Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: the clean team on November 24, 2009, 07:15:12 pm
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We Don't Use:
•Water Fed Pole Systems
•Gallons Of Water
•Harmful Chemical Processes
http://www.harrogatetraditional.co.uk/
its not mine just found a flyer the other day
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what would be illegal about it?
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Well the photos definately are.
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Well ladders are illegal,... :)
And those stock images haven't been paid for,..
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Can't see why not. I would say the wfp brigade are more guilty of telling porkies, or lets say, are more economical with the actual truth! ;D
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Why wouldn't it be? I state on my flyers that i use traditional method.
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
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Those photo's aren't paid for, hence the watermark visible. Why put those on your website, crazy :P
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.
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
Dont allow youself to get caught up with all that pony the polers give out about working at heights.
I pole because im a lazy sod not because of ladders, coz ladders dont scare me in the least.
And LADDERS ARE NOT BANNED!
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How do you know this?
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
Dont allow youself to get caught up with all that pony the polers give out about working at heights.
I pole because im a lazy sod not because of ladders, coz ladders dont scare me in the least.
And LADDERS ARE NOT BANNED!
I know they're not, why do the WFP brigade get so aggro if some window cleaners still use ladders?? If ladders are banned then someone needs to inform these multi national companies like BT and Sky about it! How about Sky fitters using the DOAP system (drill on a pole).
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
Its not law its a guide line set by the Health and Safety, and they state that ladders should only be used after all safer alternatives have been ruled out.
Matt
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Why wouldn't it be? I state on my flyers that i use traditional method.
Harm full chemical process??
the manufacter of PLASTIC buckets and RUBBER squeegees produce more chemical waste than WFP set up.
Matt
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Why wouldn't it be? I state on my flyers that i use traditional method.
Harm full chemical process??
the manufacter of PLASTIC buckets and RUBBER squeegees produce more chemical waste than WFP set up.
Matt
Don't forget the Fairy Liquid :)
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hes just marketing his business as he sees fit. ok the harmfull bit is a bit much but how many wfp users claim to be all eco friendly. and state we dont use harmfull detergents etc, fairy harmfull hardly
i use both methods by the way
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This is what happens when we fight our corner for the system we use. This is a crack in this industry that will devide use and when our custies see the split we will not gain anything good from it"STOP THIS WAR" its bad for our industry. By the way Jonesy ladders are not illegal and not one system is beter. I personaly use both. Its like a motor Mac say rings are beter than flat spanners.Lets stop the cheap snobbery guys?
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On a serious note, both have advantages and disadvantages which is why most wfp users use trad as well
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This is for the guys who to lazy to surf the net but still persist on the ladder question.
When can ladders be used?
The HSE’s key message is that ladders should only be used for low-risk, short duration work.
Ladders can be used if after assessing the risks the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and short duration.
Short duration is taken to be between 15 and 30 minutes depending upon the task.
Ladders can also be used for low risk work where there are features on the site that mean a ladder must be used.
These following comments were made by the HSE during the Windex 2006 Seminars.
The health and safety executive recognizes that it is unrealistic to expect every window cleaner to adopt new working practices overnight and also accepts that the indusrty accident record is low and is anticipating a period of transition to allow the industry to settle into the adoption of any new working methods needed to comply with the new regulations.
During this period the HSE will expect all window cleaners to consider the safet benefits of using alternatives to ladders and plan to change their work practices where possible.
The HSE will advise shortly as to the length of the transitional period.
The following examples illustrate situations where, provided a proper risk assessment has been done and equipment is properly used, ladder use may be appropriate during the transitional period.
Situations where ladders may be suitable:
On ground floor windows both internally and externally using ‘A’ frame ladders.
Internal of high windows in schools, shopping malls, atriums etc.
Up to and including 1st floor using ladders no more than 6 metres on domestic and small commercial properties.
Removal of heavily impaced soilage. Eg. Builders Cleans
To access windows above flat roofs.
Where the number of windows to be cleaned at height is very small relative to the total, making use of more expensive access or cleaning methods unreasonable
(eg. Less than 6 1st floor) on an isolated property.
On city centre red routes and in other areas where you can’t get the waterfed pole van near to the building to be cleaned and trailing hoses would cause a hazard.
On properties where the use of a trolley system is not suitable because of site conditions (i.e steps or other physical obstructions)
On isolated domestic and small commercial premises. (i.e in rural locations where you may have, say only one two houses on a street/housing estate.
