Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Simon Gerrard on October 08, 2009, 08:54:45 pm
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I notice someone started a topic entitled 'I need Experience.' First of all, good on ya mate for having that level of awareness of you're own shortcomings and being prepared to do something about it.
With all this talk of new association and with it the supposed need for better training in this country, which I think is total bunkum.
What we actually need on the training front is a mentoring scheme.
There are lots of highly skilled professionals in this industry who I am sure would be only too happy to act as a mentor to a less experience, less skilled newbies. It goes without saying that EVERYONE entering this business should attend a recognised training course and learn the basics, but from there they are generally on their own and have to learn the practical side of the carpet cleaning trade 'on the job' where they can make many mistakes and harm their future prospects.
But if those people put their names forward and were then give a local ( but not local enough to be considered a competitor) mentor with similar equipment who they could spend a few days a month with while they applied the practical knowledge learned at their training course and got on the job tuition from their mentor and thereby help make them a better, more rounded professional.
This wouldn't cost anyone anything, but the results of such a scheme could be invaluable, not just to the individuals concerned, but to the industry as a whole?
Simon
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Good post Simon for once i agree with you its a Great Idea ;D ;D
Are you going to be the first to offer your services ?? (Not to me as your to close)
Paul
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Yeah, I'm up for it.
Simon
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You won't be the 1st though, Iv'e had a few out with me.
Simon.
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Seek and you shall find.
Doesn't this happen anyway? The people who want to learn make the effort to find a Mentor. These people are generous with their time and knowledge and has to be respected.
This is a positive aspect of the forums because it brings people together who might not otherwise meet.
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Agreed, some people actively seek out someone to mentor them, but what about making it more widely known that such a scheme is available. Don't forget we are all quite wary of would-be competitors. If we had an properly organised scheme we may encourage many more to come forward.
Simon
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is this idea patented mr G or can i nick it for tacca ;D
bladdy good idea.
derek
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Its not just about going out cleaning carpets with somebody else is it ? Its the help with adverts, Leaflets, telling them were to advertise and technical help like pricing, what equipment to buy and just being at the other end of the Phone for when the need Help or to let off steam.
Glynn that posts not having a go at you either i know you have helped a lot of people with Truckmounts repairs, Training and Pricing if only there were more people willing to help each other like you.
Paul
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Simon
Grasshopper, when you can pick up the bloody phone and have the balls to ask for help, it will be time for you learn. ;D
Who knows Simon, give it a go, it may work well. :)
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need Help or to let off steam.
Paul
;D ;D ;D ;D
you crack me up paul
derek
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Hi Guys
another forum had a mentoring scheme but it never really got going.
Lot's of CC's have offered help to newbies in the form of days out on the job.
I even pass on surplus work to a new local CC, although I do know him from a club we both use.
Maybe CIU, as the largest forum, could try a mentoring scheme but who is going to run it ?
Cheers
Doug
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Its a great idea,but when i posted for some help about 6 weeks ago,i got a nil response which was really disapointing.Im a newbie,and had to go out on my own,hope other new cc's are more lucky.
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Doug,
Surely all that is required to get this going is to recruit a sufficient number of willing Mentors who have say 3 - 5 years experience in the business. They would need to be people with both portable and Truck Mounted equipment so they could paired trainees with the same equipment. The list of mentors around the country could be held on a sticky subject at the top of the board where people looking for a mentor can simply click and look for a mentor near them.
Then all that is required is a mass email to all members of the forum advertising the service. We will do the same on the Truckmounter's forum.
What do you think.
Simon
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Without meaning to be cynical. WHY would you offer to mentor someone who wishes to start up a business when they could, after a short time put you out of business, or significantly reduce your market share?
Mentoring has been available for 15 - 20 years through local Business Gateway type initiatives and anyone starting up in any business should have found that out for themselves!
Sure, it's nice to be nice...............but it's a bu**er trying to remove these knives from your back a little while later.
There's been some publicity on here about a form of mentoring being offered and it sounds fine on the surface, but the outcome is likely to be damaging to existing organisations who already provide the industry with training and products.
Also.............
There are likely to be legal implications should any incident / accident take place while offering such a service. From recent posts on here newstarts are having no difficulty finding adequate training to start up in carpet cleaning.
More advanced training is a different issue and there is room for someone to set up a co ordination between existing training providers rather than attempt to start up a new organisation.
Unless, of course they intend turning it into a business.
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I have received a lot of help from fellow cc thro the forums and phone calls and appreciated it.
I have also given a lot of help the same way, only this week I received a call from someone wanting help who has posted on this thread.
However, I am in agreement with Robert in as much as when it gets formal then other implications kick in, as he states in the previous post.
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I notice someone started a topic entitled 'I need Experience.' First of all, good on ya mate for having that level of awareness of you're own shortcomings and being prepared to do something about it.
With all this talk of new association and with it the supposed need for better training in this country, which I think is total bunkum.
What we actually need on the training front is a mentoring scheme.
There are lots of highly skilled professionals in this industry who I am sure would be only too happy to act as a mentor to a less experience, less skilled newbies. It goes without saying that EVERYONE entering this business should attend a recognised training course and learn the basics, but from there they are generally on their own and have to learn the practical side of the carpet cleaning trade 'on the job' where they can make many mistakes and harm their future prospects.
But if those people put their names forward and were then give a local ( but not local enough to be considered a competitor) mentor with similar equipment who they could spend a few days a month with while they applied the practical knowledge learned at their training course and got on the job tuition from their mentor and thereby help make them a better, more rounded professional.
This wouldn't cost anyone anything, but the results of such a scheme could be invaluable, not just to the individuals concerned, but to the industry as a whole?
Simon
Very good idea,
However you will need to ensure your insurance cover this extra person at least for 3rd party risks.
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Guy's, guy's, guy's, come on, focus a little. This is a very simple, straightforward proposal. We get a number of willing mentors to post their names, phone numbers, type of equipment and location on a sticky topic entitled Mentoring Scheme (or whatever) at the top of this and the Truckmounters forum. Anyone interested in having a mentor can make contact with someone in their area / region. No one but a complete idiot is going to mentor someone so close to them that they could be training a competitor. I, for instance wouldn't take someone on inside of a certain radius of where I am and it would be up to the mentor to decide whether or not to take the person on.
