Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: david willis on October 14, 2009, 10:56:02 am
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I would like to thank Karl Robinson for his time at the show and for showcasing our stand/services on his blogspot www.robinson-solutions.blogspot.com
I have linked it in for all to see and will welcome any feedback/suggestions for our new passport, we are launching the product at Windex 2010 and feel it is going to meet every window cleaner/companies and clients needs.
http://www.cleaning43.com/latest-news/latest-news-article.php?latestNewsID=726
The new passport website is www.competencychecker.com , we have used a ex NVQ candidate as an example, type in Hewett or progress
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Am i correct in saying that the NVQ doesnt actually teach you anything, its just an assessment of your skills?
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it teches you on all sorts of things but it dont show you how to clean your windows thay assume you all redy kow how
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You will find that usually this is the case and the reason for this is the training provider is cutting corners
We deliver 3 training days which the training is totally based on window cleaning and not how to clean a window!....the training is very informative and we haven't had one person attend so far and go away not benefiting or learning something new, ask people from the forum who have attended.
Once the training is complete we then carry out some on-site assessments and on the basis the candidate is meeting the standard we apply for their level 2 qualification.
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You will find that usually this is the case and the reason for this is the training provider is cutting corners
We deliver 3 training days which the training is totally based on window cleaning and not how to clean a window!....the training is very informative and we haven't had one person attend so far and go away not benefiting or learning something new, ask people from the forum who have attended.
Once the training is complete we then carry out some on-site assessments and on the basis the candidate is meeting the standard we apply for their level 2 qualification.
So, have you ever been a window cleaner then?
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it teches you on all sorts of things but it dont show you how to clean your windows thay assume you all redy kow how
This is correct in some ways and thank you for your input (from a previous attending candidate), we have had a couple of candidates who did not know how to use the squeege properly due to them doing just WFP work, we did help them with this and offered them some further practical training.
Also due to alot of candidates not having the basic certification for Ladders, WFP (not a requirement) and they wanted to add this to their training portfolio we have held some successful 1 day courses which covered the two above items and also helped them in the completion of their NVQ, especially when they struggled to find a suitable venue for the assessment
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since you have ignored my question, i'll ask it again.
What actual experience of being a window cleaner do you have?
the training is totally based on window cleaning and not how to clean a window!
So its not actually training for window cleaning then?
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and because thay dont tech you how im still on port holes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You will find that usually this is the case and the reason for this is the training provider is cutting corners
We deliver 3 training days which the training is totally based on window cleaning and not how to clean a window!....the training is very informative and we haven't had one person attend so far and go away not benefiting or learning something new, ask people from the forum who have attended.
Once the training is complete we then carry out some on-site assessments and on the basis the candidate is meeting the standard we apply for their level 2 qualification.
So, have you ever been a window cleaner then?
That is a good question and one we always ask other training providers
Hope the following answers your question sufficiently please see the link to our head trainer/assessor
http://www.cleaning43.com/latest-news/latest-news-article.php?latestNewsID=677
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So you were working for a window cleaning company in 1975. How many years of actual window cleaning, (I mean YOU actually cleaning the windows yourself, not some management position) have you done?
And, since WFP wasnt around in 1975, how many years of expericence of using WFP for window cleaning do you personally have?
And, i still dont understand what the training is? If you dont teach how to clean windows, what do you teach?
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i think your unjustly haveing a go its not abute cleaning windows it how to do it safly ,if you wont to lern how to window clean thers cors for that
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Im not having a go, i just dont understand!
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Easiest way is to ring our office and speak to me 01205 769032, all questions can be answered
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Easiest way would be to answer the question ?
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;D hand bags at dawn :o
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So you were working for a window cleaning company in 1975. How many years of actual window cleaning, (I mean YOU actually cleaning the windows yourself, not some management position) have you done?
And, since WFP wasnt around in 1975, how many years of expericence of using WFP for window cleaning do you personally have?
And, i still dont understand what the training is? If you dont teach how to clean windows, what do you teach?
