Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ronnie paton on November 27, 2009, 10:07:40 pm
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i went to look at a kids clothes business it was for sale for 35k plus stock value.
now this business makes about 20k profit with a 200k turnover, there are other perks of the job like free designer kids cloths ect but my point is that is nearly double yearly profit so why do may believe our business is only worth 3x 4x monthly value??????
we all need to re-evalute our business value!!!!
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i went to look at a kids clothes business it was for sale for 35k plus stock value.
now this business makes about 20k profit with a 200k turnover, there are other perks of the job like free designer kids cloths ect but my point is that is nearly double yearly profit so why do may believe our business is only worth 3x 4x monthly value??????
we all need to re-evalute our business value!!!!
what was the stock value Ronnie ? and where abouts was it ?
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cant tell you that ian 8)
im quite intrested and dont wont any compeition.
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i went to look at a kids clothes business it was for sale for 35k plus stock value.
now this business makes about 20k profit with a 200k turnover, there are other perks of the job like free designer kids cloths ect but my point is that is nearly double yearly profit so why do may believe our business is only worth 3x 4x monthly value??????
we all need to re-evalute our business value!!!!
If you pay out the value at 12 months worth, then you lose a lot of customers, you will lose alot of money.
some people will use the change over to cancel, especially in this climate.
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Whatever you value your business for, if you want to sell it you have to find someone with the money to buy it. There lies the problem. Rounds are sold for peanuts because nobody has got the money to pay more.
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cant tell you that ian 8)
im quite intrested and dont wont any compeition.
Fair enough ;) ;D
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Whatever you value your business for, if you want to sell it you have to find someone with the money to buy it. There lies the problem. Rounds are sold for peanuts because nobody has got the money to pay more.
really i very much doubt it.
i have to say MB if you buy a round and lose half the customers your doing something wrong!
i run a good business that makes very good profit if some one was to buy it they wouldntlose any because they bought the company but it may be slightly different has it can be staff run.
but if you buy a business and are fully committed and do a quality job you will gao more than you lose FACT!!
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Whatever you value your business for, if you want to sell it you have to find someone with the money to buy it. There lies the problem. Rounds are sold for peanuts because nobody has got the money to pay more.
really i very much doubt it.
i have to say MB if you buy a round and lose half the customers your doing something wrong!
i run a good business that makes very good profit if some one was to buy it they wouldntlose any because they bought the company but it may be slightly different has it can be staff run.
but if you buy a business and are fully committed and do a quality job you will gao more than you lose FACT!!
Fair point Ronnie.
One thing also, its just customers that are usually for sale, no assets like equipment etc.
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MB but if you buy a cafe or garage or clths shop or computer shop or even a welders or accountants its all usually good willso why do we under estimate the value of a good PROFIT making business???
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LOL, the customers aren’t for sale ;D
So what do you buy when you buy the round then?
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LOL, the customers aren’t for sale ;D
So what do you buy when you buy the round then?
The tax man calls it 'goodwill'.
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MB but if you buy a cafe or garage or clths shop or computer shop or even a welders or accountants its all usually good willso why do we under estimate the value of a good PROFIT making business???
A friend of mine had a franchise of a pizza store that had a turn over of £250K per year, he sold it for £65K
For that the buyer got all the equipment
Ovens = £4,000
walk in Fridge = £6,000
Walk in freezer = £6,000
Computer system, = £4,000
and over £10,000 of other equipment needed to help run the store.
also out of the £250,000 anual turn over he had to pay out 11% in royalties.
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MB but if you buy a cafe or garage or clths shop or computer shop or even a welders or accountants its all usually good willso why do we under estimate the value of a good PROFIT making business???
A friend of mine had a franchise of a pizza store that had a turn over of £250K per year, he sold it for £65K
For that the buyer got all the equipment
Ovens = £4,000
walk in Fridge = £6,000
Walk in freezer = £6,000
Computer system, = £4,000
and over £10,000 of other equipment needed to help run the store.
also out of the £250,000 anual turn over he had to pay out 11% in royalties.
turnover looks good on paper!