There's no contract, no legal obligations, you're just taking a guy out with you for a day or two and speaking to him on the phone, you're just doing the guy a favour. People still do favours for people, don't they, or is that infringing their human rights or something? (probably knowing this pc world of ours)
Simon
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Ok , can I start?
I offer........ training to anyone more than 50 miles from Dorset/south Hants mentoring in , Low moisture cleaning, using pad/buffer, fire and flood restoration, database marketing, general cc business tips 17 years experience.
I seek........ Training in the use of a HM 421 truckmount.
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Simon,
I know a number of c/c who have mentored other interested parties, including myself for a couple of members on here, and in fact I myself was mentored by M.Halliday who is only a mere few miles away along with lots of advice, lots of help and even equipment, I dont think Mike is too worried about his business been affected. I also know he has helped many others in the same way. One of the first things i remember him saying too me when we first met was " Enough work for decent cleaners in the area " and "come and spend some time with me, find out if you like it first".
Thats the beauty of a mentor, you can decide before committing.
Make your mind up time.
Geoff
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I too had the fortune to learn from a c cleaner or two who were in my area many years ago and still get work and pass work and help another c cleaner who is 5 mins away from me(roger dr carpet)
Maybe geoff we were lucky i guess ;D
Noticed the newbies have not even put any details on there profile so guess people are reluctant to take it any further for any help ???
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Ok , can I start?
I offer........ training to anyone more than 50 miles from Dorset/south Hants mentoring in , Low moisture cleaning, using pad/buffer, fire and flood restoration, database marketing, general cc business tips 17 years experience.
I seek........ Training in the use of a HM 421 truckmount.
shame about the distance, i'd of gone for that. :(
derek
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Ok , can I start?
I offer........ training to anyone more than 50 miles from Dorset/south Hants mentoring in , Low moisture cleaning, using pad/buffer, fire and flood restoration, database marketing, general cc business tips 17 years experience.
I seek........ Training in the use of a HM 421 truckmount.
shame about the distance, i'd of gone for that. :(
derek
3.5 Hours from Manc, 29 quid for travelodge up the road, easy done.
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Hi Guys,
Simon, I belive mentoring is best sorted out by individual members on a casual basis, setting up a scheme raises various legal issues.
Personally I am extremely busy with CC, Websites, and putting together a structured training programme and wouldn't have the time to dedicate to a mentoring project.
Cheers
Doug
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Does anyone want to know how to fit aerials, cctv's and alarms? ;D
Matt
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no thanks, seen watchdog yesterday, taught me every thing ;D
bet that make sya blood boil donit?
derek
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Derek
Don't think you've read Matt's previous posts or you'd be on your way to his door !
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Doug,
That is what I am talking about. Just a list of people willing to mentor newbies and then the newbies make contact. It can't get any more casual than that?
Simon
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I advertise carpet cleaning and have it on a leaflet.. I do nothing to actively market it and cleaned the occassional carpet when I had a big residential window cleaning business. I have limited experience in the different carpet types and to be honest I managed to get by, more by luck than anything else. If I get any work these days I give them Chris Rushtons number
I have three carpet cleaning machines, a CFR 1000 and a CFR 500 and a Ninja. I would like to get the opportunity to learn from an experienced carpet cleaner and to understand this market sector.
What do I have to offer - I am experienced in multiple services, from drain jetting, chewing gum removal, pressure washing, wfp window cleaning, roof cleaning and whole project cleaning (externally) on supermarkets.
I know what I am talking about and have run at this level for three years. I see this as a positive move and an excellent suggestion. I am aware of Simons experience and his client base and I would have thought that others have other high profile clients.
What is not being capitalised on is networking and utilising other peoples client bases.
Using my business as an example. You could offer my services to your clients and take a percentage off the top, for no work. Vica versa I offer your services and you do the work.
You have to be confident in end product and have a good working relationship but this works.
All of my current works are through two painting & decorating firms. I get plenty of well paid work, they make a percentage off the top. Everyone is happy. You can effectively run a much bigger service , if you link up with the right partner.
Food for thought.
Rob ;D
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Doug,
I'm a bit surprised you don't seem to want to support a mentoring scheme. I know you're an intelligent guy so will easy see that this is nothing more than people doing a favour for a colleague. There are no legal issues about doing favours for people. Or is it the case that you don't want to see a mentoring scheme because you're setting up a training scheme and would rather charge people for something they could otherwise get for free?
Also, don't you think training is best left to the professionals?
Simon
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another forum did a mentoring scheme about 4-5 years ago I was one of the mentors for South Yorkshire and it never took off I even think it had insurance backing.
Shaun
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Grow up Simon.
Doug,
I'm a bit surprised you don't seem to want to support a mentoring scheme. I know you're an intelligent guy so will easy see that this is nothing more than people doing a favour for a colleague. There are no legal issues about doing favours for people. Or is it the case that you don't want to see a mentoring scheme because you're setting up a training scheme and would rather charge people for something they could otherwise get for free?
Also, don't you think training is best left to the professionals?
Simon
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Peter,
This part of the sentence applies particularly to you, 'would rather charge people for something they could otherwise get for free?' Don't you believe in doing things from the goodness of your heart, or does everything in you myopic little world have to turn a profit for Pete Sweeney Plc?
Simon
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;D
Simon, you just get more priceless by the minute.
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Hi Guys
I have had lots of CC's ask me to put together a more structured course on stain removal and I am in the process of doing to do this.
If anyone doesn't want to attend , this is of course their perogative.
I prefer to use my energies positively.
Cheers
Doug
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Doug,
What actually qualifies you to form a structured training course ?.
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Peter,
You are supposed to be the Communication Director for CLEAN Association, I assume that means you are the 'front man.' Well I have to say you are doing a pretty p poor job of it, Sonny Jim.
Only the other day on Truckmounters your response to questioning from people that weren't in favour of your new association was to delete your membership, how childish is that? How can you possibly communicate with the people on Truckmounters, some of them the very top people in the business, people you will need on your side if your project is ever to succeed, but Mr Communications Director in no longer a member.
If your new association is so full of virtue then it will withstand any degree of questioning, negative or otherwise, but you seem to be running scared all the time and just get hostile and throw your dummy out of the pram like some spoilt kid.
