Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Small but perfectley formed on November 23, 2009, 02:42:37 pm
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Hi Ian can i ask how did you develope your business in to a brand so that you could fanchise it.
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Hello Jason,
I would be interested to here the answer to your question from Ian.
Hope to see it soon.
Kind regards. :)
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Hi fellers,
Firstly, I had a couple of years off from window cleaning in the late 90's and bought a franchise cleaning out deep fryers in commercial kitchens. Don't ask me why - I must have been having a (late) mid life crisis ;D
It was a total mistake - after three years I walked away from it and came back to window cleaning......
BUT..........I learned a lot about how franchises work. I also read Jim Penman's book (Jim is the mastemind behind Jim's Mowing - a world wide franchise with about three thousand franchisees all mowing grass :o)
Then I took about three years just to think about everything I wanted to achieve, and made notes of every idea that occurred to me. Eventually I had enough ideas to formulate a plan, and my franchise business was born.
Got to go now - the dog wants a walk.
If you can think of any questions, feel free to ask.
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Ian are all your jobs done by WFP?
I do think your idea is the best so far in the window clenaing industry i belive there are other franchises that dont give you the customers like Ian does.
Could i possibly ask if you charge them for the franchise like with others you can pay many thousends before you start paying your royalties?.
Also how did you franchise the business or is it just a franchise agreement i thought you had to go to franchise solictors to change to a franchised company? but that may not be the case just what i thought.
Dave
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why didnt the fryer franchise work out ? when you left,who do you think carried on doing it ?
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Dave:
99% of our jobs are WFP.
Of course I charge a franchise fee, there wouldn't be any point in doing it if I didn't ;D
All new franchisees pay an 'up front' fee, but a lot of that is to cover the equipment, uniform, van signwriting, training and initial customer base. After that there is an ongoing 'royalty' - a percentage of the franchisees turnover that they pay to us in return for as much work as they want and services such as marketing, round record maintenance, and all the help, advice and guidance that they want. I also supply pure water and I keep a good stock of spares so they can rely on having spares available as and when they need them.
As to how I franchised the business, I just went ahead and did it. ;D
You don't have to 'go to a franchise solicitor' - as with most things you can do it yourself. The important thing is to define the relationship - I work for the franchisees, they don't work for me. That's why they pay me. That's the difference between franchising and sub-contracting, if the relationship is properly set up, there can be no possibility of the franchisees being deemed to be employees. The same can't be said of sub-contracting
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Ian,
Could you build a successfull franchise set-up out of £5k a weeks worth of work?
I havent got that.....yet ;) but was wondering just how much you need.
Dean
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why didnt the fryer franchise work out ? when you left,who do you think carried on doing it ?
It didn't work out because the Franchisor didn't give a hoot about the franchisees. That was my 'lesson no 1' - I decided that my franchisees come first - it is of paramount importance to me that my franchisees are happy and satisfied with the service they get from me.
Also the work was disgusting :P I went home every night smelling of chip fat and covered in grease.
The business is still thriving - I see their vans about and it obviously suits other people, just not me!
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dean thats about 260k , if they wanted 45k each you have five franchises and some work left for you.
making 20% that over 40k a year.
Ian a question for you.....what happens with the vat???
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dean thats about 260k , if they wanted 45k each you have five franchises and some work left for you.
making 20% that over 40k a year.
Ian a question for you.....what happens with the vat???
That's right, Ronnie. When I took on my first franchisee I had about £1,200 a week on my books. I passed £400 a week to the first franchisee, then started canvassing to build his work load up to the level he asked me for. When I got there, I took on my second franchisee and gave him £200 a week (leaving me about £600 plus the royalties from my first franchisee) and carried on building his round for him.
And so on.
As to the VAT: Each franchisee is an independant business owner and so does not qualify for VAT until he/she reaches the limit. The same is true for me - my turnover is the royalties and franchise fees I receive plus the value of any window cleaning I do myself so unless I exceed the limit I do not have to register.
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thanks Ian.
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Of course, that's what franchising means
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Ian,
Do you have a problem with your guys messing you about with payment?
Is there anything secured on their houses or personal property if they refused to pay you and took the customers on as their own?
Dean
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Ian how do you go about making sure they declare everything do you get your loyalties??
