Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gr cleaning solutions on September 25, 2009, 07:50:36 pm
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been asked to clean to rooms they are both foam backed carpets. is there any thing i should be looking for when cleaning , she wants them just shampooing
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That's a bit like a doctor going on a forum asking how to treat a common cold.
If you don't know how to clean a foam backed carpet, should you really be offering your services as a professional carpet cleaner?
I think not.
Do a training course. >:(
Simon
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im sorry but still only learning this trade Ive clean other carpets just not a foam backed carpet ,im looking to get on to a few course but Ive im very busy at the moment.And i have found this forum very useful for advice always helpful so thank for any advice with this. (didn't we all have to start somewhere)
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im sorry but still only learning this trade .......... (didn't we all have to start somewhere)
Sorry, most of us started with the training!
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GR,
Most of us start on a training course!!!!!
Don't you think that your customers deserve someone to turn up to clean their carpet with at least some idea of how to do the job?
Do you think a plumber goes on a forum to ask how to plumb in a washer, and if he were coming to your home wouldn't you expect the guy to know that long before he ever advertised himself as a supposedly competent tradesman.
Sorry to be so forthright with you, but carpet cleaning is jammed with people like you, posing as carpet cleaners but knowing nothing about the job and thereby give us all a bad name because if you don't know even the basic how on earth can you be doing the job properly?
If you're serious about this business then find the time to go on a course and learn how to do it properly.
Simon
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Simon
I agree with your sentiments and I think there are less harsh ways of putting the message across.
I know quite a few cleaners who started by doing friends and relatives carpets and when they went on a course the prior experience greatly enhanced the value of the course because it wasn't all theory.
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Mike,
So it's ok for people to go out cleaning carpets without even troubling themselves to learn the basics. The only type of person who should be asking such a basic question is a member of the public intent on doing their own.
Most of us did the training first and THEN went out and did friends and relatives carpets to gain some practical experience before going public.
The last thing this industry need is yet another know nothing amateur posing as professional, screwing up people's carpets and thereby giving us ALL a bad name and if it's harsh to say so then that's just tough, I tell it like it is.
Simon
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GR, certainly a course would be a good move asap. Some are with suppliers and others are independant.
There's lots of info on here obviously that you can find the answers to most things.
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sorry i did not mean to up set anyone that the last thing , you guys have been very helpful on other things Ive ask for .Yes i know the basics i am in the middle off sorting out a number off course but i am waiting to see as i may be getting some funding towards these once again sorry if i have offended any one
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wish I could have got funding but had to pay my own way !from the very little money I had when I started.
I carnt get over the way you are running your business ! where I live I am surrounded by untrained cowboys ,splash and dash merchants and it is very damaging to my business , this gives us all a bad name andyou must be damaging your reputation to no end,you could be waiting for funding for ages even if you get it at all ,i think you should get your hand in your pocket and pay for some training from the proceeds of your CARPET CLEANING >:( >:( >:( >:( OR SHOULD i SAY ,ATTEMPTED CARPET CLEANING.
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gr,
When I first started I had no training.
To be honest it was a little daunting all of the different fibres, constuction, chemicals blah blah blah, however a few weeks with an experienced c/c a feel for the job and your confidence grows, then as already mentioned a course is benificial, imo going straight onto a course can make the task in hand even more daunting " that is just my opinion before people jump down my throat" my reasons for these thoughts! well the majority i was on my first course with , you would think had never seen a carpet never mind cleaned one.
Lets be honest here, a course is a must but it not everything and the problem been you pass your exams " dont know any one yet whose failed " and hey presto you can clean carpets, not so, experience is what matters and help from other c/c when a problem arises. I was still asking questions every other week in my first year when i wasnt sure, but I got through the work , many thanks to M Halliday and now its rare for me to be stumped :-\ ;).
I do think a couple of replys have been harsh, i believe you have done the right thing in asking after all a splash and dash wouldnt bother asking , Would they ? it shows you are concered and you dont want to make a hash, good on you, get out with a c/c ,get on a course when your ready, and keep asking the questions when your in doubt, no matter how stupid it may seem to the more experienced.
Good luck.
geoff
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So basically if you havent had any training your not allowed to ask questions on here pretty sh-t if you ask me when i started i had to wait about 6 months before i took my Prochen training course everybody has to start somewere and trying to compare it to a doctor and medical advice is just daft.
