Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: M.Acorn on November 09, 2009, 02:51:00 pm

Title: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 09, 2009, 02:51:00 pm
Doing a lounge / diner this morning £150 job,halfway through machine starts to lose suction,can put my hand over the hose connector while both motors on ,and it does not suck very much at all  :(

Finnished the job,after many dry passes.
Got home and called Prochem,as needed to speak to them about the pump making a racket still,and taking ages to get up too pressure.
Need to check a valve !
Changed bushes in both motors,and fished out a big wad of fluff from under the vac motors,still not sucking that well though,and one motor still has blue sparks ?
Also changed the suction hose,as that was gunked up with fluff etc.
I wish i could work on this bloody machine without cutting myself,just once would be nice

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/delk/Picture248.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/delk/Picture249.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: markpowell on November 09, 2009, 06:47:22 pm
Have you checked the seal round the top of the waste tank?
Is the waste gate fully closing and sealed?
Mark
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 09, 2009, 07:14:06 pm
Cleaned the seal off,it is complete ,but think i will order another as it`s 5 yrs old now.I can pull the lid of the machine up with both vacs running,shouldn`t do that.
Not sure if i want to start messing around with the valve t piece thing,it`s way too close to the electrics,was told to pull the pip off the left hand side one andrun it into a bucket,if it comes blasting out i need a new valve.
Waste gate is sealing shut ok
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: markpowell on November 09, 2009, 07:17:39 pm
It will be the seal you should be changing every 6 months or so to keep the vacs running as efficiently as poss, remove the old one wipe round with some solvent, let it dry 10 mins then apply the new one they are self adhesive, they are about £5 from Prochem.
Mark
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Carpet Dawg on November 09, 2009, 07:35:10 pm
just use a tea towel! put it right over the waste take lid. lastest forever  ;D

much better than those black seals. mines only used to last about a month or so.

Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Neil Williams on November 09, 2009, 07:54:12 pm
With the lid open, have you run the machine and put your hand over the vacuum stacks to ensure it is the vacuums playing up?
If you have good vacuum there, then move onto air entering the tank by some other means, lid seal, waste valve, hole in tank.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: suffolkclean on November 09, 2009, 08:27:20 pm
Hope thats not your bra on the kitchen chair ! :o ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 09, 2009, 08:50:00 pm
Nope it`s my wifes !  ;D

Quote
vacuum stacks
? On top of the plastic bit`s where the small fins are ? No i put my hand over the inlet and it was sucking in air from there,It`s sucks from the bottom of the motor yeah ? where the rubber sealing gasket thing is,there was loads of wads of fluff in there

I have been really careful with thease motors,not sucked up suds once,only put 3 buckets in at a time,so less risk,and use liquid de foamer
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: DanielWelford on November 09, 2009, 10:01:54 pm
When I fit my new seals I also silicon round the edge as the seal dont always fit exactly.

Dan
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Neil Williams on November 09, 2009, 10:09:15 pm
Mark, as far as I'm aware all machines (carpet cleaning) work on the same principle.
There is a waste tank which needs to have a negative atmosphere within in, the vacuum motors whcih are outside the waste tank create this vacuum within the tank, so at some point the vacuums are connected to this tank, in the case of Woodbridge and Scorpian there are tubes that come from under the machine and rise to the top of the tank (these are the stacks.
So the point I'm making is have you got a good vacuum from the motors at the point within the waste tank. If you have good vacuum on these then the problem is not the motors. If the vacuum is poor at this point then it is the motor/s.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 09, 2009, 10:19:18 pm
Will check the pipe that comes into the waste tank,on my machine the motors sit on top of a metal plate,then part of the base of the machine forms a chamber,then a big pipe comes out the middle,i did replace the big pipe today,with new stuff,cut my hand on a sharp bit of the new pipe  >:(.Will try and check i have a good seal there,supposeif i blow somke on it it will suck it in ,if it`s leaking
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 10, 2009, 03:42:48 pm
Righty got back from my job today and called Woodbridge for a new vac motor,gasket and lid seal,spoke to him about my pump being problematic,they have had exactly the same problem with the new batch of flojet pumps,and said they have returned a job lot back to Prochem,as they were not happy.They take ages to get up too pressure,and instead of a steady stream of soloution they pulse ! Exactly the same prob as i am having !
So called Prochem armed with this info,have had tp pay another £170 for a shruflo,then have to pay postage to return the other one,wait for them to look at it and then hopefully return my money !