RE Trainer reference Andrew Willis
Started window cleaning in 1975 for the Great International Window Cleaning Company
Commercial Window Cleaning
On the tools from 75 – 85
Work included all types of high level window cleaning in mobile elevated work platform, use of Spiders, Bosun chairs, all types of suspended access equipment, was part of a specialist access unit at the time working on a lot of London’s most prestigest properties. During this time acquired training and certification on all areas. 85-90 Lead hand, Supervisor responsible for setting up and controlling new contracts including carrying out risk assessments (2 years before) MHSWR-92 came into force, 90-2000 Management and Director Positions
Career summary
Window Cleaner
Window Cleaning Supervisor
Window Cleaning Management
Daily Office Cleaning Management
General Manager Suspended Access and High Level Window Cleaning
Company Director Suspended Access and High Level Window Cleaning
Developing a unique system for removing calcium staining from glass
Qualification include
June 1991 City and Guilds 764 1 Cleaning/Science
Feb 1991 BICS Operators Proficiency 1, 2, and 3
June 1991 BICS Appointed Assessor
June 1992 City and Guilds 764 2 Cleaning/Science
Lincs Tec June 1997 Skills Certificate for Development Programme Small Business & Auditing LM August 2000 Health and Safety Course
C I E H June 2001 Basic Health and Safety Certificate
2003 Working at Height & PPE Inspection course
2003 Fall Arrest Inspection course
Various courses working at height awareness and self rescue various training for operating mobile elevated work platforms
2004 Grimsby College NEBOSH Level 3 Certificate in Occupational Health and Safety
2005 Water fed pole course
January 2009 City and Guilds National Vocational A1 Assessor Qualification
Workplace Law 2009 Emergency First Aid
Water fed pole training CPD refreshed July 2009
Current occupation
Consultant Access and High Level Window Cleaning
Your comment re Water fed pole you are quite correct about practical experience is lacking as poles were not around at the time
However the trainer is more than qualified to assess the correct controls in setting up a works area and that the operative is operating the pole correctly
IMPACT43 training covers and focuses on
Health and safety and being able to identify risk and put controls in place
This includes examples of case law and what happening in the industry when someone gets it wrong
Working at height
The assessments are part of a candidate demonstrating they have the competency to meet the standards set by City and Guilds
On this basis over 300 window cleaners have benefited from this 100% funded training and assessment with the end result being proof of competency (certificate) there is more information on www.training43.com
Fortunately some users of this forum have started to put some real commitment into supporting things like the NVQ and developing our industry instead of just picking at the bones of everything.
As I have taken some time to answer your question perhaps you could supply us with evidence of your competency and training commitments to date.
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;D hand bags at dawn :o
Nice interview on talk sport
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Andrew
Good answer
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;D ;D ;D
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So just to be clear then, the last time you did any hands-on window cleaning was 24 years ago, and you never used waterfed poles, ever.
No offense, but on that basis I think it could be me teaching you, not the other way around.
As I have taken some time to answer your question perhaps you could supply us with evidence of your competency and training commitments to date.
LOL new to this forum game aren't you? I dont have to provide you with anything, since I am not spamming a forum trying to make out that I can train window cleaners when I dont even know how to use waterfed poles.
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I think so far I have sufficiently answered your questions but to make it clear to you
A) I am not the trainer, I have just supplied you with the experience and qualifications of the 'trainer'
B) There is more to commercial window cleaning than just WFP, which you seem to highly focuse on, so I am taking it you just use WFP
C) You still haven't supplied us with your experience and qualifications...and this is why the NVQ is important within the industry as it is a tool to prove your competency rather than just lip servicing
One final point I will make is there are a number of people who use the forum that have been along to our training sessions, ask them their views on the knowledge and experience of the trainer as it will be a neutral viewpoint!
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C) You still haven't supplied us with your experience and qualifications...and this is why the NVQ is important within the industry as it is a tool to prove your competency rather than just lip servicing
Why on earth would I need to prove my experience or qualifications to you?
LOL Its YOU that thinks they know enough to train people, not me!
But just to humor you, how about this "I know how to use waterfed poles, and having been using them to clean windows for years" There, I am more qualified than you in that regard ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
B) There is more to commercial window cleaning than just WFP, which you seem to highly focuse on, so I am taking it you just use WFP
You're absolutely correct, I only use WFP. While I'd agree there is more to window cleaning than WFP, i would also say its currently the MOST IMPORTANT part of window cleaning, IMO anyway. I would guess that all decent sized commercial window cleaning companies use WFP for the majority of their work. And you, and your trainer have never used it. That says a lot about your grasp of "the industry" that you claim to know so much about.
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C) You still haven't supplied us with your experience and qualifications...and this is why the NVQ is important within the industry as it is a tool to prove your competency rather than just lip servicing
Why on earth would I need to prove my experience or qualifications to you?
LOL Its YOU that thinks they know enough to train people, not me!
