Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: josephus on June 10, 2005, 07:40:05 pm
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hi
i went to a firm in belfast that makes up chemicals. they know thier stuff.
i took the safety data sheet for prochem crystal green and a sample. to check if they could make a cheaper alternative.
they ran it through a bunch of tests and the result ?
its Daz they said.
"if you dont need the fragrance, get daz instead. it has optical brighteners. it has antifaoming qualities"
get Daz.
im a bit shocked to be honest.
any thoughts ?
josephus
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im a bit shocked as well. but is daz any cheaper,
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Own Brand works out cheaper, but use only Biological 8) 8) 8).
NETTO NETTO NETTO.
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a point to remember is that washing powders are designed to work over a short period of time & carpet cleaning chems are designed to work instantly.
saying that
the major players in the washing powed industry spend thousands & thousands of pounds developing the best stain removing agents.
Lee G
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Josephus,
What A stupid suggestion! Of course all detergents are based on surfactant action, even soaps. However to suggest that all detergents are the same is ridiculous, and any test would show that a detergent is a detergent. What they are saying is not just if you dont need the fragrence, but if you dont need ALL the other aditives that makes products like Prochems Crystal Green, the great product that it is. All chocolates derive from the cocoa bean, but there is no way that all chocolate is the same product. What a stupid comparrison.
Dave.
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>>chocolates derive from the cocoa bean, but there is no way that all chocolate is the same product.<<
Uuuummmmmm chocolate........ ;)
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Whilst crystal green is an excellent detergent, I can't for the life of me believe why anyone would buy it when there are far better chems available, and that disolve in cold water, and dont cause the same resoiling probs as cg does.imo.
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Josephus
Any chance you could take some microsplitters down there!
Where's Doug Holloway when you need him. He was a chemist.
Regards Michel
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Hi Guys,
I've always believed that CC chems were based on laundary products, when you see the volumes and R&D budget its highly likely.
Be very careful in using washing powders as many contain bleaches and will fade the colours.
Also be very careful around enzymes in these powders as they are erncapsulated to allow them to be rinsed out more effectively , you will just not be able to do thus with a CC machine.
As for microsplitters I believe these are the phosphate part of washing powders , with the detergent , wetting action replaced by agitation.
Josephus, it would be interesting if you were to take some Ms to the testers.
Glynn,What do you consider to be the best detergent.
Cheers,
Doug
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Josephus
CRYSTAL GREEN IS NOT DAZ!
I trust you haven't ordered anything from these people yet. Do you you really use that much of it that you need to get someone to 'make you a cheaper alternative'
I'd also suggest that those who have resoiling problems with it aren't using it properly.
Regards
Mike
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correct Mike i use it all the time and have never had a problem with resoiling.And yes you must be using obscene amounts if you feel it nessercery to try and get it cheaper.
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Agree with Mikes comment about correct method of use.
An opportunity, perhaps to offer enhanced product guide or product training to C / C s who might be new to the biz' or confused by all of the conflicting comments arguments.......
happy days
r m
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wow
im humbled. no ashamed.
ok seriously. i love exspress cleaning, but in NIreland i pay big money for my chemicals, and i think its worth looking into substitutes.
i have a tiny bit made up, and im going to test it on my own carpets.
i do a lot of badly solied carpets in nightclubs, so its worth finding alternatives for me.
and thanks to whoever changed my subject line to the current one. much better.
josephus
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is it only me who sees this topic as a little bit unbelievable ::)
Joseph are you saying you paid a chemical analysis company to break down the ingrediants of Crystal green and they gave a flippent answer such as 'its daz'
you then got them to make you up a small batch to try out yourself ::) how much did that cost?
sorry mate but sounds like waffle to me! perhaps you could give us some more details
Mike
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Remember the posts concerning Bait & Switch, werent they using washing powder. Itys common knowledge among Pro CCs that commercial washing powder is commonly used by Splash & Dash, with a serious resoiling problem. Why go there, stick to the Pro stuff.