Not happy,not got much else booked in this week though,so not causing probs for custy
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: clinton on November 10, 2009, 04:19:17 pm
Maybe its time for a new machine for the new van mate ???

Must be hard working with the set up you have mark ::)

Get some more plants grown ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: markpowell on November 10, 2009, 04:21:19 pm
Why are you changing the vac motor mark?
You say that the pump is pulsing, is the pump the on demand type or bypass?
Mark
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 10, 2009, 04:30:25 pm
Changing the vac motor as it`s not sucking half as well as the other one,even with new bushes or brushes,prob about half as powerful as the other one,it is getting on for 2 years old now though.
Getting new lid seal,and new gasket for the vac.
Assume it`s a bypass pump ? Prochem are sending me another sureflo though,and will be crediting me with what i paid for the Flojet,once the look at it and decide it is faulty.
My machine is like triggers broom ! Not much left on it that has not been replaced,t/m or new machine in 2 yrs once van is paid for,will have had 7 yrs out of it then,if it lasts  :(
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 10, 2009, 04:34:45 pm
Oi Clinton !

Quote
Get some more plants grown Grin

Get on uk420 if you wanna talk like that !   ::)


http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?act=home

Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: clinton on November 10, 2009, 05:02:31 pm
Mark ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 10, 2009, 05:17:12 pm
What !  ::)
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: murky on November 10, 2009, 05:26:46 pm
Mark,

Think you ought to get yourself down to Altec.

Bloody good machines, great service and backup and just round the corner from you. No post or packing probs, its all done there, even if you take your Prochem machine there they will fix it for you.

They understand what its like to work for your self, when I had my porty pack up 1 Saturday, I rang and they answered, Chris came from home to fix me up so I could work next day.

Now that what I call service.

Murky
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 10, 2009, 05:43:42 pm
Did meet Robert when i was at the do at Exel,nice bloke !
Part of me wishes i went for one of their machines,i have a Prochem dealer just down the road,well there are about 4 in a ten mile radius,can sort out most stuff myself,with the help from folks on here  ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 11, 2009, 03:02:11 pm
Have heard bad things about Woodbridge on here,yesterday i ordered a vac motor,gasket and lid seal (£19 for lid seal !!!) After 3 pm,it turned up this arvo,very happy with that !
Looks like they have changed the vac gasket again,it`s now an inch thick,in the past i have had to chop a bit off the bottom of the motor to make it fit,i assume now i have a thicker gasket i won`t need to chop that bit off ?
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: clinton on November 11, 2009, 04:49:27 pm
Mark

I have used alltec machines for a long time and even on my old machines i never had as many probs as you had mate.

Maybe its time to try a new dealer and set up ???

Just think with a nice set up you wont have to be doing all this repair work on the afternoon and maybe get more work :)
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Carpet Dawg on November 11, 2009, 04:52:46 pm
£19 for a lid seal??? :(

You should of used a tea towel like i suggested.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Dave_Lee on November 11, 2009, 05:21:33 pm
Mark,
Does your vac motors sit on a type of  bowl?
Dave.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 11, 2009, 06:42:54 pm
No they sit on a flat metal plate,with 3 holes in,2 hioles for the vacs and one for the pipe that goes into the tank for the suction.
When i have bought motors from Olympic in the past,he always said to hacksaw off the metal tube that comes out the bottom of the vac.
It looks like i won`t need to do it with the new gasket thing.
Yeah £19 for a small bit of foam stuff is a bloody rip off !
Not sure putting a t towel over would create a good enough seal,thought you were joking as it was in the pic ?