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Ian,
Do you have a problem with your guys messing you about with payment?
Is there anything secured on their houses or personal property if they refused to pay you and took the customers on as their own?
Dean
This is where the agreement comes in, and is why I had it re-written by a franchise solicitor. They enter into the agreement and are bound by the terms so if they didn't pay or tried to steal my customers I would take them to court.
The real disincentive is that they know they're on to a good thing. They all have good viable and profitable businesses and we succeed because we are well known and established in our area (Seven sign written vans, lots of local advertising etc). Taking my customers wouldn't be as easy as you might think, and for them to start again from scratch with no customers would be very difficult.
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Ian how do you go about making sure they declare everything do you get your loyalties??
I use a certain amount of discretion and common sense. In my agreement it says that I am entitled to my royalties on everything the franchisee turns over. In practice I only insist on my cut of the regular repeat jobs that I provide (or that the franchisee acquires in the course of running his business as these are also my jobs as stated in the agreement) . If a customer was to ask a franchisee to (for instance) clean the gutter/soffit/fascia as a 'one off' then I have no objection to them doing that, and pocketing the money without telling me PROVIDING THAT they still complete the work I provide. If I were to quote for that sort of work and pass it on to the franchisee then I expect my royalties.
As to doing 'foreigners' on a regular basis - everyone tries it on at least once but sooner or later I find out - the customer will contact us as our number is the one on all the vans and paperwork, so if a 'foreign' customer wanted to contact the franchisee for any reason, they would call us first. We then find out that franchisee 'A' has been doing a job for X number of months without it appearing on their list.
Whoops ;D
A gentle reminder of what would happen if I were to terminate their agreement usually results in (surprise surprise) several 'new' jobs being declared over the next couple of weeks ;D ;D
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Would you compare it to renting out rounds?
The difference being they all have the same business name and you provide the van and equipment, support etc.
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Would you compare it to renting out rounds?
The difference being they all have the same business name and you provide the van and equipment, support etc.
If you rent out a round it is by definition a 'week by week' arrangement with no formal binding agreement and no set time scale.
The essence of franchising is the Agreement - a comprehensive document setting out all the terms of the arrangement and imposing certain obligations on both the franchisee and the franchisor. It is a legal, enforceable agreement designed to protect all parties and to establish a strong viable business format.
If you rent a round, you could come and go as you please but if you enter into a franchise agreement it is a long term binding commitment
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Hi Ian
You have povided some excellent advice on this thread and I'm sure you have much more to give. Time to write a book on franchising methinks and add even more to your retirement pot ;D
John
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I used to rent out rounds and had a signed agreement with those renting that they would have to stick at it for a minimum of 6 months.
Like you I also was of the idea that the better you look after them, providing more work etc. the longer they stay and everyone's happy.
Hats off to you, if you are going to create a window cleaning franchise then providing initial work and continuing to feed the franchisee work sounds like the best idea. "You don;t bite off the hand that feeds you" as they say.
I looked into franchising at that time but decided it was going to be too complicated - all the legal stuff put me off.
Its a hassle when people move away or move on and you need to find someone else to take over. Each time it happens the customers are unsettled and the round sufffers. I guess thats where the binding agreement is helpful.
In the end I decided to simplify and packed it in.
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But the differance between renting out a round and franchising is differant.
A franchisee would pay an initial investment for the franchise therefore moving away or getting bored or getting another job would become less likely than those who just rented a round.
I know Jim Penman in australia,a remarkable man with a remarkable business vision.I am sorry to say that i have never met Ian Lancaster,but i bet there are similarities.
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very intresting reading.
out of intrest on a different thread Ian, dai mentioned (on stigma topic) a post you did 1 to 2 yrs ago on how you built your business up again i think it was after you dumped the franchise fryer job.
Done a search can't find, Ian, anyone got a link.
thanka Lee
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Ian why dont you write a simple book about your franchise system.
I think many window cleaners would be prepared to buy it if the cost was reasonable this would also generate another income stream. ??? ;) ;D
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But the differance between renting out a round and franchising is differant.
A franchisee would pay an initial investment for the franchise therefore moving away or getting bored or getting another job would become less likely than those who just rented a round.
