Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pdh on December 02, 2003, 04:21:35 pm
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IM DEFO HAVING A POLE SYSTEM FOR NXT YEAR.PROBLEM IM HAVING IS WHICH ONE TUCKER OR REACH N WASH.TUCKER SYSTEM COMING IN A LOT LESS £ THAN REACH N WASH.IM AFTER A 300 LTR SYSTEM TO GO IN MY KANGOO VAN.CAN ANY USERS OF EITHER OF THESE SYSTEMS GIVE ME SOME ADVICE ON SERVICEING,PROS AND CONS ETC.IM HAVING A DEMO OF THE TUCKER SYSTEM BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY NEED TO SELL ME ONE SO THERE OPINION ONLY SWINGS ONE WAY.PLEASE HELP ME SOMEONE.IM NOT SLEEPING AT NIGHT THE MRS GETTIN FED UP OF ME GOIN ON N ON.£5000ISH FOR A R N WASH OR 3500 FOR THE TUCKER. CHEERS PAUL.
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Hi darkstar
I was talking to peterf and his systems are cheaper then that .
Have you spoken to him yet worth a call.
http://www.window-tools.com/
Alan
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Hi darkstar
I too have been looking into getting a system and seems they all do the same work, I dont want to pay for a name etc.
and peters system seem to be well made and a hell of alot cheaper I was talking to him a while ago and he gave me a break down of prices on some bits and they are a lot cheaper I surpose he does not have the over heads these big companys have.
but will do the same job.
Alan
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Hi Dirkstar,
I too have have been in contact with peter, although I am more interested in the trolley system that he does as I don't really have enough pole work to justify anything bigger. I asked if I would be able to upgrade it later on into a van system which he said I could, but many people don't bother as the trolley system does exactly the same job. In fact here is the reply to my email to him. I have posted this on an earlier post, sorry for repeating myself everybody else.
I am interested in your trolley system, please could you answer the following questions.
how much will the delivery charge be?
Delivery is included in the price.
If I wish to upgrade to a vanmount system later on, will it be possible just to buy the tank, etc. that I didn't get with the trolley system, and how much would that be likely to be?
Depends on what you want, pretty cheap if you don't upgrade the water treatment part.
You can use your pump box with the van system. 2x250L water tanks linked together + fittings is £200 a frame to secure them in your van is £250.
If I can get close enough to a job, am I right in thinking I could use this while still in the back of my estate instead of building up the trolley?
The trolley is put away with everything on it, you just unchain the handle and put a pin in place, it only take about 10 seconds to take it out the car and start using it.
I live in a hard water area, how much water will filters produce before needing to be replaced, and how much do they cost to replace?
The basic 200gpd system which is around 700L needs prefilters between 4 and 6 months at the cost of £15.00 for both, the DI resin used for polishing off to zero last about the same and costs £5.00. The RO membranes are the expensive part at £90.00 every 2 to 3 years.
I am very interested in this system as I am looking into getting into pole work, but I do not have enough of this work to justify a van mounted system yet. I see the trolley as a good starting point with a view to upgrading, hence the upgrade questions.
Most people with vans that start off with the trolley, have not bothered to upgrade as the trolley does everything a van system does.
Your help is very much appreciated,
No problem, if you have any more questions let me know.
I hope this helps
Rob
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If you want more info. give me a shout : 0870 240 3805 ;)
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Hi Guys
The problem with talking to the manufacturers directly is that you get a biased opinion.
I would personally question anyone who claims to be the cheapest - everyone needs to make a reasonable living and those that aren't making a reasonable margin aren't likely to be around when something needs replacing.
With all due respect to 'those who don't have the overheads' lets not forget what most overheads consist of:
Staff: will the phones get answered when you ring them? will there be someone available to answer a technical question if you have one have? will they actually be able to supply a system if you order one? will there be someone there if you have an invoicing query? would someone actually come to you if you were having problems?
Warehousing: will the parts be in stock when you want them? how quickly can they replace something if it did go wrong? what will happen when the system's a couple of years old - will the parts be available then?
Development: are the company researching and improving their systems all the time? are the company likely to be the first to develop something new? is the system likely to be the most up to date?
These are all things that cost money and, if you don't pay for them, you won't get them!!
Regards
Mike Boxall
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oops- we seem to have 2 identical topics running at once here! The other has now been locked.
Are there any window cleaners who use the commercial reach n wash system.that i may ring just to ask a little advice.cheers paul.
hi dont use reach and wash but use tucker on commercial work very good
still waiting on a tucker booklet,what price are you lookin at for your system .cheers
Pure 2O Ltd. guarantee to beat anybodies price on a like for like quotation !
