
Thanks again
Dom
try it on yours, i did all of my round TWICE with a strong solution of GG4, dont know if it did any good, but ive had it fairly good :)
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Hi
just got a pocket tds and tested water coming from outlet on side of van. It read 010 at the cold pump and 017 at the hot pump. The reading at the tank's built in tds meter says 000. This I would presume means the water is getting impure somewhere between the tank and the outlets. I rang the manufacturer and they said it's probably the new hoses settling in. ??? So I just drained about 500 litres to try and flush the system through and every now and again I kept taking readings to see if there was any change. Didn't have any luck so I did a backwash then an ro flush and then refilled. When the tank had filled I crossed my fingers and the tank read 003 and after a cough and a splutter the outlets eventually read 000.What a relief!!!
So having got the water sorted I decided to hit my windows again and they did seem a bit better but still got greasy crap on them. So it looks like I'm going to have to wait for my gg4 to arrive cos these windows just aren't gonna clean with just pure water. Should get the package in the morning so will try to clean windows first trad way with gg4 and maybe try dipping the brushes to give them a rinse also.
The good thing is the system is running how it should now so I can take that out of the equation, so I feel that at least I've made some good progress!
Thanks for helping me get the system sorted. I'll tell you how I get on with the gg4 tomorrow.
cheers
Dom
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I cant believe so many w/c make this into such heavy weather!
Look, newbs, just get your pure water, ok? Great. Pure water.
Find a way of getting it to the window (look elsewhere).
Scrub from top right to left of window and down as you do it.
Rinse.
Leave to dry.
Take the money.
Repeat every two months.
Retire when ready.
:)
have you been on that wfp course ;D ;D
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I tell you what Mr unpleasant you've caught me at a bad time with your last post.
I've just been out in the rain trying again to clean my window again and again and again. I've got pure water now 000,I've cleaned it first with the gg4 trad way and they came up perfect, I've rinsed my brush and then I've carried out the first time clean method as taught at BWCA and the poxy window has still got crappy smears on it and I'm about to set light to my van and jump of the Clifton suspension bridge. So the weather is pretty heavy here at the moment >:(.
I've been cleaning windows for ten years now with no issues and now I'm wondering what the hell I've got myself into. If you fancy coming down and showing me how it's done feel free.
Now sorry to have a rant but that's where I'm at at the moment and any constructive advice would be well appreciated.
Thanks again for all the good advice so far maybe I've just got weird windows but believe me I'm trying.
cheers Dom
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Have you cleaned any other houses may be relative and see how they come up?
I think you will find windows like yours are very few and far between, as it seems as you are doing things right. As I said try another house.
Roy
Also dont loose hart as I used a squeegee for 20yrs and Wfp 15 months and it does leave them spotless.
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Cheers Roy,
I did try a relatives and they weren't too good either but that was before I got the readings down to 000 and I didn't have the gg4 either.
Anyway maybe I've just been unlucky so I'm going to try on a few customers houses tomorrow and see what happens. Probably just do downstairs with pole so if it goes pear shaped I can quickly go over them trad way. I'm never going to know for sure if I don't just get out there and try it out on a variety of windows.
Anyway I'll tell you how I get on and hopefully I'll have some good news.
cheers
Dom
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Dominic
Do you live in Bristol, as I live in Monmouth your welcome to come with me for a day anytime.
Roy
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Hi Dominic
I am going over to wfp very soon so reading this topic is of real interest to me. But of course I dont like to hear that you are having a bad time of it.
I'm just wondering if you have cleaned your windows before this the traditional way and have had no problem with the glass. I ask this because us w/c never really clean our own windows and when we do its cause we're told to so dont take as much care.
If I were you I would clean them the old way and see how they come up. This may of course be a stupid sugestion as you may already have done this.
Steveyboy
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DOM:IM at a loss to know what to say,but if I were in your area you would be more than welcome to come and have a look at what pole work can do.