I would really love to be in support of your project, but the more people I speak to about it just reinforces my initial instinct when I heard that you were involved, that all it is just a money making scheme. Indeed, whenever I have put that very question to people, 'Is this just a money making scheme?' The answer is just one word, 'Yes.'
Simon
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I think a new modern type association is needed very much.
What ever developes will not be to all men for all men.
NCCA does not cover in any advanced stages, Rug cleaning/repairs, leather restoration,fire & flood, marketing and anything really to an advanced level.
Yet it has some excellent directors capable of that.
A big part of this industry is networking and forums which the NCCA dont do..
I believe a closed forum is required for the more advanced cleaners, and a more modern association is needed for all to develope.
But this needs to be developed and run by creative and experienced forward thinking cleaners.
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Paul,
I couldn't agree with you more. The trouble is that this new CLEAN Association is being developed behind closed doors, in secret, with no consultation whatsoever with the carpet cleaning industry. It's as if those setting it up think they know better than us what WE want from any new association. So what we will get in the end is something served up from 'on high' just like the NCCA, how forward thinking is that?
I think it would have been far better to have done a lot of research into what people actually want from a new association and then form a team of people with the proper experience and skills to make it happen, instead of just cobbling something together because it will make you the most money, which allegedly is really what this new edifice is all about.
Simon
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Hi Guys,
6 years as an Industrial chemist, 2 as Technical Manager and 2 as Quality Control manager, where I ran courses to train shop floor workers in technical subjects.
Over 25 years CC experience, more if you include part time while still at school.
I introduced BS 5750, the forerunner to ISO 9001, which involved a great deal of structure.
I have also developed urine neutralisers, enzyme products and a few other chemical compounds.
When I say Industrial Chemist this is to distinguish between chemist and pharmacist, in the country if you say to people you are a chemist, many think you develop/dispense drugs.
Cheers
Doug
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Hello
My name is Denise. Peter is my husband. He has gone to the shop and I feel I must defend him. I laugh at our discussions over these forum things and am not usually interested but the abuse he has recieved over all of this is quite upsetting. I can't believe some of what I have read.
Peter has spent hours on the phone to many of you helping you with ideas on getting your business working better, I should know.
He is an honourable man and does what he does for self fulfillment. I feel sad that he has had little protection from these attacks and whilst he says it does'nt bother him I know it does so those whom he has helped for no reward please stand up and say it as it is.
I know he will be upset that I have done this as he is a proud person and likes to look after himself but as his wife I can't just not comment. Surely the likes of Dave, Paul, Shaun, Doug and more I'm sure will vouch for his motives as I know he thinks very highley of you all.
Sorry but I just could'nt let him take all this on his own.
Denise
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wish we had a shop that stays open after 11 on a saturday night. cupboards are empty and ive got the munchies. oh well, sprouts and custard it is then ;D
seriously ;D
derek
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Denise,
I do hope you get to read this
you are dead right what you say.
I know Pete is a helpful guy.
Just there is a huge clash of personalities form time to time.
I wish they didnt happen and I have expressed this on truckmounters where it all began on this occassion.
What Pete and others are doing to organise whatever is up to them.
When its time for them to speak and offer what they have they will get a response or not.
Its easy to say dont let it worry you what is said because I know it does have an affect. I know cause I am getting the flack on CCDO right now and not for the first time, and it does trouble you.
At times I feel like packing in the forums because of it all - but you know there are more gooduns then the not so good uns. Like Pete I too enjoy helping others, and I know many of the other members of the forums do to. Its just we have to put up with those who are lacking in some areas that it brings out the nasty side of them.
So at the end of the day it really is not worth the worry.
Pete will survive, I will survive, life will go on even without the forums.
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Hi Guys and Denise,
Of course Pete is a honourable man, and most on here know that.
I have always believed CC's are intelligent people who know what is going on and know what Pete, myself and others are trying to achieve is for the good of the industry.
It is ineviatable that some people will be negative, cast aspersions etc but have no real backbone or drive to actually achieve anything, it is so much easier to criticise than to build .
The most important thing is to keep pushing on.
Cheers
Doug
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Denise - You're a good woman and Pete is a good man, he said you were wound up a few hours ago when I spoke to him and well done you for saying your piece.
Critisism on these forums is rife at present, its a shame because it didnt used to be this way.
Pete knows who his friends are and they will always be.
Keep your chin up and realise that not everyone has the same opinions.
Petes a good friend to many just dont let the negatives get you or him down.
All the best,
Jason.
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Denise, i only met Pete for about 10 mins last year at CCDO, which he and Jason spent money and time organising.
He is one of them guys that likes to help other people, he also wants to learn from other people, all this he does for no personal gain.
Pete set up the Yell deal for a lot of people, from what i have heard on all forums, i would say 90% have gained. He got them all a good deal (wish i was in), again it was his own free time he put into it.
Seemingly he is trying to set up a new organisation, which i believe is in the very early stages, this tells me he is a forward thinking sort of guy from what i have heard. On the other hand there are people who seemingly have tried to set up this kind of thing before, but unfortunately has failed for one reason or another. That does does not mean these people have a right to shoot him down before he has even had time to put his ideas into practice, from what i have read these people are backing him in one statement and bringing him down in another, ( they like to think they have people on their side while trying to bring an honourable man down on the other hand)
These people would be better off if they stood along side him, and put a hand in to help him bring this industry forward.
I can imagine you feel very low, seeing your man working hard, and putting all his time and effort into something, at the same time, looking after his family, only to see him being broght down by others who are jealous , for one reason or another. Your husband obviously has a vision, keep standing by him, he is a good MAN.
carpet cleaners for carpet cleaners, not against.
Andrew
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I have never met pete in person but helped me out with yell and have been gratefull. from what i have seen pete is a pro active business man who is keen to share ideas and help others where he can.
the whole point of aforum is too use it too everyones advantage by sharing information to improve what we are all trying to achieve.
if people have not got nice things to say or anything constructive then dont say anything at all.
rant over good night.
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I was once quoted............." Do some people a favour and they'll never forgive you " Sounds wrong, but it happens all the time.
If you try to introduce change, you WILL get resistence and criticism as it's how people react when they feel threatened or think their secure niche is being invaded.
If Pete's the driving force behind this, there is a good chance if not a probability of success.
There are plenty highly qualified / competent and ligitimate trainers and courses which could be used by any organisation within the industry and if a new organisation taps into this pool of excellence and as a result raises standards and the profile of carpet cleaning they will be doing the industry and the users of their services a big favour.
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Well, Well, Well, I have also been reading the boards over the years I have laughed on many occasions also. But this is the best so far.
The last few pages of comments could have come straight from a Walt Disney film, I mean
“Carpet cleaners for carpet cleaners, not against.” (Posted by Andrew) the rest of that post I could not rewrite as it made me cry
(lol) This topic is about FREE help.
The forums are here to help people free of charge, members often help each other out via Internet, phones and in person. I have over the years made many a coffee for our guests, which are here for many hours while my husband fixes their problems, or spends hours on the phone helping them out, and they are all very nice people while they need help. But once they are safe at home and sat in front of their keyboards “some” of them practice their knife throwing skills. (See I have written this without the Walt Disney Effects)
As I see it any association needs the customers to recognise their importance (like corgi) because the customer needs to know that if the carpet cleaner they employ is the very best this land has to offer. So the associations need to be all seeing and knowing. As they are vouching for the quality and standards of the members. It also may take many years for customers to be assured the a trade association is genuine (watchdog has put a lot of people right about some of them which represent other trades). I my experience your own reputation says it all, in the cc world customers will come back again and again if you do your job right.
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Look at it this way, when you started your cleaning company did you tell everyone what you were going to do before you got your leaflets, business cards, insurance, van, machine, training etc etc?
The foundaions have to be laid first and Pete is working extremely hard and it makes sense that he does it all quietly as he has nothing really to report as there is nothing to report, work it out people.
Shaun
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Hi
I too have only met Pete once at a CCDO,but I have spoken to him a number of times on the phone.He has helped me a lot when I first set up in the carpet cleaning,with help on matters such as advice support and Yell.
I know if I required help now as in the past he would always find time to return a call.
Regards
Steve
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Shaun,
So you haven't even discussed the form and format of a brand new association and yet you're getting ready to launch it at the CCDO in April? You've discussed the membership fee, £109. You've discussed, and I assume agreed the content of the Entry Exam that is to be set by Doug Holloway and for which there will be a fee for taking it (that's a bit like Asda putting a turnstile at the entrance to their stores to charge people to come in and buy a can of beans). You've discussed, and presumably agreed that the industry needs more structured training courses because the current training providers and their courses are 'the toilet.' You've discussed and agreed who gets what flashy title, Shaun Ashmore - President, Jason Hedges - Finance Director, Peter Sweeney - Communications Director, Dave Liahona / Doug Holloway Technical Directors, but there is nothing to report?
Like I keep saying, I am not against this idea just for the sake of it. I am against it because it is an opportunity missed to create a truly inclusive new association that will work for the interests of the entire carpet cleaning industry. You can't do that with a behind closed doors dictatorship of self appointed egotists at the helm,who think they and they alone know what WE want. Wouldn't it be so much better if you'd had the humility to consult people and gather in views from all corners of the industry and build a new association on the basis of what people actually want instead of what you THINK they want?
If you think you have identified a hole in the training market, then start a training company. If you think you can start a national marketing / sales scheme for carpet cleaners, fine, do it, but don't do either of these things and call it an association because it's not, it's in all but name a franchise operation dressed up to look like and association and that is why you want to keep it secret.
Simon
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Look at it this way, when you started your cleaning company did you tell everyone what you were going to do before you got your leaflets, business cards, insurance, van, machine, training etc etc?
The foundaions have to be laid first and Pete is working extremely hard and it makes sense that he does it all quietly as he has nothing really to report as there is nothing to report, work it out people.
Shaun
shaun
when i started me business i told everyone, asked them for advice, used them as research, even went into town and did a survey on how they would search for services, quite a few newbies coming on here for advice before starting too.
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not getting this at all.
simon says what a lot of people are thinking and everyone gets upset.
its just a few words on a forum, you have a reply button and an off switch, your choice. but when the wife has to come in to rally support, i think its time to call it a day cos you really shouldn't be getting upset over anything on here.
we all get annoyed with certain people, but upset? "MAN UP FFS"
"MY OPINION, RIGHT OR WRONG" except it, ignore it or deal with it accordingly, but don't get upset about it.
derek
ps.... i suppose it does make for good entertainment though, better than eastenders on here. ;D
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As Doug says I think most carpet cleaners are pretty smart and can make up their own minds about any new organisation. I'm sure they have done their 'market research' and have a pretty good idea what carpet cleaners want and if they have got it wrong then they won't get any members will they?
Simon
You have put an awful lot of energy into putting the mockers on the new association and I'm just wondering... if the new association succeeds how that will reflect on your previous efforts to create one?
Maybe at some level you feel threatened, because at the moment you can always say a new association didn't work and wouldn't work now.
Just a thought to think about as it may not of even crossed your mind yet.
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Derek which wife are we on about Glynns's Mrs. Karen Waterworth or Denise?
Simon do you think that ITV wrote to the BBC when they had an idea to start another channel? there's not alot to tell until things are detailed and finalised then everyone can have the chance to see them all at their leisure. Nice to see that Paul has filled you in because his OWN private members click hasn't worked?
Shaun
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Derek we must get our mrs on here too ;D
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Shaun,
Yes Karen is my wife as you know you have met her.
She is allowed her opinion and this has nothing to do with me, so there's no hiding going on here let me assure you.
Karen has been a business partner and a director of the company for many many years and she is a member on this board in her own right.
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clinton
naaaaaaaa, she's to busy laughing at all the posts, she can't see the keys for tears in her eyes ;D
she's traded coronation street for this instead. tunes in at 7 everynight, and reads the omnibus on sunday with a glass of red and chocolate hob nob. ;D
simon
now thats a very small gap. ;D
derek
ps... bring on the battle of the wives, that'll make us look like teddy bears eating gummy bears at a fairy cake convention. ;D while wearing tu tu's ;D
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Hi Guys
By all means have opinions but please do not post insults.
Cheers
Doug
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Mike,
I'm not trying to put the mockers on anything. What you and others are trying to do is stifle any form of debate on the form and function of a new association, it's almost as if you don't want the carpet cleaning industry represented in something that is supposed to represent the carpet cleaning industry.