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is that the cost new??
what was the profit has that is far more important than any amount of turnover
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LOL, the customers aren’t for sale ;D
So what do you buy when you buy the round then?
The tax man calls it 'goodwill'.
That’s the problem Tosh, if you ever deal with people who don’t understand the true value of goodwill, net profit as well all the other aspects.
It’s not rocket science, but it should be business.
(Buy a bucket get yourself a ladder and go window cleaning. ;D)
Explain yourself Ewan please
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LOL, the customers aren’t for sale ;D
So what do you buy when you buy the round then?
The tax man calls it 'goodwill'.
so you pay thousands for 'goodwill'
Thats why I would never buy a round. ;D
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MB iv bought good will an i would buy good will it makes good business sense has long has you kepp your clients /customers happy.
your pal that sold a pizza placesold good will, ye they got some equpment but with out the previous turnover(good will customers)they dont have a business.
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When I left the army I had a fairly large lump sum to either buy a round, or use it to live off while I built up a round. Being new to the area and not trusting any window cleaners I decided to build up a round and use the money to pay our living expenses.
It probably wasn't a good idea and on reflection I should've used the money to buy a round, because my lump sum ran out before I'd got enough decent work.
It does take some years to build up a decent round, so I'd go with Ronnie and say that we undervalue our work.
Imagine you purchase 100 residential customers who're priced well and compact; it would usually take years to build up that sort of work, so selling quality stuff like that at just 3 or 4 times the amount seems a bit daft.
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MB iv bought good will an i would buy good will it makes good business sense has long has you kepp your clients /customers happy.
your pal that sold a pizza placesold good will, ye they got some equpment but with out the previous turnover(good will customers)they dont have a business.
He bought it for £80K
He had no previous profit margins or turnover to work with as he was the first person to take out that franchise in that town.
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LOL, the customers aren’t for sale ;D
So what do you buy when you buy the round then?
The tax man calls it 'goodwill'.
That’s the problem Tosh, if you ever deal with people who don’t understand the true value of goodwill, net profit as well all the other aspects.
It’s not rocket science, but it should be business.
(Buy a bucket get yourself a ladder and go window cleaning. ;D)
Explain yourself Ewan please
You explain for me windowwashers.
Ewan I did not get the point you was trying to make m8, hence why I ask you to explain yourself, not having a dig, just asking :-*
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mbbut he sold and surely would have had a turnover.
he bought the franchise proberly cause of the sales men and is patter but the person who bought it off him had accounts and profits to look at.
When I left the army I had a fairly large lump sum to either buy a round, or use it to live off while I built up a round. Being new to the area and not trusting any window cleaners I decided to build up a round and use the money to pay our living expenses.
It probably wasn't a good idea and on reflection I should've used the money to buy a round, because my lump sum ran out before I'd got enough decent work.
It does take some years to build up a decent round, so I'd go with Ronnie and say that we undervalue our work.
Imagine you purchase 100 residential customers who're priced well and compact; it would usually take years to build up that sort of work, so selling quality stuff like that at just 3 or 4 times the amount seems a bit daft.
is that a first tosh ;D
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Exasperated.
Your argument is flawed MB, by all means sell yourself short, many will and have and continue to follow your lead.
Explain please Ewan?
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mbbut he sold and surely would have had a turnover.
he bought the franchise proberly cause of the sales men and is patter but the person who bought it off him had accounts and profits to look at.
When I left the army I had a fairly large lump sum to either buy a round, or use it to live off while I built up a round. Being new to the area and not trusting any window cleaners I decided to build up a round and use the money to pay our living expenses.
It probably wasn't a good idea and on reflection I should've used the money to buy a round, because my lump sum ran out before I'd got enough decent work.
It does take some years to build up a decent round, so I'd go with Ronnie and say that we undervalue our work.