Little teething probs are normally sorted out in the end ,like Iwas wondering why I was getting a high tds reading when I had just filled up resin vessel with new resin,then one day it dawned on me [the hose I had just filled up the tank with still had tap water init] but when Istarted using wfp it was in its early days.
only suggestion Ican make is :get a clean bucket and mop,using pure water no soaps clean windows with it and see if grease marks appear then,you could squeezy the pure water of as well,and take note of the results.
if no grease marks appear then its in you tecnique [sorry to tell you]
keep aving the faith in your pole,you in a few weeks will be laughing you self to sleep at night thinking what was all the fuss about. At least youve got help,when I first started it was make the excuses up as you went on,the problem I had was remembering which customer I had told what to,that was due to lack of training by the supplier nice to see training is now available.
With the amount of mistakes and the learning curve I went through on my own I could teach the trainers some tricks [me thinks] ,just keep the faith in your pole.
GAZA
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Hi Dom,
Out of interest which make are you using!
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i am near Bath, your more than welcome to take a drive down here
it must be your windows, they might have some coating on or soemthing, as you have all the area's covered, 000 tds and clean windows
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Hi daservices, I'm using an Ionics system. Unfortunately I didn't get the opportunity to use it today as I just had to get out there and bring some cash in quick but hopefully I'll get the chance to practice with the pole tomorrow. With all the great advice I've received I think that the system is probably fine and it was either me or the windows. When I hit some different glass tomorrow I should find out for sure.
Matt, I'll definitely take you up on the offer if I can't get it sorted so thanks for offering.
cheers
Dom
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God Domonic your having a nightmare
i,ve been wfp for over a year now but never had this greasy residue on the glass .
if i were you go into the garden get some big bricks and smash any window that does this ,insurance will then come out and replace hopefully problem will be solved .
I f all of your csm,s are like this it could get boring (watch you don,t get caught ) ;D
I read somewhere that tfr (traffic film remover ) may solve this if could be cheaper .
hope this helps ;)
darren..................
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You'll be pleased to hear things are changing and I cleaned three of my customers places with the poles today. No major issues and no complaints so far, just a few spots which I warned them about.
So it looks like it was just my windows after all. Typical when your just starting out and you want to practice on your own.
I did manage to get tangled up in a few bushes and got completely soaked which I'm sure is quite common on your first attempts. We also slowed down by about a quarter of the time but I'm sure we'll speed up when we get used to it.
It doesn't look like I'm going to have to do my whole round with gg4 the trad way first either which is a relief.
I also managed to do a salt backwash without changing the pipes over. Everything clogged up for a while and my drainage pipe got completely blocked. Dosey idiot ;D
Does anyone know if this could have caused any major damage?
I'm doing a refill now anyway so I suppose I'll find out if there are any issues as I go.
Anyway thanks for all the fantastic advice. I'd have been at a complete loss if it wasn't for all the help. So cheers again.
Dom ;D
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I did manage to get tangled up in a few bushes and got completely soaked which I'm sure is quite common on your first attempts. We also slowed down by about a quarter of the time but I'm sure we'll speed up when we get used to it.
the bush issue is a draw back to using hose :(
the getting wet, you must be standing too close, stand back a little
speed will come when you get the knack
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Dominic
You said that the windows are still greesy when you have tried wfp cleaning, what I have tried and have found works for me is if they are really greesy I use a non stick pan cleaner ( the stainless steel pad) to break down the dirt then I scrub like crazy and rinse quite well, I then blade the window dry, after you have done this a few times you will not need to do this anymore and the window will be clean perfectly.
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Hi Dominic
Cheers, I am also looking to go to Ionics in the future, would appreciate on keeping us updated if this is the majic system or not.
Thanks
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Well here's the latest. After having some success on Friday I got the van filled up again. I didn't fill right up because I'm not doing whole round with pole yet. Got up this morn and thought I'd check readings ready for Monday. I've got 000 at the tank and 016 at the brush :(. Here we go again. ( I have run the system for a while to give it the benefit of the doubt ).Now I have to decide whether to waste all this water and try to refill to get a good reading or whether to use this water on Monday. Does anyone Know if 016 will clean windows properly.
