Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: david watts on December 16, 2009, 07:16:13 pm
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things could be about to get intresting;via the job market several firms are shuting
down.
evryones ringing around to get wc round going we had 6 wc 5yrs ago about 10/11
this summer now heard of 3 in last2 mths this week another 2 starting.
one bloke took a few jobs off me this year all of them bad in some way paying ect.
just keep an eye out could be a winter thing .
i am a one in ten :D
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things could be about to get intresting;via the job market several firms are shuting
down.
evryones ringing around to get wc round going we had 6 wc 5yrs ago about 10/11
this summer now heard of 3 in last2 mths this week another 2 starting.
one bloke took a few jobs off me this year all of them bad in some way paying ect.
just keep an eye out could be a winter thing .
i am a one in ten :D
Most will stop, happens every year, cant hack the cold and no work in the rain makes people get a real job ;D
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Each year I get more calls asking for a job, window cleaning is definitely a growing market, soon as wfp really goes mainstream as far as public perception is concern there will be tens of thousands new window cleaners who set up who have never done the job before. The weather isn’t going to put them off at all especially after there investment in wfp system and that initial enthusiasm they will have in starting out to help them get through all the start up problems.
Wfp is a fast growing trade; forget window cleaning and its current dying image. “Competition is coming” look for every advantage now while you have a head start.
good post ewan
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Each year I get more calls asking for a job, window cleaning is definitely a growing market, soon as wfp really goes mainstream as far as public perception is concern there will be tens of thousands new window cleaners who set up who have never done the job before. The weather isn’t going to put them off at all especially after there investment in wfp system and that initial enthusiasm they will have in starting out to help them get through all the start up problems.
Wfp is a fast growing trade; forget window cleaning and its current dying image. “Competition is coming” look for every advantage now while you have a head start.
i agree..i think there will be alot more competition in the not so distant future.. but hey i like a challange
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Each year I get more calls asking for a job, window cleaning is definitely a growing market, soon as wfp really goes mainstream as far as public perception is concern there will be tens of thousands new window cleaners who set up who have never done the job before. The weather isn’t going to put them off at all especially after there investment in wfp system and that initial enthusiasm they will have in starting out to help them get through all the start up problems.
Wfp is a fast growing trade; forget window cleaning and its current dying image. “Competition is coming” look for every advantage now while you have a head start.
Competition has always been here, and seems a few more starting, yet we pick up more this time of year, work it out, same has happened year on year.
Window cleaning is not as easy as people like to make out nor is running a business. I am not in anyway worried and continue to grow as planned.
Not one of your best post Ewan
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Each year I get more calls asking for a job, window cleaning is definitely a growing market, soon as wfp really goes mainstream as far as public perception is concern there will be tens of thousands new window cleaners who set up who have never done the job before. The weather isn’t going to put them off at all especially after there investment in wfp system and that initial enthusiasm they will have in starting out to help them get through all the start up problems.
Wfp is a fast growing trade; forget window cleaning and its current dying image. “Competition is coming” look for every advantage now while you have a head start.
i agree..i think there will be alot more competition in the not so distant future.. but hey i like a challange
That’s the spirit ;)
Ewan how long have you been cleaning windows for ?
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I was speaking with Gemma at Roundbuilders a few days ago, and she said she has done a lot of work this year for guys that have just started up. They have been made redundant, bought a system, done the BWCA course and then needed help to get the work.
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Ewan, as far as public perception goes I think most people prefer trad and will continue to do so. I do not believe loads of unemployed people will suddenly go wfp becuase to most it is quite a daunting thing to set up and it is far easier to start trad.
We seem to have a recession every 10 years or so and while this one is worse, I do not see the wfp market suddenly becoming flooded or even lots of serious window cleaners joining our throngs as a result.
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;D ;D
Ewan window cleaners come and go mate, theyre usually scally-wags/chavs working out of a beat up old escort, they'll be gone once they got to get out and work in a few more days like today was.
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i dont really want to worry about an increase of competition but i`ve never really had serious competition before, the area i work i`ve seen other cleaners come and go but knowbody who has ever poses a serious threat to my business
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competition is healthy,... look at the same day courier service a few years ago,
they was advertising like mad, got a van? here are all your leads to make a fortune, in every paper , every day.
