Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wizard on September 28, 2009, 08:52:18 pm
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I would also like to contribute some knowledge to the success of my fellow W/ C. From some observations I have made on this forum. Its has come to attention how many of my fellow W C have a fear to be honest with there clients. Little thing called rejection that keeps us away from doing better for ourselves. Dropping a costumer if we find we do not like how we have been treated by them .Think we miss a opportunity to educate them in the good treatment of us as an industry. To be bold and stand up to them will only give us a chance to show our side of the story Remember we are not working for a boss, we are the bosses and we own the company. So tell them your policies of our businesses. That means what we expect of them as customers, we hear what they want of us to aften.This must not be a mud slinging match. Down with respect understanding we can and will win them over .But be forewarned listen as much as you speak is a important factor in winning as the customer will only listen if we listen to them pay lip service to there point but do as you think is good for your business.
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i try my damn hardest to come to a mutual understanding on the work, but sometimes you have to accept that they aint gonna change so just drop em.
or hike your prices up for that paticular custy
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And I always find that its the cheapest cleans that give me the most disatisfaction
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The cheap priced costomer are the ones that do not understand the business needs or they would own there own business
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I think you've got a bad take on this wizard. I'm too soft, but most of the posters who are strickter have it right.
It was given on here the other day that the most common reason for them dumping us is speed, it's not.They dump us when they don't like us.They also treat us like rubbish when they don't really care either way.
You are right that a lot fo wc's fear rejection and this is why.
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I wouldn't be arrogant enough to try and teach you anything Slump It's not just us WC's that fear rejection . Nearly everyone does to some extent, that's why some peoples biggest fear in this game is door knocking. If some posters are stricter than you are, then, either they have unlimited potential to get any amount of new custies, or they are just spouting off.
You know well enough, this is a people business, and it doesn't matter how good you are or how clean you work, or even how professional you appear, if they don't "like" you, you are toast.
We have all had a oneupmanship battles and won sometimes, but it's not about how strict you are with your custies.They pay us in the end, and there isn't an infinate number of them within driving distance. So sometimes, even old hardnosed guys like us bite the bullet sometimes.
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I often feel a sense of relief after a good dumping [no pun intended].
People don't change, it's always the same ones that are slow to pay. Customers know we go every month, but it's the same ones that never have the money.
You can't be more honest than telling them you won't be coming any more, your just dishing out a bit of punishment for the way they have treated you.
Sometimes you have had enough of them making you feel negative about the job. dump them and work for decent considerate clients, you will be much happier.
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I am happy to see some debate going on.Its not stricketness is weather we have business proceedures and practices in place we are prepared to apply.DO we have rules or not and do we have the guts to impliment then. After all we make our own rules or are just to soft to be businessmen.We need to tell the customer before we so sweetly drop them, they may just conform.Ye.
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Dia the thing of dumping them is good as long as you tell why.As you say it does you good to know you are sticking to your guns. Well Down
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agree absolutley cozy. Some of the phone calls i have had you wouldn't believe, some of the little notes that come with cheques you wouldn't believe, some of the reasons i've been dumped you wouldn't believe.
I think my point is that, as an older chap, and a fairly successful one before i became a wc, and an even more successful one since, you'd think i'd be able to ride this, but it does affect me.
To a degree i think that is why i like sign written vans and uniforms etc, because it allows your self esteem some armour. Lots on here will know what it's like to have a great business and be working like a train, only to have some old bat with an eight quid job ring up and give you the tongue lashing of your life because some water got in the bottom of her back door.
Just read dai's post and he's right too, on a personal level, the problem is i can't walk away from the money.The other problem is, these attacks seem to come from nowhere and blow up out of nothing. Just lately i've had a couple of custies apologise to me- "I was short with you because my wife was dying...." "I'm sorry my husband threatened you, i hadn't told him i've got a window cleaner....."