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give cleantech a call-www.cleantech.co.uk. i,ve purchased equipment on the strength of their value for money,service and advice.mike b is right,companies have to make a profit and cleantech seem to be re-investing some of theirs in buildings to accomodate their growing business.as for not having enough work for pole -you soon will have! - is pure2o a puppy from ott?
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Mike,
I understand the concerns you have put forward with regards to being the cheapest. Please call me or pop in to our installation centre and I will put to rest any of the concerns that you or anybody else may have. It may help you to visit our website if you have not already done so.
Tel : 0870 240 3805
:)
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Hi
Why would it be better to deal with the bigger agent on a pole system because basically the mark up is more expensive so you must think more money being spent on research, bigger property’s etc.
If someone is thinking of expanding into pure water from scratch isn’t it better to test the water on something less expensive If the system peterf is selling is basically the same and ££££ cheaper where he too can offer technical help when needed and also using the equipment for his own work and good reviews from people on this forum
Then why would it be better to deal with a main agent costing ££££ more.
Alan
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I have dealt with alot of the WFP firms I purchased a 40ft pole from OTT and had a problem with it , I sent them e mails and phoned them about it ,as I was not purchasing a full system and spending £1ks they did not have a lot of time for me . I spoke to Peter f and he could not do enough to help, also Cleantech have a good after sales service . I made up my own system to what I need ,with parts from many suppliers.You can see me in action on my web site
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Hi Majestic
By the sounds of your experience the main agent did not care as much as people may think they do.
I have spoken to Peter quite a few times and within the conversations he was not trying to sell me equipment I did not need to meet figures, for overheads but to arrange a system to meet my needs, also conversations went around how I can make my own system.
Would these big companies do that?
I don’t think so,
This sort of service from company’s are far and few between
Alan
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hi all you people who are in a right pickle about pole systems!!
calm down, pure water systems are easy to make, easy to use and can be really cheap. i know, i use and make pole systems. i am a window cleaner like you and was ripped off once, but never again!!!
If you want a cheap system, how does this sound.................
1 x 460 litre baffled tank
1 x de-ioniser vessell
3 x bags of de-ioniser resin
1 x tds (total dissolved solids) monitor
1 x 60 psi 12v shurflo pump
1 x 8 foot pole
1 x 18 foot pole
1 x 30 foot pole
1 x 40 foot pole
only £1300 + vat !!!!!!
you buy the hose, the reels and all the hose lock fittings. i will talk you through it all, you can even get your own tank and baffle it yourself!!
it is simple, dont get sucked in!!
call me at Ultima Cleaning Ltd 01239 621821 or on my mobile 07970 918641
Ben Giles
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I thought i would look into making these pure water systems and start marketing them as a low cost alternative to the main players. I spoke to a friend who was a lawyer about my idea and soon learnt that to make something to use for yourself is ok as an owner user, but you are liable to all sorts of things if you supply equipment and things go wrong.
I had a demonstration from OTT The Reach & Wash System they showed me the crash testing they had undertaken, i didnt think much about it until i saw they had crash tested a competitors system where the tank had let loose. The results were horrific i dont know which system it was they didnt tell me. It put me off building my own system and i wouldnt want to be sued by a grieving family to make a quick buck by making them to sell.
I still have not taken the plunge and got a full system yet.
I see that there are two crash tested systems on the market has anyone seen the pure 20 system, looks ok on there web site.
pure 20 claim they can beat any price with a crash tested system it sounds to good to be true. :o
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bengiles is spot on. used to work for one of the companies mentioned as workshop manager but now work for myself with my own self built system.
its easy to do and a damn site cheaper than paying the earth to get them to do it. Make sure your tank is bolted through your chassis and you wont have any problems. If anyone needs any help or advice leave me a message and hopefully i can help.
genesis_window_specialist@yahoo.co.uk
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Ive used Tucker for 3 years no problems with them at all.
The biggest reason i went with those is because their poles go upto 80 feet and i dont think the other pole manufacturers go up over 45 feet but i cant be sure.
Imagine a carbon fibre pole that high....be like a fishing rod..You hardly get a bend in Tuckers and if you get a customer wanting you to clean over 45 foot youve not got a problem with Tucker
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IM DEFO HAVING A POLE SYSTEM FOR NXT YEAR.PROBLEM IM HAVING IS WHICH ONE TUCKER OR REACH N WASH.TUCKER SYSTEM COMING IN A LOT LESS £ THAN REACH N WASH.IM AFTER A 300 LTR SYSTEM TO GO IN MY KANGOO VAN.CAN ANY USERS OF EITHER OF THESE SYSTEMS GIVE ME SOME ADVICE ON SERVICEING,PROS AND CONS ETC.IM HAVING A DEMO OF THE TUCKER SYSTEM BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY NEED TO SELL ME ONE SO THERE OPINION ONLY SWINGS ONE WAY.PLEASE HELP ME SOMEONE.IM NOT SLEEPING AT NIGHT THE MRS GETTIN FED UP OF ME GOIN ON N ON.£5000ISH FOR A R N WASH OR 3500 FOR THE TUCKER. CHEERS PAUL.
Personally, I have found Omnipole ( www.omnipole.com ) provide excellent service. Their aftersales advice and help have been top notch - and I didn't even buy my original system from them (I probably would have but I bought a van and second hand system all in one from elsewhere). It's not just about the starting price - it's about the support you get afterwards - especially if you are a DIY dunce like me.
There was even a bit of business that I did with Omnipole that didn't work out as expected. The guys there more than made up for it though - even though I didn't consider anyone at Omnipole to be responsible for the gremlins. IMO the mark of a good company is not when everything runs smoothly 100% of the time because life isn't like that. It's about what happens when the unexpected occurs.
I haven't really had many dealings elsewhere so there's no way that I'm knocking any other companies. I'm just saying it as I've found it.
Don't expect a plush exterior image from them though. Both their website and their premises look like they need a makeover. Don't let it put you off. The guys there know what they're doing. They won't make a sale just for the sake of it.
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There are many excellent firms out there.
My personal findings are that Ionics (OTT) are pricey but good.
Tucker is ok but the poles are really slow to use compared to a decent fibre glass pole- Time is money.
Why spend thousands when you can get a 400 litre RO based system for just £590 + vat, and will only cost you about £60 a year in maintenace.
Have fun choosing though and whatever system you go for it will be much better than a ladder (not as cheap though!!)
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Dirkstar,
Hi, I was were you are now 8 weeks ago. Wfp was doing my head in, The mrs banned the subject, still does but I now have a fantastic understanding of wfp.
Had lots of demos including tucker, I loved their tank system, but not their poles. I just find Alloy to cold and on cold days I would hate it. I did not like their autoreels either. Personall choice I know, I asked for a price just for the tank, but it was way to much money. I spoke to a local w/c whos been useing the Tucker system for 3 years and he said you get tied to them for parts which are very expensive, eg The valve switch on the pole hose often breaks, Should only cost 50p for the metal part thats broke, but o no £20.00 for the complete valve and switches.
Ioincs are the same, they use all their own pumps, parts etc. so their systems are a lot more expensive to run.Yes they have crash tested frames and credit to them for that. But it is only crash tested in one type of van at a relative slow speed. What would happen at 60mph for example? Rear or side collission? You can only take safety so far, I have a factory fitted bulkhead in my Ducato van With a ribbed effect finnish for greater strength, The Ioinics rep said waste of time, all you need is a crash tested frame. Sorry I thought they were intrested in safety, Not usuing it as a sales ploy.
If your only having a small tank. I saw this at their factory it is fantastic looking and well worth a look. it will look very proffesional in your van.
http://www.brodexbms.co.uk/news.php
My van is being fitted out with my tank set up this week by this company.
http://www.faceliftcleaning.co.uk/gb/products.php
They do a very special price on a 400ltr ro van system complete with poles that you will find very hard to beat price wise. And the best bit Phill who fits it is an enginer and a perfectionist. The size of those bolts going through your chassis with the special clamps that go underneath the van will put your mind at ease as regards safety. If you wait till next year they are crash testing their tanks.
Regards Nel
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build your own
http://www.d.co.uk
its the future ;)
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ok lads cool it...the metal poles I believe are pulex and they have certain advantages over fibreglass but are freezing in cold weather and don't have end stops so the poles can slide out of one another, maybe peters poles aren't pulex but they'll never be as good as fibreglass ( I have both and so I know) and they don't cost anything near as much as fibreglass with a Pulex costing about £30 from manufacturer and the vikan brushes cost about £20 then another 25 or so for tubing and spray jets etc, but saying that his systems seem alright and are bang on for the money. Remember what some like others might not, the aul hand prefers the pulex for an unknown reason, I'd rather take the fibreglass.
I'm not slagging or bigging up Peters stuff I'm just saying he has a right to charge whatever he likes - its up to the customer to decide whether to take it or not.
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i have an ionics system and im very happy with it cost me 4500 including 30ft brush 12 ft brush 50m hose and 300 litre system fitted in the van ive had it 6 months and its paid for itself already. but the choice is yours i can only advise you on how good mt system is.