Imagine you purchase 100 residential customers who're priced well and compact; it would usually take years to build up that sort of work, so selling quality stuff like that at just 3 or 4 times the amount seems a bit daft.
is that a first tosh ;D
HE didn't have any records to go on just the sales pitch of the Franchiser.
He built it up to £250K, spent £1,000's on fitting the shop out and buying the equipment needed to run it.
He sold it for £15K less than he bought it for, but during the time he had it, he invested some of the profits in real estate.
The point I am trying to make is the fact that my friend sold his business for £65K but that included £30K of equipment.
plus his turn over was £5K per week, £20K per month, and sold it for 3 times the monthly turn over.
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MB read what you have said.
3x turnover now how can you sell a business on turnover???????
think about it your only intrested in profit a company could turnover a million but make a loss of half a million would you pay 3x its monthly turnover??
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Exasperated.
Your argument is flawed MB, by all means sell yourself short, many will and have and continue to follow your lead.
Explain please Ewan?
You will have to wait for windowwashers to give you the finer points. Bit in a nutshell what you have built up has “real value” or could have real value with a little more effort (if you got things wrong slightly) or will have real value in the near future.
Disagree all you like and sell for 3 months pay, it’s your business.
Ewan it isnt 3 months pay! its 3 months turnover, big difference mate.
Matt
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Exasperated.
Your argument is flawed MB, by all means sell yourself short, many will and have and continue to follow your lead.
that makes it better then ::)
Explain please Ewan?
You will have to wait for windowwashers to give you the finer points. Bit in a nutshell what you have built up has “real value” or could have real value with a little more effort (if you got things wrong slightly) or will have real value in the near future.
Disagree all you like and sell for 3 months pay, it’s your business.
Ewan it isnt 3 months pay! its 3 months turnover, big difference mate.
Matt
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Exasperated.
Your argument is flawed MB, by all means sell yourself short, many will and have and continue to follow your lead.
Explain please Ewan?
You will have to wait for windowwashers to give you the finer points. Bit in a nutshell what you have built up has “real value” or could have real value with a little more effort (if you got things wrong slightly) or will have real value in the near future.
Disagree all you like and sell for 3 months pay, it’s your business.
Ewan it isnt 3 months pay! its 3 months turnover, big difference mate.
Matt
That Is a fair Point, and Ewan why am I getting dragged into explaining, I just asked you to explain as I did not understand what you mean t at the time of your posting. ::)
Ian
p.s I would not sell for 3 months pay or turnover.. just to clarify that point
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fair point window washers would you buy a business of turnover?
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MB read what you have said.
3x turnover now how can you sell a business on turnover???????
think about it your only intrested in profit a company could turnover a million but make a loss of half a million would you pay 3x its monthly turnover??
going back to the window cleaning business, depends what your over heads are. if your a larger business that buys a round to extend your existing round then you will have higher overheads than the local Traditional window cleaner with a set of ladders and a bucket, so the larger company will be making less profit than the local traditional window cleaner.
so in essence to the main question the round has a different value from one buyer to the next.
Matt
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wold i buy at 3 x turnover well if the profit was 60% yes would i sell for 3x of turnover if profit as say 60% no way that what using turnover for the value of a business does
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so i who has a business that is mainly run by stafff(when they turn up) is making les profit than aone man band.............................o really??
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In reality your round is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
Matt
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fair point window washers would you buy a business of turnover?
NO
Unless I could see the problems why there turnover was so poor inregards to the profit. ;)
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so i who has a business that is mainly run by stafff(when they turn up) is making les profit than aone man band.............................o really??
as a percentage yes lol
takings to overheads the one man band will make more profit.
he wouldn't make more profit collectively.
the one man band doesn't have to pay for several vans, wages, employers liability, employer NI, holiday pay etc.
So out of the, lets say £200 for arguments sake, wages one person earns, you will have less profit on that £200 than a one man band.
