Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Martin ccs on November 29, 2009, 11:16:07 am
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havent been on here long and dont know if i should join the guild, what do you current guild members say?
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depends on wat u want from it,wat direction u are taking ur business as in commercial domestic,there is a lot of good info on a lot of these forums there some bad advise to so use ur gut instinct,
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My viewpoint is hardly impartial, so I won't say much,..
But you will get some nice shiny stickers for your van, and a nice official member cert, plus all the logo's etc that you can use on your website & stationary.
If you pre-register before 31st December you'll automatically be in with a chance to win an SLX-22 (1st prize) a website (2nd Prize) or 12 months inclusinon in the www.windowwashers.co.uk directory (3rd prize).
Not bad for £20 per year IMO!
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My viewpoint is hardly impartial, so I won't say much,..
But you will get some nice shiny stickers for your van, and a nice official member cert, plus all the logo's etc that you can use on your website & stationary.
If you pre-register before 31st December you'll automatically be in with a chance to win an SLX-22 (1st prize) a website (2nd Prize) or 12 months inclusinon in the www.windowwashers.co.uk directory (3rd prize).
Not bad for £20 per year IMO!
thats a great offer !! and where should i go to be able to have the chance of winning one of these fantastic prizes and joining this brilliant organisation ;D ;D
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Just pop over to www.mgwc.org and pre-register today for 2010! :)
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My viewpoint is hardly impartial, so I won't say much,..
But you will get some nice shiny stickers for your van, and a nice official member cert, plus all the logo's etc that you can use on your website & stationary.
If you pre-register before 31st December you'll automatically be in with a chance to win an SLX-22 (1st prize) a website (2nd Prize) or 12 months inclusinon in the www.windowwashers.co.uk directory (3rd prize).
Not bad for £20 per year IMO!
And what do you get for your 2nd 3rd 4th year ect ???
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What is the guild?.
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What is the guild?.
http://www.mgwc.org/
The Master Guild of Window Cleaners is a non-profit organisation founded by window cleaners, for window cleaners.
The Guild is not a trade association, but rather a community based professional support group. The Guild is run and maintained on a voluntary basis.
The Guild aims to benefit cleaners and their clients alike, by raising standards, improving work practices, ensuring its members are adequately insured and always aware of the health and safety challenges that face them
spacer
It is the aim of the Master Guild of Window Cleaners to:
• Promote improved working practices and conditions for all window cleaners.
• To promote professional conduct by our members at all times.
• To ensure that our members are adequately insured for your protection.
• To help customers make a better choice when choosing a cleaner.
• To promote higher standards of health and safety.
• To provide information and help to window cleaners.
• To furnish new and up to date cleaning and safety methods to our members.
• To highlight the need for cleaners to adapt to economic and architectural challenges.
• To promote the need to exceed our customers expectations.
• To raise standards within the industry.
Window Cleaning
FAQ.
Q. What is a Guild?
A. A Guild is an association of people with similar interests or pursuits.
Q. Is the Master Guild of Window Cleaners a trade association?
A. No. Trade associations are governed by complex and restrictive legislation in many countries, and it is therefore near impossible to have a single trade association that can work on an international level. A Guild is a more informal association (or club), which can work freely with members from all over the globe.
Q. How is the Guild run?
A. The Guild is run by window cleaners, for the benefit of window cleaners. All work is done on a voluntary basis, and is unpaid.
Q. Why are the member fee's so low?
A. The Guild was designed from the very beginning to run at the lowest possible cost to its members. The Guild does not have a dedicated call center, or offices. As much communication as possible is carried out via e-mail to reduce phone costs, and the admin staff work on a voluntary basis.
Q. Who does the day to day work running the Guild?
A. The Guild admin core team consists of voluntary members who are long established window cleaners and are well known moderators/admin on various window cleaning forums. A "meet the admin" page will be posted shortly with a short biography and more info about each member of the team.
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why are the fees so low ?
you get what you pay for
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why are the fees so low ?
you get what you pay for
What do you get if you join the Fed and how much is that these days?
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why you asking me ?
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why you asking me ?
I dunno! Why are you so defensive?
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I thought it was a loaded question
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why are the fees so low ?
you get what you pay for
So, osaying you don't get much Dave.??
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I thought it was a loaded question
Not at all! But now you've got me thinking! ;D Were you up for getting onto the Fed committee at some stage a while back?
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I thought it was a loaded question
Not at all! But now you've got me thinking! ;D Were you up for getting onto the Fed committee at some stage a while back?
Only in certain peoples imagination
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why are the fees so low ?
you get what you pay for
So, osaying you don't get much Dave.??
same as anytthing in this world you get what you pay for, nothing more.
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My viewpoint is hardly impartial, so I won't say much,..
But you will get some nice shiny stickers for your van, and a nice official member cert, plus all the logo's etc that you can use on your website & stationary.
If you pre-register before 31st December you'll automatically be in with a chance to win an SLX-22 (1st prize) a website (2nd Prize) or 12 months inclusinon in the www.windowwashers.co.uk directory (3rd prize).
Not bad for £20 per year IMO!
And what do you get for your 2nd 3rd 4th year ect ???
the same again..
but i presume additional benefits as they come and different prize draws ;D
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I thought it was a loaded question
Not at all! But now you've got me thinking! ;D Were you up for getting onto the Fed committee at some stage a while back?
Only in certain peoples imagination
;D It wasn't a loaded question; honest! But I remember looking at the Fed and really all I would want from them is the use of their logo for my stationery; and the Feds is a logo no-one outside of the window cleaning community really recognises. I only know there's a Federation of Window Cleaners because I use the internet and frequent a window cleaning forum!
So if I wanted a logo, I may as well just use the Guild's logo, like me; it's cheap! ;D
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And what do you get for your 2nd 3rd 4th year ect ???
The member benefits are constantly improving. As membership numbers grow we're in a better position to ask for cheeky discounts from suppliers, insurers etc etc.
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I thought it was a loaded question
Not at all! But now you've got me thinking! ;D Were you up for getting onto the Fed committee at some stage a while back?
Only in certain peoples imagination
;D It wasn't a loaded question; honest! But I remember looking at the Fed and really all I would want from them is the use of their logo for my stationery; and the Feds is a logo no-one outside of the window cleaning community really recognises. I only know there's a Federation of Window Cleaners because I use the internet and frequent a window cleaning forum!
So if I wanted a logo, I may as well just use the Guild's logo, like me; it's cheap! ;D
Depends what you want out of window cleaning really.
It doesnt matter if managers havent heard of the fwc, your cert will tell them its a government recognised trade association when you present it with your quotation pack.
A question you see on Tender forms etc, more and more of is " what trade associations do you belong to ?
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Cheers, Dave, so there we have it. I've never seen a 'real' tender form before, and if I'm ever asked that question I'll stick down FWC and apply for membership straight away.
Until then I'll save my money; the FWC is obviously just for the big boys and a waste of time for us normal shiners.
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Tosh,.. if you join the Guild before the 31st of December you're in with a chance to win a website,.... ;)
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Cheers, Dave, so there we have it. I've never seen a 'real' tender form before, and if I'm ever asked that question I'll stick down FWC straight away.
its what other do ;)
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Dave, does the fact that the fed is better (in your opinion) make the Guild a bad idea?
I dont understand your antipathy towards it, I can of course understand that you yourself might not be interested in joining, thats everyone's perogotive, but why do you feel the need to be outwardly negative about it? Most people who dismiss something as not useful, move on and ignore it. I dont have a use for the FED at the moment (nothing against it, just not for me right now) but I am not on here every time I see it mentioned to shoot it down.
It is begining to look like you have personal issues with someone or some other agenda because from reading your other posts over the last few years you do not usually come across as someone who would be against something for the sake of it.
Its £20 for some stickers and logos at the moment, if you never got anything else from it, its still not exactly a rip off is it.
Whats the big issue?
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bluez
Its exactly that £20 for some stickers and logo's,
No issue with it as long as it doesnt pretend to be something its not.
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bluez
Its exactly that £20 for some stickers and logo's,
No issue with it as long as it doesnt pretend to be something its not.
I thought what the Guild was is quoted very eloquently in reply 7 of this thread. What do you think we are "Pretending" to be cranky Dave?
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Cramky, Me ? never
Promote improved working practices and conditions for all window cleaners.
• To promote professional conduct by our members at all times.
• To ensure that our members are adequately insured for your protection.
• To help customers make a better choice when choosing a cleaner.
• To promote higher standards of health and safety.
• To provide information and help to window cleaners.
• To furnish new and up to date cleaning and safety methods to our members.
• To highlight the need for cleaners to adapt to economic and architectural challenges.
• To promote the need to exceed our customers expectations.
• To raise standards within the industry.
Nat
To me its all words, no substance,
Please explain how you are raising standards in the industry ? Do you liaise with the hse etc
do you provide your members with hse advice ? apart from advising how you climb over balconies.
Do you attend hse meetings to discuss the way forward in the industry ?
Do you distribute hse guidance leaflets ?
To me, all I can see is you give £20.00, get some stickers, a logo and get a bit of dodgy advice about industry best practice.
I might be wrong, but thats the way i see it
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To me, all I can see is you give £20.00, get some stickers, a logo and get a bit of dodgy advice about industry best practice.
I might be wrong, but thats the way i see it
thats the way i see it also
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bluez
Its exactly that £20 for some stickers and logo's,
No issue with it as long as it doesnt pretend to be something its not.
Dave, I would describe where the Guild is at as "Aspirational" as opposed to "Pretence" at present, and while I share your misgiving about its ability to reach its lofty aspirations based on the financial contributions of its members I say give a guy an even break. All of our businesses have at some point been aspirational as opposed to substantial at some point or other, that didnt make us pretenders.
The Guilds aspirations have not been fulfilled as of yet and may never be, but in the interest of fairness maybe some encouragement to guys who are trying to do something that has little or no benifit to themselves (unless their are some ego trips involved, not seen any evidence of that yet) would be better than just knocking it.
Why dont you stump up £20 and make your points constructive from inside the tent instead of picking at it from outside. I am sure the Guild would welcome the assistance of your input and if it wasnt moving in the right way for you then dont renew your Fee next year.
This year will be a big challange for the Guild, 1st year is honeymoon now it needs to begin to produce some substance to match the Words as you rightly point out.
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bluez
I never set out to put the guild down, they make claims that i and many others can see through, and i just argue the point, which usually results in someone taking offence. Then i get roped in explaining further.
I can't see Nat's reply to the above questions
Read my first reply to this post
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Dave
Thats fair enough, maybe I have missed some of those posts, it does read a bit like you are very against it recently though.
I am a member but I am not involved in its running in any way, it does appear to me to be a good idea which is why I paid my money, of course there are issues like in any group particularly a new one but if it achieves 20% of what it set out to do it would be a positive thing for its members.
I wont post any more on it dont want to bore anyone :)
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Dave
Thats fair enough, maybe I have missed some of those posts, it does read a bit like you are very against it recently though.
I am a member but I am not involved in its running in any way, it does appear to me to be a good idea which is why I paid my money, of course there are issues like in any group particularly a new one but if it achieves 20% of what it set out to do it would be a positive thing for its members.
I wont post any more on it dont want to bore anyone :)
Dont be a wally.. get commenting we need some DECENT advise and discussion posts. To much twaddle being posted on CIU lately.
This is not the forum for real proper advise anymore, just simple chat.
Long gone are the days when experienced industry types used to come on here and "help"
Nowadays because of all the flaming against them (ok they weren't exactly saints either but got dragged into personal attacks on them), they have long since disappeared.
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Nat
To me its all words, no substance,
Please explain how you are raising standards in the industry ? Do you liaise with the hse etc We aim to raise standards from the ground up, starting with the simple things like encouraging all in the industry to carry adequate insurance, and have a safety conscious mindset. As for specific health and safety issues, we have plans this year to liaise with more qualified people and see what specific ways we can promote safety within the confines of our association. As you yourself have pointed out, giving the wrong advice could leave us liable, so we have to tread carefully here and this means its a slow process
do you provide your members with hse advice ? apart from advising how you climb over balconies. Another personal dig Cranky Dave? I was wrong & I admitted it. There is a position available in Guild admin for someone with serious H&S qualifications to help where the rest of us simply aren't qualified (Yet)
Do you attend hse meetings to discuss the way forward in the industry ? I've yet to find a specific HSA meeting/course for our industry in Ireland,.. but I have attended training and meetings for related industries. My Training personally isn't nearly what I'd like it to be,.. But I do hope to improve on it soon
Do you distribute hse guidance leaflets ? No,.. but there are links to some relevant ones on the Guild website
To me, all I can see is you give £20.00, get some stickers, a logo and get a bit of dodgy advice about industry best practice.Fair enough. But even those who know best and never give dodgy advice occasionally fall off their ladder,.... ::)
I might be wrong, but thats the way i see it Like Bluez said, The guild is in its infancy. We aspire to a lot more!
Working on a limited budget with only volunteer labour isn't the fastest way to get things done though,.. but we believe that helping the industry means helping ALL in the industry, and that means making the Guild accesible to all & keeping fee's as low as possible,.. many of the guys here wouldn't dream of paying the amount that the FED charges per annum, and so are left out in the cold.
Good things take time though,....
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Yes you should join andf then you be will be a man my son 8)
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We pay nothing for this forum, and we get Dave
you get what you pay for
So he has a point ;D
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Is it so bad that i fell, does that give you great satisfaction as your smiley indicates.
What HSe advice do i give ? apart from directing people to the hse site, or chipping in whenever there is mis-information flying around.
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don't get the connection, so, I'll take it that is aimed at some other post.
Me? I have a world of sympathy for anyone that does them self a mischief coming off ladders, including your good self.
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not that I would want anything bad to happen to you under other conditions
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Boo
It wasnt aimed at you,
i dont do sympathy though, i fell, so thats tough i have to get on with it.
Just call m e a clumsy great oaf instead
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anyway back to the original question.
the Guild gives good advertising, it ranks high on google. it is trying to make something of itself.
Little acorns and all that ;D
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Little acorn, fantastic description.
If they said that from the beginning .................................
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little acorns ;)
anyways i am glad to hear that you are considering joining the guild dave...we could do with someone of your stature on the guild.......i am trying to think what role you could take up.....health and safety liason officer might be available when you are feeling better....LOL.....someone had to say it. :D ( sorry mate ) ::)
maybe you can help me with a few questions dave....i am asking you this as you seem to know your stuff ;)
how many members does the fed have?
how many did they start with?
how did they begin the long drawn out process of recruiting their members?
did they have teething troubles?
were there skeptics of the fed when it first started?
how did they deal with those skeptics?
i have other questions dave, but they can wait 8)
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Scrimmy
I dont have a clue to any of the above ?
Nothing to do with me, all i know is that they are a government recognised bona fide trade association.
Why put the onus on me, i don't claim to be something i am not.
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Lets face it in reality, the guild is a group of window cleaners formed to present some unity and advice to others. To be a member you need to be insured and licensed (where applicable). So it does represent a group of "professional" window cleaners.
You get some nice logos, you get a profile on the website and you get a certificate to show off to anyone you want to show it to. Yup thats about it..
Thats great for £20..
If the guild was to become something like the FWC to provide everything dave morris brought up earlier then the actual joining fee would by far more due to the running costs and expensive hotel outings and trade shows ::), and in reality people probably wont want to join for the high price.
Which is why the guild came about in the first place.
I used to be a member of the FWC, but I didn't feel it gave me or my customers anything extra that I had already or could find elsewhere cheaper. So for everything I wanted from the FWC, I have from the guild for far less money outlay.
I suspect this is probably the same for most other members.
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nice to see who comes up tops on the google rankings ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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nice to see who comes up tops on the google rankings ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
franky are u Irish?
the guild is only top in Ireland because its well seo'd and is on a Irish IP.
the guild is no where in the UK on google, and the FWC is pretty much top.
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please dont say iam irish,thats insulting all them good lads over there ;D ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P
i didnt say who was top did i :o :o :o :o :o just asked.
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i know that google rankings are significant.......the fed are as dave says a recognised trade association whereas the guild are still to get to that stage....the point i am making is that folk like dave dont seem to grasp the fact that even the fed had to start somewhere....they didnt get to where they are overnight.....and i reckon they had (and still do have) skeptics of the fed......a lot of the guys on here can afford the fed and thats great, but not everyone has the turnover that dave and the other big guys out there, and it comes across as saying that the 20 quid to join the guild is only for the plebs who havent got the big commercial jobs to justify joining the fed so they really should crawl under a rock somewhere.....that could be taken as snobbery.......but fortunately i can see through all that, i just think dave and those of that mindset (fed only boys) need to give the guild a break and let those who want to join it alone to make their own minds up 8)
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These are the member benifits for the FWC:
Representation of a government recognised Trade Association
A wise business investment with an independently run organisation
Risk Assessments/Method Statements & Policy Statement guidance
Free 24 hour Legal Advice Line
Nominated insurance broker to assist & help with Liability Insurance
Discounted Window Cleaning Equipment
Accredited Health & Safety Training courses for window cleaners
25% discount with Website Wizard
Discounted personalised work wear with Kingfisher
Free quarterly Trade Magazine "Window Talk"
Corporate advertising in Yellow Pages
Use of Logo thus highlighting professionalism & dedication
IOSH accredited Cleaning Windows Safely course - WFP & Ladders
Bi-annual Trade Show & Window Cleaning Competition
Group Accident financial assistance for Members & their employees
Personalised identity card and Membership certificate
Area membership Lists issued on request to Councils/Agencies etc.,
NVQ2 in Cleaning Building interiors, Windows & facade surfaces
Affiliations with; British Cleaning Council, Cleaning and Support Services Association, Asset Skills & close working relations with the HSE's Cleaning Industry Liaison Group.
From that list, much of which I could pick holes in, all I really would want is the use of the logo! I may as well pay the £20 and go with the Master Guild lot! I think the logo is better too.
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A few things i like from that list is
The trade show
The Mag, a bit pants sometimes but something to read in print.
Id cards The corporate Yellow pages ad
Accredited h@s trainining
The best line is "A Wise Business investment"
A couple of questions, forget the cost, that isnt even an excuse for window cleaners.
In a Two horse race which cert will help you to get you more work ?
Which cert is more likely to harm your business image ?
What does each tell your clients about you ?
Dave
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Dave, the vast majority of guys here won't have clients that know anything about the FWC. I guess the biggest contract I've ever had was a Hilton Hotel and they did make us jump through a few hoops and it was help from this forum that sorted out the risk and method statement and safety policy I needed, along with a few other ones. I wasn't asked if I was a member of a trade association.
I've also quoted for a massive posh golf course and hotel (restaraunts/bars/swimming pool/gym) and they didn't want to know either. OCS won that contract purely on price (I clean the windows of someone who works there who knows). They were nearly 50% cheaper than any other quote.
For the majority of us window cleaners, if we want a logo (which all the FWC would be for me), I'd just spend the £20 and go for the Guild.
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Tosh
only trying to help so i will leave it there,
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Maybe OCS know how to price correctly instead of just plucking a figure out of the air, maybe they instilled confidence by being very professional.
p.s
OCS are members of the FWC, they also have a seat on the board, maybe the guild could tempt a big hitter to give them more clout ?
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Dave!
Nat and the rest of them are trying, at least theyre being positive.
Your a grumpy old git, shut up and give it a break.
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Matt
Is that the best you can do.
Am i not allowed to join in an arguement ?
I am being positive.
I am trying to give people the benefit of my wisdom, time and time again people ask me how my biusiness does so well, part of that answer is to be affiliated with worthwhile organisations.
Not once have i attacked the Guild, you read it all wrong , start again from the beginning you rude man.
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your a big hitter DAVE
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Join in the arguement? who was arguing before you joined in?
As for being positive and not knocking the Guild, sorry, whos replying on your behalf then? Those painkillers can have a mind and mood altering effect if taken to excess.
Maybe the guild arent a worthwhile organisation at the moment, and you have suggested in your opinion how they can better improve themselves, but that isnt going to happen overnight.
As for me being rude. Is that any ruder than you telling me to put a sock in it in a previous thread??
You rude man.
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I am small fry.
Made a decent little business, but definately not a big hitter.
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which thread was that Matt ?
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Matt
I didnt start an arguement,, I simply answered the question
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Maybe OCS know how to price correctly instead of just plucking a figure out of the air, maybe they instilled confidence by being very professional.
p.s
OCS are members of the FWC, they also have a seat on the board, maybe the guild could tempt a big hitter to give them more clout ?
Dave through my experience with the larger companies, I know some of them enter extremely low quotes, just to get the job, as they have staff to pay, which are only on minimum wage.
I have lost out to larger companies in the past when they have quoted 50% less!
Matt
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which thread was that Matt ?
Looks like its disappeared.
It was a couple of weeks ago.
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MB
I lost out to OCS once even though they were 50% dearer, the company thought they would get a more professional service, I ended up getting the job back 12 months later though.
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I am small fry.
Made a decent little business, but definately not a big hitter.
who dyou know whose a big hitter , is there many of these ?
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I am small fry.
Made a decent little business, but definately not a big hitter.
who dyou know whose a big hitter , is there many of these ?
I can hit my tee shot over 280yds ;D
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I would say a big hitter would be on par with, Allclean or Grieg Avenue,
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grieg avinou has most of the big jobs up here....dunno if he has managed to break england yet though
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I am small fry.
Made a decent little business, but definately not a big hitter.
who dyou know whose a big hitter , is there many of these ?
I can hit my tee shot over 280yds ;D
Ive hit mine over 320 yards if only I could hit it staright ;D
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I am small fry.
Made a decent little business, but definately not a big hitter.
who dyou know whose a big hitter , is there many of these ?
I can hit my tee shot over 280yds ;D
Ive hit mine over 320 yards if only I could hit it staright ;D
i always said you were bent steve ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Why would you want to join the FWC? Most wfp guys must remember Newsnight when new Heath & Safety Legislation came in to effect, Newsnight ran a news item on wfp and trad, all to do with Health & Safety, and didn't the Chairman rubbish wfp...... as he said it wouldn't remove impacted bird matter???? I am happy with my British Window Cleaning Academy membership as I now know this has a bigger membership than the FWC so therefore when it comes down to negitating with authorities over new H&S Legislation and Government Bodies they will have the bigger say.
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Dave, the vast majority of guys here won't have clients that know anything about the FWC. I guess the biggest contract I've ever had was a Hilton Hotel and they did make us jump through a few hoops and it was help from this forum that sorted out the risk and method statement and safety policy I needed, along with a few other ones. I wasn't asked if I was a member of a trade association.
I've also quoted for a massive posh golf course and hotel (restaraunts/bars/swimming pool/gym) and they didn't want to know either. OCS won that contract purely on price (I clean the windows of someone who works there who knows). They were nearly 50% cheaper than any other quote.
For the majority of us window cleaners, if we want a logo (which all the FWC would be for me), I'd just spend the £20 and go for the Guild.
is that the manor tosh ? ? ? ?
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In the interest of saninity
Why dont you all join the trade association what is best for your buisness
The FWC currently acts on behalf of all window cleaners and as the qualified committee members to give the correct advice
The same people on here keep giving the FWC some crap(you would have to wonder why?)guild members
Why dont we learn from this and keep opinions to ones self
The FWC as never made a comment about the guild so why dont the guild just leave things alone
Bryan
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Bryan
I was looking forward to you getting the Glyn treatment, can't wait for the video.
I will tell them you are here.
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Dave
If they want to do that it will be up to them
Were as the post gone about Glyn
Bryan
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Why would you want to join the FWC? Most wfp guys must remember Newsnight when new Heath & Safety Legislation came in to effect, Newsnight ran a news item on wfp and trad, all to do with Health & Safety, and didn't the Chairman rubbish wfp...... as he said it wouldn't remove impacted bird matter????
Is this the video?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4230000/newsid_4231900/4231920.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1#
Brian,.. personally I think the FWC is a great organisation,.. I don't want to rubbish it at all. ANY association that aims to make our lives safer, easier & more professional cannot be a bad thing.
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Nat
You said
Brian,.. personally I think the FWC is a great organisation,.. I don't want to rubbish it at all. ANY association that aims to make our lives safer, easier & more professional cannot be a bad thing.
You have just proved the point by putting the news night link on as a post
What reason would you have to put the link on here?
I have said nothing about climbing out of cherry pickers,ladders are banned and only going to meetings in Ireland
Bryan
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You have just proved the point by putting the news night link on as a post
What reason would you have to put the link on here?
Does the FWC have a different viewpoint now?
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I was on that video, as was Ian Lancaster =, but he was on there twice once in colour and once in Black and White
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I still think it boils down to how much do you want to pay for a logo! ;D
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You have just proved the point by putting the news night link on as a post
What reason would you have to put the link on here?
Does the FWC have a different viewpoint now?
i think their viewpoint is still very valid, ok it does move birdmuck but i have yet to see wfp move paint etc their argument basically was that window cleaners should have a choice in equipment used for the job they are doing. Me personally was a bit disulusioned with the fed after the trade show as there was a bit on local telly with terry doing his speed record and it came across as a bit of a mickey take on window cleaners but as terry said at the time that was due to the way the bbc edited the piece, i just hope the fed keep on showing to the health and safety that in some instances ladders are still necassary and carry on highlighting the professionalism of our industry.
i will keep supporting the FWC as at the moment i dont see any other valid alternative
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havent been on here long and dont know if i should join the guild, what do you current guild members say?
Martin,
Has your question been answered? I'd like to hear what you think after reading through the post you started.
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The FWC currently acts on behalf of all window cleaners and as the qualified committee members to give the correct advice
The same people on here keep giving the FWC some crap(you would have to wonder why?)guild members
Bryan
Bryan
first off, i am not a member of the guild, why ? ? ? i just never fancied it
secondly, i am not a member of the FWC, why ? ? ? that shoddy business with that member asking questions and then having his membership renewal lost after asking questions about buying a building, it looked underhand, didnt committee members quit over that ? ? ? ? ( i know the answer, it has nothing to do with me, as i am not a member ::) )
oh and one of the FWC committee appearing on TV saying how rubbish WFP was and it didnt remove the bird mess, i had a few ask me about that, it made WFP look like it was 2nd class, thats hardly representing window cleaners ( oh and on that matter, you represent your members, not all window cleaners )
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Good evening Tweedledum and tweedledee
Do you phone each other before you turn up, or is it you watch the same TV ;D
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Good evening Tweedledum and tweedledee
Do you phone each other before you turn up, or is it you watch the same TV ;D
If that's the case, I'm tweedledee!
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Anyway, what's this about the Federation of Window Cleaners saying on BBC TV that WFP doesn't remove bird poo?
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Good evening Tweedledum and tweedledee
Do you phone each other before you turn up, or is it you watch the same TV ;D
just finished tea, a nice spicey massala tonight
i have just watched eastenders and corrie, we sky plus it, so watch it at any time ;)
thought i might pop on and see what can of worms needed opening tonight :P
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Looks like a huge can
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Looks like a huge can
no point in half measures ;)
its the truth why i will never join them, of course if they want to explain what happened and it was all a misunderstanding
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Hey I've just watched the link of the Federation of Window Cleaners saying that WFP doesn't remove bird poo...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4230000/newsid_4231900/4231920.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1#
£400 to join an organisation called the FWC that doesn't realise how to clean bird poo from windows with a WFP; what a laugh.
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no point in half measures ;)
Since we're Tweedledum and Tweedledee, are you friends with Bill 'n' Bob?
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Hey I've just watched the link of the Federation of Window Cleaners saying that WFP doesn't remove bird poo...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4230000/newsid_4231900/4231920.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1#
£400 to join an organisation called the FWC that doesn't realise how to clean bird poo from windows with a WFP; what a laugh.
to be honest its not a laugh, at the time is was potentially a very damaging item of news
representing me ? ? ? yea right ::) ::)
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no point in half measures ;)
Since we're Tweedledum and Tweedledee, are you friends with Bill 'n' Bob?
who ? ? ?? keep in mind i am only in my late 30's ;D ;D
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Matt
I would hate to upset you, chill man, its over, gone, desceased, snuffed it, no more. ;D
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Matt
I would hate to upset you, chill man, its over, gone, desceased, snuffed it, no more. ;D
i know something else like that
(http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2008/12/9_Kyoto_Protocol:_BBC_Continues_to_Flog_a_Dead_Parrot_files/shapeimage_2.jpg)
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Norweigan Blue
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Norweigan Blue
do you really want me to post some thing blue with Norwegians in it :P :P
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kanne du behage maling meg huset blåfarge
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You want a blue house? ???
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You want a blue house? ???
indeed, my ideal house colour if i ever moved to norway
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No.
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This thread has become completely pointless.
I was not aware that the fwc and the guild were in a competition for the hearts and minds of window cleaners.
Neither has achieved sufficiently to cliam to be anything particularly marvelous for window cleaners in general. If both ceased to exist as of this second, would it damage your business in any way?
Join 1, join both, join the local library does anyone really care?
Blue house for me as well :D
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You're right Ewan,.. The Guild and FWC aren't in the same league & don't have the same aims, so comparisons between them are a bit pointless.
One good thing has come from this thread,.. we're taking onboard Daves suggestions and have contacted the HSE to see how best to proceed in more actively promoting safety to our members. Even if we begin with just distributing HSE booklets about work at height & ladders etc its a step in the right direction.
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FWC has 10 times more member than the Guild. The membership income from those is 50 times that of the Guild. Just based on that alone I don’t think you can compare the two.
The Guild needs to find its own purpose rather than compete with the FWC in any way, maybe do things that the FWC doesn’t do!
I think you should increase your membership to at least £3 a month I might consider joining then Nathanael.
To the person who started this thread, joining the Guild isn’t a bad idea if you are just starting your window cleaning the chances are you will be cleaning “residential mostly” (Idea for you there Nat) and the Guild is perfectly suitable for that market. (Read the law regarding window cleaners Nat). So for £20 a year (which in my opinion should be £36) you can direct any potential customers to the MGWC website to give then an independent reference about you. ;D
But The BRITISH WINDOW CLEANING ACADAMEY has more members than both put together
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But The BRITISH WINDOW CLEANING ACADAMEY has more members than both put together. Sill going to join the Guild.
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Why do you say that? The fact is i have brought cheaper equipment and its turned out to be crap, and does not last as long. Let me guess your an Ionics Knocker. The answer to your question is yes i do buy Ionics equipment and I'm very happy with it.
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But The BRITISH WINDOW CLEANING ACADAMEY has more members than both put together. Sill going to join the Guild.
I think Craig mawlam is on the board of the FWC because of the BWCA. I don’t think it is the other way round.
Let me guess you buy a lot of Ionic’s equipment, even though they don’t make all the best window cleaning products, you would still buy there's because……… the BWCA course he went on told him they were the best
do i get a prize ;D
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No lol ;)
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havent been on here long and dont know if i should join the guild, what do you current guild members say?
There is not much point joining , i have recieved a sticker, and thats it. had nothing else.
despite being told on numerous occasions that i have recieved info packs etc, the fact is ...
i got a sticker.
So its up to you really , there seems to be a few people saying its good, but they are either.... pally pally... or have actually benefitted from it.
my opinion !
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No lol ;)
:(
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I've followed this thread with varying degrees of amusement and incredulity (sp).
I'm a new cleaner (started April) and I'm a member of the Guild. I don't wish to sound like an apologetic alcoholic - I joined because when I was doing my business set-up research it came across as a reputable organisation representing reputable window cleaners, it was a reasonable price to join, I believed I could justify my membership with my aims in service delivery and - most of all - I thought that if the sticker got me 1 job it was worth the price. Note that here in the UK I found the Guild's website, so it is visible.
I obviously also came across the Fed. I'm not a member of the Fed - why?
Well, to be honest I looked at their website and it looked rubbish, I means, really poor design wise. Their online shop was pants. I figured that if they can't be bothered to spend their members' subs on a descent public image then why pay their much higher subs just for the sticker. And heh, a sticker is a sticker. That's before a friend of mine - also a newbie - joined the Fed. He's still wondering what he got for his money...
Having done some training in Swindon i'm a member of the BWCA and feel that they are a credible (if Ionics heavy) choice too.
Since then i've had much support from Nat at the Guild and one or two other guys, with questions I had. I still don't regret not joining the Fed and maybe I will one day, if they'll have me after this. I'm sorry if dome of the personalities on here are commitee members of the Fed - it's not personal, just an observation from someone with no baggage. Take it in the spirit it's meant, please.
The upshot is, if my potential custies Google window cleaning I feel they are more likely to contact me via the Guild or BWCA that a listing on the Fed website. Like everything it's a business decision. To answer the guy who started the thread - yes, join the Guild. Nat and others will offer good advice, they are active on your behalf (even if it IS still in its infancy) and the stickers are good.
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the FWC is still stuck in the old days, it has a committee who are from that era where the window cleaner climbed up and down a ladder all day
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Matt
Times are a changing.
Some good guys on the FWC committee, in fact they are all down to earth guys, wish you could meet them
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do they ever try to encourage people to join?
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Matt
Times are a changing.
Some good guys on the FWC committee, in fact they are all down to earth guys, wish you could meet them
didnt a few try and change it a few years back and were out voted by the old guard ? ? ?
are these " times a changing lot" the same people as before, or are they new
i take your word for it though dave, as you have met them
havent seen Tweedledee tonight, have you ? ? ?
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no not seen him, under the thumb i think.
Long time has passed now with the FWC, they have had a bad patch, but coming on strong now, they have got a bit of new blood.
Trouble with the old new guys who got muscled out was they were mostly forum trolls who found a seat on the board and were soon found to be out of there depth.
You need dedication and commitment, most of them would of quit by now even if they would have changed things.
I have learnt a lot on my committee trials, seen it all, nothing about human nature suprises me anymore.
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But it still doesn't get away from the fact that FWC RUBBISHED WATER FED POLES. Ewan sorry mate i was on a Health Safety course last week were its stated as fact the BWCA has the most members and has now got more clout than the the old guard at the FWC.Thats why i joined. As for Ionics equipment i think its a matter of opinion, like i said earlier i brought other equipment from more than one supplier it was just not up to it. I now only buy my WFP related products from Ionics. I hope you go to the cleaning show, take look at Ionics new poles that will be lunched at the show.
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None will get you 25% off a new van or the same off of a new pole pole so i personally would join the one that gives value for money and readily available help and advice from its members. Imo opinion that seems to be The Guild.
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Yes mate they are showing a lot of new stuff (two new poles I think?). Totally agree with you about aluminum and such like. I have a pro 6 fitted into my Van so I produce my own water in the van overnight, at the moment it suits me. Static systems for me would be something for the future as the business grows. Yes you are totally right the BWCA is Ionics but what attracted me was the way it is all presented, the training center is very good and the quality of training is very good to. I have been on several causes now and on my last course I was talking to a fellow window cleaner who had brought a system from one of Ionics competitors who said to me there is now way he would pay the price at the time, he said to me it was the worst business decision he has made as the system he has it totally unreliable, goes through resin at a horrifying rate and was only £1,800 cheaper than a pro 5. Ionics obviously saw an opportunity to sell systems and train operatives to use wfp safely and also offer city in guilds and nvq's which I am not sure if the fwc can offer. I went to quote a commercial property and when they saw my bwca logo on the side of my van a comment was passed. Blimey window cleaners going back to school.
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Yes mate they are showing a lot of new stuff (two new poles I think?). Totally agree with you about aluminum and such like. I have a pro 6 fitted into my Van so I produce my own water in the van overnight, at the moment it suits me. Static systems for me would be something for the future as the business grows. Yes you are totally right the BWCA is Ionics but what attracted me was the way it is all presented, the training center is very good and the quality of training is very good to. I have been on several causes now and on my last course I was talking to a fellow window cleaner who had brought a system from one of Ionics competitors who said to me there is now way he would pay the price at the time, he said to me it was the worst business decision he has made as the system he has it totally unreliable, goes through resin at a horrifying rate and was only £1,800 cheaper than a pro 5. Ionics obviously saw an opportunity to sell systems and train operatives to use wfp safely and also offer city in guilds and nvq's which I am not sure if the fwc can offer. I went to quote a commercial property and when they saw my bwca logo on the side of my van a comment was passed. Blimey window cleaners going back to school.
Steve please dont take this the wrong way, its not a insult
you have been sold the ironics brand name, you mention you have been on a few BWCA courses, these courses are partly a sales pitch, yes you learn stuff, buts its ever so slanted to ironics, thus is becomes a brand you want, people feel safe with a brand they know, look at the sony PS3, the first year it came out it was rubbish, rubbish games and most knew it, it still sold well, why ? ? ? because people owned the PS2 and it felt safe
the complete method of cleaning windows is not hard
look at the parts
A VAN -- aslong as it will take the load, any van will do
A TANK -- most come from the same manufacturer anyway ( choose you size )
A PUMP -- also from 2 pump makers, sureflow and flowjet
RO UNIT -- a ro is a ro, it rejects the solids and gives you pure water, some have a slightly better rejection rate, but its nothing out of this world
HOSE -- loads of options
POLE -- likewise, its a personal choice
BRUSH -- see above
i am sure you are very happy with ironics, but we have many many options that are equal if not better than the gear they make
you mentioned your mate, he goes though resin quickly, does he have a RO system, is he flushing it often enough, does the filters need replacing, as for saving £1,800, when he has found the problem ( any of the above, he might just be using DI in a hard water, solution : get a RO unit ) that £1,800 will go a long long way
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No mate I don't take it as an insult at in fact I find your post constructive but what I would like to point out is that I had equipment before I went on the bwca courses and had already purchased my Ionics Pro 6. What I did was I went out with a very good friend and now working colleague who had brought an Ionics system and invited me out to see for myself what it was like. It was good enough for me that is why I purchased Ionics. I am happy with what I have got and in time when there is so much new equipment arriving on the market, if it is better than Ionics I will buy it but as to date I have not come across a job I cannot complete to a high standard using this equipment. Regards Stephen
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i dont understand why ionics is SOO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE! ::) ::)its fairly simple especially when DI ONLY.as i will be next year ;D ;D
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The FWC has a lot more clout than anyone, they are the only ones who are a government recognised trade association, they are the only ones the government will turn to discuss future legislation and reccomendations regarding window cleaners.
The government looks to the FWC to issue best practice, the government doesnt do it, it adopts the measures taken up by the FWC, this happens in every trade, hence why trade associations are a powerful force.
Look at most of the government literature for window cleaners, most of it has been written by the fwc and adopted by the government, or has been produced in conjunction with the fwc.
The BWCA although a fantastic organisation isnt a "Trade Association"
Dave
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The upshot is, if my potential custies Google window cleaning I feel they are more likely to contact me via the Guild or BWCA that a listing on the Fed website. Like everything it's a business decision. To answer the guy who started the thread - yes, join the Guild. Nat and others will offer good advice, they are active on your behalf (even if it IS still in its infancy) and the stickers are good.
Why join any of them?.... google window cleaner?? they are much more likely to find you under " "town .... window cleaner "...anyway.
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The upshot is, if my potential custies Google window cleaning I feel they are more likely to contact me via the Guild or BWCA that a listing on the Fed website. Like everything it's a business decision. To answer the guy who started the thread - yes, join the Guild. Nat and others will offer good advice, they are active on your behalf (even if it IS still in its infancy) and the stickers are good.
Why join any of them?.... google window cleaner?? they are much more likely to find you under " "town .... window cleaner "...anyway.
exactly
though i guess a secretary might be impressed with a few logo's on a site
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before I started as a window cleaner, i had never heard of the fed or the Guild, and these things only really matter on here ;D
that said, the Fed have never encouraged me to join and don't seem to take much interest on the forums or elsewhere.