As for Crystal Green, it is among my arsenal of solutions, Ive never encountered any rapid resoiling problems with it. I find it particularly useful when a more potent detergent is required.
Dave.
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i think that if glynn is encountering rapid resoiling due to the use of crystal green,he should book him self on a carpet cleaning course & learn how to clean carpets to a professional standard.
its people like him using poor quality cleaning electric cleaning units without the proper training,that give other respectable business men/women a BAD name.
infact BAN HIM FROM THIS SITE until he knows how to clean carpets.
Lee G
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See I'm not banned yet Lee, ;)
its a good job people know your joking Lee, should I tell them you buy Lidl's cheapest washing powder in bulk for carpet cleaning, for your premium rate service.
Doug,
I prefer HM hyrdadri.
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SORRY GLYNN
as most people on this board know myself & glynn are good chums,for those that don,t know us,i would like to point out that the post i made was only a jest between friends.
Lee g
PS
you can stop calling me now glynn ;)
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funny thing is i decided to try a general daily washing powder on my own front room, surprised me. it came out well. in fact it must have more optical brightners in than some cc powder. i hope my carpet does not rot, will let you know :-*
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If you want to reduce costs try Craftex products, or do like i do carry different powders for different levels of soiling. I use double clean for heavily solied carpets like restaurants etc, and dry blend for lightly soiled jobs, houses etc.
Cfraftex make a reasonable range of products that are cheaper than prochem, spend over £50.00 and carrage is free.
John.
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I heartily agree nearly all the chemicals i use are Craftex
and it isn't £50, any box of 4 bottles or tub of powder ia free delivery.
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dear Mike halliday.
i went to a big company in Belfast that makes laundry chemicals for Tesco and others.
i know the owner a wee bit and he offered to look at my stuff. i think it was more for his own interest to see if he could make it up and flog it to CCs
cheers
josephus
ps they reckon Crystal green costs 4 quid a tub to make.
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Then you have got to add profit suppliers profit research costs marketing costs etc.
My son is a research chemist and when I asked him to do a similiar exersise he said do not be silly.
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ps they reckon Crystal green costs 4 quid a tub to make.
So it is even cheaper than the real thing (Daz that is!) ::)
Anyway, while I'm as dubious about this statement as their first one, I heard it only costs pennies to clean carpets. For every £100 you charge for carpet cleaning how much Crystal Green would you use?
Regards
Mike
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Joe
Where are you buying your chemicals from that there so expensive? USA?
If chemcial costs are such a major concern for you then you need to put your prices up big time. I'd be more concerned about van costs or even phone costs than chemical costs.
Mark
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Hi ,
You could probably get away with a coloureds,non bio washing powder , but remember your customer may be familiar with the smell , so even if you put it an unmarked container the cleverer ones will suss you.
It also sets you as an unprofessional cleaner.
I agree about chemical costs being a small part of expenses and if substituting inferior chemical loses you just one job , say £80 , thats your yearly saving gone.
Cheers,
Doug
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i must agree that cost of prduct is negligible. but savings can be made with wise purchasing. usually by in bigger quantities, all the wholesalers dicount . and at the end of the day they take the main risk in what goes into product
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OMO is the one expressly in shopping baskets. ;D ;D
Len
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I cant believe how this topic has progressed to the point where it is almost being suggested that using washing powder as an alternative to professional detergents is okay. Doesnt washing powder detergent have to be rinsed and rinsed with plain water. Clearly unless you are going to do this over and over again as a seperate operation, its not viable. if you do clean carpet with washing powder, without the additional further rinses, how do you think the carpet will dry - try it, wash an item of clothing but dont bother rinsing it, see how it feels when dry, greasy, stiff, horrible. Also if you put a washing powder solution through your machine, it won't be long before your pump and valves and jets get clogged up.
Dave.
Washed out, over and out!
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Took a long time before someone stated that.
Clean carpets with washing powder, only for cowboys.
crystal green is daz, I don't think so.
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for the record
i never equated the two
i never suggested using washing powder instead of crystal green.
i am relaying a message i received. i have NEVER used cheaper substitutes. i leave every customer happy, or i dont charge them a penny.
i simply asked a question from people i regard as experts in a field i dabble in.
i am interested in the chemistry behind the cleaner i buy i think the last tub i bought cost 45 quid, so why not try to lower costs. while dave lee
said,,,
josephus,
What A stupid suggestion! Of course all detergents are based on surfactant action, even soaps. However to suggest that all detergents are the same is ridiculous, and any test would show that a detergent is a detergent. What they are saying is not just if you dont need the fragrence, but if you dont need ALL the other aditives that makes products like Prochems Crystal Green, the great product that it is. All chocolates derive from the cocoa bean, but there is no way that all chocolate is the same product. What a stupid comparrison.
i really appreciate the insults by the way.
and mike halliday said,,,
is it only me who sees this topic as a little bit unbelievable
Joseph are you saying you paid a chemical analysis company to break down the ingrediants of Crystal green and they gave a flippent answer such as 'its daz'
you then got them to make you up a small batch to try out yourself how much did that cost?
sorry mate but sounds like waffle to me! perhaps you could give us some more details
Mike
basically hes saying im a liar.
i dont waste my time telling stories to businessmen. i am telling you what i was told. im too keen on getting work to waste time telling tales here.
i reckon the slagging is out of order. to all others thanks ill stick with CC chemicals. i am seeking advice not hecklers, and if you know better, tell me. but dont pretend im some low brow splash and dash cleaner who lets the side down.
josephus
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Josephus
So sad all the negative responses you have received! ;D Never mind tomorrows an other day! Can’t wait till tomorrow and note what’s on top of the shopping trolley a wink is as good as nod! Very laid back Len
Len
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;D carefull mate.
if anybody sees you sticking up for me theyll be round and paint SPLASH AND DASH MERCHANT on your van in scarlet letters !!
cheers
josephus
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i see mikes reply had vanished. boy the moderaters are good round here!
perhaps its best this thread is gone too,.
josephus
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Joseph, I deleted it myself :o :o after reading it I thought it might be taken the wrong way.
i like to see these forums the same as a group of carpet cleaners gathered round a table in a pub, all having a good laugh :) nothing I say is meant to be insulting, i just speak my mind.
I call you a lying git then you tell me to go fornacate myself then we just forget it and have another beer :D
Do you believe everything you read on this forum? if not then you believe someone is telling porkies, but you just don't say anything, I do
Mike
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josephus, stimulaing contreversial. entertaining. and very interesting. i think a good topic. food for thought.well done ro
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well I think we should all switch to surf because it say's on the box "it removes 99%of all stains" ::)
john
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Josephus
Can’t see where I’m sticking up for you! Where did I mention carpet cleaning? Certain brand names have other meanings in shopping stores!
Don’t have a van I run out an Austin a40 the first hatchback! And it needs a paint job!
Len
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thanks guys
if you think this topic raises questions wait till you see my next ones,, ;)
BEER STAINS, is sucking the shag pile the best way to remove them ?
AIR MOVERS, is it cheaper to hire the unemployed to blow on my carpets ?
and in the window cleaners forum,
DE IONISING RESIN, is it just crumbled up rich tea biscuits ?
looking forward to more of the same
josephus
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read half way through this post then got bored
If you are having to save money on the products you use, increase your prices!!
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Crystal Green is brill! I love it, dissolves well (even in cold water), doesn't resoil (unless not used properly). If there is a better powder I haven't come accross it in over 20 yrs!
Alistair (Blackpool)
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this raises good questions about detergents anionic. non ionic, and cationic. what are they best suited to? i use sodium percarbonate additives from the car boot sale(laundry products) this is a good money saver and very effective. what are peoples views on percarbonate boosters. ps any slagging off will be laughed at.
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i dont know what a perca whotsy is. but ill try it what would sherlock ask for ???r
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Josephus,
I was not having a go at you, just at what you said. What did you expect, after all you were telling me (and others) that we had been using Daz for years. What next, Prochems Solvall is in fact White Spirit?
Dave.
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Add some comfort and its safe on wool ;D