Matt
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MB sorry if you feel im having a dig but step and backwards come to mind ;)
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so i who has a business that is mainly run by stafff(when they turn up) is making les profit than aone man band.............................o really??
as a percentage yes lol
takings to overheads the one man band will make more profit.
he wouldn't make more profit collectively.
the one man band doesn't have to pay for several vans, wages, employers liability, employer NI, holiday pay etc.
So out of the, lets say £200 for arguments sake, wages one person earns, you will have less profit on that £200 than a one man band.
Matt
That should of been takings not wages.
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well one man on is own works for is profit but a man running a compny proberly doesnt so to speak
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Ronnie the point I was trying to make was if a one man band bought a round for 3 x monthly (2,000 per month)
out of that £2,000 the one man band would make more profit out of it.
and because he would make more profit out of that, does is justify increasing the price?
Where as the larger business will make less profit out of that £2,000 becuase of overheads they would want to buy the round for less.
See my point?
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NO.
That will take the sam tm if it was acompany or one man band your missing the point that just cause you clean your self doesnt mean its all profit you have to work which is time which is an expense.
so say my company buys the work one man does in two weeks i pay him 300 a week plus running cost of 120 a week now you clean this your self you still have to include your time has an expense so it makes the same!! simples
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This is why I wont buy a round, I wont even sell a round.
I am planning on building my business, so when I am ready for retirement I can sell the entire business. the buyer would have a complete working business including staff.
that way I would get the most amount for it.
Matt
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Fink there must be a few beers flowing tonight! ;D
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NO.
That will take the sam tm if it was acompany or one man band your missing the point that just cause you clean your self doesnt mean its all profit you have to work which is time which is an expense.
so say my company buys the work one man does in two weeks i pay him 300 a week plus running cost of 120 a week now you clean this your self you still have to include your time has an expense so it makes the same!! simples
So you dont pay employers NI? or EMPLOYERS liability insurance?
Companies usually pay more for van insurance, as they insure them for ANYONE to drive.
So overheads will be higher for a company than a self employed window cleaner.
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This is why I wont buy a round, I wont even sell a round.
I am planning on building my business, so when I am ready for retirement I can sell the entire business. the buyer would have a complete working business including staff.
that way I would get the most amount for it.
Matt
How RUDE!!
Dream on LOL, you are contradicting yourself. ;D
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This is why I wont buy a round, I wont even sell a round.
I am planning on building my business, so when I am ready for retirement I can sell the entire business. the buyer would have a complete working business including staff.
that way I would get the most amount for it.
Matt
Dream on LOL, you are contradicting yourself. ;D
And why am I contradicting myself?
selling a round and selling a full working business with reliable fully trained staff is totally different Ewan!
If you have fully trained reliable staff that will increase the price for the business!
like a house with an extension! you get more money for it.
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I also think the way to maximise selling prices would be to present it as a business. The van, livery, stationary, business account etc.
Selling a round only that has been canvassed or worked by someone for years, i wouldn't value as highly.
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If one applied the rule of thumb used in most business valuations if you employ only you’re self. Then you do not have a business to sell. You only have self employment. To value you have to take off what it would cost the employ some one do d the work, this is then an expense. This withal other expenses taken away from turnover is roughly your net profit. Two to 3 times this amount is +- the value of your business. A round is not a business it is potential but has no substance. Try going to a bank and say my round is my collateral and see if you could get a loan and that strength. This is based on my years as a business broker, it is a difficult one and window cleaning is not a normal run of the mill business type of business. Value is always what some one who is able a willing to pay, at the end of the day. So we can thing our businesses have value is the buys think differently them we have a problem.
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If one applied the rule of thumb used in most business valuations if you employ only you’re self. Then you do not have a business to sell. You only have self employment. To value you have to take off what it would cost the employ some one do d the work, this is then an expense. This withal other expenses taken away from turnover is roughly your net profit. Two to 3 times this amount is +- the value of your business. A round is not a business it is potential but has no substance. Try going to a bank and say my round is my collateral and see if you could get a loan and that strength. This is based on my years as a business broker, it is a difficult one and window cleaning is not a normal run of the mill business type of business. Value is always what some one who is able a willing to pay, at the end of the day. So we can thing our businesses have value is the buys think differently them we have a problem.
well thats funny i got a Business loan for a ROUND????