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I'm one of the guys that leaflets, then goes around a couple of days later to ask if they got our leaflet, and ask if they are interested. If they say yes, I then tell them how often we come and how much it costs. I also ask if they have fly nets on some windows or if they have a gazebo in the way of some upper windows, as this would effect the price, in other words, if I can't get to some windows, I would reduce the price etc, or clean them from inside (that's possible here as the windows all open inwards). If they say yes, ok, then I wouldn't say, by the way, if I find dog poo all over the patio, or nappies lying in the garden, or cig butts all over the place, then you will be dumped.
If I find your back gate locked and you expect me to climb over to get to the back windows, I will charge you full price untill you learn to take window cleaning as the most important thing in your life even though I only clean the fronts. If any of this applies to anyone, then good luck boys. You are on the way to becoming the new Alan Sugar.
If one custy is happy with a WC, he will tell ten others. If one custy is NOT happy with his WC, he will tell thirty. Spouting off on here like some do is OK, what we do in the real world is what makes the difference.
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PMSL Slump, just read that after I posted. Classic.
By the way, Dai has a point.
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To Slump Buster this is a classic called" kick the dog sindrome."They allways kick the lowest on the food chain (in there minds)If ther is no one low enough the dog gets it.That my friend is what this is all about and we think we must take it and due to our attertude and lak of self assteem we take it.Thsi is not for anyone ,but for us as a industry.Together we can winn.
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I vow the new customers I gain in Essex will be told that I clean in the rain and snow.
that if the side gate is locked, the first time I will charge them half the job, the second time I will charge them the full price of the job.
minimum amount for a job will be a tenner.
Like some on here I have been too soft in the past, now its time to grow a back bone.
I have sign written van (soon to be vans) lol
I have uniforms as I take my job seriously (not saying people who dont have these dont take their jobs seriously) but first impressions last.
Matt
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Go Mate Go stand firm man.It pays and be proud of what we are.
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that if the side gate is locked, the first time I will charge them half the job, the second time I will charge them the full price of the job.
minimum amount for a job will be a tenner.
Like some on here I have been too soft in the past, now its time to grow a back bone.
Matt
I find this quite interesting, esp since the growing of backbone is in the same paragraph. Are you saying you are so regular and call on exactly the same day each month that the customer knows exactly when you will call. Or do you phone them up the day before to let them know.
Assuming that the customer only opens the gate for your visit, I would expect one or the other. If you are a day late do you let them know or do you expect them to leave the gate open untill you do turn up?
I'm not suggesting any of this is bad practice, but it has to work both ways, their reliability has to be matched by your own reliability.
Growing backbone is all well and good, but we must remember that we are in a service industry, therefore we service them.
When we have grown to the point that we have enough customers we can get to think that our customers are only there for our benefit only. I agree that it is important to reduce any awkward buildings or customers. But surely good business practice would include being as reliable as we expect them to be re. open gates etc.
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I think you taking it far to personnel, it just an agreement to clean the customers windows for a price. Apart from the everyday issues that all types of business would have, most people/customers are fine.
I’m sure most have or eventually will come across the minority rude or very awkward customer, get rid of them and move on. Keep in mind if you have 100 customers and you drop 1 customer a month it will take you over 8 years before all those customers are gone, more than likely in that 8 years you will probably replace the 100 customers without trying very hard or spend a lot on advertising.
If any window cleaner has this amount of bad, chances are any issues are with the window cleaner and not the customers.
Why would that figure as quoted above be the complete issue of the window cleaner? personally I find between 8-12% turnover reasonable p/a.
Dave.
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that if the side gate is locked, the first time I will charge them half the job, the second time I will charge them the full price of the job.
minimum amount for a job will be a tenner.
Like some on here I have been too soft in the past, now its time to grow a back bone.
Matt
I find this quite interesting, esp since the growing of backbone is in the same paragraph. Are you saying you are so regular and call on exactly the same day each month that the customer knows exactly when you will call. Or do you phone them up the day before to let them know.
