Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: derek west on October 06, 2009, 06:29:42 pm
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recieved this today from alltec.
think this guy died a while ago and altec are selling his setup to raise money for his family.
i wouldn't say no if i didn't have one all ready.
top spec
details to follow..................................
Hi Derek,
We have a used truck mount and van for sale and we are looking for the highest bidder as we wish to raise money for the family.
The Machine: 2008 BLUEline ThermalWave II HP VORTEC® 69hp (running on LPG 80 litre tank fitted with external fill). This is our top of-the-range BLUEline truck mount with the high-pressure option (3,000psi), which is perfect for dual wand carpet cleaning or hard floor cleaning. With only 166 hours from new ? so just run-in!
Comes with a 330 litre sub-mount tank, Hose reel (with 150' of vac & solution hose), 14" x 2" Wand, Water softener.
Van: 2008 (57) Citroën Relay 35 L3 H2 2.2HDI 120hp (Just over 6,000 Miles) 3500kg gross wt.
The van was sold by ALLTEC in January 2008 and was completely fitted by us including the sign writing, insulation and ply-lining (walls and ceiling) with a special water resistant floor (Speedliner). The LPG tank in externally filled and vented and has a frame built around it with the hose reel bolted on top.
The van has "Traffic Master" Sat Nav & Tracker installed (we have reset this)
http://www.alltec.co.uk/page/1qw5j/Business_Opportunity/USED_TRUCK_MOUNT_SALE.html
derek
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That is one very nice set up.
Very sad about the circumstances surrounding its sale.
I truly hope that a good price is offered for the machine and van.
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Yes Joe very sad to hear, hope someone pays decent money for it, it does look a complete bargain for someone at the right point in their business.
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Mike ;)
go on, you know you want it...
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that is a lovely set up, i would love it BUT i just have this thing about that size van, i have a vivaro and that is a bit tight to squeeze into some customers drives and park in narrow roads etc, i just think that is a van too big,
colin :'(
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Its a Citroen Relay Colin.
I know its lwb and high roof but its width is the same as Shauns and I think Dave Lee has one too (Citroen/Peugoet/Fiat - all the same)
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I cant even get onto the site, page wont load. :'(
Geoff
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Now this scares the crap out of me (This van and machine was purchased new by Lincoln Harris in Jan 2008 from ALLTEC. We supplied/ installed everything you see in the pictures from new. Unfortunately Lincoln became ill later that year and sadly died in July 2009. Regrettably Lincoln didn’t have insurance against the finance loan on the van and equipment and now the lender wants their FULL TERM money from Lincoln’s children.) Who is liable for debits?
Len
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What a nice set up, unfortunately they will want their money back, and this will come out of his estate.
Am suprised he was allowed to borrow this amount without insurance or security against the loan.
Shows why this country is in a mess when finance houses give out this amount willy nilly as they say.
Feel deeply for his family, hope it makes a good amount.
Wasnt Jim Neal looking to buy one of these.
Andrew
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Think Jim was saying he's got his coming soon.
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now the lender wants their FULL TERM money from Lincoln’s children.) Who is liable for debits?
Don't think they can do that unless the children were part of the business ie directors or partners in it, or guarenteed the loan in some form.
You can't just go passing the debt down the family line until someone has enough money/assests to settle it.
Modified: Clearly if the estate hasn't been sorted yet then any debts become part of it
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Now this scares the crap out of me (This van and machine was purchased new by Lincoln Harris in Jan 2008 from ALLTEC. We supplied/ installed everything you see in the pictures from new. Unfortunately Lincoln became ill later that year and sadly died in July 2009. Regrettably Lincoln didn’t have insurance against the finance loan on the van and equipment and now the lender wants their FULL TERM money from Lincoln’s children.) Who is liable for debits?