On domestic and small commercial premises where ladders are required to access above a flat roof and there is a limited number of 1st floor windows which are not above a roof.
If you do decide that the use of a ladder is the most suitable means of access then you should conduct a further risk assessment into the actual use of the ladder and ensure that you use it safely.
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
Dont allow youself to get caught up with all that pony the polers give out about working at heights.
I pole because im a lazy sod not because of ladders, coz ladders dont scare me in the least.
And LADDERS ARE NOT BANNED!
I know they're not, why do the WFP brigade get so aggro if some window cleaners still use ladders?? If ladders are banned then someone needs to inform these multi national companies like BT and Sky about it! How about Sky fitters using the DOAP system (drill on a pole).
BT and Sky are getting into window cleaning ??? ??? ???
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
Dont allow youself to get caught up with all that pony the polers give out about working at heights.
I pole because im a lazy sod not because of ladders, coz ladders dont scare me in the least.
And LADDERS ARE NOT BANNED!
I know they're not, why do the WFP brigade get so aggro if some window cleaners still use ladders?? If ladders are banned then someone needs to inform these multi national companies like BT and Sky about it! How about Sky fitters using the DOAP system (drill on a pole).
BT and Sky are getting into window cleaning ??? ??? ???
If they are, they won't clean many windows in a day due to all the safety equipment they use!
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The HSE’s key message is that ladders should only be used for low-risk, short duration work.
Ladders can be used if after assessing the risks the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and short duration.
Short duration is taken to be between 15 and 30 minutes depending upon the task.
Who here only works 15-30 minutes per day?
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doesnt say per day its says per task
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doesnt say per day its says per task
True,.. but when 1 task follows another, day in day out,.. can it really be considered short duration ladder use anymore?
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yes thats why the hse have written documens spefically(however thats spelt) for window cleaners and the safe use of ladders
its all down to commen sense and risk assesment
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yes thats why the hse have written documens spefically(however thats spelt) for window cleaners and the safe use of ladders
its all down to commen sense and risk assesment
Still doesn't make it "short duration".
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Ladders are bad news for window cleaners,
I gambled 4 years ago and im lucky to be alive,
I broke my ankle in 3 places, and both of my feet,
Ive got 5 pins still in my ankle and I still struggle on long days,
We still do use ladders for access reasons and also on zero risk climbs, which usually means me at the bottom of the ladder, lol.
Seriously though,
These guys know the risks, just like I do when Im policing,
The world is full of police hating scum and criminals who would love nothing more than seeing any officer on ther ass,
Policing is very very very dangerous,
but id do it anyday rather than returning to the ladders,
Dean
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just thought the working at hights law would apply
Dont allow youself to get caught up with all that pony the polers give out about working at heights.
I pole because im a lazy sod not because of ladders, coz ladders dont scare me in the least.
And LADDERS ARE NOT BANNED!
I know they're not, why do the WFP brigade get so aggro if some window cleaners still use ladders?? If ladders are banned then someone needs to inform these multi national companies like BT and Sky about it! How about Sky fitters using the DOAP system (drill on a pole).
BT and Sky are getting into window cleaning ??? ??? ???
So ladders are only banned if your a window cleaner then??
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So ladders are only banned if your a window cleaner then??
Window cleaners have another "Practicable" method of working,.. that s why it applies to us much more than other professions. We have an alternative!
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So ladders are only banned if your a window cleaner then??
Window cleaners have another "Practicable" method of working,.. that s why it applies to us much more than other professions. We have an alternative!
There's an alternative to most things. other professions could use a cherry picker, scaffolding etc... Still practical if you have the means!
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Don't think fitting a sky dish from a cherrypicker or scaffold tower is very practical is it?
Matt
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There's an alternative to most things. other professions could use a cherry picker, scaffolding etc... Still practical if you have the means!
It's only a matter of time,....
I'm not as anti-ladder as I might come across on here,.. there are jobs where a ladder is essential, and used properly the risks can be minimised,.. but if the job can be completed without using ladders then it really should be.
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Safety in window cleaning using portable ladders
this is from a hse document
In some situations, use of long pole systems can also
help avoid risks of falling. However, these cannot be
used in every situation and risks from falling poles or
contact with power lines need to be considered. Also
the large quantities of water created on the ground can
result in an increased risk of slipping, especially if it
freezes or is carried into shops.
every method of cleaning has a risk its down to you percieve the risk
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Don't think fitting a sky dish from a cherrypicker or scaffold tower is very practical is it?
Matt
A lot safer though. Bet people didn't think it would be too practical hauling 250ltrs of water round in the back of a van and having to refill it at least once a day?! Not to mention filters and poles, never mind the expense! Would seem a lot more practical to just climb up your ladder and clean the window as had been done for generations beforehand?!
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I can see wfp being banned in the future myself, i mean if the average windy uses say 2,500 litres per week how much has the RO wasted just to produce 2,500? 5,000 litres? 7,500 litres.
Times that by say 50,000 window cleaners and that is a hell of a lot of water!
I bet the water boards read forums like this regulary
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Leaving ice behind is a real concern of mine in winter with wfp. Not be long before someone gets sued!
Before the barrage begins, get real, I ain't salting every inch of every piece of ground I wet on a customers or public ground. :o
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Ladders are safe!, its the operator that makes the use of ladders dangerous! i.e. if they don't know how to use them correctly.
Matt
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i agree matt!both times ive fell off it was my own fault!!complacent and naive(the first time anyway!).landed on my heels both times!back at work the next day!heels must be made of iron!i was v.lucky!no accidents in 10 yrs now. ;D ;D
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Landed on your heels? I bet that hurt mate?
I was once kicked in the heel whilst playing football, I had a strong stinging pain for hours after.
Matt
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Hi Matt
Your up late! im just in from work ewww, did you get my e mail re tomorrow?
Craig
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Yes mate thanks.
Where were you working?
Matt
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in the office, working on quotes for new jobs, as Heidi is in New york (she would normally do them). What did you think of the link of our new product?
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I can see wfp being banned in the future myself, i mean if the average windy uses say 2,500 litres per week how much has the RO wasted just to produce 2,500? 5,000 litres? 7,500 litres.
Times that by say 50,000 window cleaners and that is a hell of a lot of water!
I bet the water boards read forums like this regulary
When they ban Coca cola and other well known drinks manufacturers maybe till then they can't drinks makers use far more than we do. our usage saves lives where as theres helps to make people fat so opposite and they use/waste millions of ltrs of water ;D
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We Don't Use:
•Water Fed Pole Systems
•Gallons Of Water
•Harmful Chemical Processes
http://www.harrogatetraditional.co.uk/
its not mine just found a flyer the other day
It's not true because if they use detergent then the water used to rinse that out of scrims and towels and to wash scrims in the washing machine is far more than they would use on a waterfed pole.
A more accurate version would be ...
We don't use waterfed poles (so we mark your lawns, cannot do above wet decking, porches and conservatories without risking our necks or breaking your tiles and then blaming you the customer and suing you for letting us use ladders when our legs don't work and we poo in a bag)
We don't use gallons of water (except when we wash our scrims and frame wiping towels; or we don't bother doing the frames or your bathroom window - it's up to you really hmmmm?)
We don't use harmful chemical processes (except detergent, the occasional gob of tobacco-ridden spit and a splash of urine when we're caught short!)
www harrogate-luddite traditional co uk
;D
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theres some really good videos on you tube called MyWagga where he shows you cleaning upper indows with a trad pole and a modified wagtail . doesnt need his ladder anymore and still trad . makes sense these do
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Just like to point out Ladders are not Banned! Last year I went on a Ladder Trainning course I aws asked to do this By the Ladder Federation, Ladders are safe it is the person that uses them are not :-\ and some of you are talking about waste, how much water do you waste cleaning a window with a wfp system,when clearly you dont need it :-\ and now the frost is coming you are now making much more water around for a slippery situation for some one to fall and make a possible claim :-\ I am not anti wfp just pointing out some things :-\
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theres some really good videos on you tube called MyWagga where he shows you cleaning upper indows with a trad pole and a modified wagtail . doesnt need his ladder anymore and still trad . makes sense these do
How does he clean the frames?
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theres some really good videos on you tube called MyWagga where he shows you cleaning upper indows with a trad pole and a modified wagtail . doesnt need his ladder anymore and still trad . makes sense these do
How does he clean the frames?
Just leave them! Only the really fussy customers mention frames, and you just dump those.
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Just like to point out Ladders are not Banned! Last year I went on a Ladder Trainning course I aws asked to do this By the Ladder Federation, Ladders are safe it is the person that uses them are not :-\ and some of you are talking about waste, how much water do you waste cleaning a window with a wfp system,when clearly you dont need it :-\ and now the frost is coming you are now making much more water around for a slippery situation for some one to fall and make a possible claim :-\ I am not anti wfp just pointing out some things :-\
I see your point Terry, but if you saw the patios at some of my customers you wouldn't dream of setting ladders up, the amount of algae around far outways the amount of water that MAY freeze.
The chemical process:
Think about the waste that is produced when making the strips of rubber for the squeegee, and the plastic bucket.
I use less water to clean a 3 bed semi than most people use to flush the toilet.
Matt
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both times ive fell off it was my own fault!!complacent and naive(the first time anyway!).landed on my heels both times!back at work the next day!heels must be made of iron!i was v.lucky!
no accidents in 10 yrs now. ;D ;D
??? ??? ???
Shouldnt that be
Ive had more than my fair share of accidents caused by my lack of safety awareness but have been lucky enough so far not to end up in a wheelchair pooing into a bag for the rest of my days
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very true horses 4 courses,thats why every thing works for all situations,just wonder how wfp people get on when really frosty :-\ do they end up with a big
ice cube in the van or you have to heat this :-\
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Terry if its very frosty I won't go out until it warms up, the same as traditional for me.
I never went out if it was too frosty and icy, as you are asking for problems going up the ladders.
Thats just my view really Terry.
Matt
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I get big bags of salt,.. 25kg for under €15 from my local farmers co-op & salt under the windows before cleaning. Its only 3 or 4 days a year I need it though,.. last year I didn't even finish 1 bag.
As for wasting water,.. yes it is an issue. I reckon rainwater harvesting will become almost universal within the trade in the next year or 2.
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Think about the waste that is produced when making the strips of rubber for the squeegee, and the plastic bucket.
I use less water to clean a 3 bed semi than most people use to flush the toilet.
Not really a valid argument. Think about the waste from the manufacture of all wfp equipment & consumables. ;)
If you ask me, it's more about wfp'ers feeling threatened by trad cleaners with minimal overheads.
Why is it assumed that a trad cleaner is a cowboy, unprofessional, scruffy tax-dodging criminal? Most of you were trad cleaners at some time. ;)
Why do the wfp'ers get SOOOOOOO touchy with these types of topic?
Why do they feel the need to agressively over-promote wfp?
Who are they tying to convince? 'cos it ain't me! ::)
I've been wfp for over 5 years but some of the replies to threads like this still make me laugh ;D ;D
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I am not against Trad, I still clean some windows this method.
Maybe it wasn't a valid argument.
The thing that irritates me, is the fact that most of the Trad guys who slam WFP have never even tried it, so they are in no position to slam it.
Matt
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I am not against Trad, I still clean some windows this method.
Maybe it wasn't a valid argument.
The thing that irritates me, is the fact that most of the Trad guys who slam WFP have never even tried it, so they are in no position to slam it.
Matt
I'm not digging at you personally MB but on the other hand just look at how trad guys are treated/viewed by wfp'ers on here! It's almost slander!
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I personally think this split in the industry will damage the image of this industry.
Lost count how many times I have been approached by customers and other window cleaners saying that WFP is crap.
I just tell them the system isn't crap, its the operator. but they don't listen.
Matt
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I just tell them the system isn't crap, its the operator. but they don't listen.
Well, there's an example. The truth is it's both as wfp is not suited to all windows & all circumstances. It's not a TOTAL solution, & that's where the problem lies. ;)
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Quote
I just tell them the system isn't crap, its the operator. but they don't listen.
Now I'm not wanting to run any one down, but there is only one window cleaner in my town who uses wfp(to the best of my knowledge) and I have heard from quite a few folks when out canvassing that there not happy with the results. I was talking to my brother and his wife yesterday and they used to get this guy to do there windows as there 2nd floor flat and the same thing, streaky smears and marks, and this was after several months of cleaning.
So I'm planning on getting maybe a backpack or trolley in the new year, but I'm a bit concerned that because there seems to be to many people allready turned off to wfp that it may take some convincen that it can actualy clean well.
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Ladders are bad news for window cleaners,
I gambled 4 years ago and im lucky to be alive,
I broke my ankle in 3 places, and both of my feet,
Ive got 5 pins still in my ankle and I still struggle on long days,
We still do use ladders for access reasons and also on zero risk climbs, which usually means me at the bottom of the ladder, lol.
Seriously though,
These guys know the risks, just like I do when Im policing,
The world is full of police hating scum and criminals who would love nothing more than seeing any officer on ther ass
Policing is very very very dangerous,
but id do it anyday rather than returning to the ladders,
Dean
Easy Tiger, we're on about ladder safety and alternatives, not how people hate you :'(
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Hmm - it goes against my better judgement, but I feel I had better clarify the bullet points of my website as it seems to have caused quite a stir (over 500 hits on the site so far and counting).....here goes....
We Don't Use:
* Water Fed Pole Systems - Well, frankly I don't!
* Gallons Of Water Erm - once again - I don't
* Harmful Chemical Processes and yet again...I don't do this either
We Do Use:
* Ladders and Traditional Tools This i do!
* Just Enough WaterYep - no more than is necessary...
* Small Amounts of Eco-Friendly Detergent It's non-toxic and Bio-Degradeable!
Unsure as to why anyone would take offence or question this? I do not deride the value of WFP systems - just in my opinion they do not perform the task to the high standards I set for cleaning a window.
The 2005 working at height regulations do not ban the use of ladders - although they do strongly suggest that they should not be used in situations where the work can be carried out to the same standard from the ground - which in my opinion it cannot - and that is just my opinion, but as the owner of my business I am entitled to that opinion.
Having worked previously building masts and rigging wireless commercial radio equipment to them I believe I should be reasonably well qualified to assess the pros and cons of working with a ladder and the associated risks, surely. I have worked at heights far exceding those I now work at for many many years and have not once had a fall or injury related to ladder use, mainly because I maintain a healthy respect for working at height at all times and ensure I have done all I can to protect myself, rather than just doing the minimum to comply with standards.
All jobs are subject to a thorough risk assesment and ladder access/placement assessment before I even quote.
All my ladders are of the Class 1 variety and are fitted with stabilisers and ladderstops etc. are used where appropriate.
I carry full insurance from a leading provider - and I mean full insurance, not the cheap and nasty variety that just about makes you legal - that covers both me, the public and the property at which I am working.
If any of the WFP guys have taken offence all I can say is sorry, but none is intended. I am merely positioning myself in the market place as a provider of a service that uses traditional methods rather than the new methods. This is purely a personal/business decision and is not an attack on how you run your business or how you go about your job. In fact I believe there is room in the market for both methods and both have different sets of values and USPs to bring to the job - after that it is down to the customer to decide how they would like their service delivered.
And, far from being a "luddite" I embrace and welcome new technologies - I maintain a professional web-presence with the facilities for customers to pay online (and yes - I know the photos are from i-stock and still have the watermarks on them - but until I get round to finding images I would like to purchase that is how they will have to stay so I can remain "legal") and I am in the process of developing an open-source CRM/ERP system for the window cleaning industry which, once finished, I will be more than happy to share with others. Hardly the attitude of one against progress....
Anyway - oratory over. Hope I have clarified a few points and also glad to see the art of healthy debate is not dead, and that I also belong to a profession that cares enough to not let it die ;-)
Cheers
Andy
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hi Andy, welcome to the forum, bet you didn't realize you were this important to the window cleaning world.
;)
it will work wonders for your google listing ;D ;D
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Hmm - it goes against my better judgement, but I feel I had better clarify the bullet points of my website as it seems to have caused quite a stir (over 500 hits on the site so far and counting).....here goes....
We Don't Use:
* Water Fed Pole Systems - Well, frankly I don't!
* Gallons Of Water Erm - once again - I don't
* Harmful Chemical Processes and yet again...I don't do this either
We Do Use:
* Ladders and Traditional Tools This i do!
* Just Enough WaterYep - no more than is necessary...
* Small Amounts of Eco-Friendly Detergent It's non-toxic and Bio-Degradeable!
Unsure as to why anyone would take offence or question this? I do not deride the value of WFP systems - just in my opinion they do not perform the task to the high standards I set for cleaning a window.
The 2005 working at height regulations do not ban the use of ladders - although they do strongly suggest that they should not be used in situations where the work can be carried out to the same standard from the ground - which in my opinion it cannot - and that is just my opinion, but as the owner of my business I am entitled to that opinion.
Having worked previously building masts and rigging wireless commercial radio equipment to them I believe I should be reasonably well qualified to assess the pros and cons of working with a ladder and the associated risks, surely. I have worked at heights far exceding those I now work at for many many years and have not once had a fall or injury related to ladder use, mainly because I maintain a healthy respect for working at height at all times and ensure I have done all I can to protect myself, rather than just doing the minimum to comply with standards.
All jobs are subject to a thorough risk assesment and ladder access/placement assessment before I even quote.
All my ladders are of the Class 1 variety and are fitted with stabilisers and ladderstops etc. are used where appropriate.
I carry full insurance from a leading provider - and I mean full insurance, not the cheap and nasty variety that just about makes you legal - that covers both me, the public and the property at which I am working.
If any of the WFP guys have taken offence all I can say is sorry, but none is intended. I am merely positioning myself in the market place as a provider of a service that uses traditional methods rather than the new methods. This is purely a personal/business decision and is not an attack on how you run your business or how you go about your job. In fact I believe there is room in the market for both methods and both have different sets of values and USPs to bring to the job - after that it is down to the customer to decide how they would like their service delivered.
And, far from being a "luddite" I embrace and welcome new technologies - I maintain a professional web-presence with the facilities for customers to pay online (and yes - I know the photos are from i-stock and still have the watermarks on them - but until I get round to finding images I would like to purchase that is how they will have to stay so I can remain "legal") and I am in the process of developing an open-source CRM/ERP system for the window cleaning industry which, once finished, I will be more than happy to share with others. Hardly the attitude of one against progress....
Anyway - oratory over. Hope I have clarified a few points and also glad to see the art of healthy debate is not dead, and that I also belong to a profession that cares enough to not let it die ;-)
Cheers
Andy
Well said matey, some just think owning a wfp system makes them somehow, above you! ::)
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no, people on ladders are above me, unless the ladder and person are very short :D
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I think andykirk's reply is a very respectfull & knowlagable one. Can't wait to hear the replies from those who assumed he was a dole cheating, cowboy piece of scum who hadn't a clue about safety? ;D
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hi Andy, welcome to the forum, bet you didn't realize you were this important to the window cleaning world.
;)
it will work wonders for your google listing ;D ;D
Thanks Boo :)
Yep - I just thought I was some bloke getting on with earning a living! - but the google rank won't hurt either - you can't buy link building as good as this lol ;)
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I think andykirk's reply is a very respectfull & knowlagable one. Can't wait to hear the replies from those who assumed he was a dole cheating, cowboy piece of scum who hadn't a clue about safety? ;D
Hi macmac
Thanks - I am now a 3rd generation window cleaner (if it was good enough for my Father and his Father, it's good enough for me!) and felt I had to fight my corner a little ;-)
Andy
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I think andykirk's reply is a very respectfull & knowlagable one. Can't wait to hear the replies from those who assumed he was a dole cheating, cowboy piece of scum who hadn't a clue about safety? ;D
Hi macmac
Thanks - I am now a 3rd generation window cleaner (if it was good enough for my Father and his Father, it's good enough for me!) and felt I had to fight my corner a little ;-)
Andy
Yeah, well done mate. I've been wfp for over 5 years but still do plenty of trad too. Ladders is a very bad word on here Andy. Just one mention can transform you into a scumbag! ;D
No way can you compete on "professionalism" with all these wfp'ers about! ;)
I think you've shut a few people up tonight ;D
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I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony
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I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony
Hi old timer
Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued ;)
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Hi Andy, just wondering how you go about cleaning 2nd and 3rd floor windows? I hope its not with a ladder.
As for pictures on the your websites home page, why not have a picture of yourself, then have someone take a picture of you whilst you are working.
I am not having a dig Andy, just trying to help you out.
Matt
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I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony
Hi old timer
Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued ;)
Well that is interesting.I sell some of my photography artwork to stock sites and was not aware that even a low res pic with a watermark could be used for commercial sites without the permission and purchase from the site.If this is the case why do we get knocked back on submitting so many images and only get paid miniscule sums in commission.... ::)
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well said andy!there does seem to be an air of smugness with some of these WFPolers and some were trad for years!others cant even use trad!! ;Dive been toying with the idea of staying trad but ive never tryed WFP and some of these guys were trad for as long as me(15 yrs) and say itll be the best thing u will ever do for ur business.all these guys cant be wrong can they?i use ladderstoppers/mitts and extension poles for 2nd and 3rd floor windows but im thinking custys will prefer WFP as they get frames cleaned everytime.also they say wfp is easier for conny roofs,fascias/soffit/gutter cleaning and much faster on bigger houses/leaded/georgian etc.i do agree that trad is v.simple/straightforward/low hassle/low overheads etc.but does it clean better?mmm.....not sure.i do know that WFP is getting a bad name ALL OVER THE COUNTRY!!.NOT JUST ON HERE!ive had a few custys who have told me about WFPOLERS making a mess of windows!always spots/runs etc.does make me question whether im doing the right thing in getting a system :-\ :-\
regards dazmond
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I've picked up quite a few of my customers because they are not happy with WFP, All say the same about leaving water spots and runs. Can only be a good thing for me while i'm building up my round. If they ever do ban ladders??!!, i'll advertise as a bungalow specialist, more bungalows than houses in my area ;D
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.If this is the case why do we get knocked back on submitting so many images and only get paid miniscule sums in commission.... ::)
Because they are in it to make money and you offer the goods.
Its business.
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You obviously dont understand how stock image sites work.
We sell pictures to the sites and receive commission depending on the volumne of pics sold,also what resolution is downloaded.If anyone could use the pics as showcased on the sites with the watermarks then photographers who manage to have their work accepted(and believe me this is extremly hard) would be losing out,that is why stock imagery is closely monitored by the sites.Getty images allways pursues image thieves and rightly so...
Thats business...
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I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony
Hi old timer
Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued ;)
Hi Andy
I would read up on this if i was you, without being an expert I think you are still in a position to be prosecuted under copyright law
I have placed a link to istocks website regarding this
http://www.istockphoto.com/license.php
Hope this helps
David
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maybe its somthing in the water is it stolen water then!!!!
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I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony
Hi old timer
Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued ;)
Hi Andy
I would read up on this if i was you, without being an expert I think you are still in a position to be prosecuted under copyright law
I have placed a link to istocks website regarding this
http://www.istockphoto.com/license.php
Hope this helps
David
Correct!
Intellectual Property
All materials (including the organization and presentation of such material) on this Web site (the “Materials”) are the property of iStockphoto and its licensors and may be protected by intellectual property laws including laws relating to copyrights, trade-marks, trade-names, internet domain names, and other similar rights.
Unless you have entered into a separate agreement with iStockphoto, such as a Royalty Free License Agreement, any other use of these Materials without iStockphoto's written permission is prohibited.
The Materials may only be used and copied for your own, non-commercial, personal or educational purposes, provided that the Materials are not modified and that copyright and other intellectual property notices are not deleted. You may not create derivative works from or otherwise exploit the Materials in any way.
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I'm just waiting for Glyn to comment now IP rights have been mentioned!! ;)
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hi Andy,
Join the guild there's less hassle there
http://www.mgwc.org/ ;) ;)
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hi Andy,
Join the guild there's less hassle there
http://www.mgwc.org/ ;) ;)
Cheers Boo - done it :)
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Hi Andy, just wondering how you go about cleaning 2nd and 3rd floor windows? I hope its not with a ladder.
As for pictures on the your websites home page, why not have a picture of yourself, then have someone take a picture of you whilst you are working.
I am not having a dig Andy, just trying to help you out.
Matt
Hi Matt
As I said earlier, I do a full risk assessment on every individual house and if the window comes within the safe working height of the ladder's reach then I am happy to do them (The largest ladder I use is a Class 1, 4.5 metre triple section with an extended height of almost 12 metres). If a window does not come within the height then I give the option of doing the all other windows and leaving those out, or I refer them to a WFP operator (I don't recommend anyone in particular as I don't know to what standard they work). There are other factors to consider too, rather than just height - for example a couple of weeks ago I looked at 2nd floor flat where the ladders would have reached. The customer was prepared to pay handsomely to clean windows which had not been reached in many a year and my ladders would have reached, but I had concerns that the ladders would have to be placed on a busy high street and there would be significant risk to the public from falling items from above and to the operator from possibility of the ladders being disturbed even with coning the area off. I passed up the job and gave them the numbers of 3 local operators who I knew used WFP instead.
Love the idea of using pictures of us working :) My brother law is a bit of an amateur photographer - think I'll give him a call and set up a photo shoot for next week! ;)
Cheers
Andy