Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Goldfinch PCS on October 03, 2009, 12:20:29 am
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Anyone here a part of Piranha Marketing (Joe Polish) and can share their experience?
or
Success Track Business Training Ltd (Jonathan Jay)
I once saw one of Jonathan Jay's videos and there was a CC on it from Leicester, can't remember the name of the company, So I was just wondering if anybody on here is a part of an of these marketing guru workshops.
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there was a CC on it from Leicester, can't remember the name of the company,
So that marketing worked well then. ;)
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if you've got no morals or a conscience, then go for it, it will work a treat.
derek
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if you've got no morals or a conscience, then go for it, it will work a treat.
derek
that's an interesting opinion, like to expand on it?
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okay mike, maybe thats slightly over the top, i know a few fast trackers and i'm sure they give value for money but not everyone does, the thing with all this fast track stuff that really winds me up is....
it tells you how you can make loads of money by selling to niche clients, and i'm guessing thats rich people, old ladies and gullible people who don't know any better. but no where, and i mean no where does it say, "oh and by the way, we'll train you up so your really good at cleaning carpets to justify all this money". theres some excellent cleaners out there. but theres also some crap ones who are good at fast tracking.
i'm regularly aproached to join the fast track programme and there sales pitch makes me laugh....
you can earn money without doing anything, money going in the bank while your playing golf or on holiday
in fact, on the phone, all they rave on about is playing golf, "imagine going out for the day, playing a round of golf while money is flooding into your account"
not my style. i like hard work, and i like it even better when i get payed well.
i'll never be rich, cos i can't conform to this style of working or not working as the case may be, all though saying that, they say you'll never hit 100k a year unless you choose fast track, i will.
from your comments i'm guessing your either a fast tracker or considering it.
derek
ps... any fast tracker out there earning 100k 200k a year and working all hours that god sends, my comments don't apply to you. but if your reading this from your blackberry on the golf course and you not in till wednesday cos your just off to paris shopping, while some old dear fills your account!!!!!!!! thems the ones
pps...i'm gonna get some stick for this one aren't i, oh well, bring it on........................
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Never taken a Blackberry or a mobile on the golf course yet, but picked up loads of work on a golf course ;D including the cleaning of the club houses.
Dont think Mike would be considering fast track if I know him Like I think I do :-\
He does well enough as it is.
Maybe wrong, sure he will let us know.
geoff
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maybe its because i don't like golf.
derek
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The thing about Fast Track is it encourages you to charge excessive prices and even gets you to believe that those excessive prices are fair prices, which they are not. There's also the selling of add-ons, like protection, which if the truth be told the vast majority of carpet do not need, but yet it is sold as a matter of course to up the ticket, which to me is nothing short of robbery.
You should never sell a client something when the only beneficiary of that sale is you.
I know quite a few fast trackers, and know of a few more and the ones that will talk to you honestly about it will tell you it is nothing more than a fishing expedition you have to go on every week to find gullible people, or people with more money than sense that will pay two and three times the going rate for a job that is no better than anyone else.
I like sleeping at night and ripping people off, which is what overcharging people is, just doesn't sit right with me.
Simon
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I became very unpopular on here a year or so ago for expressing exactly the same sentiments as Simon and Derek.
Not at Fast Trackers who mostly use the method to improve their business through better marketing, but by others who regard charging extremely high prices and working part time to be ethical and desirable.
I expressed the opinion that such people were the real cowboys and the ones who gave the industry a bad name.
This is absolutely NOT aimed at the genuine businesses who gradually increase prices annually and aim for a gross hourly rate around £90 - £100 per hour.
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Well said, Robert.
Some of the people you mention use their high prices as some sort of sick badge of honour, 'I charge people £xxxx's, aren't I good.?' No, mate, you're a tw_t!
I have never knowingly overcharged a customer for anything, I have never knowing sold someone something they didn't need and yet I still have a fantastic business with a loyal customer base that are loyal to me because they trust me.
Simon
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Wow! Guys don't kill me I am not part of any Marketing Program, However Derek is right I was thinking of joining one. I haven't decided which one and I wont use it to robbed people I am not that type of guy. I don't like hard unfair selling never did, however I could do with a few more top end clients to avoid competing on price at the moment. All I am getting from my new enquiries is why is my prices that much and it's all because of the majority of sites posting £5.00 per bedroom on the internet. London carpet cleaning is going crazy, can't believe the prices I am seeing on the net. It also seems that nobody reads the rest of the page for these site, because they would realise that the minimum charge for most of these companies is between £35 - £50, that's a whopping 10 bedrooms. I am winning clients but I don't want quantity I want quality if I am to be honest.