And yes Clinton,geting sick of flipping the machine up,and ripping my hands to shreds ! Next step will be altec or a prowler,as been reading up on them and the look good !

I have treated thease motors so carefully,not once have i sucked suds,and have allways run them for a bit after the end of the job,when i got to it the other day it was blowing steam out the bottom,tank nowhere near full  >:( .

Been a long run of parts buying this year 2 x new pumps 2 x new vac motors and a heat and run,plus new switches.
Getting peaved with it,even the bloke i spoke to at Prochem was saying sorry !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Carpet Dawg on November 11, 2009, 07:20:32 pm
Yeah £19 for a small bit of foam stuff is a bloody rip off !
Not sure putting a t towel over would create a good enough seal,thought you were joking as it was in the pic ?

Nope, done it for two years solid up until i bought my new machine. Got the powermax as a back up now.
Leave the "squashed" black seal on, then lay a folded t towel over the opening (covering the seal obviously) works great :) never had to buy one of those seals again :) was a pain in the bum to replace them ever couple of months.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 11, 2009, 07:23:36 pm
This one has been fitted for 5 years ! Have never thought of changing it until it was mentioned on here,will give it a try as seal is out of stock,so can`t fit it yet.
Did you have probs with your machine ?

Oh and P.s Thanks Ian from Ashcroft for the offer of a machine to borrow !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: markpowell on November 11, 2009, 07:48:51 pm
Prochem £6.50 delivery day after for the seal
Mark
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 11, 2009, 08:34:11 pm
Bugger !  :( Should have got it from them when i ordered the pump !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Carpet Dawg on November 11, 2009, 08:39:35 pm
yeah, 100's!

Everything that could go wrong went wrong! every single part on it was replaced by the time i stopped using it! even the brass pipe works inside, vacs, buttons, check valve, some big ass silver capacitor inside had blown once too! etc etc  And the pump, went through three in 2 years and also had to change the end bell every 2-3 months! thats too much stress for me!

The only thing that where decent on that machine where the wheels! lol

I recommend you buy a more reliable machine mate like i did.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 11, 2009, 09:07:03 pm
Not just me then !!! One of my castors is a bit wonky  ;D Will deffen be looking into getting something better !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 12, 2009, 12:03:35 pm
It`s not all bad !
Just swapped the motor with the new one,date on the old motor was 11/12/07 so i have nearly had 2 years out of it,which is about a year longer than normal,treating them well has paid off  !

Just waiting for the new pump to turn up now,what i did notice was the gasket supplied by Woodbridge was far far too thick,so had to chop it in half,as bolts were not coming out of the mounting holes.
Also the pipe that comes out the side was in a slightly different place,so have had to modify that to fit !
Once the pump is fitted i am hoping i won`t be seeing the inside of my machine foir a good few months
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: clinton on November 12, 2009, 01:59:44 pm
Hope you got it sorted mate ;D

Keep thinking what this machine of yours look like ;D

Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 12, 2009, 04:10:31 pm
Pretty good really,not got any marks or bad scratches on it,and the finish does not show them up really  ;D Surprised i have not put a big dent in it from booting it when it goes wrong though.
Pump still not here yet,even though it was ordered on tue ! They have an hour of delivery time left !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: stevie wonder on November 12, 2009, 04:52:05 pm
You can buy a roll of black double sided foam tape from halfords,which you put around the bottom of the vac.
Does a good job,and cheaper
Stevie
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: clinton on November 12, 2009, 05:16:05 pm
Mark dont forget its friday the 13th tmor ;D

Think you better stay indoors ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 12, 2009, 05:45:26 pm
13 is my lucky number !!
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on November 12, 2009, 08:00:42 pm
Just had my engineer out tonight. Fitted a new 400psi pump £250, a new booster vac £260 and new pressure gauge. The pump was 37 months old and was on its last legs but it does run for on average for between 5 and 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for 42 weeks  year, so I think that's pretty good. He also gave it a bit of a service, checking the insulation, cleaning out the carbon deposits, tightening up the fuse and checking the state of the electrical cables.