Assuming that the customer only opens the gate for your visit, I would expect one or the other. If you are a day late do you let them know or do you expect them to leave the gate open untill you do turn up?
I'm not suggesting any of this is bad practice, but it has to work both ways, their reliability has to be matched by your own reliability.
Growing backbone is all well and good, but we must remember that we are in a service industry, therefore we service them.
When we have grown to the point that we have enough customers we can get to think that our customers are only there for our benefit only. I agree that it is important to reduce any awkward buildings or customers. But surely good business practice would include being as reliable as we expect them to be re. open gates etc.
I ring the customers who have a locked gate the night before the clean.
I have had it in the past that I ring up the night before to tell them to keep the gate unlocked, the following day I find it locked when I turn up.
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wizard I think if you adopted the policy of trying to educate them on what you will put up with, you may find you are working with a round full of the bottom of the barrel jobs.
I personally feel if it gets to the point where you are ready to walk them they have had there chance. If I have a certain problems with a customer, they are told and given a chance to correct it, however if some occasions e.g. if they turn me away at the door, I just wont come back.
Is this bad practice, well I think it might be taken as poor customer service by them when I don't return, however they would only be getting the same consideration in that they have shown me.
I do feel it would be better to not clean Joe Bloggs for £8 who is never in. Then spend that spare time canvassing for a closer or bigger job and even if you replace the job with the same size or make the same money from it then at least they maybe less hassle than wee Joe.
I don't think this approach of trying to convince people to treat you better instead of dropping them will go that well. Yes they will be polite and agree to be in, or pay on time etc. etc., but the next month they are more likely to just ignore there promise.
I also think this could result in an argument with a member of the public, in some cases its peoples attitude, like swearing etc. that leads to me dropping them and I dont think in these situations, reasoning with them is a good I idea, also at that point there is no way I would go back and work for them.
It is a simple job, and in 99% of cases customers are fine with no problems. However if you say to someone I will be by on Tue at 10am, we prefer you to be in to pay us however if that not possible you can sent a cheque. You go by they are not in, you leave note asking them to sent a cheque they don't. Then the next month they are not in.
You wont saving yourself from losing a good customer by trying educate them, you are not being a scare'dy cat for not approaching them and waving your finger...
You are being a smart business man, because you know that they are and will cost you money and time in the future and you know that if you tolerate it, you will end up with a round of time wasters. You know if you just weed them out and go and get another customer for that slot you will end up happier and will have a round that make you more money in less time and you can spend that time you have left on the more important things in life, instead of chasing after and spoon feeding people who just don't care.
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The reason most of us are too soft is because we are desperate for work. Any problems posted on this site are met with the same answer - DUMP THEM!
It's not untill you get more work than you can handle that you get into a position of dumping without any worries.
All the time you are building work a rejection is devastating.
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I've only ever dropped a couple.What i have found is that i lose 25% of customers i take on.
I'll say that again 25%.
It may be that they only wanted a one off in the first place, but often after the first clean has brought the windows up they feel subsequent cleans don't offer the same value.I had one just recently who hasn't dumped me yet, on the second clean they complained of marks. I was a bit annoyed about this because these windows were minging and had been so for years untill my first clean.
I went back and the marks were long standing varnish from an above wooden balcony.My point being that minging was okay for years, but once i'd cleaned them the slightest blemish became an issue, my fault or not.
So you can call me a rubbish window cleaner if you like, but i think this 25% figure probably applies to nearly all of us.
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Slumpy that's a huge rejection rate. Are you doing something wrong? May we ask what reasons they give?
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there are ways to cut that down Clive, but 25% is not far wrong.
getting a clean contract is one way and it does work to cut out the one off cleans being done at a regular customer price.
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Slumpbuster...do you feel that some of the customers are looking to take you for a mug..now please do not take me wrong I am not trying to cause offence.