Whats not normal about window cleanin what makes it different to a cafe or a shop?
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Ronny Paton is right you never buy or value a business based on turn over.You could have more out goings and there no prifit and you would be buying a bancrupt business. In that case the only value would be in the assets E G equipment.
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Read back what I said not using the round a colateral.You borrowded on your goodwill at the bank.
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A legitimate professional window cleaning business should be valued the same as any other business and that is certainly not at 3 x the monthly turnover,that is a ridiculous figure that keeps the window cleaning business classed as a second rate business,which is how many percieve us.
You guys out there who run it properly know the true worth of you business and those that still believe theirs maybe only worth beer money well.....need i say any more.
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The deference between a cafe and a shop is it’s a fixed asset it tangible. It has an address it’s difficult to con a person that it does exist. Where we under value a selves is when we under charge. For our services. The one man that does own a business IMO from what I can read and that’s only here say and there will be others is Dave Morris. It’s called a going concern. If we sell a round its not a business its only a part of. We keep all the assets E G the van poles etc
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You could not sell a few chairs and plate a patron or 10 and call it a business its only part of one selling the total sum is a business. All business are not valued by the same formula. AS i said before Value is the amount of cash an able and willing buyer would be prepared to pay.The market will always deside how much you would get.
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Sole trader are also business but of less value than one with staff simply because a not w/c could buy it as a going concern.Therefor there would be more buyer and the price would be higher.The man buying a sole trader will be taking a biger chance in his purchase of that business .I am also a sole trade but would like to build it up to more if I could handle the problems of getting it to that leavel.
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being a sole trader is a business but why if you have staff does it make your business more saleable??
scenario 1- soletrader making 40k profit a year on is own accounts to show this for 3 years say.one van and one WFP setup.website and stationary ect
Scenario 2-ltd company making 22k profit mainly staff run(on tools anyway) got accounts 2 vans and 2 systems and same as above.
are you saying the second has a greater vlue and if so what value do you put on the two?
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being a sole trader is a business but why if you have staff does it make your business more saleable??
scenario 1- soletrader making 40k profit a year on is own accounts to show this for 3 years say.one van and one WFP setup.website and stationary ect
Scenario 2-ltd company making 22k profit mainly staff run(on tools anyway) got accounts 2 vans and 2 systems and same as above.
are you saying the second has a greater vlue and if so what value do you put on the two?
I'd take the 22k & sit on my bum all day! ;)
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wizard i see your point with window cleaning has its easy to laudering money fabricating your turnover but you could do the same wih a cafe.
But if you were to buy a business surely we woud look at accounts look at the rounds and work check on the customers to make sure it all added up???
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but you dont end sat on your ass all the time trust me!
so value the two businesses please.
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At the end of the day it's a window cleaning business & no matter how much wishfull thinking- it has a price as a "window cleaning business" & I don't see that changing any time soon. ;)
Only a buyer who is already a w/c would see the real value in it, most others would view it "high risk" IMO.
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but why is that different than a shop??
like the first post said they are selling for 2x yearly profit almost.
mac i listen to loads who say it not rcket science any one can do it any when can do a window cleaning business but why is it that so many people who come for my vancancy say they have had there own business??? but then come for a job with me earning sa 300 a week???
also just for example were is your business at(staff, ltd company?,equipment, commercial ?residential?rough turnover idea ect?) and how long has it took you to get there?
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im going to say window cleaning values have changed and there have been a few on here that have proved that when selling theirs.
I would want about 2 x yearly profit for my ltd company and i know id get it has any intrested parrty would look into it properly before forking out over 100k and they would see the VALUE.
Obviuosly this is my opinion an i can see many people dont agree.