2 guys i know tried it... 6 month later they went back to original job,
it is a business... and they had no idea how to make it tick.
Thats the key.
Anyone can drive a van up and down the country,
Anyone can be shown how to clean windows in a short space of time. But can just anyone.. build a successful profitable business.?
I dont think so,
The initial cost ,and work , which needs to be put in to a business ,is not for the faint hearted, the cold weather ,
building your round with very little , if any money at all ..at the start,
is a very daunting , and worrying time... and time is what you have to give it.
Along with hard work, a desire to succeed, keeping your head up when all is not good, .. and dragging yourself through all the bad times,
and that means total self motivation.
So , no... i dont think the average joe has all of these qualities, and thats why they are happy to work for an employer.,
So i dont worry too much about competition, in fact i have only been doing this for 3 years, and already i have seen half a dozen try to build a round in my area, and disappeared,
That is healthy for me, as i gain some customers when i know they have gone.
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this is the same as what happens in the plumbing/electicial business, people see adverts, pay there money think great, few months down line they leave as they do not know how to run a business, i bet a lot leave when the tax man comes calling for his money, so they have to get a job
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Each year I get more calls asking for a job, window cleaning is definitely a growing market, soon as wfp really goes mainstream as far as public perception is concern there will be tens of thousands new window cleaners who set up who have never done the job before. The weather isn’t going to put them off at all especially after there investment in wfp system and that initial enthusiasm they will have in starting out to help them get through all the start up problems.
Wfp is a fast growing trade; forget window cleaning and its current dying image. “Competition is coming” look for every advantage now while you have a head start.
i agree..i think there will be alot more competition in the not so distant future.. but hey i like a challange
That’s the spirit ;)
Ewan how long have you been cleaning windows for ?
Since the 80’s
You shock me with that, your clearly knowlegeable about business practice, yet some posts you make seem to say, you have never done window cleaning or run a real life business, quite odd tbh.
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people who get made redundant dont even think remotely of putting 5k + inot a wfp set up as they dont know anywhere near enough about it to invest that amount of cash, thats saying they get that money as a pay off in the first place, if they dont then no bank will lend them it with no cleaning experiance.
If someone goes into cleaning they always start off on a ladder and from what i see around me a lot thye only have two clothes, one for moving the dirt around on the frames and one for moving the dirt around on the window. Customers only let them so called clean there windows as they have no other cleaners around, each year i see people start and each year i see people fininsh. Its the same in every job and every line of work, the only reason we think its growing so much is because people have found web sites like this through doing their research into WFP or other cleaning issues.
I found this web site whilst doing research into going into WFP, i have 7 years trad cleaning and thought i new a lot about it, when you come on somewhere like here then you realise you dont, WFp is another total minefield. There is no way i would of invested my money into it without the research i put in first.
We see the influx every year and the winter ALWAYS sorts the men from the boys
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Ewan if you have been window cleaning since the 80s how come you have not built up a large limited company with employees by now? This is the way you keep advising people to go.
Seems to me you spend too much time theorising and telling others what to do instead of just going out there and actually doing it.
Now you seem to be panic mongering about tens of thousands soon to be joining our ranks to potetntially put us out of business.
For me this proves you are largely just a wind up merchant, either that or you need therapy.
No offense intended and best wishes for Christmas, dd
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people who get made redundant dont even think remotely of putting 5k + inot a wfp set up as they dont know anywhere near enough about it to invest that amount of cash, thats saying they get that money as a pay off in the first place, if they dont then no bank will lend them it with no cleaning experiance.
If someone goes into cleaning they always start off on a ladder and from what i see around me a lot thye only have two clothes, one for moving the dirt around on the frames and one for moving the dirt around on the window. Customers only let them so called clean there windows as they have no other cleaners around, each year i see people start and each year i see people fininsh. Its the same in every job and every line of work, the only reason we think its growing so much is because people have found web sites like this through doing their research into WFP or other cleaning issues.