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So basically if you havent had any training your not allowed to ask questions on here pretty sh-t if you ask me when i started i had to wait about 6 month before i took my Prochen training course everybody has to start somewere and trying to compare it to a doctor and medical advice is just daft.
course your allowed to ask questions, its cleaning carpets that worries the majority.
i'd be pretty p1zzed off if i found out i'd booked someone to do a job then saw a message on a forum from the said pro asking how he's supposed to do it.
i started my business april 2008, i did the prochem 2 day in january 2008. theres no way i would have the cheek to consider myself competant with someone elses extremely valuable possessions without at least knowing the basics.
we all started somewhere, but that somewhere should either be with a training org or out with a pro for a few days. otherwise its just irrisponsible.
can't believe anyone would encourage someone to book jobs in first and get training later.
derek
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I'm with Geoff on this one, a good and fair post. On one course I did with Extracta, there was someone on it that had just done the IICRC course first and he was thinking about not actually starting up after all, because (In his words) he felt scare mongered! Maybe that's a good thing in a lot of ways and maybe that's what the IICRC's aims and objectives are...(Rightly so!) But you can't beat a good bit of job experience so you can actually understand what the tutor's talking about....
Chicken and egg question comes to mind though ;D
Training is vital, and as some of the best carpet cleaners on here do, you should fit in refresher courses to stay ahead of the game and keep ahead with new methods, chemicals and materials.
I personally did nearly 2 years as a carpet cleaner's employee, my boss took me under his wing and didn't get me trained in any way other than on the job training. He was worried I learnt too much about the actual running of a business and he had every reason to be ::) The actual work experience helped me understand exactly what was being taught, a lot of my fellow students looked as if they had attended the wrong course ;D!
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Derek i learned far more in the 6 months i did myself than i did on a 1 day training course my local prochem dealer spent a couple of hours with me showing me how to use the machines and what chemicals to use carpet cleaning isnt hard its comon sense its not like learning a skilled trade for 4 years.Another thing you can join the NCCA and be a member and never cleaned a carpet in your life if i had the choice i would take the guy with the 6 months experience than somebody who has never picked up a wand in his life.
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the guy with 6 months experience has all ready made the mistakes on someone elses carpet
and the guy with 6 months experience would not be asking a question like how do i clean a foam backed carpet.
so that not a fair representation.
okay darren i'll give you a choice
you own a belgium wilton carpet. you want it cleaning.
option 1) someone who has done a course but never cleaned a carpet!
option 2) someone who has never done a course and cleaned a few carpets!
i know carpet cleaning is easy, people say i'm a newbie and to be honest i just laugh my cck off at em. cleaning carpets is a piece of p1ss but without basic knowledge of the dangers, and i'll admit theres not to many. without that knowledge you can cause serious damage and disruption to someones life.
it costs £200 to clean safely. my advice to anyone starting up is, do the course first, then clean someones carpets. i'm sticking to my earlier statement, that its irrisponsible to walk into someones house and clean a carpet you cannot identify, its only a matter of time before you come across one that needs a different approach. and if you don't know that approach, you've just p1ssed someone off and its your fault. not theres, for failing to tell you its a wilton. or sisal. your fault. and you should replace that carpet, which will cost a damn sight more than £200.
derek
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so some of you are patting this carpet cleaner on the back for having no training no idea and using this forum for help when stuck, from professional carpet cleaners because he wont pay for the training we did.dont get me wrong help and advice is what this site is about but when someone who cleans carpets and has to ask how to clean the most basic of tasks,I find it hard to swallow.many of you didnt have the training first BUT were working with professional carpet cleaners.
I live in a town where splash and dash merchants are a menace on the other hand I get to clean up after them which is more work for me.
I am sorry if I have upset the lads who think that the gent who put this post up is not a splash and dash merchant but this man goes into customers homes with no idea and takes payment. and gives us a bad name
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Derek in a ideal world we should all be trained before we clean carpets it all depends in the circumstances i had to wait 6 months because my girlfriend had post natal depression the guy said hes going to get some kind of training in the meantime a little helpfull advice from the experts on here wouldnt go a miss.
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ady what do you suggest string the guy up by the nearest lampost.