Len
Awfull when these things happen . 3 years ago i had to watch my best mate pass away from cancer and lost his 2 year battle at just 28 years old . he didnt have a lot of personal debt but was enough to put a strain on his family about 15 k i think so 4 of us ran 3 half marathons and the london marathon to raise enough to clear his debts.
after that i decided i wouldnt put my family through that and took out an insurance to cover 500 k to cover me if i die up till i am 65 costs me 35 quid a month and never regret paying it.
Its a good thing that lincoln left such a good setup which hopefully will clear things up to some extent.
very sad
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what would be good is if someone with good credit, could take over the loan in thier name, therby the family would have no debt to repay at all.
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I believe this is illegal. No debt or outstanding loan should be passed on in this circumstance. MR Harris signed for the loan, not spouse or next kin. The debt is or should be written off when there is no other person or collateral item (home/car, etc) tied to the loan contract.
That said I don’t know the full details of the circumstance so can only speculate. I would suggest they speak to a solicitor.
Matt
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I believe this is illegal. No debt or outstanding loan should be passed on in this circumstance. MR Harris signed for the loan, not spouse or next kin. The debt is or should be written off when there is no other person or collateral item (home/car, etc) tied to the loan contract.
That said I don’t know the full details of the circumstance so can only speculate. I would suggest they speak to a solicitor.
Matt
Unfortunately, what "should" happen , and the law are 2 different things , when you die , your estate has to be balanced, your assets and liabilities have to be settled.
In this case finance is outstanding on the van it seems, and the finance co want thier money , harsh as it may sound the finance co is perfectly entitled to recover its cash from the estate, in a lot of cases this would be from the proceeds of life insurance, it seems it will not happen in this case.
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Matt
Who would you expect to pay this "written off" amount?
It just doesnt disappear into thin air.
As tragic as the circumstances are, there is an outstanding amount and, as Jason says, this will be taken into account from the "estate".
Even more tragic in this circumstance is I think his wife has already passed away leaving just their kids who are still young.
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if the kids are under 16 then the debts will die with him.
when my mother passed away on the 1st of June :'( :'( :'( :'( she did not leave much £££ but she had some credit card debts etc , I had to write to the debtors and send a copy of the death cert , they sent a sorry to hear letter back and the debit was wiped.
Ive since found out that this is a gray area and it depends on who the debt is with and what its for but the law sort of side with the 1s left behind
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what would be good is if someone with good credit, could take over the loan in thier name, therby the family would have no debt to repay at all.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Lets play find the carpet cleaner with a good credit score :o :o :o
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If this was leasedthen its a bit baffling as the equipment would still belong to the leasing company as Lincoln was only hiring it until a final balloon payment would have made it is. I would have thought in these circumstances the leasing company would take re-posession of the items and re-lease or sell them to clear the debt.
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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/DebtsAndArrears/DG_10013093
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Therefore if there are assets eg house, then these can be used to pay the debts
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I used to work for Ford Finance.
If a car is not fully paid for and someone dies / is ill / loses their job etc then the finance company do not have a write to chase the debt from anyone else HOWEVER they are legally entitled to take back THE CAR. Not the money.
So if I died and had 3 months outstanding, the company would be entitled to retake my car (even though i've paid 33 of the 36 installments). The family could then pay the remaining 3 installments and keep the car if they wanted to.
This was the case 5/6 years ago and I would have thought it would be the same now...
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so he bought this on finance just under 2yrs ago if he bought it over 5 years , say 25k cost plus interest of 7k so at the start he owed 32k he been making payment for 22months then I would guess he still owes nearly the full cost of the unit.
what would you say the value of the it is now £15k? its a hard sell
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Mike, according to the link, Alltech have bids upto £22.5k + vat
Andrew
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According to the link Mike, the unit new today would be worth 45k+vat
and the machine has 166 hours and the van just over 6000 miles.
Must be worth a lot more then 15k, dont you think?
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so he bought this on finance just under 2yrs ago if he bought it over 5 years , say 25k cost plus interest of 7k so at the start he owed 32k he been making payment for 22months then I would guess he still owes nearly the full cost of the unit.
what would you say the value of the it is now £15k? its a hard sell
From Altec web.....
"The cost the replace this van NEW would be £15,000.00 the machine £22,000, then you have the sub-mount, LPG, Hose Reel, Water Softener, Lining, Sign Writing etc… this would come to almost £45,000.00 + VAT."
Mike Halliday says the lot is now worth £15K two years down the line.
That Van and Truck Mount has lost a staggering £30000 in two years!!
Its dropping £1250 Per calendar month in depreciation not to mention the interest! I need a drink and a sit down, he was in the s**t from the outset, poor guy.
Matt
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but alltec already have bids of £22.5k+vat so the figures arent quiet right.
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according to alltec they have all ready got 4 people interested at 22k. if what they say is true then it should go for around 24k, so its not as bad as you trhink. still bad though.
i paid 22k plus vat for my original set up from new, i would guess i could sell for around 16k? ish, so i'm devaluing at around £600 a month but that slows down from now onwards. its the first year that takes the big depreesh.
derek
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I must have missed the link :-\ :-\
but how can you add the value of sign writting ::)
still think its worth £15k
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according to alltec they have all ready got 4 people interested at 22k. if what they say is true then it should go for around 24k, so its not as bad as you trhink. still bad though.
i paid 22k plus vat for my original set up from new, i would guess i could sell for around 16k? ish, so i'm devaluing at around £600 a month but that slows down from now onwards. its the first year that takes the big depreesh.
derek
Here's an Idea, get rid, work twice as hard with a portible and pocket the £600 per month.
Matt
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but did this link & pricing come from alltec...... yea they say I can make min of £200 a job and play golf all day
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that does'nt work for me either Mike...... I can't play golf ;D ;D
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Mike,
Dave Lee will be able to get give you a good idea of what they are new as he bought one around the same time, The 45k figure the come up with probably doesnt take into any account of what discount he had.
Paul
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As there are a fair number of add ons Mikes value of £15k might not be as for out as you might suspect but as a package I would reckon it could easily be worth around £24k ish.
Remember depreciation is on the capital goods not the embellishments
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I might be wrong but is'nt that tm somewhat the same or very similar to the Hydramaster Titan like Simon Gerrard has, and didnt Simons cost him around 45k with the new van?
If you read back on Mikes posts he put a price of 25k new, which is way off what I would expect for van+machine of that size. Its a big un - 68hp, puts my 15hp Prowler in the shade.
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according to alltec they have all ready got 4 people interested at 22k. if what they say is true then it should go for around 24k, so its not as bad as you trhink. still bad though.
i paid 22k plus vat for my original set up from new, i would guess i could sell for around 16k? ish, so i'm devaluing at around £600 a month but that slows down from now onwards. its the first year that takes the big depreesh.
derek
Here's an Idea, get rid, work twice as hard with a portible and pocket the £600 per month.
Matt
or work twice as hard with a truckmount and pocket the £600 a month and make even more on top.
always thinking ;)
derek
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Its a really nice piece of kit, and for sale under very sad circumstances, please let us all just all remember that before we pick apart anything, Try and think how your family would feel reading this if you died.
I'm quite willing to declare myself interesed, lets all try and do the best by the family as I'm sure we all want too.
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Well said Paul.
I have seen the van and TM last week when I had a trip to Alltec and it is as described. In the circumstances the best we can do is circulate the information as widely as possible to help to achieve a reasonable sale value. As far as I understand Alltec have taken responsibility for the sale to help out the guys family. Using this board to snipe at Alltec and devalue this package is pretty low. I am sure someone will be very happy to purchase this ready to go vehicle for a price of 20k++. I for one can confirm that the Thermalwave is an excellent machine and this machine looks as good as new.
Nigel
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Well said Paul.
I have seen the van and TM last week when I had a trip to Alltec and it is as described. In the circumstances the best we can do is circulate the information as widely as possible to help to achieve a reasonable sale value. As far as I understand Alltec have taken responsibility for the sale to help out the guys family. Using this board to snipe at Alltec and devalue this package is pretty low. I am sure someone will be very happy to purchase this ready to go vehicle for a price of 20k++. I for one can confirm that the Thermalwave is an excellent machine and this machine looks as good as new.
Nigel
that is why i put it on here.
derek
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Identical set up to mine, except that Lincolns includes a water softener. The list price at the time was not far off £60,000. we were both ex Fast track members and long term customers of Alltec, so with their very generous discounts actually paid in the region of £46,000.
I think Lincoln may have purchased his by lease.
I have leased a few pieces of equipment in the past. The thing I dont like about leasing is that if something happens, like becoming sick, losing business or indeed what happened to Lincoln, the equipment can be reposessed if you fall behind with payments. Its doesnt end there though, because as well as losing the equipment you are still liable for the full payments due in the contract up to the date of termination. This could mean your dependants having to sell your home to settle any debts due from your estate.
Dave.
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If I had the money and needed a bigger truckmount I'd definately be interested. Its a top end machine with all the bells and whistles, nice van and all barely run in...
For just over £20k its very fairly priced.
Alltec have done and are still doing what they can to help his faimily. Initially sending out an email shot asking for donations for his family in their hour of need and secondly handling the sale of his equipment. Hats off to them I say!
All the best,
Jason.
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quick update just in case anyones thinking about it................
Dear Derek
Thank you very much for your interest shown in the sale of Lincoln Harris's van and truck mount.
I'm sending you a quick update. And some answers to a few questions I've had.
Currently as of 11am Thursday 8th October 2009 the highest bid for the van stands at £25,000 + VAT.
If you would like to make a higher bid ... OR reconfirm your bid PLEASE EMAIL BY FRIDAY MORNING 9th October 2009.
The bids are subject to the bidder being able pay the amount of money or be financed quickly!
As you maybe aware Lincoln Harris sadly died this summer after a fight with Cancer. Unfortunately he didn't have insurance on the company Lease Rental Agreement with Lombard.
Unlike personal finance on a car any short fall from sale of the van will mean the outstanding debt will be charged to Lincolns 'Estate'.
The van sale will be agreed with Lombard ... As they will have title of the van and equipment.
I'm helping the family (with NO FEE) to get the best price for the van ... So 100% of what you pay will go to pay off the debt which is currently over £35k. While staying to you at £26,000 + vat this is a great deal!!!
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Just come on to give the same update
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I have asked the Question on Wiki Who is responsible for a car lease if the lease holder dies?
I think this is the same for a van lease someone needs to help these children if the lease company are asking for the full amount outstanding
They might not need to pay anything just let the lease company take it back
Answer 1
I'm not an attorney, but will try to get this answer started.
I think, YES. I think that the ESTATE OF THE DECEASED LESSEE [spelling?] is responsible. During the Probate process, the EXECUTOR or ADMINISTRATOR of an estate is supposed to pay the just debts of the deceased/estate.
If there are no assets in the estate, then I suspect that a debtor [in this case, the LESSOR]is stuck "holding an empty bag."
Somebody who knows more than I, jump in on this one. Just about any law school student ought to know the answer to this one.
Answer 2
The vehicle will be returned to the leasing agency and the leasor will need to file a claim against the estate for any deficiency in the contract. This type of claim is considered a "low priority" claim.
Family members are NOT responsible for the lease, or any debts of the deceased unless they are a joint debtor, or in some situations there is a surviving spouse and the couple resided in a community property state at the time of death.
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i'm pretty sure alltec no all the ins and outs of the law when it comes to this, and obviously theyve decided the best option is to sell providing they get the amount to cover the debt, no one knows how much deposit lincoln put down or how much is out standing so pointless commenting, the idea of the thread is to give awareness to get the best possible price for lincolns family. i'm sure alltec are acting in the best interest for his family so lets just get the word out that this system is excellent and open to offers till tomorrow.
derek
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The last post you did quoting Alltec - it says the debt is over £35k, so some way to go yet if best offer stands at £25k+VAT.