Also a big difference is that the franchisee owns his business. If he wants to give it up for any reason he can sell it. A good franchise with a proven sustained profit can be worth many thousands of pounds.
This doesn't affect the ownership of the individual jobs, they still remain the property of the franchisor but the right to use them is where the value lies.
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I know Jim Penman in australia,a remarkable man with a remarkable business vision.I am sorry to say that i have never met Ian Lancaster,but i bet there are similarities.
Blimey :o :o I wouldn't claim to be anything like Jim's league. You're right about the similarities though, I believe we both have big noses ;D ;D ;D
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Ian why dont you write a simple book about your franchise system.
I think many window cleaners would be prepared to buy it if the cost was reasonable this would also generate another income stream. ??? ;) ;D
I might do that one day, but the list of jobs to do after I retire gets longer by the hour ::) ;D ;D
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Wouldnt mind being in a position to do this myself in 10 years time, would beat having to employ someone :) On the other hand would it be possible to get someone to 'buy' into your business name and say for arguements sake run their own business from that? Or is it better to go down the same road as yourself?
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Hi Ian
You have povided some excellent advice on this thread and I'm sure you have much more to give. Time to write a book on franchising methinks and add even more to your retirement pot ;D
John
Hi John,
Glad to see you've made it at last ::)
Hope your ex-firm was generous with the redundancy :P
Regarding a book, see my post above re Jason Greens post.
Cheers,
Ian
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Wouldnt mind being in a position to do this myself in 10 years time, would beat having to employ someone :) On the other hand would it be possible to get someone to 'buy' into your business name and say for arguements sake run their own business from that? Or is it better to go down the same road as yourself?
Surely 'buying in' to your business name is just franchising without a formal agreement? How would you make any money from it? You could ask an initial up-front fee but without some commitment from you that wouldn't be much, and then there's no reason for your 'buyer-in' to pay you anything else :-\
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yeah like i say im no expert thats where you come in :) does your franchisees all operate in the initial areas?? Or if say for example my business grew that much that i needed to have another van and an operator and he came from outside my locality where there wasnt a window cleaner could a franchise option work there if i 'helped' him to build a round and agreed a fee with him for every so many houses etc?
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Ian what do you do with regards of payment?
If customers send you a cheque to your business name "ian lancaster window cleaner" how do you pass this on to the franchise.
Dave
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yeah like i say im no expert thats where you come in :) does your franchisees all operate in the initial areas?? Or if say for example my business grew that much that i needed to have another van and an operator and he came from outside my locality where there wasnt a window cleaner could a franchise option work there if i 'helped' him to build a round and agreed a fee with him for every so many houses etc?
Certainly - my franchise is unusual in as much as it's all local to me. Most franchisees are granted exclusive areas because they need that area to find there own customers. Mine only works because I find the jobs, so there could be several franchisees all working in the same street, but not competing against each other.
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Ian what do you do with regards of payment?
If customers send you a cheque to your business name "ian lancaster window cleaner" how do you pass this on to the franchise.
Dave
Easy ;)
They are all called "......(their name)...trading as Ian Lancaster Window Cleaner" so their bank accounts can accept cheques as above.
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Do you find though that your business would be seen as very professional as you have franchisees working using your name?
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Do you find though that your business would be seen as very professional as you have franchisees working using your name?
I sincerely hope so :)
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Don't know if Ian is still around or whether he's enjoying his retirement but wondered how you came up with your agreement. Did you have something to work off or was it from ideas you had whilst thinking the format through?
Thanks.
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Don't know if Ian is still around or whether he's enjoying his retirement but wondered how you came up with your agreement. Did you have something to work off or was it from ideas you had whilst thinking the format through?
Thanks.
I'm still around :)
My first agreement was one I wrote myself. It took me about three years of thinking and refining, based on the agreement I had when I owned the fryer cleaning franchise. I tried to think of every single issue that might arise, what my responsibilities are to the franchisees, what theirs are to me, etc.
It was fine for the first three years after I appointed my initial franchisee, but as the network grew I decided I ought to have proper legal advice. I'm glad I did, even though it cost me some thousands of pounds, as there were issues with my terminology which meant that had a disagreement gone to court, various parts of my agreement were not enforceable and therefore the entire agreement could have been thrown out.