What I am against is the total lack of consultation and discussion on what any new association representing the carpet cleaning industry should be. If there's something wrong in that, Mike, or if you think I don't have a right to ask these questions or express my views on the matter then at least have the balls to come out and say so.
You don't have to agree with me, Mike, and clearly you don't, but you are clean out of order trying to suppress any discussion just because you don't like the subject matter.
Simon
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Simon
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm just sick of hearing the same old rant from you over and over again, it's boring. If it was someone in a pub they could move to the other side of the bar.
Can you imagine a carpet cleaning assiciation run by Simon?
If your childish rants on here are anything to go by no wonder you couldn't get any members. You come across as a complete bully. Can't see why anyone would want you as a leader unless you were paying their wages.
If you have even the slightest empathy for others you will realise you've said your piece and wait and see what they come up with or you will just keep on ranting away looking more Mr Angry by the minute.
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recognition
referals (lots of)
benevolant fund ;D
insurance
discounts on chems
mentoring ;D
none profit organisation
working for carpet cleaners to unite the elite and discedit the unworthy.
to help the customer decide
all these things are what TACCA's about.
and how did i come to all this.
from discussion, listening and asking questions.
food for thought for anyone who has or is starting a real organisation,
i'd join TACCA tomorrow if thats what it promised.
derek
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So i take it its true about the £109 per year to join as nobody is denying it so what do we get for our £109 per year.
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Darren,
Sorry buddy, all questions relating to this new association are forbidden, by order of Mike Osborne.
Mike,
You don't have to read any of my posts and you certainly don't have to keep replying to them. If you don't like what I'm saying, fine, just ignore it, but I don't think you have the right to stifle other people's views just because you don't like them.
Simon
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anyone watch x factor last nite :o :o :o
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I suppose it was predictable .............but some of the posts are pathetic. Derek, your recent post was one of the worst I've read on here but doesn't really surprise me coming from you.
I've never met Pete Sweeney, but from what I know of him, he is a real gentleman and will probably not respond to such a pathetic and insulting post .
When you started posting you were amusing, but your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance. You are clearly on an ego trip, but unfortunately for you, you are a boy among men.
Responding to a fool from a keyboard isn't quite the same as responding to a muppet in your face. In life it's usually the case that people who go on about " being the man " type crap are the cowards and the wimps in society.
You should immediately apologise for that post and try to consider the impact your rants have on decent people
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Simon I'm no fool, I realise you will never shut up. ;D
And actually you have a point. If people stop posting replies, your rants will slip down the order.
Billy
Who won?
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I suppose it was predictable .............but some of the posts are pathetic. Derek, your recent post was one of the worst I've read on here but doesn't really surprise me coming from you.
I've never met Pete Sweeney, but from what I know of him, he is a real gentleman and will probably not respond to such a pathetic and insulting post .
When you started posting you were amusing, but your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance. You are clearly on an ego trip, but unfortunately for you, you are a boy among men.
Responding to a fool from a keyboard isn't quite the same as responding to a muppet in your face. In life it's usually the case that people who go on about " being the man " type crap are the cowards and the wimps in society.
You should immediately apologise for that post and try to consider the impact your rants have on decent people
there he is, right on cue ;D
you make me laugh bob, keep em coming
all the best me scottish buddy
derek
ps... not sure where my insults were but i'm sure you'll point them out for me.
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Mike,
Why are you so opposed to people participating in what a Forum is actually about - discussion? If it were left to you every post would have to be vetted and censored to make sure you agree with its contents which is pathetic.
At the very least I've got the balls to stand up for what I believe in. You're just one of life's hecklers that like to stand on the touchline watching the game being played out and take great pleasure in shouting abuse at the players, whilst not having the balls to get on the pitch and get involved yourself.
Other than that I'm sure you're a very nice man, and I mean that.
Simon
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What I cannot uderstand Simon, is a bit like Mike I suppose.
If the new association thingy doesnt want to talk about it yet why bother to keep going on at them to the point a wife is obviously getting upset.
Cant you just let it go.
When they ready and they want to tell the world then the world can take a look and if they like it they go for it and if they dont like they wont go for it.
If its free or paid, its for them to decide.
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Derek which wife are we on about Glynns's Mrs. Karen Waterworth or Denise?
Simon do you think that ITV wrote to the BBC when they had an idea to start another channel? there's not alot to tell until things are detailed and finalised then everyone can have the chance to see them all at their leisure. Nice to see that Paul has filled you in because his OWN private members click hasn't worked?
Shaun
Wow :o a few are getting techy.
Shaun, can you expand on that ? as I have not discussed CLEAN with Simon.
Denice, Peter has his heart in the right place. When trying to do stuff like this you always get flack. Comes with the job i suppose.
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You'll be happy to know I won't make any comments on future posts you make, in fact you're doing me a favour, as I spend less time on here since your childish ramblings got worse over the past few weeks.
What started off as amusing, has deteriorated into something else.
If you can't, or refuse to acknowledge the posts being referred to, you're an even sadder little person than I thought.
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You'll be happy to know I won't make any comments on future posts you make, in fact you're doing me a favour, as I spend less time on here since your childish ramblings got worse over the past few weeks.
What started off as amusing, has deteriorated into something else.
If you can't, or refuse to acknowledge the posts being referred to, you're an even sadder little person than I thought.
you love me really robert :-*
derek
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Joe,
So just because they, or you don't want us to talk about it means we shouldn't talk about it. I thought this was an open forum where members can discuss whatever they liked provided they don't breach the forum rules! If people weren't interested in the subject matter, indeed the exchange of views from different perspectives, then why is this topic on it's fourth page with over 800 views in less than three days, but you'd suppress that because you don't like the subject matter, would you?
The trouble with you Joe is you seem to blow hot - blow cold, one minute you're all for something, the next you're not and the rest of the time you just sit on the fence, which is fine, you're aloud to do that on here because on here freedom of speech rules as does the right for me, or anyone else to talk complete and utter bollox, which is a rule I take outright advantage of at every opportunity. ;D
Simon
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but we have all expressed our views, shouldnt that be enough.
but its gone on and on and got very personal at times, which IMO is not good.
I stated my view on this new association thingy earlier when I said I thought it better to channel energies if possible thro the organisation thats been in existance for 40 years.