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ok lads cool it...the metal poles I believe are pulex and they have certain advantages over fibreglass but are freezing in cold weather and don't have end stops so the poles can slide out of one another, maybe peters poles aren't pulex but they'll never be as good as fibreglass ( I have both and so I know) and they don't cost anything near as much as fibreglass with a Pulex costing about £30 from manufacturer and the vikan brushes cost about £20 then another 25 or so for tubing and spray jets etc, but saying that his systems seem alright and are bang on for the money. Remember what some like others might not, the aul hand prefers the pulex for an unknown reason, I'd rather take the fibreglass.
I'm not slagging or bigging up Peters stuff I'm just saying he has a right to charge whatever he likes - its up to the customer to decide whether to take it or not.
Nearly right JM, I use the Unger Tele-Pole and supply 7 sections, one of which has to be adapted so as you can add the extra two sections to the normal 5 x 6 foot sections. I won't go into prices but I can assure you that the 7 sections + the modification, cost me double what I can buy a 40 foot glass fibre pole from the manufacturers. I have had many people visit to see my systems, and I give them a choice of poles once I have explained the advantages and disadvantages of each. Most walk away with the alloy.
You are spot on about the what some like others might not, it would be a funny old world if we all liked the same things. We once had a debate on a window cleaning email group, we were talking about new products, I think it was squeegee's. One chap who manufactured roof rigging piped in and asked why anyone would want to use a different style of squeegee, after all the Ettore brass squeegee has served us well for all these years why change? He felt a fool when I reminded him he wouldn't have a roof rigging business if we all adopted that attitude.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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personally i like the UNGER poles
they last for ages and dont wear and splinter
the cones are VERY CHEAP to replace
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Interesting this thread started 2 years ago ;D
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peter,
parts i had been waiting for are the parts you mentioned, no parts no invoice! i have replaced most the parts from your trolly system as it only did four houses.
i have no objection to anyone making a profit but yours must be very high.
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Alister, I don't want to get into a slagging match but you ordered your system on 26/01/05. You then ordered these extra items on 6/6/05 If in fact your system only did 4 houses your list would have been a lot longer than the items you ordered over 4 months later.
You wouldn't have got the invoice because it would have been in the box with the items.
Peter Fogwill
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I have used Peter on a few occasions, most recently on upgrading from trolley to van mount.
He is also the only person I have found that offers the fibreglass option for water proofing the floor of your van, more hard wearing than protectakote, by a long way too.
Another window cleaner local to me has protectakote, its pretty good, but where he has been loading his trolley sytem in and out he has worn through it quite quickly, not skuff resistant enough for my liking.
I know that Speedliner will be, it's expensive and does a damn good job.
I've also found that the things that Peter does sell are all very competetively priced, I wouldn't keep going back if it wasn't.
I personally use the Unger Poles that Peter supplies, I'll probably give the Gardiners poles people a try as I like the fact that they do 5ft section poles, sounds ideal for domestic work, and they use the fibreglass ones, so I would be interested to try one out.
I hate the 6ft sections of the Unger poles. Not that they are alone in producing 6ft sections, most seem to.
some even use 8ft sections!!!
Ian
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you dont have to buy a system from tucker, if you just want a pole they will sell you just a pole. I used to make the poles when i worked for ionics. the 65' carbon poles are very good but also cost alot. Tucker make fantastic poles but take a bit longer to use as you have to tighten up the clamps every time you change hight, not much of a problem when your doing large commercial jobs but i have found it takes longer when doing domestics. cleantech do a very good ally pole that reaches 18' and without a brush costs about £50.00. i dont know how much with a brush as i buy vikan brushes and fit cleantech spray jets myself. i buy the brushes for £12.00 and fit 2 jets that cost less than a quid each. all the parts for a system can be sourced for less than £1500 and with the help of everyone on this site you can have a cracking setup and change from 2k. i know what i would do.
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Exactly, I build systems to order (mainly trailer systems) and some people think I'm going to build them a system for what it costs me!!
As regards poles, there is loads of choice and like Peter I can only advise on what I have used, but sorry Peter, can't understand how they cost you double the price of fibreglass, don't doubt you, just can't figure it out - what gets me is paying £1400 for a 18ft pulex 200gpd ro/di a tiny 18Ah battery and a silly little hozelock plastic reel - that was my first system (when I knew slightly more than nothing)
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matt, your spot on - build your own.
its not rocket science.
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I am, But I still dont know which poles to buy ??? ??? ??? ;) there has been too many very good opinions, perhaps someone could run a "pole" on poles.