Now I have a proper watertight agreement drawn up by a professional franchise solicitor which gives both me and my franchisees the protection we need.
The other important document is the Franchise Manual. This sets out how the franchisee is to run his business in great detail. It is intended to show the franchisee how the agreement applies to him in practical terms, and to ensure there are no misunderstandings in the way our business activities relate between franchisees and franchisor. This also took me some years to perfect, and even now issues arise that no-one had come across before, so by agreement with all concerned the manual is being continually updated.
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Thanks Ian
I saw your presentation at windex several years ago and I probably now have more than enough work to think about franchising but it is quite a daunting prospect. your answers on this forum are a great help to all I'm sure, if people are thinking of going down this route.
If you don't mind me asking...how did you set your royalty fee? Simply working out what time you would be spending on an ongoing basis or some other way?
Thanks
Andy
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Thanks Ian
I saw your presentation at windex several years ago and I probably now have more than enough work to think about franchising but it is quite a daunting prospect. your answers on this forum are a great help to all I'm sure, if people are thinking of going down this route.
If you don't mind me asking...how did you set your royalty fee? Simply working out what time you would be spending on an ongoing basis or some other way?
Thanks
Andy
I wanted to make a fairly good income from this, as it is my pension and apart from the State pittance it's all I have to retire on. I decided that if I could offer a gross turnover that would allow a more than decent income after deduction of 20% royalties then I had to be sure of giving value for money.
Firstly I guarantee to provide as much work as they want (which means as much as they can handle, obviously I don't provide more work if they can't complete what they've already got) then I provide pure water, I carry a comprehensive stock of spares for which I don't charge any more than they cost me, I'm on call virtually 24/7 to sort out problems etc etc.
20% is the figure I decided on for all the above reasons. No other franchise guarantees to provide all the work (as far as I know) and most provide very little. I wanted an easy to run set-up so made my target 6 franchisees - 20% from them less my running costs leaves me (on a good week!!) about what I used to earn as a fit youngster working full time.
Having said I only want 6 franchisees, I already have a 'Master' franchisee with a licence to replicate my system in an adjoining area - he has the right to appoint his own franchisees in that area and draw a royalty from them. As he is my franchisee I still draw a royalty from him so I get a small percentage from any franchisees he appoints.
I'm not actively looking for master franchisees, but if any come knocking on my door I'm ready to listen.
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wow...thanks for the answer Ian, real food for thought. Trying to digest all the factors that have to be involved, think I need a lie down :D
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Hi fellers,
Firstly, I had a couple of years off from window cleaning in the late 90's and bought a franchise cleaning out deep fryers in commercial kitchens. Don't ask me why - I must have been having a (late) mid life crisis ;D
It was a total mistake - after three years I walked away from it and came back to window cleaning......
BUT..........I learned a lot about how franchises work. I also read Jim Penman's book (Jim is the mastemind behind Jim's Mowing - a world wide franchise with about three thousand franchisees all mowing grass :o)
Then I took about three years just to think about everything I wanted to achieve, and made notes of every idea that occurred to me. Eventually I had enough ideas to formulate a plan, and my franchise business was born.
Got to go now - the dog wants a walk.
If you can think of any questions, feel free to ask.
???????????????????? http://www.jimpenmanthetruth2.com/
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Well, there you go ::)
I've not seen anything about this before, but just because Jim Penman seems to have slipped into the brown sticky stuff, doesn't mean his original concept is no longer viable.
Maybe the whole world wide set-up became uncontrollable, I don't know, but in my own modest version, I can assure you the business model works, and works extremely well.
I've recently appointed franchisee no. 6, with a guaranteed starting turnover of £200 per week. In his second week he turned over £690 ::)
In my adverts I say 'we keep our promises' - I rest my case.
My Master Franchisee is also living up to expectations, his first (sub) franchisee now has a customer base in excess of £1,000/week and (sub) franchisee no. 2 is joining us late this week ;)
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I love your ideas Ian and am glad they are working for you, Its great when a plan works! Im interested that M Henderson admires your plan as I always have admired what he did renting the rounds, however Im confident that your right and that franchising is the way to go, my 2 franchisees are working brilliantly for me although im not interested in a solicitor, I have little faith in written agreements I prefer Greg Normans style. He's never celebrated contracts I agree I prefer a good mans word and a handshake ;) Not employing scumbags or doleys is the key I feel. Im finding married blokes with kids in their 30s have been my 2 success story's so far...