Was it Karen W that said it takes years for an organisation to get acceptance, I agree with that.
So whatever aims the new assoc has will indeed take a long time to get recognition on a wide scale, thats why using an existing form of transport would IMO be better.
Its not about stiffling discussion, Simon, the discussion has taken place now its just repeats and like TV it gets boring.
and as for 800 views, well some are just looking at the bun fight, some will love it, and some will say they not bothering again with them lot - all they do is argue. And thats a fact cause it has been said to me - sad really.
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But if no one is interested in the subject matter, why so many views, why so many replies.
What you're trying to do is stifle any further discussion of the matter because YOU'VE had enough, well fine, click on other topics and ignore this one, that's what other people do. There are lots of topics on here I'm not interested in so I don't participate in them and I suggest you do the same.
Simon
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Hi guy's
We've just launched the Mentoring Scheme on the TruckMounters Forum and have emailed all of our members in the hope of coming up with a diverse group of people willing to take newcomers to the industry under their wing and show them the ropes.
We hope that the moderators of this forum will feel able to do the same thing so that we can act as a community to help our fellow cleaners where required.
Glynn
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Mentoring has been around for a long time due to the forums, we have been offering this service in earnest for about a month I think Peter has been the most prolific mentor to date.
Shaun
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well done glyn, great idea and easily applied, all though i feel confident in cleaning now i still wouldn't mind going out with a veteran, especially a long the lines of bonneting as i'm quite new to it. and you never know what you might pick up along the way.
i hope ciu introduce this and sticky tab it to the top so maybe i can find someone who can help me out.
derek
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Likewise as you can't get enough mentors.
Shaun
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I think putting up a list of people willing to be mentors is bad idea.
I have been on these forums for about 10yrs over that time I have seen a countless number people thinking of entering a business or are new starters asking for help,
I have offered my help to about 8 but I chose these 8 if I had my name at the top of a forum I would have had 20-30 people contacting me looking for help, but half of them would have been idiots who I wouldn't waste my time with. This sounds a bit callous but there are people who are thinking of entering our industry who are not suitable.
2 weeks ago I went out to tea with a guy who asked for help on Cleantalk it was just 2 hours of general chat about our industry but before I invited him out I read his post post and chose to offer my help. The other side of the coin was a guy a couple of months go asking for help on CIU, who spoke in some stupid text speak and looked like he couldn't string 2 words together.
do I want my name & tel No on the top of this board so this type of person can call me.... not a chance.
if anyone wants mentoring then let them come on here or any other board and introduce them selves then ask for help. then we can chose who we are willing to offer our help too
plue as food for thought.... my wife has just done a 6month module as part of her degree learning how to mentor student nurses. Who says we won't do more harm than good
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Shaun,
Does that mean Pete will be putting his name on the CIU mentors list along with you and Doug, assuming he can set his commercial interests aside for the short time it will take to set up a sticky topic at the top of the board and get things moving on here?
Simon
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Mike,
Fair comment.
I wouldn't even consider mentoring someone unless they had completed a formal recognised training course and could prove it, and had already got their business up and running and could convince me in a phone call that they were worth investing my time in.
Simon
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Which sticky? Can't see one?
Shaun
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Shaun,
You need to get Doug to sort one out for Clean It Up. We've got one going on TruckMounters and Glyn's going to see if he can get one on CleanTalk (well, you can only ask)
Simon
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Have one on CCDO also.
Up to Mr.Boxxall really.
Shaun
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I think it would be only reasonable for anyone who believes they are suitable to be mentor to send a full CV (inc a 3000 word essay on why they are good enough to be mentor and not just a dilutional loser who has an over inflated self opinion of themselves ) to Mike B, then he might consider a sticky list.
but to just put up a list of anyone who thinks they can mentor is not sensible, Ok we have some very good bloke on here as well as Truckmounter, CCDO forum & cleantalk but also we have some experienced people who couldn't help a new starter but believe they could.
Mentoring is a good idea, but a list where anyone can put there name is not the right way to do it, it needs a little more thought.
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I went out with Geoff wrightson, I phoned him when I was in trouble or unsure a few times in the early days and to be honest if I hadn't gone out with Geoff I don't think I'd be at the level I am now. I now see Geoff as a very good mate and try to pass work onto him or speak to him whenever possible. I often get a message sayin I'm worse than him at answering phone calls ;D ;D ;D
I've also spoke to Pete Sweeny a few times, purely because he has offered out of goodness and is a very honest helpfull guy, I've never met him but really look forward to doing so.
I've had nothing but help from everybody on these forums and see the forums themselves as a mentoring platform,
Anybody seriously considering starting up needs to get out there and see how it's done by the pro's I reccomend it lots
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cut & pasted from CCDO forum
anyone wanting to use a mentor please contact a member from an area or person from the members list
Shaun are you saying every single person on the members list of CCDO forum has agreed to be a mentor?
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I think it's up to the cleaner who is contacted, if they say no then the person who called should move onto the next cleaner just as you would if you called out of the blue by someone one here.
Shaun
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I think it would be only reasonable for anyone who believes they are suitable to be mentor to send a full CV (inc a 3000 word essay on why they are good enough to be mentor and not just a dilutional loser who has an over inflated self opinion of themselves.
mike
with mr meldrum nastily and un called for, saying point blank i'm an egotist amongst other extremely insulting (and unprovoked to him) things, forgive me and my paranoia if i'm wrong in thinking your aiming that at me, but i'd just like to say that in no way or form would i consider myself a mentor on this scheme, and i have openly admitted that i could benefit from being mentored.
derek
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Mike,
It's just a list of people willing to help other people. If people don't like their mentor they drop him / her and vica-versa, simples.
Simon
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Mike
Mentoring is to support and encourage people to manage their own learning in order that they may maximise their potential, develop their skills, improve their performance and become the person they want to be.
How do you think people become say motor mechanics ?, do you think they have a full time tutor ?, no they pick up the skill by watching and doing what the mechanic does in front of them.
Isn't this just what we are talking about ?.
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Derek my comment was no way aimed at you, this is why this mentor idea needs more thought.
if someone came along and wanted advice about how hard it is to start a carpet cleaning business in today world, you could mentor them better than me because this is something you have just experienced, I don't know whats it like to have a young family and struggle, I have it easy.