I mention Joe Polish, Jonathan Jay because they seem to have a massive following within their respective countries. The fast-track program I guess you guys are taking about is the Alltec Program. Jonathan Jay's programs seems more to do with Marketing messages and getting the words and image right. I have watched a couple of his videos and his programs aren't industry specific. It's mainly based around the internet, email marketing and the marketing message.
Has anyone got any experience of these two guys in particular, programs?
I saw this guy on one of Jonathan Jay's program - http://www.thecarpetcleaningman.co.uk/page/1cyf7/Healthy_home.html
I think he could be on Alltec's as well not sure, but he was confident that these programs work.
Another quick point Pierre De Wet is on Robert's program and he is killing it isn't he? I like the guy nothing stops him and I am working on that approach.
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I don't think fast track is as bad as what people make out, they charge high prices but if they deliver quality cleaning who are we to say they charge too much, most of the moaning is sour grapes by the people who charge lower prices and then have to justify it to them selves by calling fasttrackers crooks.
lots of carpet cleaner have convinced them selves that what they charge is the correct, fair price, if anyone charges more than them they must be crooks, if any one charges less they must be fools.
the only thing I don't like about fast track is how the trot out all thier success stories and tell everyone that Joe do-wet or billy Bobcock earns 200grand a year and charges £15yrd so it must be easy, what they don't tell you about it all the carpet cleaners who have paid the money and not been successful
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So they say £100K a year is only achievable by FT'ers ?.
What a load of rubbish, that's incredible.
I'd like to know whether the FTer's themselves would fall for the hard sell off the likes of YP, Double glazing etc etc, like a taste of their own medicine.
It's definitely not for me I prefer the good old fashioned sound customer/trader relationship where a premium service is supplied at a fair price and a long term friendship or business relationship exists between customer and cleaner.
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There's a total myth about what a good salesman is. The immediate thought is pushy, greedy untrustworthy.
This is more the traits of a desperate poor salesman. And yes we are exposed to them everyday via telesales YP, upvc windows etc, why? because these arn't good sales people they are desperate number turners a month away from the dole que.
The other myth is the - He's a good salesman he's got the gift of the gab. Well you can't talk anybody into buying something until they have decided it to themselves and bullying them into it just gets peoples back up.
Good salesman end up not having to sell hard because they put themselves infront of the right people and they know that the mortgage doesn't ride on getting the job.
The one thing I know about fastrak is it's not a one shot wonder, why would they try and screw some pensioner out of £300 for a suite when they are quoting in 6 bed high end homes everyday and go back every six months to clean on contract?
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All this is boiling down to is what is a fair price. This should be determined by the customer. We set our prices with whatever criteria we decide the customer chooses to accept or decline.
Simon - so what about the guy who charges £40 to clean a suite and thinks thats a fair price but you charge £100 and think thats a fair price and someone charges £150 and think thats a fair price. Whos right and whos wrong?
Answer - no one except the customer and if fast trackers earn £100k while playing golf fair play to them.
Mark
PS. IMO the only reason fast trackers make money is that they do something ie. marketing having paid the £4000. Ive got fast track (secondhand) but have made nothing from it cause I didnt implement it.
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i'm fine with someone charging silly money for a living room carpet, £40, £80, £120, its how you come to that price that borders on ripping people off, "oh' you'll need protector" "oh and anti allergen" "oh and you'll have to have the walk ways cleaned in 6 months" ??? "oh and then theres the fullclean again next year but you really need all this, watch the horrer video to prove it mrs jones, that'll scare you into handing over your hard earned/not so hard earned money, and if that doesn't work, anthea will convince you" "and the good news is your initial clean is on offer with 50% off, now you sign that direct debit, and youve been done, i mean! and were done mrs jones" "right, whers me golf clubs, just got enough time to do the back nine"
quote the price (however much) do a bloody good job and ask her if she wants it doing again in 12 months time. i can live with that.
at the end of the day, fasttrack is a hard sell option, implemented to you by hard sell salesmen. "i'll work it out meself thanks mr polish, you just keep making me look good" hell yeah!
derek
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Mark,
You make a fair point.