Lets hop somone else finds the money before mid-tomorrow afternoon
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maybe thats just a sales gimmick joe, come on this is alltec. but at the end of the day, they wouldn't try and sell it for less than the debt if giving it back would cover the debt. i trust they are doing whats best.
derek
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Are you going for it Derek?
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a year and half ago or in 2 years time, i would of snatched there hand. bargain even at 30k
derek
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As I see it, Alltec should be dealing with this package Out side of their company ( as a private sale ) therefore they would be able to sell without VAT. This alone would save £4500.00 should the sale reach £30000.00
This would make it much more affordable to non VAT registered buyers, if I was buying it it wouldn't matter as I could reclaim the VAT.
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"The van sale will be agreed with Lombard ... As they will have title of the van and equipment."
With regards to the VAT-As I see it Alltec are only acting as a third party to try and advertise and secure the best price possible in order to pay off as much of the debt to Lombard as possible.
Perhaps Lombard may have the compassion to write off any remaining shortfall after the van is sold.
Alltec have already stated they are acting without any fees so fair play to them.
Alltec cannot legally sell the van directly as they don't own it,the finance company does,this explains why the vat cannot be avoided.
Either way if the van was simply reposessed and sent to auction it would probably make a much greater financial loss.
It is in everyones interest to get the best price possible.
John
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Dave,
You paid £46,000 for a Vortex, van and extras and it should have been £60k???? ??? Crikey, I got a triplr, capable Titan 875 with a Renault Master 2.5cdti van with a 110 litres LPG conversion for way, way less than that. No wonder they don't sell many Truck Mounts, they must be applying Fast Track prices to their Truck Mounts too.
Joe,
I can assure you I didn't pay anything like £45k for my new Titan and van and the Titan, with 875 CFM's is at least a third more powerful than the Vortex and is triple, not dual capable, which makes it even better value for money.
In the circumstances I do hope a good price is got for this set up, but if anyone is seriously looking at a new Truck Mount it might be a good idea to speak to Hydramaster and negotiate yourself a more realistic deal, they'll even get you van at a really good price.
What you've got to realise is that when lease something, you're paying list price for the machine and the van and that is what makes the whole deal so expensive. IMO it would be far better to negotiate a deal and then if you haven't got the money, borrow it from the bank.
Simon
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Simon, You get what you pay for. ;)
Dave.
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Dave,
That was exactly my point, glad you agree ;D
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And I think knocking anything to do with this is in very poor taste.
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I would advise anyone who is considering buying equipment to steer clear of Lease Finance as appears to be the case with the truckmount.
The finance company purchases the asset on behalf of the intended buyer who then rents the equipment from the finance company over a set period 3/5 years. You then go into a secondary rental period equal to one months rent once the given period of time has passed . This is paid yearly until you decide to sell the asset. You keep 95% of the sale, give the finace company 5% plus the full vat. Remember you can never own the equipment, which can become a bit of an issue as the secondary rentals are pure profit for the finance companies. Straight HP is a much better bet.
Lease Finance is usually taken out when you get a new van and offload after five years. If the finace is taken out with Lombard they only allow you to sell to a garage or dealer when the times up, anyone else you can sell to whoever you like.
I would be interested to know if Lombard are going to take 5% of the sale price of the plus the outstanding settlement figure after all they are owned by RBS.
Regards
Graham
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Hope the kids walk away with a few bob
Len
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That would be good and what we should all be hoping for.
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looks like thats it, 5 mins left.
Hello Derek,
The bid for the Van and Truck Mount is now at £25,500. We are hoping to close the Auction at 3.00pm today. If there are any final offers please email me today before 3pm.
Regards
Robert
derek
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Somebodys got a bargain
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Paul,
More like a GIFT!
Dave.