I don't do any commercial work how can I mentor someone on this, it needs to be the other way round people ask then any one suitable offers
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Glyn an apprentice will watch a person who is qualified t do that job, a garage would let the tea boy teach an apprentice to change a gearbox , that my point just to ask people to put their names up as a mentor is wrong
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Mike,
If you were, but clearly won't be on the mentors list, you could sort all of this out during the initial phone call. I wouldn't mentor someone unless I felt I had the skills I thought the person needed, neither would anyone else, I assume.
Simon
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maybe a tag line in what your good at.
NAME MENTORING IN PHONE
derek west...................nappy changing.........................................0123456789
telling really funny jokes
derek
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Erm - Yeah, ok, Derek, well call you if we need you...... ;D
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well i was gonna put carpet cleaning, but telling funny jokes covered that ;D
its okay for you, your an expert on bra sizes ;D
i'm wasted on here, i'm of to the pampers forum ;D
"OH COME ON"
i'll see myself out.
derek
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And shut the door behind you and put the bin out on the way out the gate. ;D
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now i know what mike means by being more specific
NAME MENTORING IN PHONE
derek west...................nappy changing.........................................0123456789
telling really funny jokes for the under 50's ;D
derek
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That's ageism and Simon won't be in on it.
Shaun
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Hi Guys
As I have already stated I believe mentoring should be arranged on a more casual basis, i.e an arrangement between the 2 people.
To place a list on here implies that CIU have in some way endorsed the mentors, which they have not.
Who for example would mentor the mentors, making sure that the 'rules' are abided by.
I believe in a more structured approach to learning and despite what the cynics might say, this is in no way motivated by money.
Cheers
Doug
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Don't you all realise by formalising mentoring, it ceases to be mentoring and becomes teaching / training and that will either kill all of this stone dead, or make it unattractive to people who've been mentoring casually for many years.
The genuinely helpfull / approachable individuals might, stand back, as happens when committees start " running " the show and introduce rules and criteria, which is basically moving into structured teaching with all of the legal requirements kicking in.
When " rules " are introduced to something that's previously been offered out of compassion / friendship / selflessness, many of the genuine people will disappear.
What I'm suggesting is, by introducing all of the restrictions proposed it will become more difficult to find some one willing to give their time and experience freely.
Final thought on this........who will make up the criteria, everyone knows about " the theory "but many, including a man regarded as a bit of a god, does NOT prevac' would this excempt him from the " official "mentors list and what about the most publcised mentor in the past couple of years.
Drives busses through rule books and uses power tools where others might use a toothbrush, but many have been thrilled by what he does.
Is he barred by NOT " complying " So, before introducing rules maybe you should consider the impact the rules will have on the goals you set
Just a thought! The NCCA have a simple " qualification " which new menbers must take before admission. This little test has been cited as the reason many experienced c/c have never joined.
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Hi all
i have been asked to start cc and would like some help with this we are based in Ashford kent and as this post says about Mentoring would anyone on here know of someone in or around our area to help with this ??
i have hired a cc from hss hire and tried this out at home but didnt like the results so any guidence would help us out alot !!
The aim for us as a company is to offer a full range of services but also make sure we can do it well , if i could find someone to help us with this it can also work in a good business relestionship by passing work over ?
i do think if you get help you need to give that back in return in anyway you can !!
thanks
Darren
A O C
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Doug,
Does that mean, NO, there will be no Mentoring Scheme sticky topic on CIU or are you merely expressing a personal opinion.
If it is the former I hardly think that someone with such a clear conflict of interest should be adjudicating on this matter, I mean turkeys don't vote for Christmas, do they.
Simon
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but the casual mentoring will go on.
I remember back in the 70's I was a motorcycle training instructor for "L" motorcyclists for Cheshire County Council
I did it, like all the others, on a voluntary basis just getting paid expenses.
Then the government started to roll in formal training schemes which have now become private business run. I didnt like the thought so dropped out of those formal training schemes.
I carried on training experianced motorcyclists to get to and pass the Institute of Advanced Motorists advanced motorcycle test. This was then, and still is I believe, a voluntary scheme.
I preferred the less formal schemes.
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An excellent analogy Joe which I can relate to, having been in the Driver Training industry for some time and one of the reasons I quit was my resistance to the DSA's insistance that everyone goes " by the book " something I could never do and having the highest pass rate in the country was of no interest to the DSA examiners.. The other reason I quit was.......my carpet cleaning was growing and was returning about double the hourly rate I earned from Driver Training.
I've been predicting for a while the same thing happening to the c/c industry. It's already working through the rest of the Cleaning Industry with NVQ's becoming a requirement and that will be followed by H&S / Hygiene in the Workplace / Risk Assessment, etc, and worst of all RECORD KEEPING for the not yet created Cleaning Industry Commission.
Possibly Pete / Doug and co, are fully aware of this and preparing for it. Might be worth diverting the energies into that rather than mentoring , which could become part of a structured training course.
Think I'll back out of this discussion now
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Darren - A O C you can't just hire a machine from HSS & expect to get a good result if you don't know what your doing. You need to go on a Training Course to learn the whole carpet cleaning process. Google ' Prochem Training Course'!
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A mentoring scheme sounds good. I wish there had been one 30 years ago, internet and mobile phones too! However I did spend half a day with a Safeclean franchisee in Bristol (I was still in the army at the time). No way was I going to buy a franchise, but I started part time on my hands and knees cleaning carpets by hand, as Safeclean did in those days. A year and four courses later, out of the army, bought my first HWE, a Stimvac Junior. Then it was trial and error for several years in every department of the business from marketing to actual cleaning. It was long slow hard work finding out for yourself, whether you were doing right or wrong, investing wisely or just wasting money on advertising etc.
Yes mentoring is a good thing for the Newbie, and it can bring personal satisfaction rewards for the mentor, so I say if you are up for it good luck to you.
However I can imagine those disatisfied with a CC's mentoring, or those going to more than one, comparing one against the other and tittle tattle going on.
I know from personal experience that this happens, as I have had guys with me for a day, telling me what they didnt like about the other guys methods. I thought this extremely unfair, since the other CC had tried to help, and no doubt was saying similar things about me to his next 'mentor'.
Dave.
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Dave sounds like you learnt the hard way mate ::) :)
Joe
Same with the lifeboat service i guess and when the men in suits get involved its all red tape and your hands get tied behind your back..
We have similar in the gym here and the older guys like us help the newbies on the weight training side but at the end of the day we are not personal trainers mind you ;D
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Clinton
We've been involved in martial arts and football training for a long time in addition to running a Care business. The Paper Trail grows each year for all of these as government and local authority numpties try to make a name by themseves by pushing through " new initiatives " which in real terms make it more expensive and more difficult to carry out the work and the training. The same rules cover all activities, whether voluntary or paid. You can be " lucky " for 10 or 30 years and one day something goes wrong. As sure as hell it will involve the " wrong " person.
With the Courts endorsing big payouts for " negligence " where people have been breaking rules deliberately , or not sticking to their instructions / training, don't expect loyalty from your closest friend or relative when the smell of £100,000 gets into their nostrils.
Yes ........I know this sounds very negative, but if you're unlucky enough to be on the wrong end of a judgement your life can by ruined. It's sickening, but it's the world we currently occupy ! BEWARE !
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Think you are right robert with that post.
Shame really and spoils the fun and all the people involved we meet..
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Guy's,
I started this thread, so I'll finish it.
I think it is a really sad indictment on us all that we don't have the collective will to get together and do something simple and straightforward to help each other where and when we need it.
There seem to be a few distinct reasons for this, the first being apathy, which is to be expected, then there's the fact the person who would have to put this idea to the forum owner has a vested interest in there not being a mentoring scheme because he's developing his own 'structured training courses' and doesn't want people learning things for free for fear of jeopardising his bottom line. And then there are those citing all kinds of legal impediments, although no one seems to know what those impediments might be.
My son is a lawyer at a large legal firm in Manchester and deals with this kind of thing every day. I let him look at the 'legal comments' and he just laughed. There is no contract and no duty of care as the Forum is merely acting as a conduit between the mentor, who is not doing it for financial gain and is merely doing something out of the goodness of his / her heart and as most of the mentoring would be done over the telephone there's hardly a risk to life or limb.
There are message boards in Asda and Newsagents windows advertising all kinds of services, is Asda liable if something goes wrong? No.
All that is required to be absolutely sure that you're beyond reproach is to add a disclaimer, my sone will right it for us.
And lastly, isn't it strange that the CCDO and Truckmounters forums both have Mentoring Schemes set up as sticky topics at the tops of their boards, but not this one. Can't think why though ;)
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we moan about and laugh at the PC brigade and H&S and then we bow to them, sad really don't ya think.
derek
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Simon
I appreciate your intentions are good as are other peoples. The potential implications cited are for individuals who participate in coaching / mentoring / training, whatever, whether for gain, or not, nothing to do with the forum owners or businesses who supply the " place " where they meet.
Having experienced people give their time FREELY to help others is admirable and welcome by new starts or people too lazy, or too mean to seek out existing providers of training, which goes from novice to advanced and certainly NOT if you're a training provider, or supplier of goods / services to that particular industry )
When it jumps from individuals allowing someone to observe and get some hands on experience being expected to supply credentials before participating I think you'll find that's when legal implications arise.
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Robert,
What we're talking about here is a very simple, straightforward list of people willing to help other people, free of charge. I don't know what you envisage going wrong. Is there a risk that someone may trip over their own phone line when trying to call their mentor and hence sue, not just the mentor but the forum owners who were negligent in not carrying out a full and detailed risk assessment of every possible eventuality and then do the same procedure to cover all of the impossible eventualities before even thinking of telling people that there are some kind hearted people will to help you?
My son assures me, and he spent six years learning his trade, that no court in the land is going to hold a forum, or individual liable for some perceived harm done to a third party because someone tried to help him.
My son read this topic with incredulity, 'Why aren't people prepared to help each other, dad?' he asked.
I think that tells us all we need to know about our so called modern society, that we're all too scared or too apathetic to do something to help other people and all too often hide behind some spurious reason to do nothing.
Oh well, that's progress for you.
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I hope you're wearing a helmet Simon... All that bashing your head against a brick wall is going to cause some damage you know ;D
The guy who sold me the oven cleaning kit mentored me via the phone and I have to say, I can't thank him enough, that side of my business is now thriving!
Nick at Solutions is always there to help to as are all the team at Solutions and Hydramaster, John and Sam are always ready with any advice and tips I need to progress my young business. Neil47 is always happy to chat and we live in the same town, Goron's offered to help too and only lives down the road. It's all mentoring and it is all vital, not just for the individual carpet cleaner, but for our industry as a whole!
I know we like to be individuals, but we all serve a common purpose and that is to offer the public a service they can trust. None of us are happy when some muppet's wets someones sofa and charges £25, because the owner of that sofa will probably never trust "Any" carpet cleaner ever again. So we all suffer to some degree!
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Colin,
I am bashing my head against a brick wall, but I like to go to sleep at night thinking that I've tried to do something positive to help other people, even though it's a fruitless and often thankless task, but one has to try, doesn't one? ;D
Simon
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Shaun you still have not answered my question.
Any reason for that?
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Paul,
It's Mr President to you, that's why you're being ignored. Don't they teach you etiquette in Chester? Tut..tut. ;D
Simon
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I have been reading some of these posts with interest, I am a serial entrepreneur, business consultant, coach and Mentor. Over a 5 year term I built up a commercial cleaning business from nothing to a turnover of £2 million PA and sold a wide range of services including Office Cleaning, Carpets and windows. I sold this business in 2008
Since selling the business, I have gone on to attain a Post Graduate Degree in Business & personnel coaching, I currently work with Midlands based business to improve profits, relationships and equity.
As a Business Coach I provide a very structured process for business improvement, for developing the most suited areas and for attracting new clients or managing the clients you have better.
I have helped numerous cleaning companies, get through this recession, find new customers, new suppliers, get more money in quickly, sell their business and get a better Home, work life balance
I have the experience and I am qualified to assist any cleaning organisation, I am happy to help, Face to face, companies located in the midlands unfortunately I cannot give all of my time freely and will charge for a business improvement service to ensure we both gain I will however give away an initial meeting to CIU members to get focus and help drive your business forward.
If you want more information feel free to PM me or email on Geoff@CfBC.co.uk , please quote Clean it up for the free consultation.