Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: a1drivecleaner on November 01, 2009, 04:16:24 pm
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Ive just come from a badly flooded premises the owners who are customers of mine have asked me to organise skips and dehumidifiers and to start work in the morning. The carpets are trashed and need ripping out and the building will take some considerable drying out. I just wanted to know where I stand on this as the insurance assesor is coming tomorrow and you can bet your bottom dollar they will give it to our franchise friends if I havent already started it. Im not going to rip the carpets out but thought if I was already there sucking the excess water out that the fire brigade had left with my rx20 and hydramaster TM I would stand half a chance of finishing the job. Has anybody ggot any advice/experience on this. Thanks Keith
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Steer clear, if you dry it out and something isnt done correctly it will be you held responsable if it goes tits up ::) Can you issue a certificate saying its all dry and safe?
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Hi there
I do a bit of flood work and i'm not a franchise (not in your area either, shame) . What i suggest you do is find somebody who is in the flood game in your area and split the ticket with him, your customer dosn't always have to use the franchise. Even if you don't get to dry the building you can always charge for the extraction of water.
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thats what i was bothered about and was wodering if anyone knew what procedures to take step by step and what tests need to be done once the de-humidifiers have done all they can
ive just done a big fire damage job which went realy well and would love to get more of this type of work
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thanks mark thats probably the way to go ive cancelled my jobs for tomorrow now so i might as well suck out all the excess water then get help to finish the job if ok with the asessor
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The problem you will come up against is that you will need to issue a drying certificate at the end of the job and if the property is not dry you may get problems in the future. I would extract the water and rip out the carpets ans sanitise all affected areas and leave it to the big boys like us.
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the carpets are full of sludge soil probably even sheep s**tin there too is it normal practise to suck them fairly dry before you rip them out as there is still water pudleing on them
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Most restoration companys will extract as much water as they can before they rip the carpets out.
You will need to sanitise all of the affected areas aswell.
Do you know who your customer is insured with?
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i dont sorry .ill find out in the morning though.thanks for the advice its much appreciated at least i can get busy first thing and now know what to do.would anyone be interested in helping drying it out and passing it off as dry etc if i get the whole job
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First thing first,
1, get your documentation in order, document everything, time on site , no of people on site , time of calls , sizes, inc height length , width of wet areas , get customer to sign all this off.
2,Next , photograph ,,, click click click ,, you can not have too many.
3, very important get customer to sign to say they will pay for your work in the event of insurance co not paying out.
4, once the above is complete , you can feel confident removing wet materials, cleaning, applying sanitizer etc.
5, after all that you can think about drying out.... but that is a whole different subject.
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The insurance policy will state that the policy holder has to use their contractor, or in English 'do what they are told'. So even if you start you can still get kicked off half way through, but you will get paid. Its happen to me.
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That is wrong , the policy holder has the absolute right to use who they wish , whether it be motor , property , marine or whatever type of claim , so long as the PH has tried to mitigate the claim, and keeps cost reasonable.
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thanks for all the good advice ill take photos and get a work order signed before i start.
do you charge by the square metre for sucking out the water,carpet rip out and sanitizing the floors
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£40/hour/man all in for water extraction, rip out etc, inc all equipment, ppe etc. skip hire etc double whatever it costs you.
Sanitizer £1.50/m2, be sure to charge for "application of antimicrobial" not "sanitizing wet areas" as if mould does appear you could get the blame.
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Personally I wouldn't do anything because if the claims handler turnout to be from RSA, Direct Line, then they will instruct one of their approved suppliers and the whole claim is handled electronically, the claim details are online, means the claims handler is not chasing you for details of BER items.
The cost is another aspect of why they will use their own suppliers.
Drying rates differ £13sqm for everything including stripping out, or room rate drying of £125. As for mark ups on skips etc 10%. Hourlyy rate, if you can use it, is about £15 an hour, say for listing or cleaning contents. You have to take off 1/2 an hour for lunch and if they think you've over charged them they will ask for money back, no defence no arguments, or you'll be taken off their list in that postcode area.
I got out of it six months ago, met a guy from Chem-Dry recently the stress etched on his face, just made me realise it just is not worth the grief. Franchisor, Insurance company and the Policyholder, put them all in the mix and you end up the punch bad.
So if anyone would like to get into it as its good money, take from someone who was at it for seven years, if you see a flooded house, just walk on by, to you next CC job, hard work yes, but very rewarding.
Sorry to P*SS on anyones bonfire
Regards
Graham
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Drying rates differ £13sqm for everything including stripping out, or room rate drying of £125. As for mark ups on skips etc 10%. Hourlyy rate, if you can use it, is about £15 an hour, say for listing or cleaning contents. You have to take off 1/2 an hour for lunch and if they think you've over charged them they will ask for money back, no defence no arguments, or you'll be taken off their list in that postcode area
Sounds like you have been working for a franchise, who doubles up your rates.
Would not advise charging those silly rates.
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Catman,
I did the same myself, 8 years in, I never realised how stressed and overworked I was till I left (lost the contract). Love cc its so easy and stressfree. touch wood).
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No a franchise cannot double the rates, they are national contract rates, all invoicing is done electronically, thats how they get the work, everyone is underctting everyone else, working for nothing.
Its become a mugs game, the insurers are screwing down the prices, however when the country gets a deluge of rain then thats were the problems will begin. Look at homeserve, they've all but pulled out, they know there's no money in it.
No the franchise make their money on the fees £30 for every job given, + 11% of the invoice value.
Karl that name rings a bell, was it for bungle, geoff and zippy?
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Its your customer so take it on so long as you feel comfortable doing the work,
The loss adjuster (not assessor) does not have the right to remove you from the job and as already mentioned the policy holder can instruct who ever they like so long as they are competent and know what they are doing at rates that are competitive,
As for drying certificates , they are not worth the paper they are written on, no one can guarantee that a property is dry, it is only a 'professional opinion'. So long as you have carried out correct procedure and taken damp readings on a regular basis and monitored drying, then when the time is right you can sign it off as habitable.
The longer the contaminated carpets stay down the more the damage so get them removed ASAP and get your dehums and air movers on site as quick as possible, once you are embedded the harder it is for the LA to cause problems trying to get his 'approved' contractor to take over.
If all goes well you may strike up a good relationship with the LA who could put further work your way, believe me some of the national franchises are totally incompetent in this field as the LA will know so if you carry out a superior service and you customer signs it off as so, then there is a good opportunity for you.
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No a franchise cannot double the rates, they are national contract rates, all invoicing is done electronically, thats how they get the work, everyone is underctting everyone else, working for nothing.
Its become a mugs game, the insurers are screwing down the prices, however when the country gets a deluge of rain then thats were the problems will begin. Look at homeserve, they've all but pulled out, they know there's no money in it.
No the franchise make their money on the fees £30 for every job given, + 11% of the invoice value.
Karl that name rings a bell, was it for bungle, geoff and zippy?
Well I know an awful lot of very wealthy mugs then, I am an ex CD franchisee, they took 22% plus fees , plus chemical and machine purchases.
Independent is the way to go, fewer high paying jobs , pick and choose with less stress.
Homeserve have left the business , only because they have sold the Chemdry arm, but CD continues.
I do not undercut anyone, I charge more because I do more, I will agree that carpet cleaning is a sensible option to balance the business more, and that is my current focus, it has not always been a great idea to focus on insurance work.
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I do very well off flood work and find it very lucrative when it is there, I can get a nice little earner off the hire of my equipment on its own.
To issue a drying certificate, you do need to spend a lot of money on damp testing equipment and learn how to use it. The equipment with experience allows you to deduce the drying state of the building and whilst the information from your equipment does need interpretating it is more than just an opinion.
It is the same as anything else you need the right equipment , training and of course experience does account for a lot.
Peter
www/carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www/carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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I have lost count of the amount of jobs we gone into after the so called professionals have 'dried' it and given an certificate to prove it ::) only to find damp in the cavity's, under the skirting, in ceiling voids behind kitchen cupboards ( that should have been removed) under secondary flooring etc etc etc.
You can stick dehums in for 6 months if you like but if don't do the prep work as well you will just cause more damage structurally, which doubles the cost.
Why do you think these franchises end up on the insurance merry go round its not just because of cost at source but cost over the period of a claim and then secondary costs.
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Hilton, you can be remove off a site even once you have started, as the lA will make life hell for the PH and their will won't you out. Its the LA show not yours, and the LA and ins co have the larger stick.
Catman, worked for an independent network called Disaster Care, based in Lincoln, not the new one based is Surrey, who I also work for when there remember I still exist
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With all do respect Karl thats B*llO*,They can not remove you from the job, unless you let them.
We have never left a site unless it was our decision to do so and we have dealt with some LA that were complete aerosoles.
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hi all
well ive taken the job on weve ripped out all the carpets currently cleaning all the floors met both loss adjusters for buildings and contents both happy for me to carry on even commended me on quick responce and removing carpets
jason dropped off de humidifiers today no power yet though
it just goes to show you can do it with a bit of help and the right advice
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well done young man,
Now remember to charge them for the dehums from day one whether theres power or not, while they are on site they can not be used any where else so a charge is not unreasonable to secure their services as and when required.
Take your meter readings before the dehums are switched on and monitor drying every otherday, I suspect the skirtings will need to be removed advise the building LA of this and just do it if necessary. Log all visits and charge them for each and every visit, to monitor drying, this is time out of your day and your deisel,what ever the outcome your bill will be less than a franchise.
If the bill for the contents LA is just the carpet and underlay removal and skip away, then get your invoice in straightaway,(the floors will come under buildings) don't wait till the whole job is finished.
As the situation in Scotland develops and dehums become the order of the day, especially if the rains continue, you will be required to ensure they stay put.
Keep the LA'S informed of progress and any delays which are beyond your control and you may well find you will be on another one to run along side this one before very long.
;)
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Get the Insured to sign Direct Payment Mandates, you send them in with your Invoices, they agree that the Insurance Co will pay you directly.
Make sure you agree with the Insured that they will pay YOU the excess, ie first £250 or whatever it is of the claim, put a copy of the Invoice in your file or show it say £2000.00 less £250.00 excess paid by Insured.
Dont do him a 'favour' and include it in your workings, it wont work, the Adjuster will suss it and you will never work for them again.
Ask the Adjuster if there is any other similar work around, dont forget you are probably cheaper than the Franchises especially if you arent VAT registered. Obviously they all are and thats the way you beat them.
That is allways a big bone of contention with the Insurance Co's, they cant get the VAT back on all that building restoration work. Shame eh!
Murky