Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on November 26, 2009, 06:52:00 pm
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When i attended the NCCA course we were all told the dreaded Belgian Wilton horror stories etc and were shown an example of one and how to identify one to check the reverse and see if the pattern is repeated on the underside, my question is, this implies that these type of carpets are all patterned and this is how i have approached these carpets i had one last week an axminster type pattern pulled the carpet up same underneath proceeded with caution, i dry cleaned it with enviro dri came out very well but this doubt crept into my head and i thought i would ask you all.
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True BWs are polyprop face fibre on a jute backing & Axminsters are wool .......so a burn/float test should suffice if in doubt.
As for the pattern showing through to the back, on a BW the pattern is alot more pronounced on the underside compared to an Axminster which might appear more faded in comparison. :)
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True BWs are polyprop face fibre on a jute backing & Axminsters are wool .......so a burn/float test should suffice if in doubt.
As for the pattern showing through to the back, on a BW the pattern is alot more pronounced on the underside compared to an Axminster which might appear more faded in comparison. :)
Most Axminsters are 80/20 Wool/Nylon, although there are still a few Acrylic ones around which were very popular 25 - 30 years ago. Axminster doesnt relates to the type of pile/fibre content, but the type of loom the carpet is woven on.
Dave.
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Check the backing on every polyprop carpet, as some BW are now plain, if the jute weft shots run in both directions overlapping each other then its a BW. SimplezMark
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forget the term belgium wilton.
if you can see jute intertwined with cotton on the reverse of a carpet, its a woven carpet and its a shrinker,( regardless of wether its patterned or not) you then need to test the face fibre with a burn test to see if its wool or man made. if its wool then you should be okay as long as you don't overwet. if its man made then you need to seriously know what your doing.
derek
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some good common sense advice there from both derek and mark
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True BWs are polyprop face fibre on a jute backing & Axminsters are wool .......so a burn/float test should suffice if in doubt.
As for the pattern showing through to the back, on a BW the pattern is alot more pronounced on the underside compared to an Axminster which might appear more faded in comparison. :)
Most Axminsters are 80/20 Wool/Nylon, although there are still a few Acrylic ones around which were very popular 25 - 30 years ago. Axminster doesnt relates to the type of pile/fibre content, but the type of loom the carpet is woven on.
Dave.
I know all that Dave........just trying to keep it concise ::)
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You don't see ANY of the face yarn on an axminster when you look at the back, due to the way they're constructed ;)
Imagine you have a bunch of tubes and put then together in two layers. They will be in a kind of triangle pattern if you look at a cross section. That's how the weft shots are in an axminster (there are variations on this) around which the yarn is woven to create the tufts.
With an axminster, the yarn is woven around the top layer, the bottom layers pull tight together so you don't see through.
Just to complicate things further :D
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Just to simplify things :D
On older Axminsters you CAN clearly see the pattern on the back of the carpet.
Considering the lifespan of this type of carpet, Axminsters with visible patterns on the backing are still very common indeed.
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Just do a burn test if unsure, fast and simple.
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Just do a burn test if unsure, fast and simple.
Float test would be better ;)
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There's no need to worry with BW's as long as you follow the steps most of the guys have mentioned.Do your burn and float test.Check the backing.Make sure the carpet is fitted correctly.When it comes to cleaning the carpet,dont blast too much water into it,and finish off with multiple dry passes.Do these simple things and you should have no problems.
Chris
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Low moisture cleaning. ;D
Never worry about shrinkage again. ;D
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I walked today
For £15 it was not worth the risk
;D ;D
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Can I just confirm that it is ok to clean a polypropylene fibre on a woven jute backing using HWE as long as you dont overwet and carry out extra vacuum passes on the cleaned areas ?
thanks
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I dont think you can answer the question " can i wet clean them or not" it depends on every individual situation eg is it well fitted, general condition if its in a bad state then making a correct assesment of the end result due to the lack of moisture you can use. Customer expectation i could go on. I have cleaned a few but walked on most no point in taking any risks. I carry some host sponges so there is alwys the option for the custy.
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Can I just confirm that it is ok to clean a polypropylene fibre on a woven jute backing using HWE as long as you dont overwet and carry out extra vacuum passes on the cleaned areas ?
thanks
no its not okay, i would walk, its not worth the hastle.
but if your confident and the carpet is double grippered and you have air movers and maybe some heavy furniture holding it down the why not. be careful of the door plate?
derek
ps.... a lot of guys on here will say, "dereks talkin b0llox, ive done millions with no problems" well if they cover any shrinkage costs for you then listen to them. you have been warned.
pps... i'm not saying it will deffo shrink. but the odds are in shrinkage favour.
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Derick is talking bollo**s
his words ;) :)
anybody thinking of taking up c/cleaning would run a mike and find a job stacking shelves if you take too much notice of the scarmongering, " perhaps that is the idea " ;)
Derick do you really believe a polyprop is that difficult to clean ?
It is not, providing you are sensible , come on we have all cleaned loads of them with out a problem. that doesnt mean to say we can go in guns blazing but a little common and u wont go far wrong.
Stop trying to frighten the life out of newbies.
Geoff
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Derek is talking Michael ballacks.
I clean loads infact today I cleaned one it was grotty and I cleaned it and dried it (to touch anyway)
Bloody good carpet cleaner named Shaun
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But as stated, the Dry clean did the job, so no risk of shrinkage doing this in similar situations.
Pete (JS2)
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thackley cleaning
well if you shrink it, you know who to turn too for the bill. shaun and the other guy are confident you won't shrink it so go for it, you have there blessing;D
derek
ps... lets give newbies some good advice and say, belgium wiltons are no problem whatsoever. or should we put a doubt in there mind to make them think on the cautious side.? hmmmmmmmmmm
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That's like saying if you don't get a certain stain off then you should blame someone on the forum!
The benefit of being an experienced carpet cleaner when I started aged 6 months ;D is that years ago before TM's were a sprinkle in John Gotts eye most carpets were axministers and wiltons and with the machinery we had then single 1 stage vac motored and poor quality chemicals in comparison to todays then we had this problem day in day out.
Obviously Derek that was aimed at you so I want you to go to the naughty stair and sulk and swear under your breath about me and my know it all attitude.
Shaun
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but shaun your talking to newbies like they shouldn't worry. its okay for guys like you who've got 80 years experience to say not to worry, but if youve not cleaned one you should worry, you should be cautious and you should think twice before taking one on. if every ones answer was, "ive cleaned loads with no problems" then a newbie would shrink one straight away.
a woven carpet is a problem carpet, even wool ones. so to say to a newbie, "just get on with it, ive cleaned loads" is irrisponsible.
and for that reason, you! should go to the back of the class, and i want 100 lines of "i must not treat newbies like they've been cleaning for 80 years like me" and no cheating using cut and paste ;D
derek
thats my final word on the matter. apart from maybe the odd "tut!" here and there.
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i find 400 psi with heat full on cleans b.w. great as long as your useing a rdm ;D
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If all of the posts on here were for newbies then we wouldn't get anywhere would we? the trouble is that there isn't one exact way to clean a carpet, there are some simular ways and if you do your checks properly and identify what there is to be cleaned then you should be aware of the circumstances.
Shaun is a naughty boy
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Shaun is a naughty boy
Shaun is a naughty boy
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cheers for the advice lads so as long as we're careful with the amount of moisture put into the carpet and making sure that we are taking out as much as possible we will be ok.
We would try and do that with all carpets and make sure that it is properly secured prior to vac and cleaning.
The machine i will be going for the is the prochem polaris 800 with the wand attachment. Its mainly for commercial area (large ones). i went on their training course and tried it there. It seems to provide the flexibility that we are looking for for large and smaller areas.
Im not sure how often I will come across a belgian wilton in a commercial environment but thanks for the advice. Are there any other pitfalls I should be looking to consider specifically for the commercial sector ?
Thanks
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I too would recomend to clean a b wilton but with caution..
I cleaned a indian restaurant a month or so ago and it was not fitted in parts so tacked some of it down and also used a carpet spray glue.
The carpet was a wilton and had been cleaned in the past and had moved in parts..
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Would you warn your customers of the Dangers,
Or would you just go ahead.
Or would you get customer to sign a disclaimer?
I AM NOT trying to scare new people
I did clean my own this week no problems , but eventually there will be one that may catch you out.
Despite what others may think they are not that easy to streach back
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Well well :(
i started this thread and i would like to say i am reassured that i can even identify one apart from the obvious example i was shown at the NCCA i feel like the kid at the back of the class none the wiser actually seeing these examples is by far the best way, regardine making us cautious thats why i posted in the first place i am cautious by nature were working on a valuable item in a customers home and i am amazed that this subject has not been discussed in the monthly NCCA mag i get each month, i came away from the course in November believing that the example we were shown was the only one to really worry about, i know you can shrink many woven carpets but, the "Belgian Wilton" as it was described to me was a unique problem to be avoided at all cost dry clean only.
the example we were shown was one that shrunk 6 inches off the grippers in a Hotel 3 days before a wedding reception, and also one that shrunk just from the prespray alone
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Have even seen some that have come away from the gripers near patio doors where its cold and a bit damp..
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Yep Ive seen that in A CARPET SHOP where the wall was damp