I found this web site whilst doing research into going into WFP, i have 7 years trad cleaning and thought i new a lot about it, when you come on somewhere like here then you realise you dont, WFp is another total minefield. There is no way i would of invested my money into it without the research i put in first.
We see the influx every year and the winter ALWAYS sorts the men from the boys
Another denial post, forget about people being made redundant or the unemployed, just think of the level headed Joe blogs whose looking for a change and doesn’t want to spend a small fortune training for a few years!
Or put simply ask yourself is window cleaning more appealing with wfp?
If the winter is as bad as you make out why haven’t any of us stop window cleaning? So why should they?
no denial, are you telllin me that the levelheaded people have just realised that wc is the way forward? we have discussed on here loads of times about the stigma attached to it so i dont see your bankers or accountants dropping their pens and notebooks to pick up poles and scrims!!!!
winter is bad if your not used to working in the bad weather and also working in the rain
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Its all about supply and demand. Always has been always will be. The same in every industry.
Except now you also need money to go direct into WFP, cant do it with just one brain cell and a push-bike with ladders anymore.
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people who get made redundant dont even think remotely of putting 5k + inot a wfp set up as they dont know anywhere near enough about it to invest that amount of cash, thats saying they get that money as a pay off in the first place, if they dont then no bank will lend them it with no cleaning experiance.
If someone goes into cleaning they always start off on a ladder and from what i see around me a lot thye only have two clothes, one for moving the dirt around on the frames and one for moving the dirt around on the window. Customers only let them so called clean there windows as they have no other cleaners around, each year i see people start and each year i see people fininsh. Its the same in every job and every line of work, the only reason we think its growing so much is because people have found web sites like this through doing their research into WFP or other cleaning issues.
I found this web site whilst doing research into going into WFP, i have 7 years trad cleaning and thought i new a lot about it, when you come on somewhere like here then you realise you dont, WFp is another total minefield. There is no way i would of invested my money into it without the research i put in first.
We see the influx every year and the winter ALWAYS sorts the men from the boys
Another denial post, forget about people being made redundant or the unemployed, just think of the level headed Joe blogs whose looking for a change and doesn’t want to spend a small fortune training for a few years!
Or put simply ask yourself is window cleaning more appealing with wfp?
If the winter is as bad as you make out why haven’t any of us stop window cleaning? So why should they?
All trades have innovation, plumbers got plastic pipe & push-fit fittings. No need for flame, flux, skill or pipe benders. joiners got nail guns & a whole array of power tools. Plasterers got auto-feed screw guns etc.etc. the list goes on. All things that make their trade easier & quicker. IMO wfp will make little difference to the influx of new window cleaners, other factors will always remain though.
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It won't matter how many new window cleaners appear, any town or area can only support so many window cleaners, after a while it becomes self limiting.
Only so many people in any town or area want a window cleaner in the first place, if there should be a glut of newbie's starting up they won't all be able to get enough work to earn a living from it, certainly not the kind of living they might think they could get after reading about the vast incomes and hourly rates you read of on here and other forums.
You can pay all the round builders you like, they can only drum up so much business.
Of course another thing that happens when there is a lot of competition is that prices get forced down...and down....and down....
Now add in all of the startup costs of WFP and the running costs, vehicle costs and all other business costs, plus the many, many months it takes to build up a round that will earn you even a modest income and a great many will become totally disenchanted with the job.
In truth it takes years not months to build up a round to the point it is going to earn you a decent standard of living.
Yes, of course some are going to be amazing, building rounds, expanding, getting more vans and employing people as they go along, but they are the exception and not the rule.
People may well spend their redundancy on equipping themselves with a state of the art system and van to boot...and they can take all the 'day long' courses they like but it is still going to take them months to get the hang of window cleaning with WFP, and even longer to be any good at trad window cleaning...
If you are starting out as a window cleaner then this couldn't be a harder time to get into it, the worst recession in living memory, and - if going the WFP route - relatively expensive startup costs...what a nightmare for many who invest thousands, a flash van, flashy state of the art full van mount system...all their cash invested in something it is going to take them a few years to earn even a modest income from and having to compete all the time with other newbies chasing the same work....