I think the guy that charges £40 for a suite thinks he is being competitive, because many in this industry see price as the only criteria in the competitive stakes.
Where I take issue with the fast track scheme is that they seem to be hell-bent on up-selling. For instance selling protector on every job where we all know that in the vast majority of cases the only beneficiary is the fast tracker by selling something the customer may not need and that to me is immoral. You could argue, I suppose, that if the customers says yes to it then that makes it ok, but selling something that the customer gains little or no benefit from to me is unprofessional.
Trust is a very big thing when trying to build a business and I for one would only recommend protector, etc only if I was convinced that the customer actually needed it.
Also, there is very little evidence that suggests fast trackers are on £100k. What they are shy about admitting is that yes, they get higher prices than the average cc but have to work very hard indeed to find people willing to pay those sorts of prices.
On the other hand if I were quoting a top end property with plush carpets and fabrics then I would be charging them a higher rate because of the extra work and time it takes to work on those kind of furnishings.
Simon
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It just doesn't stack up that they are ripping people off.
Every good business knows you can screw someone once and then you have to find another mug. The Fastrak scheme is all about developing clients and making money over the long haul. They even offer free clean loss leaders because they know the money is in the back end. How many carpet cleaners would do that?
And yes Simon, it does take a lot of effort to find and keep those sorts of Clients, that's the trade off and most people can't or won't do it but moan when they can't get top prices off their easy to get clients.
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Mike,
I think the trade off is, yes, when you're cleaning you're on good money, but then there is all the downtime while your doing all of the marketing and quoting that it takes to find those high price jobs, while the guy's charging moderate prices are doing job after job and may well be earning more money. That's certainly the suggestion I've picked up from the faster trackers I know of, most of them being ex-fast trackers btw.
Simon
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i get one of these every week and a letter every month
Hi Derek,
Finally, the new dates for the ALLTEC Extravaganza 200
Are You Sure You'll Have Enough Work In The Slow Season?(yes thanks) ;D
"Learn How You Can Organically Grow
Your Carpet Cleaning Business" (no thanks) ;D
What is the ALLTEC Extravaganza ...(a way of upselling alltec) ;D
Well if you want...
your average job ticket to be above £200!
your 'customers' to happily pay your 'going rate'!
not to worry about other cleaners under cutting your prices! (i don't worry, i'm good at what i do, its there loss) ;D
more confidence to help you up-sell on every job! (upsell upsell upsell) ;D
'your customers' to gladly come back every year! (they all ready are doing) ;D
win the constant battle of finding new customers! (i can't complain) ;D
Then the ALLTEC Extravaganza is for you!
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mither mither mither, thats what they do to me and i'm guessing thats how they'll teach me to do it to my custys, i read in one of the fast track books send them birthday xmasday even valentines day reminders, talk about high pressure. my custys would get well pee'd off if i did that, i know i would,
derek
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I became very unpopular on here a year or so ago for expressing exactly the same sentiments as Simon and Derek.
I seem to remember joining in on that one and agreeing with a few who weren't comfortable with the prices some seem to charge.
I have always had a problem with people selling add-ons particulary stain protectors on polyprop, anti allegy when no one in that household needs protecting, anti static and any other anti-thingy that just pushes the price up.
I've just had one of those Alltec leaflets delivered from a guy who works 17 miles away in a town probably 3 times bigger than the one he is delivering to, and it's full of scare mongering jibberish. part of me wants to copy this format but I like to think I have enough scrupples not to get involved in this cr-p.
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I became very unpopular on here a year or so ago for expressing exactly the same sentiments as Simon and Derek.
I've just had one of those Alltec leaflets delivered from a guy who works 17 miles away in a town probably 3 times bigger than the one he is delivering to, and it's full of scare mongering jibberish. part of me wants to copy this format but I like to think I have enough scrupples not to get involved in this cr-p.
Seems like Neil is tempted by fast-track. But Can I say I am not knocking any particular program. I guess most CCs in the UK are expose to Fast-Track but what about Jonathan Jay's Success Track? Anybody with any experience of that?
As far as price is concerned we have been talking about this and we will continue to for decades. But, £5 for a bedroom and £40 for a 3pc Suite?? OK fare play to that person it's his business.