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ian you mention that if your franchisee,s were to quit they could sell up.
do they then sell it private for as much cash as they can get or do you dictate the price it would sell for and give the franchisee there original stake back?
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I have read most of Ian’s post with interest and find a few things which people seem to miss. You need to build a sound business with a good image in the public eye. With tried and tested system before you can franchises it. If you just want money for jam and don’t wants to work for it, you do not have anything to franchise. Ian has become many a vital link in the chain all his franchises business and gives and contributes lot to there businesses.He plays a important roll with which they could not do without.
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bump ...
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bump ...
grass hopper,you did not find window cleaning.......it found you
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well done ian your system sounds good and to make 20% without the agro of employing is brilliant, my question is do you not find that when you first sell the franchise and they are getting work you provide then they are very happy to part with 20% but does their attitude not change when they feel they are finding their own work and you are then taking 20% from this, also you mention that you provide the work do you employ a canvasser to find the jobs.
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bump ...
grass hopper,you did not find window cleaning.......it found you
so true Bob ;)
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Is it true that the franchisee pays a 20% royalty on all work done ??? ???
This can't be right after tax, Time spent doing admin, chasing depts, van costs ect they will be working for near to the average wage.
What i believe to be the biggest cleaning franchise in the world only has a 8-6% fee http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html# (http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html#)
Paul
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Is it true that the franchisee pays a 20% royalty on all work done
What i believe to be the biggest cleaning franchise in the world on has a 8-6% fee http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html#
This can't be right after tax, Time spent doing admin, chasing depts, van costs ect they will be working for near to the average wage.
Paul
Depends on your prices ;D
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Ian provides all there work hence 20%. They never have too find any work themselves.
The 20% is a business expense so will be de-ducted along with other expenses from turnover then they will pay there tax on the remainder.
;D
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Is it true that the franchisee pays a 20% royalty on all work done ??? ???
This can't be right after tax, Time spent doing admin, chasing depts, van costs ect they will be working for near to the average wage.
What i believe to be the biggest cleaning franchise in the world only has a 8-6% fee http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html# (http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html#)
Paul
As stated above, depends on your prices.
Also, places that charge lower percentages often insist, for example, that you buy all your equipment and supplies through them.
Finally, most franchises set you up in business then you're on your own. So, imagine you're set up with kit, van, uniform, etc, then on Monday morning you have to find customer number one. Not quite the same as what's being offered here.
Vin
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Ian how do you go about making sure they declare everything do you get your loyalties??
I use a certain amount of discretion and common sense. In my agreement it says that I am entitled to my royalties on everything the franchisee turns over. In practice I only insist on my cut of the regular repeat jobs that I provide (or that the franchisee acquires in the course of running his business as these are also my jobs as stated in the agreement) . If a customer was to ask a franchisee to (for instance) clean the gutter/soffit/fascia as a 'one off' then I have no objection to them doing that, and pocketing the money without telling me PROVIDING THAT they still complete the work I provide. If I were to quote for that sort of work and pass it on to the franchisee then I expect my royalties.
As to doing 'foreigners' on a regular basis - everyone tries it on at least once but sooner or later I find out - the customer will contact us as our number is the one on all the vans and paperwork, so if a 'foreign' customer wanted to contact the franchisee for any reason, they would call us first. We then find out that franchisee 'A' has been doing a job for X number of months without it appearing on their list.
Whoops ;D
A gentle reminder of what would happen if I were to terminate their agreement usually results in (surprise surprise) several 'new' jobs being declared over the next couple of weeks ;D ;D
I just love it ;D
Well done ian :)
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I never thought of it like that.. On top of paying out for the franchise you have the added 20% each month royalty so in theory working nearly a week a month for nothing. It would take ages before you start to earn profit after paying for the franchise and the royalty fee. Its no suprise why so few succeed with window cleaning franchises. I only know of ian lancaster who has mastered it.
If the franchise costs 10k, and the round is say £500 a week thats £4800 every year royalty on top of paying 10k or what ever the franchise cost is. After expencies in the first year you would be lucky to break even surely??.