How long have you been building your round?
Cheers
Dave.
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I lose 90% of my custards but thats over a 10 year period.
What length of time do you measure your 25% loss over Clive?
It is high, too high IMO, I would feel that things wernt working well if I lost 10 % within a year (The only reason I say the figure of a year is that ANYTHING can happen in that length of time, move house, become redundant, mother-in-law moves in and brings her shiner with her, undercut and possibly get sacked by custard but NOT if doing a good job)
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Slumpbuster sounds like you need to make sure you and the customer are clear on the service you are providing; one in every four is far too high.
Ewan that would depend on how many you are getting in.
thats from canvassed work thought I better add that some change mind, other one off clean, others bad payers, others nightmare to workfor ect etc, I think slumpy is being brutaly honest and fair play to him.
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Slumpbuster could you be a little more specific about the losses...
I have found that keeping records helps...who I dump, who dumps me, those who move in each area etc, etc...these figures help in trying to find patterns..have you really looked into your figures?
Cheers
Dave.
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is there a way of bringing up percentage lost on george?
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I do not think you can...but it could be to do with how you 'work' your customers within it..obviously live customer are 'live' but do you suspend them when they are dumped or run them as completed?
For me I have found that using a spreadsheet to 'drill' certain information is the only way...being a bit anal about these things I like to see how I am working and how certain actions affect other items such as costs, hours worked etc, etc...
Personally George & WCP could do with farmore thought in the reporting and information handling area's.
Cheers
Dave.
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I'm sure it was slumpbuster that posted a video of him cleaning someones house once, he was literally running around like a blue arsed fly cleaning the windows.
Maybe the customers like value for money and charging £25 or whatever for 15 mins work gets up their noses a little, however good the standard of work is.
This isn't having a go at slumpbuster it's just what some customers think, especially these "credit crunch days".
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I'm sure it was slumpbuster that posted a video of him cleaning someones house once, he was literally running around like a blue arsed fly cleaning the windows.
Maybe the customers like value for money and charging £25 or whatever for 15 mins work gets up their noses a little, however good the standard of work is.
This isn't having a go at slumpbuster it's just what some customers think, especially these "credit crunch days".
customers that stop watch you are really not the customers you want in a great amount, the ones that are happy with the job and pay are the ones you really want ;D have toi say £25 every 15mins is good going, i'm sat here listening ;D
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That was groundhog, and i thought he was okay. Actually ,watching the ionics vid of the glider, he works pretty much as i do so i'm in good company.
But does any of it matter?
We all have different ways of working, and we all think our way is better.I accept that i will lose some customers, and i work on the premise that i will lose one in four over time.But don't feel sorry for me, my business is off planet.
The reason i stopped offering advice is that no one ever listens to me >:(
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That was groundhog, and i thought he was okay. Actually ,watching the ionics vid of the glider, he works pretty much as i do so i'm in good company.
But does any of it matter?
We all have different ways of working, and we all think our way is better.I accept that i will lose some customers, and i work on the premise that i will lose one in four over time.But don't feel sorry for me, my business is off planet.
The reason i stopped offering advice is that no one ever listens to me >:(
some listen and some say nothing, talking back does not mean people are not listening
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That was groundhog, and i thought he was okay. Actually ,watching the ionics vid of the glider, he works pretty much as i do so i'm in good company.
But does any of it matter?
We all have different ways of working, and we all think our way is better.I accept that i will lose some customers, and i work on the premise that i will lose one in four over time.But don't feel sorry for me, my business is off planet.
The reason i stopped offering advice is that no one ever listens to me >:(
Beg your pardon ;D
No it doesn't matter.... except to the customers.
I'm not criticising, just giving an opinion as to customers viewpoint, although god knows what they are sometimes ::)
If you can live with keep replenishing work at that rate good for you, I'd hate all the 1st cleans ;D