I'm hoping this is still the new hoses settling in. It's getting impure somewhere between tank and brush. So I'm not sure what is going on.
Cheers for offer Roy will take you up on it if I can't get it sorted.
Daservices, I'll keep you updated on the system. It seems to have every angle covered we'll just have to see how it pans out and if it settles down. If you want to know anything in particular feel free to ask.
Cheers again
Dom
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Dom I feel for you mate, I am in the proccess of building my own system and your plight frightens me. I would start taking the whole system apart.
Take a TDS reading at the the pump outlet IF thats ok then it must be the hose or the pole I dont know what other bits you have connected to the line. Filters, final polishing DI canister or whatever, Eliminate every one by taking readings at the inlet and outlet of each one till you isolate the problem. Good luck Dai
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Hi Dom,
I am surprised that you have not had any help from Ionics as I am sure you paid quite a large sum for your system and would want a good return. Have you called them ? What was the response like etc?
Craig
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Hello Dominic.
I have just read through this topic, the advice about the brushes and hoses rings true. I have some ideas for you about the greasy windows, please give me a call when you get a chance and I'll talk you through it.
Kind regards
Craig Mawlam
Ionic System
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Hi Dominic, There is one other important issue here regarding your problems. If it was just a matter of sourcing componants, and putting systems together, Then I'm sure Matt could say goodby to window cleaning. He could set himself up in a unit somewhere and put out 20 of his systems a week. It's not that simple. There are consumer rights to be considered and the sale of goods act. Any item puchased new must be fit for the purpose intended. If you puchase a ready to go system then that system should be getting pure water to your brush. No if's or buts.
If a hose needs bedding in as you were told, then that should be done before you purchase. Why are the systems not tested and a certificate issued when you buy? I worked in engineering for years and the British standards had to be strictly adhered to. every componant was tested and the signature of the tester went with it. If you bought a new van you would not expect to have to take the thing appart before you can get it to work. Put the ball back in the manufactures court and get him to sort it. Dai
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Hi Wrighty, I've got to hand it to Ionics they have been very supportive. Its just a big learning curve for me and because I have invested so much into the system it is worrying when things don't seem to be going to plan. However I'm sticking with it for now cos I think it is just the new hoses bedding in so only time will tell. Ionics have made it quite clear that if I need anything sorted they will help which is great and they've also given plenty of advice on technique etc.
Dai I can see your point and I have obviously thought along these lines. However I just want to stay positive and I do feel that Ionics has been upfront about everything so far and I don't want to get into a client supplier battle online. Especially as they have been so supportive from the start. I can obviously see where your coming from though and I've really appreciated your help so far cheers.
Craig I will contact you with regards the greasy windows. However I think they are improving with time and I think living in Avonmouth might have something to do with it as there are probably plenty of nasties in the air here. But any extra knowledge is always welcome thanks.
Anyway will keep you updated.
cheers
Dom
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Dom,
I would stick with it and the reason for it being - I had a great trolley system for a month and then sold it due to spotting. I am going to purchase another soon for commercial contracts that I have and for conservatory roofs etc. I was the only one in my area using the system and I thought I could please everyone buy using it on domestics too but I was wrong and I got sick of getting tangled up etc.
Stick with it and good look - keep me informed
Craig
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Dominic,
I am currently in Germany working with our Ionic distributor, I will be back on Friday, I will be happy to come down to Avonmouth and help you get through the initial cleaning stage to get the right result and put your mind at rest.
The Initial cleans are the most difficult with removing soap residue from frames leaving the window clear.
This is why we are keen to show our systems working, we have 3 sales people demonstrating mainly on customers windows, the customer chooses the site and type of window they wish to see them on, I personally have only failed to get a satisfactory result on 2 occasions in 8 years, the glass was hydrophobic.
At Ionic we are keen to give our customers the best possible start with training from the BWCA.
As many wfp users on this forum know the first cleans are the hardest, it is nice to see them giving advice and encouraging confidents.
Dominic I will call you on my return.
Kind regards
Reuben ;)
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I will let you know once i have visited Dominic.