I had the vac in stock anyway (that had run for 24 months) but I will need to replenish my stock. On average I would say I spend about £700 a year on new bits for the machine/labour costs for servicing it.

What do the rest of you spend?

Roger
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on November 12, 2009, 08:11:25 pm
Porti wise I used to go through 2 vac motors and 2 pumps a year but that was a long time ago, when i had a Bane clean I never spent a penny on it, marriage made in heaven! must have been made in Sheffield Illinois ;D

Roger do you get steam all the time when you use your V2 or does it steam for a time then go hot/warm?

Shaun

Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on November 12, 2009, 11:16:26 pm
Shaun

Partly it depends upon what temperature you have it set at. That said the simple answer is "no". You have to leave it to build up temperature but it is rare in the extreme for you to need steam.

Possibly i would want it for gum removal, but then i put the Ashby's gum removal wand on my hoses; then I have sufficient team for blasting each wad of gum as the steam is contained within a box-like arrangement at the end of the wand which has a serrated edge for agitating the "steamed wad". By the time you have agitated the temperature has build up sufficiently to deal with the next wad on the carpet.

rRoger
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 16, 2009, 03:15:11 pm
Little update.
Pump turned up 7.30 fri morn,fitted that today ,and now it`s working like it should,ie not pulsing but supplying constant pressure,and builds up pressure within seconds after filling up.Have to wait for Prochem to refund me the other £170 odd ,once they test and say yes it is faulty !

Still not sucking that well though,still waiting for tank seal from W bridge,and need another new gasket for the vac,one the right size,and not an inch thick !
I am ready to take this machine out into a field and burn the bloody thing,it better behave from tomorrow morning onwards as i have work booked every day..
Will be trying out the t towel method until my seal arrives..
Just ordered another new vac motor,cleaned my kitchen carpet yesterday,and it`s still wet !
Not sure what else to do,other than go see Robert in Fowlmere,which is just down the rd from me,oh if only i had gone with him in the first place  :(
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 18, 2009, 04:09:29 pm
Finally got to the bottom of it  !  New 1200w vac motor turned up this morning (sure the last one they sent was only 800w) So got to work taking out the old vac motor,got it out and noticed the date 17/07/09 on it !!!
Then had a closer look at the hole where it mounts amd found this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/delk/DSC00121.jpg)
Bloody huge great wedge of fluff,which was pretty much blocking the motor up ! Thats why the vanes on the top were not spinning when i had the other motor on !
Oh well,i have a 4 month old motor as a spare now,that will also explain why the bushes were pretty brand new !
Machine is now working as brand new !!! Cleans like a dream again,don`t want to be seeing the inside of it for a good 6 months now,new pump and 2 new motors,and new seal when it turns up !
Got news from my accountant this morning,it`s going to be a frugal xmas this year !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 19, 2009, 03:36:41 pm
It was all going so well ! Cleaning 2 bed house,did 1st room,stuck my wand on the landing,custy needed a lift with furniture,kicked my wand out the way,soloution hose burst ! Black poop all up the wall !
Just got home from my local hydraulics place £14 for 2 new ends,also doing me a price on a 50ft set of h pres hose,sure it will be cheaper than carpet cleaning places sell it for  ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: nevil on November 19, 2009, 03:55:26 pm
None of my business Mark but that amount of debris shouldn't be getting to the vac motor. I would strongly recommend you put some sort of filter to prevent it from happening again. >:(


I just got one of these through today. 30 metres is 100ft for £75 delivered. Now that's a bargain. You will have to supply the fittings but they aren't expensive.

http://www.396hose.co.uk/webcat/Detprod.asp?ProductCode=T02004
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160258298655&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 19, 2009, 04:39:57 pm
The machine is fitted with a filter ? But yes as you say it`s a worry how that much crap is getting through ! would it be possible to fit one with smaller holes ? or possibly some sort of bag ?
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Neil Williams on November 19, 2009, 07:18:04 pm
,soloution hose burst ! Black poop all up the wall !

Solution......Black?
What are you cleaning with Guinness  ;D
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 19, 2009, 08:21:38 pm
Think the fluid had burst the inner jacket,and had been leaking into the sleve for a while,so yeah it was black
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: neil 47 on November 19, 2009, 10:12:32 pm
they are doing a good deal on these mark

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/532778/24-hour-rug-doctor-rental-plus-2-li
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on November 21, 2009, 01:16:15 am
they are doing a good deal on these mark

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/532778/24-hour-rug-doctor-rental-plus-2-li

Cheeky  ;D ;D

Don't want to hijack the thread but just read the thread of the link above, in the last week i've done 2 RD cock ups and an entire bungalow cleaned by a supposed pro that had done a very poor job leading to re-soiling, he was there half the time I was and it showed. There's idiots like this running around and Mark works so hard only to put up with his poor run of bad luck!

To quote "I've hired these a few times in the past and they do a great job on our beige carpet. The first time I bought the proper Rug Doctor cleaning solution, but once that ran out I just used some Vanish Oxy Action stuff (which is meant for cleaning clothes) mixed with warm water and if anything it worked better than the Rug Doctor stuff, plus it's cheaper. Just a little tip there!" :P 

The deal is to hire an RD for £20 and one cheap skate wants to find a deal to save him money. Can you believe it! ::)

Now back to Mark, can't wait to see what happens next ;D ;)
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 21, 2009, 08:34:17 am
Machine is now working better than it ever has,it`s actually hard to move the wand over the carpet as there is soo much suction !
Finding i am having to empty the recovery tank much more than normal !
Hope it will stay like that for a few months at least,i do have a spare vac motor now though,which i will put in the back of the van ! Can swap vacs in mins now,had so much bloody practice.
Off to get my box sorted now,if it`s not 1 thing it`s the other,chin up !
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: nevil on November 21, 2009, 09:00:28 am
Machine is now working better than it ever has,it`s actually hard to move the wand over the carpet as there is soo much suction !
Finding i am having to empty the recovery tank much more than normal !
Hope it will stay like that for a few months at least,i do have a spare vac motor now though,which i will put in the back of the van ! Can swap vacs in mins now,had so much bloody practice.
Off to get my box sorted now,if it`s not 1 thing it`s the other,chin up !


Get yourself a glide for your wand. They don't half make life easier.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: Kinver_Clean on November 21, 2009, 10:38:57 pm
Have a look at the filter in the tank. I have found that the holes in the mesh are very often too big and over time let too much fluff through especially if a lot of foam has lifted the crud from the top of the wastewater.
If the holes are too big (around 1.5 mm) a double thickness of stocking or an old sock tied on will prevent most of it. Crude but effective.

Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: John Kelly on November 21, 2009, 11:01:00 pm
Nevil, that black hose is a nightmare to work with. I know as I use one with my truckmount for pressure washing on flood jobs. Would hate to have to use to clean carpets. The connectors link you posted is for steel quick connects. These are a waste of time as they rust up pretty quickly. If you click through to the brass ones which is the ones you need the price is extortionate.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: M.Acorn on November 22, 2009, 09:43:57 am
Tights,what a great idea,thanks for that Kinver ! It`s the standard white basket filter thing,with the square holes,the holes are quite big,so will see if i can get some tights for it !
My local hyd place were supposed to be getting back to me with prices,the do the non marking stuff 2 versions,1 felt quite wrough,the other was similar to what i have at the moment.
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: nevil on November 22, 2009, 06:56:47 pm
Thanks John.

I have been using that hose for a while with no problems. What problems are you refering to?

As far as the fittings go I did wonder if that would be a problem. I haven't yet bought any like that. The brass ones seem to have a very limited life also. I find the males seem to score very easily leading to problems sealing against the O rings. 
Title: Re: Bloody machine again !!
Post by: John Kelly on November 22, 2009, 07:36:08 pm
Nevil, I find the hose kinks a lot more readily than the standard blue ones also the outer is a lot rougher and there is an added risk of taking paint or paper off if it is dragged against walls or doorframes.
The brass male connectors do score but mainly if they are allowed to touch the ground when coiling up.