I just wanted to know if anyone had any live experience of Jonathan Jay's Success Track or Joe Polish Piranha. It doesn't hurt to get some top-end custies.
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Seems like Neil is tempted by fast-track
I think we are all tempted by the chance to double our ticket prices but I refuse to sell anything that I know isn't going to benefit the customer one iota. Flip, I even tell customers (after inspection and telling them how to do it) to take suite coverings off and wash them themselves via the washing machine. Why? because they will get a better clean that way, I get to just clean the frames and they'll trust me in future for an honest approach to their cleaning needs with recommendations to book.
I know which system I prefere for continued honest custom. But each to their own I suppose. Some enjoy walking away with a cheque for £300 for 2 hours work and a sprinkling of watered down protector and some enjoy walking away with £150 and satisfaction for an honest job and a possible customer/friend for life.
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Let's face it the average carpet cleaner just goes in, looks around a bit and gives a price and when she says I'll give you a ring they walk out the door and that's it.
There's a big difference between that and even the most basic of selling skills, which as I keep saying has nothing to do with being pushy or trying to sell something they don't need.
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Can't argue with that Mike
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Seems like Neil is tempted by fast-track
Flip, I even tell customers (after inspection and telling them how to do it) to take suite coverings off and wash them themselves via the washing machine. Why? because they will get a better clean that way, I get to just clean the frames and they'll trust me in future for an honest approach to their cleaning needs with recommendations to book.
I thought I was an idiot, I have done this a couple of times well. I think about what I have done during cleaning the frames, it bugs me for a while as I could charge for the whole thing but now all I can do is charge for the frame. But I always get recommendations and a testimonial from my customer so I guess I should be pleased.
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You make it sound like fast track is like selling double glazing. Next they will be doing the show home offer,
You know if people feel like they have been ripped off, they don't call again.
But if they feel they have had a wonderful service, then great!
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So I guess fast-track has its highs and lows, its lovers and certainly haters. Oh well, I will give Robert a ring if I don't increase my number of top-end clients during the Christmas Season. I like to take on alternative views or ideas, it might work or it might not but nothing tried nothing gained.
So I guess there are no Jonathan Jay or Joe Polish followers on here?
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There was one company here near me who did the f t and they have now gone into cleaning hard floors etc now and franchise the work out :)
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So Clinton, it would seem as though there are good benefits to be had from joining Fast-Track.
That's good positive news. Thanks.
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Hi
They were in it from the very early days as i can remember so maybe got in at the right time.I did use some piranha stuff on my old yel pages years ago too.
Just found it was not for me mate and i did use the letter and keeping in touch ideas a bit.
I found it was really all my hard work and spending some time with the client when i was at there house
that helped them get to know me and get repeat and referal work from them and that has helped me run a very succsessfull set up :)
They have always been a front runner in the cleaning bus and foward thinking company so gues it did work.They did have a good few staff to help run it and still do..
Good luck with your plans mind you :)
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Goldflinch,
lets make this easier. You need a wall built, do you ask a plumber, electricain or a brickie?
Therefore how can anyone who has not been a fast tracker give a honest answer. You not been one therefore do not know how it works or whether it would suit that person, we are all different. I was not a fast tracker but a piranha member, and yes some of it was good, some I did not like. It suited me at the time.
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Thanks Karl, I wanted opinions off people were apart of these programs. But, it was still interesting to get the views of others who aren't a part of any programs and don't seem them as been useful.
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there was a CC on it from Leicester, can't remember the name of the company,
So that marketing worked well then. ;)
His name was Chris Bailey, He used to be on this Forum ,
I did get impression he was quiting Carpet Cleaning due to ill Health. Then he pops up Cleaning antheas Carpet . It appears to have worked
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Then he pops up Cleaning antheas Carpet . It appears to have worked
Is there anyone who hasn't cleaned Anthea's Carpets. Thank heavens Stan or Master Swen aint around no more or we would be reading about CCs with broken nose or the media blaming CCs for England's poor performance. ;D
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Chris is still around and does post on another forum :)
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What is so special about Anthea Turner anyway. She may be a nice person, but she is a has-been, has far as celebs go.
I am sure she works with Altec, through the goodness of her heart. Nothing to do with the money she is paid.
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Yaeh suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure