Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ryan1 on October 27, 2009, 01:47:01 pm
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Hello guys
I've had a lady on the phone today saying that the carpet cleaner had shrink her carpet! has this part of the cleaning is sub out to another person i have phoned the carpet cleaning up and he said he did the normal test?? to see if any thing would happen and it was fine so he carried on with the clean. Now i do trust this cleaner 100% as he has been cleaning carpets for years but now i have got to go and have a look at the carpet first to see how bad the damage is and if it will re-stretch again, What test can i do while i'm there to see if any things will happen to the carpet??
Any advice would be great on this ??? ???
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Ask your c/c what test he did ? would be a good starting point.
is the carpet poly? another question you could have asked both the custy and c/c .
the chances are you will have a good chance of re streching provining a power strecher is at hand .
Geoff
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I would go the same as geoff said unless its a belgium wilton and i would say it wont go back if it was the latter..
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Your carpet cleaner may well have tested for colour bleed but did he look at the back? I would ask him about his insurance cover, promise nothing to the customer initially because, as previously said, if its a Belgian Wilton it may well not be capable of being re-stretched
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Belgian Wiltons will re-stretch, but the problem is most people try to re-stretch them too
soon. You must allow at least 7 days for all the moisture to leave the backing allowing
the cords to shrink back to normal.
Fitters usually go in immediatley and then say "there is too much tension".
If it is beyond help then i'm afraid it's the sub contractors problem.
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a wilton will stretch, and you'd be surprised by how much.however, this only applies to the length! if it has shrunk in the width good luck trying to re-stretch it, as it wont be easy.all is dependent on the degree of shrinkage and whether its in the length/width or both..
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took 2 guys to stretch my one and only, and they kicked the poo out of it.
derek
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hence, a suggested power strecher Derick ;)
GEOFF
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geoff, i know diddly squat about carpet fitting/stretching and so a power stretcher to me sounds like something only the under endowed would need.
i just called in the professionals when this happened. £40, phew, bargain
derek
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westy its worth while you looking into being able to do repairs, section corrections & refit work
high end clients love the extra service
and it pays well
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no thanks rickster, got enough on me plate plus i got a mate who i pass work onto and vise versa, he has a whipping machine so i get him a lot of off cuts and get 25% comission, happy days. ;D
derek
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been round to see the carpet tonight and there is a gap of 2cm at the top of the carpet? there carpet is cord with a black rubber text on the back of it?? i will post pic later to show
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Has it come off the grippers. It doesn't sound like the type of carpet that most of us associate with shrinkage problem. Having said that a lot can shrink if not fitted properly. Its really only the woven backed types that shrink with enough force to cause problems. From your description of it that type would not pull off the grippers. My guess is it wasn't fitted. If that's the case the cleaner really should have advised the custy of what can happen if the carpet has not been secured around the edges. No problem re stretching it but if there are no grippers, there is no way to keep the carpet in place once it's been stretched. Double sided tape maybe.
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If it's rubber backed then it will not be grippered down, the norm is to use spray glue to stick it down, however often with cheap fitting jobs it is just cut and laid.
By the look of it, you and your carpet cleaner have now inherited the problem by not carrying out a proper check of the carpet before cleaning. It is up to you and him to sort it out as the customer was happy with the carpet before the clean but is obviously not happy now.
In future, check for fitting, previous shrinkage and damage and inform the customer of your findings, take photos of any problems before and after.
We had one a couple of years ago where the seam joint was split on a large carpet, I informed the customer (a car dealer) and he said that's fine we know about it. The whole job including a suite and some other carpets was £440, anyway to cover myself I took 4 photos of the damage, did the job got paid by cheque and went home.
Two days later got a phone call from his wife saying the seams had split wide open and the carpet was ruined and they'd stopped the cheque!
I printed off the photos and went to have a look at the "ruined" carpet, the only difference between the before photos and when I went to have a look was that the carpet looked cleaner! Custy didn't know what to say, gave me another cheque, thank you very much and goodnight! ;)
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What actually causes the shrinkage with these then - is it over wetting or heating or....?. I always check a carpet is fixed but didn't realise with this sort of carpet that it could cause these sort of problems.
Cheers
Simon
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Without trying to teach people to suck eggs it's for exactly the same reasons as a Belgian Wilton will shrink, the WEFTS on a carpet run the width of the carpet and basically hold the tufts of the carpet, the WARP on a carpet is the cotton thread that runs the whole length of the carpet and joins all the wefts together. The better quality carpets will have more wefts per linear foot and will be very tightly joined together, therefore when it's wetted there's no space for any shrinkage.
With a cheaper carpet the wefts will be very loosely spaced, therefore when they are wetted the WARP (generally cotton) will want to shrink and the wefts will be pulled tighter together therefore shortening the length of the carpets.
BW's are supposed to be double grippered, I have NEVER found one yet that has been. Why? because the people that buy these carpets are price shoppers and want to buy a carpet and get it laid for as little cost as possible, their not going to pay for a second row of grippers and the significant extra time it takes to lay it.
The only significant difference between BW's and some other cheap carpets is in the backing, BW's are hessian backed, others are foam backed or felt backed. I have had movement on them all, however after a week or so they will generally go back into place. Luckily I have two very good carpet fitters working for me now and have only ever needed to call on their services twice.
Ones that won't shrink are the top end carpets, polyprop and carpets with a glued on secondary backing, this is put on primarily to strenghten the carpet.
I will probably now be shot down in flames by someone who knows a lot more than me, but these are the principles I've worked off and they have run pretty true so far.
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Without trying to teach people to suck eggs it's for exactly the same reasons as a Belgian Wilton will shrink, the WEFTS on a carpet run the width of the carpet and basically hold the tufts of the carpet, the WARP on a carpet is the cotton thread that runs the whole length of the carpet and joins all the wefts together. The better quality carpets will have more wefts per linear foot and will be very tightly joined together, therefore when it's wetted there's no space for any shrinkage.
With a cheaper carpet the wefts will be very loosely spaced, therefore when they are wetted the WARP (generally cotton) will want to shrink and the wefts will be pulled tighter together therefore shortening the length of the carpets.
BW's are supposed to be double grippered, I have NEVER found one yet that has been. Why? because the people that buy these carpets are price shoppers and want to buy a carpet and get it laid for as little cost as possible, their not going to pay for a second row of grippers and the significant extra time it takes to lay it.
The only significant difference between BW's and some other cheap carpets is in the backing, BW's are hessian backed, others are foam backed or felt backed. I have had movement on them all, however after a week or so they will generally go back into place. Luckily I have two very good carpet fitters working for me now and have only ever needed to call on their services twice.
Ones that won't shrink are the top end carpets, polyprop and carpets with a glued on secondary backing, this is put on primarily to strenghten the carpet.
I will probably now be shot down in flames by someone who knows a lot more than me, but these are the principles I've worked off and they have run pretty true so far.
Sorry Ian but that is not correct. So I am going to shoot you down. No flames though. ;)
If there are more warps and weft per sq metre because they are tightly packed, there is a greater potential for shrinkage.
Neither the cotton or the jute in the backing shrinks.
The Hessian expands in diameter as it takes on moisture. Because the cotton is tightly wrapped around it. It now has further to go around this increased diameter. If over wetting occurs over a large area the cotton can be reduced in length considerably as the jute swells giving the shrinkage.
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Its obvious that some people havent done even a basic carpet cleaning course!
Dave.
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Another reason that a BW is prone to shrinkage is because often the CC over wets the backing. This is because as the pile fibres on a BW are Polyprop' and Polyprop repels water, the water applied shoots straight down to the backing rather than being absorbed and held within the pile.
Most other woven carpets (proper Wiltons and Axminsters) have a Wool fibre pile and the pile absorbs the water and thus not all into the backing.
Well, thats what I was taught on my courses anyway. ;)
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the top end brinton etc luxury woven carpets are very prone to scrinckage as well it is the jute that is the main problem.
At £40 sq mtr can be a much costlier mistake than a polyproylene wilton costing a few pounds per metre.
Peter
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Watch out for the Brinton Belltwist, its a Wilton weave but with a double ie 'bell' twist, it will last 20 years plus but will shrink if your not careful, did 1 a few years ago, as I packed away my porty kit thought 'carpet feels bouncy' and only when I looked closer at it I realised what it was, and it was starting to come in, got the kit back out and sucked it as dry as I could. Phew!!!!!!!!!
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How do you identify these Brinton carpets?
BW are easily identified - what about these
Whoops sorry didn't read all that last post properly - It gives the ID in there ;D
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Jute does not shrink. In a woven carpet when shrinkage occurs, it is because the structure of the carpet (backing) becomes damp or wet. The Jute then swells causing the stringers which are very often Cotton (and interwoven around the Jute weft) to adjust to the increased circumference. This causes the stringers to pull in from the ends and shortening the carpet lengh.
Shrinkage across the weft or width happens because the cotton stringer tightening up on the swollen Jute causes it to become strangled and indented. As there are numerous stringers across the carpet width, the many indents cause a shortening in the lengh of the Jute.
There you are clear as mud.
Dave.
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in terms of providing a solution to your problem, as ian roch... pointed out...whether its you or somebody working on your behalf doin the job, as part of the site survey always check the existing carpet, and cover yourself first and foremost.
you see the carpet may have been fairly short to begin with...?
anyway, if its a very cheap rubber backed carpet, you wont get much stretch out of it.is the floor concrete? or wood? if wood, you can buy some gimp pins and stretch and pin, the pins r so small they will be invisible to the eye...DIY shops stock em..concrete will be sprayed.
unless its a cord on underlay, which i very much doubt.although not uncommon. it may stretch sufficiently...cheap thin cords can only take a small degree of stretching before they rip though
if its a more heavy duty cord, with a thicker rubber backing, feels quite substantial to the touch.usually, across the board of manufacturers, you can get a very gd stretch, 2 cm shouldnt be a problem, on the length and always less on the width... - however, if its stick down and not on grips/underlay fold the carpet back to the centre/middle and spray it with spray adhesive then stretch towards each end of the room, whilst spray too...either carpet type will be a problem to anyone inexperienced...
and to the experienced... a bit of a ball-ache..
problem will be exacerabated if theres no underlay and its a cheapo thin cord thats been heavily stuck to the floor, as the backing will separate from the carpet if the carpet is lifted up.
in summary - thin cord stuck to floor - problemo, approach with caution, if heavilty stuck ur f*kd!
thin cord on grip/underlay - more chance of a stretch, press one end onto grips, and work in opposite direction stretching to the other end until on grips
thicker cord stuck to floor - more solid rubber backing, more chance of stretching spraying and stretch
thicker cord on grip/underlay - happys days - easy stretch.
hope this has helped...and ive covered everything...if not jus ask..baz x
i could go on all day...i hope im been of some help...all qs us ask...