If you are lucky enough to already be a well established business with a good reputation to boot then a plethora of newbies are not going to eat into your business too deeply, so far -and I've been going over 25 years now - I've never lost more than the occasional account to some newbie or other starting out in the trade.
You do have to move with the times though, you can't stand still in this or any other business....
Ian.
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Thats just what i was going type ;D
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Yes well thought out and presented.But..
Although i agree with much of what you say Ian what makes the current situation different is that virtually every economic sector in this country has now collapsed. It's pointless listing what has gone but most people would agree that manufacturing is not likely to come back anytime soon because of global forces and retail has becom dominated by big players.So what's left is the service industry in it's various guises.
We (wc) represent one of the very few real oppurtunities.The barriers to entry are almost non existent and it is possible to start the business while still claiming benefits.
What makes us (wc) even more special is that opp spotters know to look for an industry that is going through a period of change; that us wfp tech, H&S legislation, and cash rich time poor custies. The early adopters (thats us) get to cream it and enjoy an easy growth phase.Later as more people come in it gets harder.We are just begining to go into the getting harder part.
Rather annoyingly i have to agree with ewan on this.
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Well if this is the start of the difficult phase I'll be glasd for some respite the way things are here ;D
I feel a holiday booking coming on ;D ;D
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likes been said window cleaning is not easy money and its hard work!day in/day out!ive noticed more wc,s about but i just smile and go my merry way!15 yrs established.it takes yrs to hone the round and get good paying custys!!i just concentrate on my own custys/work etc.trust takes years to build up IMO.im not worried because there is NO NEED TO!!!ewan just likes to scaremainer and stir it.maybe hes paranoid about undercutting cos hes too expensive!it does happen believe me!!if i went round charging what some on ere are id defo lose work! ;D ;D
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seen a guy today with a set of BQ ladders going up to second floor with squeegy and mop in old pouch at the front of his sopping wet jeans terrified!freezing cold wind no hat or gloves.took him an hour to clean 2 houses while i did 5 in a row. ;).i used my extension pole,hat,gloves.no problem!im not worried!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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ive seen a crew of 3 fellas round my way, they go at the windows with there 2 cloths one for wiping and the other for smearing i think, the one who does the downstairs has a small bucket with a little bit of water in, my mother in law saw him using his bucket with the action of just throwing some water on the window, no joke, and then he wiped over it.
What gets me is people actually pay for them to so called clean there windows. They have no squegees or BOB's or scrims, they just smear the dirt around. I have no threat at all of losing work to them as i know even if they charge £1 a house my customers would not put up with that level of service.
My customers love it now i have gone WFP and everyone of them comment on how good the windows look
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u can clean windows with 2 cloths ste!its called "ragging".thats what all wc used to do before mop/squeegys back in the early 90s!i damp scrim little openers then polish with dry microfibre.they come up great!mop/squeegy everything else.i use the same "ragging" techniques on leaded and georgian if they are a regular 4 weekly clean.
regards dazmond
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Manufacturing isnt dead, Britain is still the 6th biggest manufacturer in the world.
Recession ? yes, but we are still loaded as a nation
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Manufacturing isnt dead, Britain is still the 6th biggest manufacturer in the world.
Recession ? yes, but we are still loaded as a nation
That's why we're 175 billion in debt?
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If we werent good for it no one would lend it to us would they
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Apparently the UK's credit rating is excellent. Cant see what thats got to do with anything, in fact I dont give a hoot what our credit rating is like, but I heard that a couple of days ago on the telly.
I also heard on the telly that a cat in Portsmouth was found on a ferry going to Spain :-\
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Were all warm, fed and getting fat, what else do we need.
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If we werent good for it no one would lend it to us would they
A "loaded" nation doesn't have to "borrow" 175 billion!
Britain isn't great anymore, it's been gradually stripped of most of the things that made it once great!
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Manufacturing isnt dead, Britain is still the 6th biggest manufacturer in the world.
Recession ? yes, but we are still loaded as a nation
That's why we're 175 billion in debt?
BP is just one company and its sales figures per year are about that, or to give you other perspective BP sales figures alone are 3 times the GDP of New Zealand.