But just to humor you, how about this "I know how to use waterfed poles, and having been using them to clean windows for years" There, I am more qualified than you in that regard ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
B) There is more to commercial window cleaning than just WFP, which you seem to highly focuse on, so I am taking it you just use WFP
You're absolutely correct, I only use WFP. While I'd agree there is more to window cleaning than WFP, i would also say its currently the MOST IMPORTANT part of window cleaning, IMO anyway. I would guess that all decent sized commercial window cleaning companies use WFP for the majority of their work. And you, and your trainer have never used it. That says a lot about your grasp of "the industry" that you claim to know so much about.
what attituide you have!!!
so your a window cleaner but can only clean by using the WFP method ha haha
the guy hs come on here to help others but not to be questioned but he has answered your questions showing you is experience so why not divulge yours?? because your embarresed by your lack of it???
By the way the course was very good and helpd me with all the health saftey aspects of window cleaning
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MR WILLIS IS HILEY RESPKETED IN THE WINDOW CLEANING WORLD ,AND HE KOWS HIS STUFE ,THE ONLEY PIK I HAVE WITH HIM HE DISLIKES DINER ,
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I'm not embarassed by anything ronnie. Here is my experience: I have been cleaning windows for years with water-fed pole.
There's nothing wrong with that, because I am a window cleaner.
There would be something wrong with it if I now said I could teach other people about all aspects of window cleaning, including those I have no experience of, like this guy is.
the guy hs come on here to help others but not to be questioned
Face facts, he has not come on here to help others at all, he has come on here to spam about his training thing. He is a business, plain and simple.
If you don't want to be questioned, then a discussion forum is really the wrong place to come surely, isnt it?
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well iv got both
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I'm not embarassed by anything ronnie. Here is my experience: I have been cleaning windows for years with water-fed pole.
There's nothing wrong with that, because I am a window cleaner.
There would be something wrong with it if I now said I could teach other people about all aspects of window cleaning, including those I have no experience of, like this guy is.
the guy hs come on here to help others but not to be questioned
Face facts, he has not come on here to help others at all, he has come on here to spam about his training thing. He is a business, plain and simple.
If you don't want to be questioned, then a discussion forum is really the wrong place to come surely, isnt it?
were did he say he would teach you about cleaning windows???
the course teachs you about health and saftey for your self your staff and the public.
the course he provides helps others be more aware.th qualification can help there business too so i see that has helping others.
now you call your self a window cleaner but can you clean taditional??
he has answered your questions you havent answered is so maybe you should avoid open forums.
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these qualifications prove to the client that you have some knowledge of safety issues etc, we all know that you cant beat experience but in the world we live in with lawsuits and the like it is important for clients to be able to prove you are competent to do the job and the main way of showing this is through training certificates, me personally have done allsorts of window cleaning from cradlework bosuns chair before abseilling, abseiling cherrypicker work, 60ft ladderwork which is now illegal and wfp, i have found that although very experienced when speaking to health and safety officers they tend not to listen to your opinions unless you have the relative qualifications.
as already stated there are ones with no training who know the job inside out and work very safely but sadly with current regulations this may not be enough i know personally i will need to take more courses next year not that i agree with them but because its what clients expect us to be doing.
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As a final closure to our entry, we note your first comment on cleanitup.....I rest my case!
DR Windows first entry:
New to Cleanitup
« on: February 18, 2008, 09:02:43 AM »
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Hello fellow cleanitupers.
I have been viewing the forum for a while now but only just started contributing so I thought I might as well introduce myself.
My name is Dave and I have been window cleaning for 9 months following taking voluntary redundancy. I use a 600 litre thermopure reach and wash system out of a renault trafic van. I have never used ladders and I have the upmost respect for you boys who do because I am terrified of heights. Ashamed to admit it but whenever it cant be avoided I let my girlfriend do the ladder work as she is really fearless (and much tougher than I am!). I do almost all domestic window cleaning.
As for window cleaning, I love it (how sad is that) and so does my girl. We work together 3 days a week, the rest of the time I work on my own while she does other, girl stuff like shopping and manicures etc.
I look forward to trying to help everyone with my comments, but I'm not all that experienced so please bear with me.
Thanks
Dave
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As a final closure to our entry, we note your first comment on cleanitup.....I rest my case!
DR Windows first entry:
New to Cleanitup
« on: February 18, 2008, 09:02:43 AM »
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Hello fellow cleanitupers.
I have been viewing the forum for a while now but only just started contributing so I thought I might as well introduce myself.
My name is Dave and I have been window cleaning for 9 months following taking voluntary redundancy. I use a 600 litre thermopure reach and wash system out of a renault trafic van. I have never used ladders and I have the upmost respect for you boys who do because I am terrified of heights. Ashamed to admit it but whenever it cant be avoided I let my girlfriend do the ladder work as she is really fearless (and much tougher than I am!). I do almost all domestic window cleaning.
As for window cleaning, I love it (how sad is that) and so does my girl. We work together 3 days a week, the rest of the time I work on my own while she does other, girl stuff like shopping and manicures etc.