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When I first started I had no training.
Good luck.
Ditto. One week of following another carpet cleaner around whilst reading a carpet cleaning manual was all the training I received before being sent out all over the place on my own. I wasn't aware there was any other way of learning.
9 years on and still no insurance claims to mention, granted probably more by luck than judgement in the early days.
Still no official courses to my name and having cleaned up after enough c-ock ups by supposed NCCA members I don't see why I need to either.
GR- You could read manuals or you'll probably find all the answers on this or other forums.
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Guys
This is where I get contraversial.
The training in this country is toilet. If you think that the courses you have done make you competent think again. What you learn on the job is far more important but training and experience should work hand in hand. Just like NVQ's do in the current day setting. I'm not saying you should'nt do a course (because of course you should) but will you all get off your high horses and just help the guy out given the fact that we are all being so high and mighty about the industry's best interests and he has taken the trouble to ask (probably knowing he will come across as naive) and in doing so is protecting our so revered statuses as we see them ::)
Gr. Give me a call
Pete 07816 276290
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Oh, and before I forget, have any of you done the BICs training course?
If not please don't ever pick up a cloth because yoou are not qualified
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the training in this country for a newbie is excellent.
and once youve done one you are competent.
i'm sorry but cleaning a carpet is a piece of p1ss, any soft ass can do it, you don't need training to clean a carpet.
you need training so you can spot hidden dangers like shrinkage and colour run. this you can not learn on the job till it happens and by then its to late.
i can just imagine you guys employing someone and saying, "don't worry about training, its crap and under rated, just go out and make your own mistakes, thats how i learnt."
derek
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Just out of interest does anyone know how to clean a foam backed carpet?
I haven't seen one for a while, I think they stopped making them because the foam created a poison gas when it burned. But I just treated them as a normal cheap carpet, the backing sometimes became all crumbly when it was old but no real problem
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firstly i did not mean to get this into a slang match over training ,i was just asking a question off something i was unsure about , secondly i do not run a slap and dash business i pride myself on all my work that i do and customers have always been very happy with my work. Im awaiting to hear back this week or next week regarding some funding so if that goes to plan i will be booking my self a course with clean smart
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of course it is worth doing a course if only for the little things that might stick in your mind, like being told to watch out for bitumin backed tiles that you sholdn't use a solvent on, colours that might run, carpets that might shrink etc etc. i did the courses before i even had any gear to clean with but i was still as nervous as hell on those first few jobs, i just cannot imagine how anyone could go in 'cold' to clean someones carpet or 3-piece with the thought that they don't have a clue what they are doing.
would you trust someone to repair your car or van who had never picked up a spanner in his life before, not me, i'm sure gr is a top guy but this industry is full of people who 'play' at cleaning and it gives us all a bad name, how many people do you think are out there who had a bad experience with a carpet cleaner and now won't use one for any money?
colin
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just a thought but hasn't Rug Doctor built a multi-million pound business on the basis of untrained people cleaning their own carpets?
good job they didn't read this forum first they would have really missed out ;)
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How can you compare cleaning carpets to fixing vans mechanics do a 4 year apprenticeships carpet cleaners do 1 day training courses.
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Well you can't compare really, can you?
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it's not the point of what the industry is, it's a case of going in there gun-ho and saying you are a competant cleaner and you haven't done a days cleaning in your life, what if the first job you take on is a suede 3-piece worth a few thousand pounds and there you are with your bucket of suds to clean it, get the point? if you think it is ok to call yourself a carpet cleaner without a days training of any sort then you are bonkers.
colin
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darren hangings too good for em :) :)
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Yep Even More Character assaination
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Hi Guys
Foam back carpets are straightforward to clean and are unlikely to shrink.
As for training Pete, is right that there is little ongoing training within the industry and relatively experienced CC's quickly reach a stage where they feel they know enough.
I would like to see more indepth technical training, where the nature of the carpets and their fibres, type of stains, chemistry of staining, chemistry of stain removal, etc are taught so that a CC builds up a better knowledge of what is happening.
This could be linked to higher grades within a CC organisation which reflects the increase in CC knowledge.
Experience is a great asset and for the newbie who doesn't have it, then training and the forums are the best way of building knowledge more quickly.
GR has shown courage and good sense to ask and I would not like to think that others are reading this and thinking , I better not post a question in case I get some stick.
CIU has always been a forum where we have lots of newer CC's and all questions, well almost all ;), will be happily accepted.
It is of course advisable to atend a training course before starting, but in the real world this doesn't often happen and on the job training with an experienced CC is invaluable to any newish CC.
Cheers
Doug
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mr meldrew
since when did i say i don't believe in training?
are you actually reading any of my posts or do you think you know me that well, you are just wrongly guessing what i'm writing?
pay attention fella
derek
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I have been trading only since June this year but i did my NCCA stuff last November plus seperate Spots and stain courses and practical training with a few of you guys which was all helpful i was too scared to just go into someones home and clean there carpets without knowing the basics plus as a one man band like most on here, your reputation is vital to your sucess even now i still get butterflies going to a new job as my knowledge is limited but i follow what i have learnt on the forums and training, and do a thorough job and i get good results surely its common sense to do it the right way and a lot less grief, you could be an accident waiting to happen otherwise !
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thank for all your comments believe me all have been taken on board and all very good points . Peter i will be ringing you this week if that's OK with you and Derek i have read a lots of your post over the last few months and they make very good reading . But i would like to say that this forum is great its been very helpful from getting start to where i am now and hopefully help to make my business grow in the future. Has anybody on here been on a cleansmart course ? i hope i have not p**sed or offended body on here if so sorry
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Attended the Cleansmart course ( Derek Bolton) Very informative ,Highly recommended
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I agree training is essential and would bennefit my self from a couple of courses i am still very much a newbie. How i got started was a local cc needed someone for the run up to xmas, he took me with him for a few days then it was a case of theres your diary off u go. I have now recently set up my self and found this forum a great help, i did however find it was my confidence that was lacking and i think GR may be the same.
He has said he has cleaned a few carpets so prob has the same knowledge as a manufacturers course when you buy a machine. He also says he has these carpets booked in so will prob clean regardless, and i feel was only looking for some reasurance and any potential pitfalls.
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Pete,
Training in this country is the toilet??? What a load of rubbish and how would you know, you've only been in this business for two minutes yourself!
For what it's worth the Prochem Training Course are first class and are probably the industry standard but I would recommend attending as many courses as you can because you pick up different ideas and techniques from different people..
Training teaches you 'the basics' and as long as you know and stick to the basic procedures of carpet cleaning you won't go far wrong. With a solid understanding of the basics you can then go on and build up practical experience which you can only gain on the job.
Simon
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Simon
I won't be drawn into attacking your character nor will I comment on your abilities technical or otherwise as this is just unnecessary forum behaviour.
What I will say (having read the notes from most of the courses run) is that ironically, Prochems is in fact one of the poorest for technical content in my opinion. As Doug states, there is little follow up on this type of training in the UK (apart from the lucrative business of stain removal courses). We are so far behind the U.S. in this way that we are a bit of a laughing stock over there.
I am happy to debate this in more detail with you Simon but if you are offensive then I will simply ignore you.
Pete
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Pete,
There's nothing personal about it. We just see things from a different angle. Where I think you begin to look at little foolish (but only in my opinion) is where you start making sweeping judgements about training courses in this country and then go on to claim that we are a laughing stock in the states for our poor training, what a load of baloney. To make such a sweeping statement I'm assuming that you have personally attended all of the available course in this country and are therefore speaking from experience. Or are you just calling them all black in order to create a business opportunity for yourself, which in my view is pretty much what you're about.
Simon
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Hi Guys
Personal attacks aside, there is no doubt that the current lack of structure to CC courses has left a gap/vacuum to be filled by a forward looking organisation.
At present a lot of courses are supplier led and this leads to some fairly dubious claims and drives a lot away from seeking a more technical approach.
From many of the comments I have received in the past few years I believe there is a genuine thirst for more knowledge, but it will require a lot of hard work to produce really useful courses.
One of the troubles with CC, is that many are so busy working they just do not have the time to spend in either constructing or attending courses.
I have thought for some time an organisation where membership grade is enhanced by course credits, could result in a much more professional image for the CC industry.
What do you guys think ?
Cheers
Doug
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if those grades were recognised by the customer then yes, but if we have to explain to the customer how good our grade is then we might aswell make one up and save the money.
the ncca is a grade, seems pointless going for a grade 1 or gold ncca badge if we allready struggle getting the custy to recognise ncca in the first place. can you see my point, or is it just the way my trousers ruck up ;D
derek
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Doug,
As I suspected, this is a sales pitch! It's not that I'm against people coming up with new things, what I don't like is people taking a cheap shot at some very well respected individuals and companies that have helped train literally generations of highly successful carpet cleaners, merely to carve themselves what they hope will be a niche to create interest in whatever they have to offer, which to me is just plain old cheap.
Some of the best trainers in the world, either reside on these shores or have visited these shores to spread their knowledge and yet someone with a couple of blinks worth of experience dares to call their efforts over decades 'a Toilet,' which is in my view shameful and deeply disrespectful. If you want to start a new course, fine, do it. but why not just say, 'Look, guys' here's something new that you might want to try' instead of badmouthing courses you probably have never been on.
It's all very well setting up training courses, but don't you need professional trainers to conduct them and not people who merely aspire to make a quick buck from something they know nothing about (training, I mean).
Carpet cleaning is not rocket science, it is the application of some fairly straightforward basic principles and techniques that haven't and probably won't change - ever.
There is no such thing as the definitive training course, a one size fits all course and I would recommend to anyone that they attend as many courses as they possibly can. Some, like the NCCA course I attended will be awful, but you still come away from even them having learned something, or having reinforced something basic that you may have forgotten. Doing many course, or a variety of courses is the key and it is not just the courses where you learn, you also learn from the people on the courses and pick up snippets of information that help you in some way or other.
You may well come up with a course that is different to others, that covers different things in different ways, but I doubt you will come up with one better than a variety of courses, taken over a period of time.
Simon
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prochem 2 day, excellent
ncca 2 day, excellent
ncca advanced spot and stain, excellent
cleansmart upholstery 1 day, excellent
iicrc leather, excellent
ltt 4 day, excellent
haven't got a bad word to say about the training in britain.
can't see how anyone can say there rubbish, cos there not, simples.
i'm now looking for an odour removal course so i can be more exact with the custy rather than saying i'll give it ago.
derek
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I think 'The Prince' should be compulsory reading for anyone who joins this forum. To think it was just about carpet cleaning. ::)
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Well said, Derek. And well done for showing that level of commitment.
Variety is the key. No one course can teach you all you need to know, simples!
By-the-way, if anyone wonders why I am fuming at the suggestion that CC training in this country is 'a toilet,' is because I and many hundreds, perhaps even thousands of now very successful people were trained by the father of modern carpet cleaning in this country, Mr Ron Tilley, the former Managing Director of Prochem and before that the Managing Director of Servicemaster UK, someone without whom we may not have a carpet cleaning business to speak about today were it not for his efforts spread over many decades in this industry. Don't you dare sully his name, or his efforts simply to make a cheap buck, when all you know about carpet cleaning can be easily written on the back of a stamp.
Simon
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Hi Guys
Personal attacks aside, there is no doubt that the current lack of structure to CC courses has left a gap/vacuum to be filled by a forward looking organisation.
At present a lot of courses are supplier led and this leads to some fairly dubious claims and drives a lot away from seeking a more technical approach.
From many of the comments I have received in the past few years I believe there is a genuine thirst for more knowledge, but it will require a lot of hard work to produce really useful courses.
One of the troubles with CC, is that many are so busy working they just do not have the time to spend in either constructing or attending courses.
I have thought for some time an organisation where membership grade is enhanced by course credits, could result in a much more professional image for the CC industry.
What do you guys think ?
Cheers
Doug
Doug, yes we are busy but course dates are known well in advance, we all find the time to do what we want to do. I also agree with Derek, any organisation which grades it's members must be recognised by the public as a standard. I hate to say it but just like Corgi. Any supplier would then have to provide training within a structure that could be judged and accredited with National recognition by an organising body. Whilst higher education might be in a mess an 'A' Level or a Degree/honours are recognised by everyone as attainment to a level than all can judge. Unless we reach that goal as an industry standard we may benefit personally with additional knowledge but my customers can only judge me by my reputation and quality of work, which leads to more recommendations. That's how we build a business. So we need an independent funded organisation that will provide a national qualification or grade to which it's members are answerable. In my time I have been a motor engineer and attained a City and Guilds qualification which some will still remember, I guess NVQ's are today's C&G's and it may be a place to start. Lets not forget this has been discussed before on various threads and the answer is still a long way off, but I agree there is a need, getting everyone to join and be a collective organisation is another matter entirely.
Simon
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I think I'd been in the trade for about 7 or 8 years before I did any kind of training course which was IICRC.
Shaun
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Simon,
I agree with that.
I think the problem here is that whatever Messrs Sweeney, Holloway and others have in mind for this new association they are putting together is that they are putting it together in secret and are not willing to discuss the format with anyone outside their inner circle. What will eventually emerge from all this cloak and dagger stuff is something WE, the carpet cleaning fraternity don't want, which is another association foisted upon us in a take it or leave it format, which is what we have at the moment, it's called the NCCA.
What I fear is that whatever lies hidden under the covers is something that has far more to do with the founders pockets than it has the collective good of the carpet cleaning industry.
If all were as it should be and genuine change was afoot then why the lack of discussion and consultation on the subject and without that input from the very people who will either make or break whatever scheme is put before us, what chance has it of succeeding. The primary reason for disaffection with the NCCA is it's at arms length dealings with its own members, but here we go again, or so it seems. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Simon
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Simon,
You certainly know a lot more about this new organisation than me !
This cynical attitude that everything has to be about money is depressing but reflects current society, but I remain positive that with greater knowledge, more widely available it will be possible to put together structured technical CC courses which will benefit all who take part.
I certainly wouldn't be put off by the knockers, well not until they've got something to knock anyway.
Cheers
Doug
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Simon haven't you tried to start your own association twice?one being Truckmounters and the other was on Cleantalk years ago??
Shaun
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Doug,
Pete took what I class as a cheap shot at EVERY training course and thereby every trainer in this country, in effect calling them ALL, 'a toilet.'
Don't you think it just a tad odd that the majority of the people who currently enjoy success in this industry went through those so called 'Toilets' to learn the basic skills that took them to where they are today?
If you guy's have a different format, or something new to offer, that's fine, tell us about it. But please don't belittle yourselves by casting aspersions on the talents of those you have yet to match, let alone surpass.
Simon
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Simon,
Why do you think the likes of Prochem offer training courses, do you think they care about peoples carpets / upholstery, they dont even care about there own aftersales / care
They provide the Training for one reason only. Its to sell Chemicals which is the main part of there business and which they probably make the most money on which is why we are all in business.
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Shaun,
When Glyhn and I first took over TruckMounters we did think through the idea of starting an association, indeed we did, The Truck Mounted Carpet Cleaners Association to which all TruckMounters members became members.
Derek started a thread about a new association not long ago and his ideas were not that far from ours at the time. Thinking the issues through we quickly concluded that without a lot of money and time we simply couldn't deliver sufficient benefits to our potential members in the short term to justify the membership fees. If you look back to that topic you will see my comments regarding that.
Any association, especially a new one has to be inclusive and it has to embody the aspirations of its members. Most potential members would be looking to get a return on their outlay in terms of business, either directly, or indirectly, in other words, 'what's in it for me.'
You simply cannot begin to deliver on those aspirations if you are not even prepared to discuss the would be format of any new association with the people who will become its life blood. Developing these things under the veil of secrecy and simply launching it when you're good an ready risks severely restricting its appeal and it is that I am against, not the idea, which I think is a good one.
Simon
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Paul,
If you say so, buddy.
Simon
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Major Clean up (Or Simon)
Take a chill pill :)
Your post regarding Ron Tilley reminded of that "Inspiritional" speech during the movie Independence day when the president gets up infront of his minnions and utters the immortal words "We will not go quietly into the night!!"
It made me want to get my wand out and slay a few Belgian Wiltons :D
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I've done a few courses and I don't recall any trainer advocating a contrary view to the fundamentals of fibre identification, carpet construction or the basic cleaning method. It's a platform from which to start. I'm sure the NCCA was founded on the highest ideals............ Sorry I was just going to go over old ground which is all rather pointless which is why we as an industry are so frustrated. Mrs Jones would not consider having some maverick fit her £3000 boiler, but Mrs Jones' carpets could be worth at least that and all she has is an advert, a website or a recommendation and I can only do so much in re-assurance that I am up to the job. As professionals we take ourselves seriously but do the general public. Another thread is discussing fast track and I realised that we might not be the first option the public think of. Normally it's the hire shop or something under the sink! Until we move on from last choice to first choice we have a problem and that is the challenge to any organisation hoping to represent our view and standards to our potential customers. Look at this About Corgi web page, http://www.trustcorgi.com/AboutCorgi/Pages/Home.aspx sorry to use this as an example but frankly that's what we need and by reading that I can see the problem we face. I'd like to be in a position when a customer calls to be embarrassed if asked if I am a member of 'The Guild Of Master Carpet Cleaners' (example) to say no I am not. the problem is as independent owners and thinkers we can be worlds apart but nothing can change the fundamentals I opened with. It seems dated now but people new to the business could do a lot worse than read this book http://www.cresta-books.co.uk/fundamentals.htm If we can agree the fundamentals we have a foundation for British carpet cleaners. FBCC even sounds posh!
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An association should put its customers first not its members. This simple ideology is where the NCCA have failed.
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Hi Guys
Simon G
Why don't you wait and see what is on offer before critiscising, you may find you like it.
It is rather silly at this stage to say too much as there is not much to say!
However there will be and planning is important, if any credibility is going to be achieved. I would encourage all to have a positive attitude and lets see where we can go.
Pete is quite a visionary in these things and with the greatest respect to Ron Tilley, he was almost certainly young and dynamic once.
Simon Arena, you are write about fundamentals, they should not be ignored but do change, afterall we thought time was linear and the earth was flat.
Cheers
doug
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Doug,
I'm not criticising. If you guy's have got something new and fresh, that's great, let's hear about it.
What I take issue at is Pete Sweeney claiming that training in this country is 'the toilet' when all he has done is look at the specs for the various courses and because he's planning his own courses decides that they are all 'the toilet' and because of that we are a laughing stock in the states. The truth of the matter is Pete Sweeney has never trained anyone. There isn't a single carpet cleaner out there that is using what he trained him to do, not one. So how the hell does that make him such an expert on the subject of training?
Carpet cleaning is about the practical application of a set of very basic principles, it's not rocket science.
Simon
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I agree doug, but wool still smells when you burn it and polyprop still floats if we can't agree on that we're stuffed ;D
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The problem here is that Doug is well into the finite science of carpet cleaning where the vast majority of us are not. Some years ago I did an advanced Accreditation course with Dr Eric Brown, who was the most eminent scientist in the field of carpet cleaning, the course was only open to people with a minimum of five years experience. I could tell you all about apparent soiling and real soiling and occlusion and macro-occlusion but knowing all that stuff doesn't make you a better carpet cleaner simply because carpet cleaning is about the application of some very basic principles and procedures. The best trainers are able to teach those basics in a simple and understandable format without clouding the issue with needless complexity.
Simon
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got to agree with gerrardo,ahem i mean mr gerrard, once you've been taught the basics, you don't need to know all that blox. unless you want to advance to fire and flood, hard floor etc... and there's quality training out there for that all ready i'm sure.
martin 606 has done a trauma course, sounded like he enjoyed that from his posts. ask him if it was toilet!
still struggling on a odour removal course though, run one of them and youve got your first customer. ;D
derek
hiiiii hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Simon.
I would no more talk about macro, micro, nano or any other type of occlusion ;D
When a chemist and technical manager i was known for my pratical approach and I am not likely to start trying to teach electron orbital theory, mainly because I can't remember it ;)
Cheers
Doug
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An association should put its customers first not its members. This simple ideology is where the NCCA have failed.
Erm, Pete,
I think you will find that an associations members are it's customers. And if that really is your stance then you will be starting the first trade association that doesn't put its members interests first, amazing!!!! ;D
As the Director of Communications of this new outfit, I think you need to learn to communicate a little more effectively, or at the very least get your facts right.
As for the NCCA. Love them or loathe them, and I'm no great fan of them, but they have been around since 1968 and so have represented carpet cleaners in this country for forty one years, I don't think even you can call a record like that, a failure.
Simon
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Simon
You are communicating sour grapes.
Just because you couldn't make it work doesn't mean someone else can't either. And that may have been down to timing. Maybe now is the time! :)
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Simon
You are communicating sour grapes.
Just because you couldn't make it work doesn't mean someone else can't either. And that may have been down to timing. Maybe now is the time! :)
unbelievable ::)
derek
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Mikes been reading Machiavelli so is well versed in the art of war :)
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Sorry Derek but I would have no confidence in an organisation set up by you, if that's what you are getting at. That's nothing to do with you as an individual, just an understanding of what a monumental task it would be and who, if anybody or group could pull it off.
Mark
That's Tsun soo ::) ;D
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mike
its not always the thorough bread that wins the race, maybe one day you'll have to / want to join T.A.C.C.A. and if i call the shots then guess what. i'd love to take your money from you, might even do you a discount so i can gloat ;D
derek
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Derek, I can do humble. :-[ ;D
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Mike Machiavelli wrote his own Art of war could have a study or translation of Tsun soo.
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Derek, I can do humble. :-[ ;D
should i buy the ingredients and start making the pie now? ;D
blueberry or meat and potato? ;D
derek
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been asked to clean to rooms they are both foam backed carpets. is there any thing i should be looking for when cleaning , she wants them just shampooing
Has anyone actually answered this guys question?
GR - email me and I will respond
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Mike,
Sour grapes??? I'll have you know that Glynn and I spent an awful lot of our time and no small amount of money developing Truck Mounters and even more time delving into the multitude of problems that arise when you think of putting together a new trade association, especially one where you are promising your members national contracts.
I have personally paid for the TMCCA website which will be launched soon and there will be no cost for the use of that site to TMCCA members. Glynn and I have both arranged and in part financed Sunny Day Out's in the past for the benefit of others and at no personal gain to ourselves.
So rather than stand there on the touch line and heckle the people with the balls to get up and do something, why don't you tell us what you've done for the carpet cleaning fraternity lately??????..... I thought so -zilch!
Simon
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You have done an awful lot Simon I'm sure.
I'm just saying it sounds like sour grapes and throwing your toys out because you haven't been invited to the party. As for me I just say it as I see it. :-\
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wasn't simon, ahem, mr gerrard invited to the party on my TACCA thread, i'm sure pete sweeney invited him in?
i'm guessing mikes the latest recruit, ;D
derek
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OK last try.
I'm saying it sounds like, appears as if, comes across as.....
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Derek
I have not signed up to their organisation. I just think if you like that sort of thing it has the best chance of succeeding and being fruitful for the members.
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Mike,
It could only be sour grapes on my part if I'd hoped to gain financially from running such an organisation and I can tell you know nothing could have been further from my mind either then or now.
If you knew me, and you clearly do not, then you would know that there is no one more passionate about this industry than me and I, along with others have striven to take things forward, not for personal gain, but for the benefit of all of us. Whether those efforts have been in vain or not is for others to judge, but I do my bit.
Simon
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mike
i understand where your coming from when it comes to me v them so to speak, but how can you say they stand a good chance when you've no idea what there doing, for all you know, it could be just for portables, or anyone one with a second hand truckmount can't join ;D or women only, meaning you can't join unless you use a glide ;D
or it could be £1000 joining fee ;)
the point is, awwww forget it, can't be assed.
derek
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Simon
I'm sure you have done a lot and continue to do great things for the industry that's not in dispute. It's more the way you are ranting and raving and getting incensed by something that others are doing in a different way to the way you would do things.
Why not just let them get on with it and see what happens?
Derek
I'm purely going off the people and the personalities of the people involved. To pay you a grand for an idea you had in the shower that morning is more risky in my book. ;D
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its not a grand, its £100. keep up lad. ;D
derek
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Thats to much then!!!
Very hot in here Mike 8)
G.
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Thats to much then!!!
Very hot in here Mike 8)
G.
depends how well your doing i suppose. ;)
derek
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Derek
Sorry I'm a bit slow. I was sure it was a grand at some point. ;D
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A £100...? Bargain! I'll have 10 please ;D
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Who says offers don't work. ;D
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yes thats right, this bank holiday weekend, 90% off to join tacca, pay nothing for a year and then interest free credit over 3 years. ;D
remember though, offer end bank holiday weekend, which bank holiday is any bodies guess but it does end. soon ish. ;D
derek
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Gerry Styles email sent thanks