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what else would the franchise need to buy?
everything is provided advertising etc payment methods etc.. he would just have to maintain his van.
I belive all the people who are using ian's sytem seem to be working good. the other franchise's out there for window cleaning that u spend 15k 20k on and then start with no customers.. to me thats a rip off!! and even then you will still pay a weekly or monthly royalty % of turnover maybe not 20%
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I never thought of it like that.. On top of paying out for the franchise you have the added 20% each month royalty so in theory working nearly a week a month for nothing. It would take ages before you start to earn profit after paying for the franchise and the royalty fee. Its no suprise why so few succeed with window cleaning franchises. I only know of ian lancaster who has mastered it.
If the franchise costs 10k, and the round is say £500 a week thats £4800 every year royalty on top of paying 10k or what ever the franchise cost is. After expencies in the first year you would be lucky to break even surely??.
That’s the way you look at it, if you or any one want to start any business, it will take at least 5 years before you can see some benefit, I know this because I have has 3 different business prior window cleaning.
In other hand, with ian Lancaster franchisee you have a ready made business and you can start making good money from day one, and its up to the franchisee to make a progress at it too.
If franchisee was such a bad idea, there wouldn’t be so many of them about these days, just look at a few who are opening 2-3 new shops every day, even in this climate.
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I
Is it true that the franchisee pays a 20% royalty on all work done ??? ???
This can't be right after tax, Time spent doing admin, chasing depts, van costs ect they will be working for near to the average wage.
What i believe to be the biggest cleaning franchise in the world only has a 8-6% fee http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html# (http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/fishwindowcleaningservicesinc/282348-0.html#)
Paul
You've only posted one half the picture. You forgot the 30k to 50k initial fee with the example you posted which is far more than any under the Ian Lancaster system.
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I never thought of it like that.. On top of paying out for the franchise you have the added 20% each month royalty so in theory working nearly a week a month for nothing. It would take ages before you start to earn profit after paying for the franchise and the royalty fee. Its no suprise why so few succeed with window cleaning franchises. I only know of ian lancaster who has mastered it.
If the franchise costs 10k, and the round is say £500 a week thats £4800 every year royalty on top of paying 10k or what ever the franchise cost is. After expencies in the first year you would be lucky to break even surely??.
I can see my value to my franchisee easily. After 1 year trading I had about 20k of work (yearly value). Last night I did an income forecast for my franchisee and after 15 months he has 45k. How many sole traders, starting from scratch, could amass that much work in 15 months? How many have that after 5 years even?
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I never thought of it like that.. On top of paying out for the franchise you have the added 20% each month royalty so in theory working nearly a week a month for nothing. It would take ages before you start to earn profit after paying for the franchise and the royalty fee. Its no suprise why so few succeed with window cleaning franchises. I only know of ian lancaster who has mastered it.
If the franchise costs 10k, and the round is say £500 a week thats £4800 every year royalty on top of paying 10k or what ever the franchise cost is. After expencies in the first year you would be lucky to break even surely??.
I can see my value to my franchisee easily. After 1 year trading I had about 20k of work (yearly value). Last night I did an income forecast for my franchisee and after 15 months he has 45k. How many sole traders, starting from scratch, could amass that much work in 15 months? How many have that after 5 years even?
well said. :)
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I never thought of it like that.. On top of paying out for the franchise you have the added 20% each month royalty so in theory working nearly a week a month for nothing. It would take ages before you start to earn profit after paying for the franchise and the royalty fee. Its no suprise why so few succeed with window cleaning franchises. I only know of ian lancaster who has mastered it.
If the franchise costs 10k, and the round is say £500 a week thats £4800 every year royalty on top of paying 10k or what ever the franchise cost is. After expencies in the first year you would be lucky to break even surely??.
I can see my value to my franchisee easily. After 1 year trading I had about 20k of work (yearly value). Last night I did an income forecast for my franchisee and after 15 months he has 45k. How many sole traders, starting from scratch, could amass that much work in 15 months? How many have that after 5 years even?
45k over 15 months is around 35k for 12 months. Take off 20 percent and the buying in fee then im right to say first year would be a sruggle.
I dont know how much it costs to buy into a window cleaning franchise but im guessing around 10k.. Now if the franchisee had he's head screwed on he would have done research and see that he could buy a round for 3x(3k of monthly work for 9k. Or pay a canvasser 6k for 3k of work and have 4 k left to buy van and system.
Im not saying its a bad move to go into a franchise but what you said about how few can be on 45k every 15 months after 5 years of trading is silly.
The way i see it is if i had 10k id buy a round instead of paying to work for someone else!.
Only my view on the subject if was me starting out in window cleaning as most choose wc to work for themselfs annd not anyone else.
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No, I didn't explain it very well. After 1 year trading I had about 1700 a month. After 15 months trading my franchisee has nearly 3.8k a month. Everybody says "buy a round" but the fact is decent paying rounds on your doorstep very rarely come up for sale. As for pay 6k for 3k canvassed work, anybody who has ever done it knows a chunk of that (maybe as much as half) would be gone in a few months. I saw gdroundbuilders get 10 on my estate, 2 cancelled before he even got home. I think only about 3/4 are still active.
I charge 5k initially which includes all the gear apart from a van. To get to my 3.8k you would have to pay 12-20k just for the work alone. Another 1k for the equipment so you need to invest about 15k. Paying me 5k and a percentage seems attractive compared to a minimum 15k layout.
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Hi Mick,
As Ian has said many times before Franchising is not for everyone, in fact like you I could never understand why anyone would buy one. However 4 years an 5 Franchisees later I get it, it comes down to experience in all areas of business, having someone provide the answer, support and motivation required to make the round a success, camaraderie with other franchisee's in addition to marketing, customers, price structures, websites, branding, call centre etc, etc, etc. Most important of all the Franchisee must see value in the Franchise/service provided and that all comes down to price/personal interpretation hence it's not for everyone.
John
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No, I didn't explain it very well. After 1 year trading I had about 1700 a month. After 15 months trading my franchisee has nearly 3.8k a month. Everybody says "buy a round" but the fact is decent paying rounds on your doorstep very rarely come up for sale. As for pay 6k for 3k canvassed work, anybody who has ever done it knows a chunk of that (maybe as much as half) would be gone in a few months. I saw gdroundbuilders get 10 on my estate, 2 cancelled before he even got home. I think only about 3/4 are still active.
I charge 5k initially which includes all the gear apart from a van. To get to my 3.8k you would have to pay 12-20k just for the work alone. Another 1k for the equipment so you need to invest about 15k. Paying me 5k and a percentage seems attractive compared to a minimum 15k layout.
The thing is this most of the people on here own their own rounds/business as i do so i could never dream of giving someone 5k then 20% ( £9,120 ) of my 46k ( 12x £3.800 ) yearly turnover but thats just me.
Their are loads that do want a franchise but I'm not one of them i want to build a business for my own family not joe bloggs window cleaning :D :D
I would like to look at this closer & would love to get ahold of a fish cleaning franchise info pack it would be an interesting read but they don't post them to the uk :( :(
Paul
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Hi Paul (Erith)
I'm not so sure Fish is such a good/ fair comparison as it is a management franchise. The correct comparison would be to compare the operators of a Fish franchise i.e. the guys cleaning the windows with a Franchisee operating under Ian's system. I think under these conditions the Franchisee would be better off.
Hope this makes sense
John
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Hi Paul
I take your point, likewise franchising would be a great way for you to expand your business should you wish to do so.
John
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No, I didn't explain it very well. After 1 year trading I had about 1700 a month. After 15 months trading my franchisee has nearly 3.8k a month. Everybody says "buy a round" but the fact is decent paying rounds on your doorstep very rarely come up for sale. As for pay 6k for 3k canvassed work, anybody who has ever done it knows a chunk of that (maybe as much as half) would be gone in a few months. I saw gdroundbuilders get 10 on my estate, 2 cancelled before he even got home. I think only about 3/4 are still active.
I charge 5k initially which includes all the gear apart from a van. To get to my 3.8k you would have to pay 12-20k just for the work alone. Another 1k for the equipment so you need to invest about 15k. Paying me 5k and a percentage seems attractive compared to a minimum 15k layout.
The thing is this most of the people on here own their own rounds/business as i do so i could never dream of giving someone 5k then 20% ( £9,120 ) of my 46k ( 12x £3.800 ) yearly turnover but thats just me.