Another perspective 175 Billion would be like the typical home owner having less than 6 months or less than 6 payments before they pay there home mortgage off. That would make most people happy.
Doesn’t sounds so much now.
A loaded nation would not be 175 billion in debt no matter how you spin it!
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Were all warm, fed and getting fat, what else do we need.
I need to lose some weight ???
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No spin macmac USA had 18 times our deficit at one point. But the way to view these figures is as a percentage of the countries GDP the UK is by now probably approaching £2 trillion GDP, so do the math.
Don't be fooled into comparing others, that's the governments job. The only maths I see is being 175 billion in debt!
So, if this country is loaded, why, at this moment in time is it in so much debt? Surly if it was loaded it wouldn't need to borrow that money?
I predicted this would happen 3 to 4 years ago & I predict it will be at least 10 years before it recovers.
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Recession my arse. ;D
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Recession my arse. ;D
Shhhhhhhhhh ::)
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they need to stop wastin all the cash goin to war for no reason with other countries!
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Were all warm, fed and getting fat, what else do we need.
sex :D :D
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all your talk about bp is not going to help; lets face it when oil runs out them
bp esso ect will be worthless .
we are in the crap at the mo had a reasnoble summer but this could be turning into
our winter of discontent' on the other hand picked up two jobs this week so
allways look on bright side of life ;D
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Most countries have a deficit, very few have a large surplus of cash Japan being the exception but that amount is still relatively small even comparing it to itself.
Besides if the Government sold BP they could pay the deficit off put the change in the bank so the UK will have a huge surplus, and who ever buys BP will have to charge us less for the fuel especially for our vehicles because of OPEC.
This stuff is easy; don’t know what’s up with the politicians, oh yes I remember now. ;D
That may be true Ewan, but do you, like me, wonder who the hell they are borrowing all that money from?
If I was starting out right now, this is what I would do.
I would advertise a dial a clean service, yes you would still pick up regulars, but I think there is a niche market for a clean when you want service.
I wouldn't want someone doing it in my area, because I know that many of my customers would be happy if they only had them cleaned every three months, or whenever they thought the windows really needed it, at least 10% of my customers are not glad to see me, the faces on some of them when I knock for my money is like a smacked bum.
Of course, a dial a clean service would need to command a premium price, I bet you would get it too.
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It seems that you all forgot to mention that your Language meaning (ENGLISH) is bringing billions and billions of £££££ to this country, every day , don’t worry what politicians tell you about this country is in recession , its all hype.
This country is very rich and not many people know it. ;)
Regards,
Bosh
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u can clean windows with 2 cloths ste!its called "ragging".thats what all wc used to do before mop/squeegys back in the early 90s!i damp scrim little openers then polish with dry microfibre.they come up great!mop/squeegy everything else.i use the same "ragging" techniques on leaded and georgian if they are a regular 4 weekly clean.
regards dazmond
no no no daz, this was not as you describe mate, this was to old dirty cloths. when i first moved into my new house the old window cleaner just turned up and cleaned my windows without asking, i let him as i thought 'agh well lets see how good he is', he used the same technique on my leaded windows and they looked crap afterwards. no scrims just old cloths that you would use for ledges
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Lol i was thinking that as well ewan, think you could end up working all week doing one of cleans and be busy, but think you would need a min charge which is good as you could charge more i really think dai has opened an opportunity for us all there
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Just watch this and you wont have any more worry in life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI7RIH7iGkc
Regard
Bosh :)
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I find your way of thinking odd Boshravie. You appear to be trying to make out that giving to charity is good, but then stipulate that if you can sort out money issues you wont have any worries in life.
Life is far more than just money.
Are you just shallow or a good samaritan?
You have two very different and conflicting views.
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UK and USA borrowing money from China, India and Swiss, as(at the moment) they have more cash than anybody else
Switzerland has more gold reserves than any other country in the world and they will never be in recession
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UK and USA borrowing money from China, India and Swiss, as(at the moment) they have more cash than anybody else
Switzerland has more gold reserves than any other country in the world and they will never be in recession
Where do you get your info from mate?
The Swiss have 38.15 billion worth of gold reserves.
USA has 298.4 billions worth.
That's according to CNBC anyway.