I look forward to trying to help everyone with my comments, but I'm not all that experienced so please bear with me.
Thanks
Dave
thats brilliant may be he should let his girlfriend do his arguing from now on ;D
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HA ha well done you can read old posts. I have nothing to hide, like i said I (and my girl) have been window cleaning with waterfed pole for years, which is much more than you have.
I dont see why you think that this "rests your case" though, you havent revealed anything I didnt already tell you. I am by no means a terrifically experienced window cleaner, but I have 100% more experience with WFP (which is THE MAIN METHOD OF WINDOW CLEANING) than you.
My girl (who doesnt window clean anymore) knows more about it than you too.
Why don't you go and find another forum to spam, and attack the memebrs there when they ask awkward questions that you cant answer.
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tos pot comes to mind .MR dr
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DR who said WFP is the main method?? i think youll find its far from
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Even when drwindows put up that post he said he has been window cleaning for 9 months. How long does it take to get a NVQ!
Like I said experience (no matter how little) just pushed aside in favour of a piece of paper to hit government targets.
the courses help prevent bad work practices i do agree they are no substitute for experience but the problem with experience is that you may be performing tasks which at one time was acceptible but which are now totally illegal.
window cleaning has changed dramatically over the last ten years and is still changing these courses help inform us how to run our businesses safely and legally under new legislation, we may not agree with some of the requirements but it is still our duty to abide by them.
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Well I think its worthwhile doing the course, it does make you think about what can go wrong and what you can do to put it right (risk assesment) it doesn't teach you how to clean windows but it shows prospective customers that you are serious about window cleaning and run a proffesional outfit. Tomy was it you that showed me your hot system in Leeds , if so i would like to have another look if thats ok Regards Dave. :)
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dr windows you are shooting yourself in the foot mate, so what if they havent done a million years plodding in the rain cleaning houses, the guys are there to get you a certificate based on the health and safety side of cleaning THE COURSE DOES NOT TEACH YOU HOW TO SQUEEGEE A WINDOW its about cleaning safely at height
If you dont wanna do it fine, just dont go knockinh it, you end up sounding like the plonker my friend, and dont always go on EXPERIENCE, i know lots of old cleaners, but it doesnt mean they are professional, insured , safe or anything else, just they have been picking up bad habits and doing things wrong for a long time, shame they dont do an nvq and learn the right way :)
ANy serious window cleaning business needs eventually to get some PROOF of competence
otherwise serious clients wont take a second look
not talking council houses here, but big jobs!
:)
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;D hand bags at dawn :o
Nice interview on talk sport
Did he get interviewed?
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yes that wos me david
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I have known Andy Willis for years and he is very knowledgeable about all things
window cleaning, especially commercial window cleaning.
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DR WINDOWS i think u need to calm down pal.ive been WC for 15 yrs TRAD on domestics only.i use TRAD poles,ladderstoppers and mitts.i dont need these nvq things as ive got common sense and experience! ;Dbut i think when it comes to commercial they are a good thing in general just not for the work i do!ur bad attitude will get u nowhere fellah
best wishes dazmond
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I would like to thank Karl Robinson for his time at the show and for showcasing our stand/services on his blogspot www.robinson-solutions.blogspot.com
I have linked it in for all to see and will welcome any feedback/suggestions for our new passport, we are launching the product at Windex 2010 and feel it is going to meet every window cleaner/companies and clients needs.
http://www.cleaning43.com/latest-news/latest-news-article.php?latestNewsID=726
The new passport website is www.competencychecker.com , we have used a ex NVQ candidate as an example, type in Hewett or progress
Is the compentency live yet?
Dean
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Hi Dean
I will give you a call regarding the new project, I don't want to cause any further debates and we are currently looking at what we can do advertising wise with it. The main reason I put it on the forum was to get some feedback and any ideas/improvements, we are not launching it fully til March at Windex
Thanks
David
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Hi Dean
I will give you a call regarding the new project, I don't want to cause any further debates and we are currently looking at what we can do advertising wise with it. The main reason I put it on the forum was to get some feedback and any ideas/improvements, we are not launching it fully til March at Windex
Thanks
David
im waiting for an email Mr Willis senior as per talk he had with me...
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I have never used ladders and I have the upmost respect for you boys who do because I am terrified of heights. Ashamed to admit it but whenever it cant be avoided I let my girlfriend do the ladder work as she is really fearless (and much tougher than I am!).
;D ;D ;D
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did you get my emale david aca pits
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tomy
Dont think I did
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sory but not you but the lad at top of this page davidpitts ;D he wos on the nvq corss with me and a long with sean dyer
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Yes got it thanks, I will give you a ring :)