A business idea has just come to mind ;)
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i went to look at a kids clothes business it was for sale for 35k plus stock value.
now this business makes about 20k profit with a 200k turnover, there are other perks of the job like free designer kids cloths ect but my point is that is nearly double yearly profit so why do may believe our business is only worth 3x 4x monthly value??????
we all need to re-evalute our business value!!!!
What type of profit is that Gross or Net?
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Just been reading platinums post and he valued his round at 10x the cleans.....
It makes sense that a business with a high profit margin of 60% and over should be valued at 1.5x the yearly profits...
Turnover is just turnover PROFIT is what counts and a profit margin of 60% plus shouldnt be valued at 5/6x monthly turnover.....
I know some of you dont like platinum but he has got the right ideas
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Certain areas in the UK already achieve X10 their monthly turnover on domestic work ...see posts by Stan The Man on areas around Lancshire mill towns.
Our line of work may not suit everyone but as long as the work is completed to a satisfactory standard you will never have to worry about job security will have flexibility and almost certainly a higher hourly rate than the £10/15 per hour which most tradesmen can,t achieve today in these changing times
TO CONCLUDE ITS UP TO US ALL TO UP THE ANTE AND COLLUDE TOGETHER IN PUSHING THE VALUE OF OUR ROUNDS UP CERTAINLEY UPTO A MINMUMN OF X6 OF THE MONTHLY TAKINGS.... THIS WOULD BE AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUMN ON A ROUND THAT COULD GENERATE A DECENT HOURLEY OR DAILY TAKINGS...SO ITS EASY THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE ANY WORK TO SELL ON THE NET OR LOCAL PRESS START WITH ASKING PRICES AT X6 AS THE NEW ABSOLUTE MINIMUMN ... ITS TIME FOR CHANGE AND WE ARE THE ONES TO MAKE THE CHANGE FORZA!!! FORZA!!! FORZA!!! YOU YOUNG SCRIMMERS ;) ;)
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what u got to remember about window cleaning as a business is work wise u dont own a thing,yes good will but when a round is sold some of the customers cancel just cause they liked the last guy that did them,u are hierd to do a job there are no signed contracts with your customers so no a window cleaning business is never going to be worth ridiculas amounts of money
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I agress with Ian, if you had all your customers on an anual contract then the business is worth more.
just having a list of names and addresses isn't worth much at all.
When you apply for a loan, you have to show proof of income, you can't say "oh but I will be having a pay rise next month"
Ronnie scenario 2 is worth more as there's more assets tied to the business.
Matt
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Just been reading platinums post and he valued his round at 10x the cleans.....
It makes sense that a business with a high profit margin of 60% and over should be valued at 1.5x the yearly profits...
Turnover is just turnover PROFIT is what counts and a profit margin of 60% plus shouldnt be valued at 5/6x monthly turnover.....
I know some of you dont like platinum but he has got the right ideas
you stick up for platinum alot, and are always going on about him, i smell a rat lol
did your account open just after his closed lol
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you stick up for platinum alot, and are always going on about him, i smell a rat lol
did your account open just after his closed lol
I worked for him for a few months and ended up buying work off him. Been reading a post he started similar to this and he says the same as ronnie......
I think the problem is when it comes to selling wc see themselves as bottom of the ladder so to speak on the business ladder and just want to make around 5x cleans on the sale where if they seen a business instead of a round they would see its worth more....
Thats why having the cash to buy rounds is such a bargain so im saving up now to buy some for myself ;D
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I clean for a very large accounts and chat to them numerous times when i do their insides and the general rule of thumb for buying a business is 2.5 times the net profit. Turnover is erelevant. So, it sounds like a decent business prospect Ronnie.
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I clean for a very large accounts and chat to them numerous times when i do their insides and the general rule of thumb for buying a business is 2.5 times the net profit. Turnover is erelevant. So, it sounds like a decent business prospect Ronnie.
And that'd be annual, not monthly, yes Ronnie?
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Value can not be worked out on a monthly turnover if this was possible I would only sell after the best 3 months in my business.
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M b you have a very good point contracted work has good value as it is goodwill you can depend on. The problem with true value and what people are prepared to pay is that so many inexperienced buyers have little or no basic business acumen of business and would buy emotionally and often pay too much for a pound or business just to get into the trade. That does not mean you will sink but take you longer to recoup you investment
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This is agreat posting as we have the oppertunity to flesh out the valuation riddle. Well down Ron Paton.!!!!!
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OK - let's imagine that I am buying another round exactly like my own on the 2.5X annual profit that Ronnie mentions in the post above.
Assume that I as an owner-operator am turning over (as in gross receipts from custies) £35K. Lets say that costs and paying "somebody" (Mrs Gold) to do the books reduces that to £25K and that the £25K is what I pay myself.
So I want to buy similar. So I need someone to do the work and he is going to cost me 20K per annum to do the work. Mrs Gold will do the books on his round thus making his accounts person redundant.
So lets say that in cold blood I am looking to make 15K profit after paying for the employee and his van etc. Out of that I want Mrs Gold to get more dosh for the extra accounts work she is doing - PAYE, NI, etc.
So lets say that to me there is 10K profit in this business I am buying. So would I pay 2.5 x 10K for it? If I felt it was solid I would.
Now - if someone offered me 25K for my round say at retirement age then would I accept?
No I wouldn't. I would reduce to 2 days a week and employ someone part time for 3 days and use the profit from him as a pension.
But if I was hacked off and moving to a new job and was offered 25K then I might accept. If I had fallen from my ladder and was crippled then I might accept too because time would be against me.
There are so many variables which is why I think there are so many variables in value.
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Mr and Mrs A run a corner shop. They have an annual turnover of £250,000 on which they make £50,000 gross profit and £25,000 net profit (the money they can actually call 'theirs' after all business expenses have been paid). They works six days a week for twelve hours a day, on Sundays they work for eight hours. They take two weeks holiday a year but have to pay someone to run the shop while they are away. They always work bank holidays with the only exception being Christmas day. They have run the business for ten years and have accounts showing the steady year on year growth of 15% in net profits.
Mr B has a window cleaning round. He has an annual turnover of £50,000 on which he makes £48,000 gross profit and £40,000 net profit. He works four and a half days a week for seven hours Monday to Thursday and four hours on Friday, with an occasional day at weekends to catch up. He takes two weeks holiday a year during which he simply leaves the business, having told his customers he will be late next time. He never works bank holidays. He has run the round for ten years and has accounts showing the steady year on year growth of 15% in net profits.
Taking into account lifestyle, the amount of time and effort needed to run the business and the profit to be gained from it, which one would you rather own?
And because of your choice, which would you say is worth the most?
If you choose the former, then you value hard work and low pay far higher than good lifestyle and high pay. You only have one life, are you sure you should be spending it that way?
I have owned a shop, and built and sold several window cleaning businesses - I know which I value the most.
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I agree,however,regardless of how you run your business,there is always a bottom line. Net profit. I could sit at home all day and employ two lads to clean my round,therefore making my profit less. Its a bit like saying if Richard Branson could fly a plane then he would have one less pilot to pay. We can all throw obstacles in the way,i was merely stating how any decent accountant would value any legitimate business. (not to be read as a rant,just an opinion)! :)
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if every 1 remembers platinum he was selling at 1 point 1,500 a month round for 15k not on your nelly that then dropped to 12k come on who in there right mind would buy a list of names and adresses wit no kind of fall back and see no return in the first year not mentioning the fact you will lose the odd custy,so in theory your making a loss ,its not realistic at all,no i am not putting windy cleaning down at all and dont look at myself as bottom of the ladder am happy with wat i do and have,but a round is only worth wat any1 wants to pay for it if no buyers its worth nothing except to yourself,you can advertise it at wat u want if u sell it is another thing,and going bk to platinum i bet he still got that round or he has given it away
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A friend of mine who has just started up has just given 16k for two weeks domestic work per month
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good luck to him but at the end of the day any round is only worth wat someone else is willing to pay for it and 16k for a list of names adresses and goodwill is well a little steep specially wit some hard work u can build a good round at a fraction of the cost from scratch
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A friend of mine who has just started up has just given 16k for two weeks domestic work per month
How long would it take to break even on that round at average prices - a year maybe?
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good luck to him but at the end of the day any round is only worth wat someone else is willing to pay for it and 16k for a list of names adresses and goodwill is well a little steep specially wit some hard work u can build a good round at a fraction of the cost from scratch
and what do you get from a say clothes shop?.......................even less cause you dont have regualar and reliable clients list
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There is a big difference in selling a "turn-key business" and a window cleaning round.
Those that have organised their business with automated systems for advertising, book-keeping, collecting, training of staff and then are willing to have a hand over period where they train the new owners in all the sytems and introduce them to all of the customers are sitting on a very valuable assett.
But they would need to be just as proffessional at marketing their business to maximise that value.
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the differance is in a shop even if is rented premisses is it there people can see what they are buying it physically is there you can see it,something tangable unlike window cleaning,like i said i aint puttin any1 down i am a windy cleaner but no way would i b paying stuipd prices for a round who would?and selling a round in winter would b more difficult so hence price would drop
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I saw one fellow buy a round for 16 grand. That is a lot of money but for that I would want a barring clause to stop him trading is that area for 36 months at least and I fell all sale of rounds should have an exclusion clause of some sort on a sale of this nature.
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so what are my four years of accounts my vans my uniformed staff my website to name a fe doing then??
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so what are my four years of accounts my vans my uniformed staff my website to name a fe doing then??
What if one or both your staff leave, what's the new owner going to do, with no knowlage of a window cleaning business?
How can they train any new staff when they can't even clean windows?
What about staff holidays, will the new owner be prepared to go out on the tools in freezing cold weather?
The business of w/c'ing has a very limited & specific buyer IMO.
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so you could buy a garage nd your staff could leave but some how i dont think its has easier to train up to be a mechanic.
some of the rubbish that comes out on here makes me laugh its like people want to undervalue there business and try to make up reason ans ill proberly have a answer for all of them.
ill tell you why window cleaning business are under valued........because of us the window cleaners so very silly of us.
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so you could buy a garage nd your staff could leave but some how i dont think its has easier to train up to be a mechanic.
some of the rubbish that comes out on here makes me laugh its like people want to undervalue there business and try to make up reason ans ill proberly have a answer for all of them.
ill tell you why window cleaning business are under valued........because of us the window cleaners so very silly of us.
No Ronnie, we're laughing at you! ;D We know what they're worth, it's you that can't swallow it mate! ;D
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really keep laughing ;)
I know a few on here have sold ther business for far more than 3 or 4 x and i know a company has valued my business at far more than that ;)
tell you what ill give you 3 x and ill then sell itfor far more(if its worth buying) ;D
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"It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it."
I agree with this statement but only in the sense of it's market value.
What a round is actually worth is probably very different.
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really keep laughing ;)
I know a few on here have sold ther business for far more than 3 or 4 x and i know a company has valued my business at far more than that ;)
tell you what ill give you 3 x and ill then sell itfor far more(if its worth buying) ;D
The fact is Ronnie, it ain't worth a penny untill you sell it. Only then will you discover it's worth. You may get 10x or 20x, you may not even get a buyer, you may be stuck with something you can't even sell!
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Hi Ronnie,
Off topic, but just noticed you've got a "p" missing from the guttercleaningstockport link in your signature....
Anything to stop me having to do invoices...
Cheers,
Huw
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that is the point i am trying to make you sell the whole thing uniform van equipment name numbers books everything that is a business,selling a round is not is it?700 pounds worth of work 7k come on 1500 of work 15k yeah right now if it was being sold as a whole business yeah ask wat u want,but at end of the day if u sell it or not is another thing,