Their are loads that do want a franchise but I'm not one of them i want to build a business for my own family not joe bloggs window cleaning :D :D
I would like to look at this closer & would love to get ahold of a fish cleaning franchise info pack it would be an interesting read but they don't post them to the uk :( :(
Paul
Sounds like your doing well now paul.. Keep it up mate.
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No, I didn't explain it very well. After 1 year trading I had about 1700 a month. After 15 months trading my franchisee has nearly 3.8k a month. Everybody says "buy a round" but the fact is decent paying rounds on your doorstep very rarely come up for sale. As for pay 6k for 3k canvassed work, anybody who has ever done it knows a chunk of that (maybe as much as half) would be gone in a few months. I saw gdroundbuilders get 10 on my estate, 2 cancelled before he even got home. I think only about 3/4 are still active.
I charge 5k initially which includes all the gear apart from a van. To get to my 3.8k you would have to pay 12-20k just for the work alone. Another 1k for the equipment so you need to invest about 15k. Paying me 5k and a percentage seems attractive compared to a minimum 15k layout.
The thing is this most of the people on here own their own rounds/business as i do so i could never dream of giving someone 5k then 20% ( £9,120 ) of my 46k ( 12x £3.800 ) yearly turnover but thats just me.
Their are loads that do want a franchise but I'm not one of them i want to build a business for my own family not joe bloggs window cleaning :D :D
I would like to look at this closer & would love to get ahold of a fish cleaning franchise info pack it would be an interesting read but they don't post them to the uk :( :(
Paul
Sounds like your doing well now paul.. Keep it up mate.
I wasn't talking about my actual turnover i don't do that on here, i was talking about the figures spoken about by davids3511 ;D ;D
Business is great though none stop work coming in every week but i'm off for two weeks soon due to a key hole hip operation should be fun when the phone and emails are still coming in.
I should get a better price by quoting while on crutches :D :D
Paul
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I thing that makes Ian a success in his franchise are well thought out franchise with a good business.If one reads between the lines you will observe his dedication and commitment to his franchisees.
So many do not even a good proven business of there own, never mind a franchise able business plan. But yet still want to sell this to someone as a franchise, easy money business.
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Wow :o
Just noticed this old thread (2009) was resurrected while Lise and I were away. (North Devon - 30th May to 7th June - didn't we do well? Picked the only wall-to-wall sunshine week this year ;D)
My thanks for all the positive comments.
Mick:
I would never expect someone like you to consider buying into a franchise, in fact I would be very suspicious of your motives if you were to approach me with the suggestion ;D You are right, it takes time to recoup the initial investment, according to government figures anything up to five years before break-even.
But the sort of people who buy franchises like mine are not like you. They tend to be people who have spent many years in run-of-the-mill jobs and are then either thoroughly demoralised or (even worse) made redundant. They have neither the inclination nor the drive to start their own businesses BUT when offered the chance to own their own lucrative business with very little input from them and absolutely no necessity to go out selling their services they see it as a golden opportunity.
As John Willan said, franchising is not for everyone, but there are, and always will be, people such as I describe above who will feel happy and comfortable operating their own business under the umbrella of an established brand but who would be unable to imagine themselves doing it in total isolation with the ever present possibility of failure.
Just imagine, if you had a few franchisees out there while you are undergoing your surgery and recuperating, your business would still be trading, and earning you money ;)
Best of luck by the way - I hope all goes well and wish you a speedy recovery.
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You are the man when it comes to window cleaning franchises in the uk and it is still something i will be looking at in the future but it scares me the potential damage a bad franchisee could do to my business.
But the growth it could bring is also very exciting.
Hope you had a nice holiday Ian
Thanks Paul
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You are the man when it comes to window cleaning franchises in the uk and it is still something i will be looking at in the future but it scares me the potential damage a bad franchisee could do to my business.
But the growth it could bring is also very exciting.
Hope you had a nice holiday Ian
Thanks Paul
staff could cause more damage to your business because they dont care and just want the wage at the end of the week so to speak.
a franchisee could loose a lot, plus its his business he would need to treat it as his business and its in his mind set from the off i imagine. you still got to train them well obv.
that's my view.